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Author Topic: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal  (Read 1437404 times)

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #975 on: January 21, 2015, 08:11:30 PM »
Hi Clarence,

Here are some suggestions I have in helping you tune up your system.

(1) You say your circuit: "It works with batteries but doesn't work closed loop"
This is not correct because closed loop means: "contains suffient electrical storage
capacity to overide any loop instability". Your batteries provide this but you need
additional storage when the batteries are not present, so what you should
do is provide a supercapacitor always on the circuit between your inverter
and your 12VDC power supply. A 16Vdc supercapacitor would be available
at an automobile audio shop where they install high power 1KW audio amplifiers into
car audio systems. The supercapacitor has much more capacity then the electrolytics
in the powersupply but much less capacity then the batteries have.

(2) I would recommend a 120VAC Variac Variable autotransformer before your 12VDC power
supply so you can adjust the input voltage to the power supply up or down. This will allow
allow you to manually tune the system to optimal voltage levels and give yourself more
running margin.

Variac looks like  this, the red device in this farmhand picture from post #527:

http://overunity.com/13721/energy-from-the-ground-self-powered-generator-by-barbosa-and-leal/dlattach/attach/135206/

Farmhand's variac is 240VAC you may want a 120Vac Variac for your system.


(3) A second variac could be used as a power spliter where you divide the total systems
power between two different AC pathways. The second pathway might be used to power
a second 12VDC supply to run a grid intertie inverter. Variac transformers because of the
way they are wired do not provide galvanic isolation. But you could purchase a 1:1 120VAC
input 120VAC output turns ratio transformer of adquate Kvar rating to ground isolate the
second pathway so the grid intertie inverter would have it's own seperate ground system
in the intertie (shouldn't influence other parts of the circuit).

Thus, it would really be sweet to see extra power actually going out to the grid from your
ground tuned up system. You would manualy set the second Variac just high enough so that
the supercapacitor voltage isn't discharging.

---

In effect your system would be a rather rare example of a self running system ouputting
all extra power to the grid, sort of independent of where the energy comes from. Once
started by batteries they are switched off and don't contribute to system energy.

Good Luck!

:S:MarkSCoffman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Spokane1

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #976 on: January 21, 2015, 09:03:55 PM »
Dear Clarence,
If you think a 120VAC Varic would be benifical to you research I just happen to have an extra unit that I would be willing to donate to a good cause.
These devices are expensive even on eBay.
Send me an email at mmckay@simplexgrinnell.com with a shipping address and I can get it right out to you.
Spokane1

Offline Clarence

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #977 on: January 21, 2015, 09:54:11 PM »
Clarence:

Hello mscoffman,

I know what closed loop IS and what it isnt!
what I said was that the system would not work CLOSED LOOP because the Tripp Lite power supply
which was supposed to be getting FULL voltage to it to make it operate properly was not happening!!!
The lack of FULL voltage was due to the GROUND GRID RETURN not supplying its leg of full voltage as this system is supposed to do.
the rest of the information was meant to convey the the fact that I could operate the TRIPP Lite power supply separate from the system
by means of my mains household voltage and doing this then in conjunction with the -  battery array - inverter - toroids - as an
open ended system to be able to operate everything and test the system to see what was happening and or not happening!
when I get the Ground supply problem solved then I will go back to configuiring it as a closed loop again

I do know what a variac is and I have the same RED type unit and have been using it for years.

I also know Member Farmhand as I was and still am a member of the ENERGETIC FORUM for many years working on Don Smith devices.

I do appreciate your thoughts and considerations and I appreciate also the information on the source for the super capacitors!
I am going to continue with this B&L build exactly as it was stated and shown in the patent info and their demos if it doesnt stay close
to their device then I wont persue it farther.

@ Spokane1 ,
 thanks for the offer!

Clarence

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #977 on: January 21, 2015, 09:54:11 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Clarence

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #978 on: January 21, 2015, 10:02:38 PM »
Dear Clarence,
If you think a 120VAC Varic would be benifical to you research I just happen to have an extra unit that I would be willing to donate to a good cause.
These devices are expensive even on eBay.
Send me an email at mmckay@simplexgrinnell.com with a shipping address and I can get it right out to you.
Spokane1

Clarence:

Hello Spokane1,

Again I thank you for your generous offer sir!
I do already have the exact same type variac and have used it for years.

Blessings and Cheers,

Clarence

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #979 on: January 22, 2015, 05:00:52 PM »
Clarence,

The devices in the main loop of these systems always seem to be under a kind of stability stress they
don't experience when plugged into utility networks. Utility networks are very fast and very "stiff"
because of the way the are backed. DC to AC inverters are not so stiff. So devices used here need a
little more hold up time. But not necessarily 7Ah worth.

