Author Topic: Self spining magnet rotor. (Read 13542 times)

synchro1 · « **on:** August 08, 2013, 05:57:37 PM »

Here's a self spining magnet rotor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FxJkQ3mJ3I

TinselKoala · « **Reply #1 on:** August 09, 2013, 12:05:13 AM »

Facepalm. It is NOT self-spinning, he is pumping it with the handheld stator.

I wonder how many times a day someone playing with magnets re-invents the Minato Motor.

This is a neat implementation of the autokinetic effect, but all of the rotation of the thing comes from the input of Mister Hand. With these kinds of devices just the effort of trying to hold the stator magnet still will be enough to cause pumping of energy into the rotor. Mount the stator to a rigid mount and no matter where you put it, the rotor will stop rotating.

The guy gets a point or two for his enthusiasm, but he gets points off for the political agenda and the self-hypnosis... and the evident lack of background research.

Gahh.... This time I won't even link to _my_ video of a Minato motor pumped by the stator motion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdfPj7wOuQU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWK40g3L3F4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veTMdySMDDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bwtgnr1Fm4

ETA: The true Minato motor, the patented version, uses repulsion between the stator and rotor magnets. I think the "ice cream" motor uses attraction, so you have to be careful not to get too close or the "ice cream" will get pulled up into the "cone" stator, as you see in the video.

TinselKoala · « **Reply #2 on:** August 09, 2013, 01:57:15 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkgyY47duCM

and here's my current favorite: notice how little push from Mr Hand is needed to get the spinner going:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ttm13AyiMs

MileHigh · « **Reply #3 on:** August 09, 2013, 02:34:24 AM »

Ah yes, the "minato motor." It just won't die!

markdansie · « **Reply #4 on:** August 09, 2013, 09:54:57 AM »

why do these things keep coming back.
Now Sterling is reviving the new Fast Freddy as well.
Kind Regards

TinselKoala · « **Reply #5 on:** August 09, 2013, 12:44:03 PM »

I must have missed Fast Freddy the first time around. I see that a lot of people have an emotional history with him.

All I can say at this point is that compressing mixed H and O gases is _dangerous_ and has resulted in many explosions among the HHO tinkerers, even killing a couple of them.

markdansie · « **Reply #6 on:** August 09, 2013, 03:19:33 PM »

@Tk
Freddy sold a lot of exclusive licences to many people, in some cases for tens of thousands.
His original partner blew 25.000 plus before leaving in a screaming heap,
He is a con man through and through
Mark

Liberty · « **Reply #7 on:** August 09, 2013, 05:31:18 PM »

Quote from: TinselKoala on August 09, 2013, 12:05:13 AM

Facepalm. It is NOT self-spinning, he is pumping it with the handheld stator.

I wonder how many times a day someone playing with magnets re-invents the Minato Motor.

This is a neat implementation of the autokinetic effect, but all of the rotation of the thing comes from the input of Mister Hand. With these kinds of devices just the effort of trying to hold the stator magnet still will be enough to cause pumping of energy into the rotor. Mount the stator to a rigid mount and no matter where you put it, the rotor will stop rotating.

The guy gets a point or two for his enthusiasm, but he gets points off for the political agenda and the self-hypnosis... and the evident lack of background research.

Gahh.... This time I won't even link to _my_ video of a Minato motor pumped by the stator motion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdfPj7wOuQU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWK40g3L3F4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veTMdySMDDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bwtgnr1Fm4

ETA: The true Minato motor, the patented version, uses repulsion between the stator and rotor magnets. I think the "ice cream" motor uses attraction, so you have to be careful not to get too close or the "ice cream" will get pulled up into the "cone" stator, as you see in the video.

These types of "non-motor demos" have become easy to spot, when you see the demo shows magnets near each other, being held manually (adding movement by hand) in order to create a weak spin, powered by Mr. hand.

The following magnet motor is a real actuator assisted motor, and derives a good deal of it's drive from the permanent magnetic fields. Different designs of the motor can use more magnetic field drive with much less power consumption. This is a design that is solid and repeatable, not powered by Mr. hand and is not just powered by the actuator.

http://www.youtube.com/user/LibertyMagnetMotor

Liberty

TinselKoala · « **Reply #8 on:** August 09, 2013, 05:50:16 PM »

That's pretty clever (the earliest video 6 years ago shows the principle of operation, which is not clear in the other vids).

