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Author Topic: Magnetically Imbalanced Wheel  (Read 34691 times)

truesearch

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Re: Magnetically Imbalanced Wheel
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2013, 06:22:19 PM »
@Hope:


Ok, thanks to Farmhand's drawings (and your preliminary ones) it's alot more clear to me what you where describing.


In reviewing the conceptional drawing it "seems" like there might be a "sticky-point" at the 6:00 o-clock point where the north-pole flexible mounted magnetic is being forced into the north-pole field of the outside-statically positioned magnets. There are 2 opposing "forces" that would need to be overcome by the offset-gravity push: the North-to-North magnetic repulsion (which would cause the flexible rods to bend); and the flexible rod wanting to return to their "relaxed" state. I suppose the only way to REALLY tell will be if someone has the resources and ability to construct a prototype.


I like to idea and hope it works.  :)




Thanks for sharing your idea!


truesearch

Farmhand

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Re: Magnetically Imbalanced Wheel
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2013, 11:43:14 PM »
Hi Truesearch, The sticky point issue has been noted and at least one way to overcome it is mentioned. Did you notice the part of my post where I said the pendulum effect of the rods could help if the device is "Tuned". The same is true for the bottom as for the top. The same swing out/in effect is intended to occur at both the top and the bottom of the wheel. (at least for my attempt)

But I think the trick to it will be to get the rods to flex enough and make the magnets "swing out" past the neutral point when they leave the influence of the left side big magnet,
Then while still "out" the magnets enter the influence of the big right magnet without needing to be actually pushed out
, they would only need to be held out by the big magnet kind of thing, and the same at the bottom but from out to in.  :) kinda like each rod is a pendulum when it leaves one magnet it swings out or in then just gets held there by the other magnet, the off balance does the rest. Maybe need a push to start it. It would have a speed but could be adjustable to vary optimum speed maybe. Worth a shot I think. I think the idea has some merit.

Cheers

P.S. From memory a similar effect or device was discussed at Heretical Builders but certainly the one discussed there was not the same as this device. I can't say I have seen a device just like Hopes as yet. The only thing similar I can think of is the, "wave form making device" used for teaching, it has a single flexible rod "length-ways" with a lot of horizontal rods with a weight on each end, it works by if one rod is upset a wave motion is begun. The devices last a long time but are just for teaching the wave motion effects.

I'll post a link if I can find it.  :) If anyone else knows of the mechanical wave machine I am writing about and can find a picture or video please post a link.

I can't say if Hope already thought of the effect I mention and even if he didn't yet it would have come to him anyway, so just for the sake of saying, this is Hopes Wheel. I take no credit, I'm just interested.

It would need a push to start it I think so as to have some initial input kinetic energy to work with.

..

truesearch

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Re: Magnetically Imbalanced Wheel
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2013, 12:10:10 AM »
@Farmhand:


I appreciate and respect your input ~ sorry I had overlooked your observation posted earlier.


In considering the concept I was only looking at any possible (obvious) reason that it might not work. And without considering the potential benefits of the wave/pendulum effect for the flexible/magnets it seemed that there would be a sticky-point.


"Hope"fully this will develop into a working design.  :)


truesearch

Farmhand

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Re: Magnetically Imbalanced Wheel
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2013, 12:30:24 AM »
No Probs, Yes. Where there is Hope there is Will, and. Where there is a Will there is a Way.  ;)

Cheers

Hope

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Re: Magnetically Imbalanced Wheel
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2013, 09:41:02 AM »
This is the closest machine that displays the same idea, though he does use mechanical weight shifts to do the same imbalanced wheel routine.  Maybe someone else can find others to post.  Thank you both for your comments.


 Aldo Costa - clips of his Giant Perpetual Motion Wheel - YouTube


I have purchased items on the mainland today and will start a build in the evenings after work.  It will be crude, let's hope it is large enough to over come the frictions at play.  The small magnets were $5.99 X 4 packages and yields 40 magnets.   Not the highest quality magnets, but they should work for a working prototype.  Aldo Costa's wheel gives me an inner feeling that it has a good chance at working. 


Sterling Allen called tonight and I hope to not be a disappointment to his time.  He spends a lot of precious moments away from his loved ones and it is way past time that his efforts are given the fruits they deserve.