Ultimately the incandescent bulb will need to be removed from the circuit because it is wasting power
that should be made available to the user purposes. The variac can be helpful at doing so initially. Of course
all the variacs will be removed eventually and be replaced by fixed resources.

I was just hoping you don't let inherent circuit instability put you off when you come this far. The circuit
looks very interesting.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #979 on: January 22, 2015, 05:00:52 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Clarence

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  • Posts: 96
Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #980 on: January 22, 2015, 08:35:12 PM »
Clarence,

The devices in the main loop of these systems always seem to be under a kind of stability stress they
don't experience when plugged into utility networks. Utility networks are very fast and very "stiff"
because of the way the are backed. DC to AC inverters are not so stiff. So devices used here need a
little more hold up time. But not necessarily 7Ah worth.

Ultimately the incandescent bulb will need to be removed from the circuit because it is wasting power
that should be made available to the user purposes. The variac can be helpful at doing so initially. Of course
all the variacs will be removed eventually and be replaced by fixed resources.

I was just hoping you don't let inherent circuit instability put you off when you come this far. The circuit
looks very interesting.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Clarence:

Hello again,

you miss the point in the use of the 250 watt heat lamp! I simply use it as a test LOAD.
at times I use other bulbs such as a 4 watt nite light or a 13 watt CFL or a 24 watt CFL so the point about
wasting energy is mute. Everyone by now should have recognized that my ONLY purpose with constructing
this B&L device EXACTLY as CLOSE AS POSSIBLE to the way THEY DID IT is to use it as a PROOF OF CONCEPT.
If it doesnt work by their instructions and patent info then its a FARCE. I intend to go to whatever limits I need to
to prove whether the device works or not!

BTW: the next size bulb I intend to use is a 1000 watt Halogen bulb. I already have the materials and rack to plug
them in IF the results warrent going that far.
I am also aware of the instability of the performance of several of the components in the system and would work
on that latter- not now. and I definitely wont be using a VARIAC now or later.

at present I am in the process of increasing the size of my GROUND GRID as B&L call it. I'll see what that does and
it will determine my next steps.

Thanks and Cheers,

Clarence

Offline xhacks

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #981 on: January 23, 2015, 05:24:28 PM »
@Clarence Can you make some measurements (AC V&A in VS AC V&A); I tested your system, but the voltage on the battery is getting lower... Tested with a sine wave 300W inverter, and NO LOAD. Discovered something interesting about it: If you put a 20uF in parallel with the INPUT you can light the bulb between the two grounds(Neutral, ground) :)


P.S. I didn't use thickness of the cables, the windings of transformers, and just 2 grounds...Maybe this is the fault?....


Cheers,
Adrian

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #981 on: January 23, 2015, 05:24:28 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Clarence

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  • Posts: 96
Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #982 on: January 23, 2015, 07:56:41 PM »
@Clarence Can you make some measurements (AC V&A in VS AC V&A); I tested your system, but the voltage on the battery is getting lower... Tested with a sine wave 300W inverter, and NO LOAD. Discovered something interesting about it: If you put a 20uF in parallel with the INPUT you can light the bulb between the two grounds(Neutral, ground) :)


P.S. I didn't use thickness of the cables, the windings of transformers, and just 2 grounds...Maybe this is the fault?....


Cheers,
Adrian

Clarence:

Hello xhacks,

Glad to meet you. I can make measurements on my device for you sure - however
I didn't understand what you meant in your reference about taking voltage and amperage
measurements on YOUR unit.
on your unit you need to understand that the INVERTER unit itself IS A LOAD and that is why
your battery voltage gradually drops!

Also the part about the BATT - INVERTOR -  PHASE - CAPACITOR - NEUTRAL - BULB - GROUND (open loop) is
nothing new at ALL and the bulb is also a LOAD!!!  another reason why the battery voltage slowly falls!

If you REALLY want to use that little small inverter system ( Please note that statement is NOT in ANY way
meant to be derogatory!)  to A GREAT advantage you can get all of this information from an old DON SMITH
patent device if you will just go to your computer search engine and type in this wording : DON SMITH 2006 TESLA TECH .
after you pull it up (a you tube video from way back) scroll almost to the end and you will see him use a car battery which
he uses to power a hand held 28 WATT power zapper touched to a PLATE CAPACITOR that some one holds a GROUND WIRE
to which he states goes out side to large sized GROUND PLATE that was used for the seminar. He then explains
that the GROUND WIRE can be CUT and a LOAD placed between the two ends of the ground wire!!!
I also remember that He operated up to 2KW LOADS on this type of circuit. follows after Don's motto of KISS!
KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.

