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Author Topic: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)  (Read 35161 times)

Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2013, 04:30:27 AM »
@conradelektro

Here are the first sets of measurements. 

There are no graphic representations yet, and there are yet more measurements to take.
It was a lot of work

Thanks again for your time.
(and your patience)

                                    Cheers
                                         floor



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline conradelektro

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2013, 10:38:27 AM »
@Floor:

Great, the measurement accuracy is better than I expected (little difference between all five measurements). I think that three measurements (instead of five) per position or weight are enough.

Unfortunately it is not clear to me which movements you measured.

I came up with a "numbering" or "naming" of the different movements of your machine in the attached document (which I already attached in an earlier post). May be we can stick to this "naming" of the movements: set 1), set 2), set 3A), set 3B), set 4A) and set 4B).
 
You can of course define an other "naming" convention.
 
Take your time, there is no hurry.

The 22° jump: may be it means that the neccessary force (weight of the bottle) is less at 80° than at 68° or 90°. You could move your machine to 80° by hand and then find a weight that holds it at 80°?
 
Greetings, Conrad

Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2013, 02:11:00 AM »
@conradelektro

As yet there are only 2 sets measured, the largest ones.

RO = rotating magnet
SL = sliding magnet

Both of these sets of measurements, were taken with the magnets in place.

RO was measured while SL was in close proximity.

SL was measured while RO was parallel to SL  "0 degrees off"

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2013, 02:11:00 AM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2013, 02:24:20 AM »
The above PDF file "TD measurements corrected 1" undoubtedly still contains errors.

Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2013, 04:04:49 PM »
@conradelektro

Thanks for the input / suggestions.

Yes we will investigate the "jump" in later measurements.

My apologies for the sloppiness, errors and redundancy of some of the previous uploads.


Please find the carefully produced and attached PDF file for your review / checking / entertainment.


                          PS
                           Other people's reviews, error checking and will be appreciated.
                           For the convenience of others, please include a PDF format version for lengthy input.

                    Cheers
                           floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2013, 04:04:49 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2013, 04:09:54 PM »
Here is the PDF version


                      floor

Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2013, 08:08:24 AM »
More measurements, there is perhaps one more set needed.

The graphical representations are not done for these last sets.

please find attached 3 jpeg files


                                         Cheers
                                                floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2013, 08:08:24 AM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2013, 10:40:25 AM »
@Floor:

The measurements are very nicely done, great. You are close to calculate the total work.


W1 = work necessary to move the "sliding magnet" towards the "rotating magnet", both magnets are in the horizontal position, movement starts from the point where the two magnets are farthest apart and ends when the magnets almost touch

W2 = work necessary to turn the "rotating magnet" from a vertical position to a horizontal position, the "sliding magnet" is very close to the "rotating magnet", the movement is a 90° turn of the "rotating magnet"

W3 = work necessary to move the "sliding magnet" towards the "rotating magnet", the "rotating magnet" is in the vertical position and the "sliding magnet" is in the horizontal position, movement starts from the point where the two magnets are farthest apart and ends when the magnets almost touch

W4 = work necessary to turn the "rotating magnet" from a horizontal position to a vertical position, the "sliding magnet" is farthest apart from the "rotating magnet", the movement is a 90° turn of the "rotating magnet"


Power stroke: W1

Recovery stroke: W2 + W3 + W4


I think I do not have to redo your graphs, they look o.k.

A question: Let's assume the two magnets are both in the horizontal position and very close together. (One has to hold the "sliding magnet", otherwise it would want to move away. One also has to hold the "rotating magnet", other wise it would want to turn away from the horizontal position.) If you let go of the"rotating magnet", does it snap or turn back to the vertical position completely by itself (without manual intervention)?


Greetings, Conrad

Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2013, 10:37:07 PM »
@conradelektro

Yes, under those conditions RO snaps back.

Also RO tends to snap back when the magnets are separated.
Also SL  tends to return to close proximity to RO even when RO is at 90 degrees off.

Here are the "little graphs" and an over lay of all the graphs.





Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2013, 10:37:07 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2013, 10:45:17 PM »
The force imbalance is reverse of what I had projected ?

After all calculations,  corrections and reviews are complete, I am willing to loan the
TD unit to you, if you wish, and if you will pay for shipping both ways.


                         Cheers
                               floor

Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2013, 04:39:50 AM »
@conradelektro

Previous post was also @conradelektro

I don't want to make any claims at this time, and I do not want anyone else making claims at this time, at least not here in this topic.
There needs to be solid multiple peer reviews, error checking and replication, before any claims are made.

Do you agree ?

                                                               floor
                                                                   

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2013, 04:39:50 AM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2013, 08:24:00 AM »
OOPS

Offline conradelektro

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2013, 12:59:40 PM »
@Floor:

The measurements and graphs are very nicely done. Whatever they say, it is for you to interpret.

I am not interested enough in "permanent magnet machines" to put serious work into it. Therefore I respectfully decline the offer to do any tests personally.

I am working on a ball magnet spinner, which already takes too much of my time. Further I am always working on and off on electrostatic machines. See the attached drawing (which I built partially). It is very easy and versatile to drive a servo with an Arduino (I have the Arduino Due).

Greetings, Conrad

Offline lumen

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2013, 05:45:19 PM »
@Floor
 
I'm not sure if it's correct with the graph  showing "work" as the area under the lines.
I am probably wrong but "work" is distance x force and the graph is showing force at point.
 
I think the "work" might be more closely related to the length of each line in your graph as it has been recorded as points of force on an increasing scale.

On second thought, it would probably be best to just calculate the distance between each point and the average force of the two points and multiply, save the result and do the same for every point. Then just add all the work (units aren't important at this point) in each set and compare the total work of each set.
Every time I did it this way, it always worked out to even or so close I just considered it equal.
 ??? ??
 

Offline conradelektro

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Re: New Perm Mag Engine Design 1.5 : 1 Ratio (work from magnets)
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2013, 12:10:13 PM »
@Floor
 
I'm not sure if it's correct with the graph  showing "work" as the area under the lines.
I am probably wrong but "work" is distance x force and the graph is showing force at point.
 
 ??? ??

"Work" is essentially the area under the graph (the integral of the graph or curve). One would have to write grams as kilos and millimetres as meter and to multiply the whole with "G = 9.81". But this would just alter the aspect ratio and not the comparison Floor is interested in.

If (a < b) then (a*c < b*c) as long as c is a positive constant.

Greetings, Conrad

 

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