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Author Topic: Gravity CAN do Work  (Read 41571 times)

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2013, 06:50:29 AM »
it's not that you are blind, it's that you wish to be blind,

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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2013, 06:50:29 AM »

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2013, 12:28:42 PM »
Gravity causes the weakest or strongest Force we know of.  Depending on the mass at the center of it's acceleration field, or something like that.  Here on Earth it is a pretty miniscule Force.  That is because the mass of the Earth is relatively small compared to other celestial bodies, or even when viewed as a fraction of the mass of the entire Universe, etc.  Even the tiniest magnet can overcome it!
 
I agree that using gravity to power anything meaningful is a stretch.  Is it a practical solution to any energy need?  Probably not too many cases.  But gravity does exist everywhere on this planet, regardless of the location's proximity to a conventional power grid or accessibility to solar, wind, or other natural energy sources.  But enough with that for now... 
 
I was taught that Gravity is a Conservative Field of Force and therefor cannot do Work.  More recently I was told of a device that appears to contradict that claim.  I assembled a simulation of a principle form of that device in a Physics based software program.  The simulation reacts in a similar manner to the device it was intended to model and therefor also appears to contradict the claim that Gravity cannot do Work.
 
I think the discussion should be focused on the principal of the device more so than on the intentions of myself or the inceptor.  I am of no consequence AFAIK.  The device and what it potentially demonstrates is, however, significant.
 
M.

Offline Gabriele

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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2013, 04:17:10 PM »
I think it is probable with moving right the weight ,the system lose potential energy. If you can attach the wm file it's sure we understand the trik

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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2013, 04:17:10 PM »
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Offline mondrasek

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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2013, 05:15:41 PM »
Here is the WM2D file from the video.  Also attached should be the DXF file of the geometry in a .zip file so you can build your own if you like.
 
The geometry file has extra circles to be targets for the pins (axles).  I erased all of those (after placing the pins) except the one on the far upper left that is the counterweight and the two smaller ones that are rollers.  After assembly I added the "slider weight" from the included WM2D tools and changed it's mass to be 1 kg.  I positioned it somewhat near the center of the lever arm that I moved it on in the video and then adjusted the mass parameter of the counterweight until the system nearly balanced.
 
No other changes to parameters of object or additional items were added.
 
I think I changed the collision value from .01 to .001 to accommodate the scale of the objects and the clearance I allowed for the rollers.
 
M.
 

Offline Gabriele

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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2013, 08:58:15 PM »
numble numble...

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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2013, 08:58:15 PM »
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Offline mondrasek

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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2013, 09:07:05 PM »
Gabriele,
 
Sorry, but there is no doubt that the system is NOT Overunity.  There is a clear source of Energy involved.  That source is apparently Gravity. 
 
The problem with what I have just said is that Gravity is taught to NOT be a source of Energy (ie. Cannot do Work).
 
If you have a question about "tolerances" then please let us all know exactly what you think might be wrong.
 
Thanks,
 
M.
 
Edited to add:  You have changed your post that questions the "tolerances" so please feel free to ignore this reply.
 
 

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2013, 11:55:06 PM »
Bump.
 
PS. Australia starts coming on line when?  Also, I hope the earthquake near NZ did not cause any noticeable negative effects to our friends there.
 
M.

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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2013, 11:55:06 PM »
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Offline mondrasek

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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2013, 02:28:05 AM »
Webby1,
Yeah, I'm sorry.  I did not give suggestions on the "correct" or "best" way to build a real world embodiment of the sim only because I have no idea what advice could be relevant!
I have only reproduced what I believe has been shown (the construction being discussed) in a computer simulation program.
My own interpretation was to MAXIMIZE the roller arm to the limit of what the PABB (Parallel Arm Balance Beam) (or Roberval balance as Rafael was so quick to recognize) could do.
It might not be optimal as far as Work is concerned .
But that was just my initial and probably simplistic idea about how to optimize this system.
M.
 
 


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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2013, 05:39:29 AM »
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Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2013, 06:11:39 AM »
make a dam hydroelectric dam and work off that dam it!!!

to be honest, it will require a trillion fold more energy which nature can't produce to reach another earth like planet. this is the goal of all humans trying to survive the next extinction of earth. we are happy your with your god and are dead now, less people to interfere with in real life!!!

Offline tinman

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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2013, 08:08:12 AM »
Gravity powered devices have been around for some time. These produce power by using only gravity as the source to produce this power.
Those that are blind, have no vision.

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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2013, 08:08:12 AM »
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Offline LibreEnergia

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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2013, 09:29:12 AM »
Gravity powered devices have been around for some time. These produce power by using only gravity as the source to produce this power.
Those that are blind, have no vision.

Absolutely untrue. I challenge you to provide evidence even one credible instance of a working gravity (only) powered device.

Offline Rafael Ti

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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2013, 10:56:31 AM »
Gravity powered devices have been around for some time. These produce power by using only gravity as the source to produce this power.
Those that are blind, have no vision.
This is because people do not consider the gravity as a form of energy. You can call it Neutrinos, or in some cases Solar Wind or Cosmic Ray... never mind. The fact is that the gravity of planets comes from the space/Vacuum filled with energetic Chaos. These little particles carrying energy just hit the particle structure of Earth rendering some part of their energy. That causes gravity. This is also why the Earth can keep it's temperature. So we float in the sea of energy which is free.
Even if we say that gravity is a force.. the force is always result of operating energy.
The presence of such a big mass - the Earth causes kind of unbalance in energetic chaos in Cosmos. Being in Earth's proximity allows us to utilize the energy of gravity.

Offline tinman

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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2013, 11:03:22 AM »
Absolutely untrue. I challenge you to provide evidence even one credible instance of a working gravity (only) powered device.
I will take up your challenge LibreEnergia.
What you and many others fail to realise,is that there is two gravitational forces here on earth-not one. And one of them is a non linear force from our frame of reference. I have attached a few video's of these machines that work using this non linear gravitational force. Infact gravity powered devices have been around since the late 11th century. I can provide many more gravity powered devices if you wish.
So if not powered by gravity-then how?
This gravitational force has been around for over 4 billion years,and will be here for another 4 billion-well we all hope anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUqCU_yIvY4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZyGlR-AmRo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-le0CvK3kJk

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Gravity CAN do Work
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2013, 11:35:33 AM »
Nice! The tides are a gravitational effect, for sure.

But.... er..... gravity, or rather the gravitational gradient, provides the force that "stretches" the oceans out in the radial direction.... but the ebb and flow of the ocean tides is caused by the Earth itself rotating under the humps made by this elongation, which always points toward and away from the Moon. (And a smaller pair of humps caused by the Sun.) SO really it is the flywheel of the Earth's rotation that provides the "power" in the tides, not gravity itself, and the tides are a drag on the stored energy of this flywheel. That's why the moon wound up always facing us: it is tidally slowed and  locked, having had all its energy of rotation relative to the Earth extracted and dissipated by tides in its body caused by the Earth's gravity.

 

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