Use your inverter to power a similar low watt hand held high frequency zapper and then use a small amount of
the load area output to feed back and keep your battery charged and your home free.
BTW: there are a lot more of these little trinkets floating around in the cloud data system that the world doesn't know are out there.

thanks and CHEERS,

Clarence

Offline a.king21

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  • Posts: 1613
Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #983 on: January 24, 2015, 03:48:40 AM »
Clarence:

Hello xhacks,

Glad to meet you. I can make measurements on my device for you sure - however
I didn't understand what you meant in your reference about taking voltage and amperage
measurements on YOUR unit.
on your unit you need to understand that the INVERTER unit itself IS A LOAD and that is why
your battery voltage gradually drops!

Also the part about the BATT - INVERTOR -  PHASE - CAPACITOR - NEUTRAL - BULB - GROUND (open loop) is
nothing new at ALL and the bulb is also a LOAD!!!  another reason why the battery voltage slowly falls!

If you REALLY want to use that little small inverter system ( Please note that statement is NOT in ANY way
meant to be derogatory!)  to A GREAT advantage you can get all of this information from an old DON SMITH
patent device if you will just go to your computer search engine and type in this wording : DON SMITH 2006 TESLA TECH .
after you pull it up (a you tube video from way back) scroll almost to the end and you will see him use a car battery which
he uses to power a hand held 28 WATT power zapper touched to a PLATE CAPACITOR that some one holds a GROUND WIRE
to which he states goes out side to large sized GROUND PLATE that was used for the seminar. He then explains
that the GROUND WIRE can be CUT and a LOAD placed between the two ends of the ground wire!!!
I also remember that He operated up to 2KW LOADS on this type of circuit. follows after Don's motto of KISS!
KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.

Use your inverter to power a similar low watt hand held high frequency zapper and then use a small amount of
the load area output to feed back and keep your battery charged and your home free.
BTW: there are a lot more of these little trinkets floating around in the cloud data system that the world doesn't know are out there.

thanks and CHEERS,

Clarence


Clarence:  Do you mean like this?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #983 on: January 24, 2015, 03:48:40 AM »
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Offline Clarence

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #984 on: January 24, 2015, 11:44:10 AM »
Clarence:

Hello a.king21

The high voltage he is putting into his side of the capacitor plate is AC.
the voltage that is being picked up on the other side of the plate and that is going to ground is
pulsed DC. purposely for demonstration purposes he is using a car battery and it is powering a
DC to AC converter which was originally used to test Dielectric values of different wire insulation
and other things etc.It could be adjusted up and down to different voltage and amperage settings.
the settings he chose basically amounted to a total of 28 watts and was delivered by the hand held
probe that he used. all in all just a high voltage module as you illustrated. the ground wire that is used
went to an outside ground of whatever sort. you could drop the voltage and frequency by any of
several means to match your needs whether it be AC or DC.
energy that went in on the input side did not pass to the other side. The energy that was received
on the output plate was harvested from the ambient energy background and was delivered to ground.

the input energy was simply the excitation means.
He showed two different demos of the same load to ground  process, I gave you the search engine wording
for the demonstration in 2006 now here is a better and more informative demonstration of harvesting to ground
of a previous year - type in -   Don Smith 2005 Part 4 - youtube.
a lot more information and explanation with all the witnesses gathered around.

I prefer my B&L device For all the different ways you can configure circuits more easily and accomplish basically the some thing.

thanks and Cheers.

Clarence

Offline Void

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #985 on: January 24, 2015, 04:20:19 PM »
Clarence, a.king21:
I'll try to keep this fairly short, since this is drifting off topic.
I am not trying to put down Don Smith in any way, but I have tested a fair bit with some of the things Don Smith
has talked about or shown, and I have found in my tests that things do not end up working like Don Smith describes it.

Regarding his capacitor plates driven by a high voltage AC driver, the first thing most people will probably notice is that
capacitors are used all over the place in AC circuits and they of course most certainly do draw energy from the driving device.
Don's premise seems to be that since you are drawing an arc from the HV driver to Earth ground, and Earth ground is
isolated from the HV driver (in the 2006 demo he used a battery powered power source for the HV driver), that no energy is
being drawn from the HV driver when the second capacitor plate is arcing to Earth ground. However, in my tests where I monitor
the input current to my HV driver from a 12V battery, the input current to the HV driver increases from about 350mA at idle to
about 420mA to 450mA or more when arcing to either Earth ground or even just to a completely insulated screwdriver tip.
This shows that any arcing (even to the insulated screwdriver tip) is drawing its energy from the HV power source to
cause the arcing.

