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Author Topic: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)  (Read 35160 times)

Offline telecom

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2013, 09:58:22 PM »
Hi floor,
this is great that you are building a new test rig, looking forward for the results.

I'm determined to have something working as well,
already bought a coil and want to buy a large magnet or two ( 3" dia x 2").
My main concern is a safety in working with such a powerful magnets, not even sure
I will be able to combine them together, if needed.
I have a mechanical engineering background, can work with Solidworks.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #61 on: September 22, 2013, 04:04:07 AM »
@Telecom

I think that it is possible, that under some conditions OU  results may require a certain minimum of size and strength of magnets.
Of course, if one has a self looped device, that is delivering a percentage of excess energy,  on might reasonably expect bigger magnets to give a bigger excess. 

In general, I think that what will work with large or powerful magnets, will also work with smaller magnets.  For purposes of testing and experimentation, and to save on costs I use cheap ceramic magnets.  But the strong magnets sure are fun to play with. Be aware that they can chip or even shatter if they collide. It's a real heart breaker to loose an expensive magnet this way. The risks can tend to take the fun out of playing around with them.  Best of luck to you.  Let me Know as things progress.

                                             Cheers
                                                 floor

Offline telecom

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #62 on: September 22, 2013, 05:34:13 PM »
i keep wondering why to none of our scientists ( millions of them) didn't come an idea to make an experiment similar to yours.There is something wrong here...

Now, after your experiment, I'm also thinking to switch to smaller magnets, since it appears that the sideway attraction ( repulsion) has better results than the axial. In this case it would be natural to use a rotational rather than reciprocational motion the

Btw, it would be easy to integrate the curve once we could fit some kind of an equation for your graph, perhaps parabolic?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #62 on: September 22, 2013, 05:34:13 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #63 on: September 22, 2013, 08:52:49 PM »
@Telecom

I have also wondered that / if some other person had tried this mag. field arrangement before. I have never seen it before.  That is part of the reason, I thought it was worth exploring. 

No one at OU has come forward to say they "have seen it before". 

Nearly all experimenters I have observed in my examinations, appeared to me, to be way too preoccupied with

1. The conservation of energy, usually by conservation of momentum through rotation.
2. The use of stronger and stronger magnets.
3. Alignments that use only the most powerful attracting or repelling potential, ie. more or less direct north to south alignments.
     I guess that even scientists tend to get stuck on "bigger is better.
4. I don't know.

I don't understand "BTW". does this mean the best of two worlds?  Engineering mathematics is not among my skills. I am really just beginning it as a study.  Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it, the curves in my graphs and the areas under the curves, can give only an approximation of the forces.  The correct equation will reveal a much more accurate value for those forces ?   As to what equation best fits the purpose, I don't even know where to begin.

                                                     Cheers
                                                          floor

Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #64 on: September 22, 2013, 09:12:53 PM »
@Telecom


                           PS

I had originally thought that the SL (sliding) forces would be stronger than the RO (rotational). My projections were in part  based upon the fact that my first measurements were only of the total weights needed to "close the gap by rotation as opposed to by sliding.  These measurements  were greater than 1. 5 : 1.  The 1.5 being the sliding force and the 1, being the rotational force.  After modifying the measuring device for the next set of measurements (addition of the 0 to 90 degree scales), It was shown that the RO forces are in fact greater than the SL.  How unexpected and odd !

                                                             floor


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #64 on: September 22, 2013, 09:12:53 PM »
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Offline telecom

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #65 on: September 22, 2013, 09:29:18 PM »
Hi floor,
btw stands for "by the way".

The formulas can only approximately describe the process, but your measurements
are describing them exactly, so your measurements are more important.
What I've noticed from your graphs, is that the excess of work is almost constant at
any distance, therefore it is not really important to integrate, after all. Lets won't worry about the math.

It would be interesting to see what happens with two Neo magnets, or two magnets of different strength, or a very strong magnet and a weak solenoid.

Offline telecom

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #66 on: September 22, 2013, 09:37:14 PM »
@Telecom


                           PS

I had originally thought that the SL (sliding) forces would be stronger than the RO (rotational). My projections were in part  based upon the fact that my first measurements were only of the total weights needed to "close the gap by rotation as opposed to by sliding.  These measurements  were greater than 1. 5 : 1.  The 1.5 being the sliding force and the 1, being the rotational force.  After modifying the measuring device for the next set of measurements (addition of the 0 to 90 degree scales), It was shown that the RO forces are in fact greater than the SL.  How unexpected and odd !