You say, though, that it "is not just powered by the actuator."
What else is powering it, then, and do you have any evidence that it is not powered "just" by the speaker-driven actuator?

Why don't you just use a cam or other mechanical linkage running off the rotor, to drive the speaker cone, and then instead of pumping power into the speaker coil, you can get power _out_ of it. Right?

synchro1 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 09, 2013, 06:28:57 PM »

That blows my mind! I'm undergoing some kind of spiritual rebirth.

Liberty · « **Reply #10 on:** August 09, 2013, 06:30:37 PM »

Quote from: TinselKoala on August 09, 2013, 05:50:16 PM

That's pretty clever (the earliest video 6 years ago shows the principle of operation, which is not clear in the other vids).

You say, though, that it "is not just powered by the actuator."
What else is powering it, then, and do you have any evidence that it is not powered "just" by the speaker-driven actuator?

Why don't you just use a cam or other mechanical linkage running off the rotor, to drive the speaker cone, and then instead of pumping power into the speaker coil, you can get power _out_ of it. Right?

Thank you Tinsel.

"What else is powering it,..."

As I said, the permanent magnetic fields of the magnets (in the stator and rotor) provide the remainder of rotational torque in the motor. Since a magnetic field can not be visually displayed, it will not be possible to show visual evidence, without a confidential demonstration (to protect the IP).

Mechanical cam actuation is not practical, because a mechanical design lacks precision (is too sloppy) and would greatly limit motor performance because it lacks precision. Therefore, use of a small amount of power to enable better precision performance of the motor is called for.

Liberty

synchro1 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 09, 2013, 07:29:30 PM »

This latest video of Gotuluc's demonstrates the practicality of overunity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eTQ49RcFKM

Imagine a speaker under the waving magnet hammer oscillator. Gotoluc demonstrates more force per milli amp with the addition of magnets. I believe it's fair to project that kind of gain.

TinselKoala · « **Reply #12 on:** August 09, 2013, 07:38:47 PM »

@Liberty: I hate to always sound so negative... but I'll wager that all the power that rotates the rotor does in fact come from the electrical energy you are supplying to the actuator speaker coil. Since you are unwilling to show evidence to the contrary... maybe I'll just have to build one myself and do some measurements I can rely on.
The reason you don't use my cam-linkage idea is because you know it won't work, and not because of lack of precision. Any competent machinist can work to precision levels far above your ability in gluing a post to a speaker cone, and the magnetic fields you are working with are far sloppier than a precise mechanical linkage would be.
Your magnetic linkage has many real advantages over a mechanical crank-conrod arrangement, and a few disadvantages, but it does not produce any extra energy above what you are supplying to the speaker coil.

TinselKoala · « **Reply #13 on:** August 09, 2013, 07:39:31 PM »

@synchro: Is Gotoluc claiming overunity performance from his device?

Liberty · « **Reply #14 on:** August 09, 2013, 07:52:49 PM »

Quote from: TinselKoala on August 09, 2013, 07:38:47 PM

@Liberty: I hate to always sound so negative... but I'll wager that all the power that rotates the rotor does in fact come from the electrical energy you are supplying to the actuator speaker coil. Since you are unwilling to show evidence to the contrary... maybe I'll just have to build one myself and do some measurements I can rely on.
The reason you don't use my cam-linkage idea is because you know it won't work, and not because of lack of precision. Any competent machinist can work to precision levels far above your ability in gluing a post to a speaker cone, and the magnetic fields you are working with are far sloppier than a precise mechanical linkage would be.
Your magnetic linkage has many real advantages over a mechanical crank-conrod arrangement, and a few disadvantages, but it does not produce any extra energy above what you are supplying to the speaker coil.

I respect your negative opinion, and understand it because of a lack of knowledge and understanding of new technology.

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Author Topic: Self spining magnet rotor. (Read 13542 times)

synchro1

Self spining magnet rotor.

TinselKoala

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