With Don Smith's stuff it seems that it comes down to Don Smith either leaving out key info which you would need to
make his stuff work, or he was just plain wrong about certain things. Maybe Don Smith's use of an aluminum plate and a
copper plate makes some sort of difference, as I just tested with a normal HV pulse capacitor. It is probably worth a test
to see if there is any difference at all however. Also, in my tests, the voltage waveform on the Earth ground side
of the setup is identical to the voltage on the HV driving side, i.e.; if you are using a sine wave in, then you will see
a sine wave on the output ground discharge side as well. That's what I saw in my own testing anyway. If there is a way to get that 
sort of setup to pull in extra energy from the ambient to power a load without drawing its energy from the HV power source,
I personally haven't figured it out (yet) anyway. I am still experimenting away... :) Anyone can experiment for them self to see
if they can get different results, but make sure you know what you are doing first when experimenting with high voltage.
Good luck with the experimenting.
All the best...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #985 on: January 24, 2015, 04:20:19 PM »
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Offline Clarence

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #986 on: January 24, 2015, 05:16:13 PM »
Clarence:

Hello Void, & All,

correct on all points Void - I know the experiences from past history personally also!

As I said I prefer my B&L device and am working to prove it as a proof of concept for my own personal interests
and am indeed willing to share the good points that I find and also point out some of my goof ups as well
 when I discover them.

It is good to share what I find as this device build is NOT CHEAP (about 1200.00 so far). sharing helps others
from having to put out those expenses when it might not be possible to do so but allows them to obtain
the advantage of the information anyway.  Lovin it!

I am building my ring type Earth Grid System that I mentioned earlier (16 ft ring type with 8 copper clad rods
in the perimeter for the return from earth ground connected in series and left open ended. 1 copper clad rod in the exact center
as the input rod to earth ground). all of the connecting wire will be #6 AWG tinned battery cable wire..

all of this takes time and effort (lots) and add to this my farm duties (which come first) the time to complete
is made even even longer.
so hang on everybody! I'll get there.

thanks and Cheers.

Clarence

Offline Void

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #987 on: January 24, 2015, 05:39:49 PM »
Hi Clarence. I have been following along on your B&L experiments. You are doing a great job mate!
Appreciate the schematic and photos you posted, as it allowed me to get a much clearer idea of what you are doing.
I am patiently waiting to see if you see any improvement once you add your improved ground rod grid. :)
All the best...


Offline Clarence

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #988 on: January 29, 2015, 08:39:02 PM »
Hi Clarence. I have been following along on your B&L experiments. You are doing a great job mate!
Appreciate the schematic and photos you posted, as it allowed me to get a much clearer idea of what you are doing.
I am patiently waiting to see if you see any improvement once you add your improved ground rod grid. :)
All the best...

Hello Void & ALL, 

Clarence:

Just an update on progress on Ground Grid System:
had laid out perimeter and rod marks and had to posthole spots down into earth 12 inches so that they could be
covered over after assembly. at my site I could NOT leave the rods exposed above ground at all and the wire has
to be trenched also so that nothing interferes above ground level. definitely work involved.

will have the last of the rods in the ground by tonight and will start wire trenching tomorrow.
saturday and sunday I should have all the wire in and connected  and the connections sealed and wires covered over.

will not be able to start any testing until sometime tuesday or thursday as I just lately observed that my
tripp lite power supply was FRIED!!
at sometime when I was last testing and as the ground system wasn't feeding enough voltage back through the ground
return system only giving enough system voltage in the amount of 84 to 90v---this under voltage caused my
tripplite PR 15 to overheat severely and I did not catch this fact until after the damage had already been done!!!
it is factory designed the run on 120 volt AC and not 84 volt AC!  MY GOOF UP!

I have a NEW Tripp Lite PR 30 that should arrive monday thru wednesday sometime.
for testing the system THIS TIME I will be powering the PR 30 with mains voltage until I can see if the Ground
Return Leg is performing as it should or if I still have to increase the size of my Ground Grid a bit more.

as with all things time will tell!

Thanks, Later.

Clarence


Offline Void

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Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal
« Reply #989 on: January 29, 2015, 09:58:52 PM »
Thanks for the update Clarence. Sorry to hear about your power supply. These sort of
experiments we do here can be very hard on electronics! I blown more than my share of components
and equipment over the years. :)  Your ground rod expansion sounds like a pretty big job. Hope you
can get a farmhand or two to help you. ;)
All the best...

 

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