                                                             floor

I must also say that this is counterintuitive.
Can you please point me to the graph with the measurement?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #66 on: September 22, 2013, 09:37:14 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #67 on: September 23, 2013, 03:50:24 AM »
Magnet strengths could affect the ratios,  Particularly so , if the two magnets are of greatly different strengths. 

One reason for this is that no piece of iron is completely magnetized.  Groups of atoms within a magnet, are aligned magnetically with each other in regions, (magnetic domains). The combined mag. fields of these domains, collectively, are aligned as the overall  magnetic polarity / field  of the iron or magnet.   Regions within a magnet that are not  magnetized (are not magnetic domains) will be attracted to either
the north or south poles of another magnet. If the one magnet is very much stronger than the other, this effect can even cause the two
north (or south) poles to stick together. 

I think that stronger magnets will have no effect on the ratio, if they are very nearly the same strength.  I don't know absolutely that this is so. 

A permanent magnet and an solenoid (with an iron core) would have constant attraction and so this would not work in this configuration   Two solenoids would work just as with two magnets.


 

Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #68 on: September 23, 2013, 04:23:00 AM »
The graphs are those already posted

Just remember that RO is rotating and SL is sliding. The two large graphs represent measurements with the magnets in place. 

SL is clamped at close proximity to RO in the LARGE RO graph,  (The width of a sheet of paper)

RO is clamped parallel to SL in the LARGE SL graph. (as SL is pulled toward RO by the weight)

The little graphs RO and SL represent the return stroke and the return rotation. 

Also represented as little graphs (not present in the graph over lay) are measurement of the stroke and rotations while one magnet has been removed (friction alone). Not very relevant under the test conditions.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #68 on: September 23, 2013, 04:23:00 AM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #69 on: September 23, 2013, 04:35:34 AM »

Here are  those graphs again


                                       Cheers
                                            floor


Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #70 on: September 23, 2013, 03:46:27 PM »
@Telecom

I think that the shapes of the magnets affects the ratios. No ACCURATE tests have been made of this assumption. 

As I had originally assumed that forces SL would be greater than forces RO, I also assumed that square (or rectangular magnets stacked to form a square magnet) would produce a more extreme ratio.  I had at one point also considered cylindrical magnets (polarity ACROSS the long axis (rather than along it).  It may be that long narrow magnets (thin broad wafers with the pole on the broad sides) will yield a yet better result.

At this point I am still hoping for replication by some one else. After all no one knows for certain, that I haven't just made up these measurement sets.

                                                 Cheers
                                                      floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #70 on: September 23, 2013, 03:46:27 PM »
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Offline telecom

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #71 on: September 23, 2013, 05:51:51 PM »
I agree,
this may be a shape related fenomena.
I personally have a full trust in your data.

You mentioned that you are planning another set of experiments.
May be you can describe the jig you are planning to use, so some people could build it concurrently?

Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #72 on: September 23, 2013, 06:52:21 PM »
@TeleCom

Essentially The same TD (twist drive) measuring device with mounts designed to accept a variety of shapes and sizes of magnets or electromagnets.

If some one wants to build one, I would hope that it would be a close replica of my current simple device.  My physical measurements seem to be the only thing that could be disputed at this time.  I haven't figured out a way to post the actual physical device.  If one other person verifies the measurements they can or I will come forward with "outrageous" claims. Hopefully there will be many replications after the first, one and the world can have it.

The magnets are only about $3 US for 2, at true value hardware.  The steel axles were scraped from a dead printer, the 0-90 deg. scales can be hand drawn or printed with a graphics prog. and glued to a card board backing. My pulleys are pill bottle lids (stopper type) screwed to blocks of wood that were hand shaped on a belt sander.  The collars on the axles were scraped from the same printer,  they are hubs broken from the centers of paper driving wheels. etc.....

                                         cheers floor

Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #73 on: September 25, 2013, 05:37:26 PM »
@Readers

I am posting some drawings that are of changing perspective of rotating objects. They are my as yet incomplete notes, on interacting spiraling fields.  Please just ignore them if you wish as they are off topic, in regard to the physical mechanics of the TD test unit, except for in a convoluted / abstract way.


Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #74 on: September 25, 2013, 05:55:25 PM »
JEPEGS below



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