As far as I can tell the concern over a sticky point is actually not viable due to the amount of weight shifted on both sides of the disk.  The unflexed rods are neither a plus nor minus on the effect.  Anyways your comments are very constructive and welcome.  Thank you


I have contacted Professor Jones and hope his insights will add needed momentum to the topic.  After over 4 years watching and trying ideas on the forum I and others get a bit burnt out on being fresh to new ideas.  The whole prototype looks like it will cost under $45.00 USD.  Will post it for your interests.  I picked up a 16M pixel camera that will make the video.  I will have to get some light flat brass to act as the flex rods here on the island.  Seems funny to me that after all the complicated things we all have tried, this motor is so simple.   I will try to borrow a scale to match the finished flex rods with.

truesearch

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Re: Magnetically Imbalanced Wheel
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2013, 04:27:44 PM »
@Hope:


Please keep us posted with your experiments! As you can see, there are several of us following and watching your progress. I'd like to see photos of your setup and the info/data.


Unfortunately I'm not in a position to complete any experiments at this time  :(


truesearch

Hope

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Re: Magnetically Imbalanced Wheel
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2013, 06:23:33 PM »
I just was looking at your drawing Farmhand and noticed the magnets used to activate the imbalance marked A and B need some clarification.  The A base arc should extend from the 6:30 position to the 11:30 position.  The B base arc should be from the 12:30 position to the 5:30 position.  This is where the presumed stickiness was questioned by truesearch.  I see why you would think that now.  I left that area unengaged by the magnets so it would not be an issue. 

Hope

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Re: Magnetically Imbalanced Wheel
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2013, 09:59:10 PM »
This is the first drawing of the dial, it shows information concerning layout but no dimensions due to no working device being built as of now.  I have parts now at hand but still need acquire thin flexible flat brass stock to mount the magnets.  I have solid corian, a cutting board but I want to make the first dial lighter.  The magnets I have just are not strong enough to cause a large swing during repulsion. So I will keep the wheel weight down so over coming spin friction (torque) will be minimal.  I will be making more drawings tomorrow.


 
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 03:13:39 AM by Hope »

Hope

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Re: Magnetically Imbalanced Wheel
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2013, 02:43:20 PM »
More appointments in Seattle today.  At least it gives me exposure to gain the few items I still need for building.  Hope to find something light to serve as a center disk today.  I picked up a thick round box but it was a poor choice for holding the flexible rods.  I was able to find some flat brass small stock here in Bayview.  In a small way I am hesitant to finally build, it is my last idea and I have no others after so many times of trying. 


If this does not work I will have to start a new line of thought. 

LibreEnergia

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Re: Magnetically Imbalanced Wheel
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2013, 06:10:12 AM »
More appointments in Seattle today.  At least it gives me exposure to gain the few items I still need for building.  Hope to find something light to serve as a center disk today.  I picked up a thick round box but it was a poor choice for holding the flexible rods.  I was able to find some flat brass small stock here in Bayview.  In a small way I am hesitant to finally build, it is my last idea and I have no others after so many times of trying. 


If this does not work I will have to start a new line of thought.

What part of "magnetism is a conservative field" have you missed previously?   This (and any other attempt at building a working magnet motor) is doomed to fail due to this fact.

Hope

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Re: Magnetically Imbalanced Wheel
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2013, 07:46:37 AM »
Hooray,   finally the troll appears.  Thanks for confirming this work.   NONE of the principles applied in this project break the know laws of physics. 


Ok all have the most part of the materials to start building,  even a bearing.  I was hoping for a styrene disk to keep it light weight.  Anyone have a suggestion?




lumen

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Re: Magnetically Imbalanced Wheel
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2013, 05:04:54 PM »
 Removed!
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 02:07:56 AM by lumen »

Hope

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Re: Magnetically Imbalanced Wheel
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2013, 01:39:22 AM »
What is that video all about?  It sure could use audio,  I mean nice to see hand gestures but what about using verbal communication.  I am not saying the video drawing can work or not due to lack of information.  Please post the topic if you wish to start an new subject   thx.

lumen

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Re: Magnetically Imbalanced Wheel
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2013, 02:04:01 AM »
Hmmm, I have audio. It's a bit out of subject in this thread so I posted it in "overbalanced wheel showcase"
 

Hope

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Re: Magnetically Imbalanced Wheel
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2013, 06:14:31 AM »
Tonight I had hoped to post pictures of the disk build.  I can tell you the disk build as drawn is a good one.  The project is 70% done now  BUT the outer magnets will have to be placed on the side facing the flexible rods magnets, both of the outer repulse and the inner repulse.  This prototype is not made for a long run time.  It is built out of a pressed cardboard round box top and has been a simple build.  All the magnets and flat brass rods are mounted with hot glue.  I did install an bearing collar onto the box top.  I think maybe a computer fan bearing would be better.   


I took pictures but forgot the camera at the shop.  I will have them posted tomorrow after another long day at the VA.  BFN