Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Hydrogen energy => Electrolysis of H20 and Hydrogen on demand generation => Topic started by: Paki1 on July 14, 2013, 04:26:30 PM

Title: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Paki1 on July 14, 2013, 04:26:30 PM
I am sharing here the media videos of Agha Waqar of Pakistan in which he is discussing about his HHO fuel cell to run a car solely on it and that he is demonstrating the running of car on his HHO fuel cell many times in front of Pakistani scientists, research institutes, media and public.

Short Introduction video without English subtitles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1AspJkGoek

Discussion with Agha Waqar, 29 August 2012 on Pakistani TV channel with English subtitles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgVzZ_Aat1E

Discussion with Agha Waqar, 14 August 2012 on Pakistani TV Channel with English subtitles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpnF6qnAvI8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNVBKDcuO5Q

Agha Waqar proving himself in front of Pakistani scientists and media, 31st July 2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO4bZqcGTyw

Agha Waqar proving himself on Pakistani TV channel by demonstrating the running of Car on his Water fuel cell, 7 December 2012 without English subtitles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UanYSNX8Ap0

Engineer Agha Waqar and His Version, with English subtitles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5NAUlkNhOk

I will try to provide these and other videos with English subtitles.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: TinselKoala on July 15, 2013, 02:21:00 AM
Agha Waqar

Aqua Car?

you are kidding, I hope.....
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on July 15, 2013, 08:33:46 AM
yawn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsmkhoeZ5R8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsmkhoeZ5R8)

Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on July 15, 2013, 08:37:39 AM
zzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzz
http://www.zemtv.com/2012/08/14/agha-waqar-water-kit-was-fraud-explained-by-dr-samar-mubarak/ (http://www.zemtv.com/2012/08/14/agha-waqar-water-kit-was-fraud-explained-by-dr-samar-mubarak/)



Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on July 15, 2013, 08:41:50 AM
dng ding ding (alarm clock goes off)


From a student post  in a forum .


I was waiting for the day when the truth would come out and finally we have the news that The Con Man Agha Waqar is gone. Although i am a doctor of medicine but due to my curious nature for the past few years I have been imagining if there could be any way to successfully use hydrogen as source of energy to run cars. But the problem was First Law of Thermodynamics. I then thought that what if we use Solar Panels to recharge the battery but after little more exploration I found out that even  a 100 watt solar panel takes 7-8 days to recharge a battery that is 100 Amp so unless you have your own little hydal power plant you can not run your car on electrolysis and therefore i threw this idea out of my mind.[/font][/size]Few weeks ago when I heard about this Engineer Agha Waqar who obviously belongs to PPP (and is not an engineer) i thought that the TV anchors would turn him down in seconds and expose him but unfortunately What happened was exactly the opposite. I now know that these so called T.V anchors like Hamid Mir don't even bother to do a little homework before going on air.How ever I knew that this was going to blow in their face and it did.One thing however came Good out of it. It exposed many people like Dr Qadeer and dr samar mubarak(who don't even know about first law of thermodynamics) . I now think that these fools were brought forward to protect the real brains behind the nuclear projects. May be I am wrong. Anyways who cares. A nuclear Bomb cant do me any Good if the country is facing threats from inside. Threats like Talibans and PPP and PML-N.I even cant believe how the chairman of PCSIR can be such a fool who also dont know about Laws of physics. i mean how can you pass your matric and Fsc if you dont know this. There is one way though, CHEATINGSo the Drama ends now
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Paki1 on July 15, 2013, 09:05:16 AM
Agha Waqar has never been proved fraud but he has always proved himself running the cars on his HHO fuel cells in front of Pakistani scientists, TV anchors, TV programs, other HHO fuel cell makers and general public. Please show me any video in which he is proved fraud/wrong.
Please watch his last demonstration of running the car on one of the Pakistani famous TV channel in which he has once again proved that he can run the car solely on his HHO fuel cell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo4hSwaLBkg (I will share this video with English subtitles soon).
Agha Waqar is still firm on his claim that he can run any vehicle on his HHO fuel cell (using distilled water or the water discharging from domestic air conditioners). Agha Waqar is still struggling to launch his HHO fuel cell in Pakistan but nobody is helping him in this due to propaganda against him.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Paki1 on July 15, 2013, 09:58:48 AM
I want to make it clear here that scientists and the persons having studied science in high school are against him because they think his running the car on HHO fuel cell impossible and against science  (1st Law of Thermodynamics). That is why they say that it is fraud. Otherwise nobody has any other objection on his HHO fuel cell.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: TinselKoala on July 15, 2013, 10:34:45 AM
Is there some other reason or objection required?



Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Paki1 on July 15, 2013, 11:04:33 AM
Is there some other reason or objection required?
@TiselKoala, what you say about this research paper:
http://www.einsteinshiddenvariables.com/uploads/SPIE_August_2009_Resonance_Factor.pdf
It is stating that "Having described resonant electromagnetic waves as orderly and “completely homogeneous vibrations”, Planck then linked that concept to Helmholtz’s teachings, stating that the “energy would have to be completely free to be converted into work.” This was Planck’s insightful Resonance Hypothesis."
You should also remember that Resonance is a major factor in energy transfer in HHO fuel cell.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: TinselKoala on July 15, 2013, 02:06:29 PM
@TiselKoala, what you say about this research paper:
http://www.einsteinshiddenvariables.com/uploads/SPIE_August_2009_Resonance_Factor.pdf (http://www.einsteinshiddenvariables.com/uploads/SPIE_August_2009_Resonance_Factor.pdf)
It is stating that "Having described resonant electromagnetic waves as orderly and “completely homogeneous vibrations”, Planck then linked that concept to Helmholtz’s teachings, stating that the “energy would have to be completely free to be converted into work.” This was Planck’s insightful Resonance Hypothesis."
You should also remember that Resonance is a major factor in energy transfer in HHO fuel cell.

I think you are parroting words and concepts that you don't really understand. But don't pay any attention to me, I am not concerned with theoretical explanations for devices that nobody has actually seen, or performances that can't be verified or duplicated.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on July 15, 2013, 09:52:13 PM
@Paki1


I think this says it the best
By Pervez Hoodbhoy (http://tribune.com.pk/author/1769/pervez-hoodbhoy/)
August 3rd 2012[/font][/color]
 Agha Waqar Ahmad deserves a medal from the people of Pakistan for his great service to the nation. In a few short days, he has exposed just how far Pakistan has fallen into the pit of ignorance and self-delusion. No practical joker could have demonstrated more dramatically the true nature of our country’s political leaders, popular TV anchors and famed scientists.[/font][/color]
At first, it sounded like a joke: a self-styled engineer, trained in Khairpur’s polytechnic institute, claims to have invented a ‘water kit’ enabling any car to run on water alone. (http://tribune.com.pk/story/416542/the-water-car-fraud/A%20car%20that%20runs%20on%20water?) It didn’t matter that the rest of world couldn’t extract energy from water; he had done it. He promised a new Pakistan with limitless energy, no need for petrol or gas, and no more loadshedding. For an energy starved nation, it is a vision of paradise.[/font][/color]
Agha Waqar Ahmad is now a national celebrity thanks to Religious Affairs Minister Khursheed Shah (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OAfr-2gw8aY). Federal ministers Mir Hazar Khan Bijarani and Qamar Zaman Kaira have added their commendations. President Asif Ali Zardari has expressed his delight. The cabinet has met three times to discuss the water vehicle, and a fourth meeting is scheduled. Reports suggest millions may be spent on the ‘water fuel kit project’.[/font][/color]
The media has rushed in to celebrate the new national hero. For TV anchor Talat Husain, thanks to Agha Waqar Ahmad’s invention, Pakistan’s image can go from a country ravaged by terrorism to one of boundless possibilities. Anchor Hamid Mir and Senator Parvaiz Rasheed drove around Islamabad sitting next to the inventor, wondering how to protect the man’s life from Western oil companies. Anchor Arshad Sharif was euphoric about the $14 billion Pakistan would save on oil imports.[/font][/color]
Pakistan’s most celebrated scientists were not far behind. Asked by Anchor Sharif whether a car could run only on water, nuclear hero Dr Samar Mubarakmand replied without hesitation: “jee haan, bilkul ho sakta hai” (yes, absolutely possible). For his part, Hamid Mir asked Dr AQ Khan if there was any chance of this being a fraud. The response was clear: “Main nay apnay level per investigate kiya hai aur koi fraud waraud nahi kiya hai (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=K-8fPcGcl18)” (I have investigated the matter and there is no fraud involved). The head of the Pakistan Council of Scientific and Industrial Research, Dr Shaukat Parvaiz, went further: “hum nay bhi iss pay kam karaya tha” (we had some work done on this too).[/font][/color]
So, what is the problem? It’s that the laws of physics, in particular a fundamental scientific principle known as the Second Law of Thermodynamics (http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CGcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FSecond_law_of_thermodynamics&ei=xqkaUPuoAuihiAfe5oHIBg&usg=AFQjCNEfR8QsBkgswNrUQUcBRy5BmkbpQg&sig2=Kwuzzs2nbYArIg7zQj6P8Q), impose inviolable constraints. Every machine constructed anywhere uses the Second Law. This is something that I learned in my first year as a student at MIT and have taught for 40 years. No serious scientist would dream of challenging the Second Law. Agha Waqar Ahmad’s ‘water kit’, if one believes science to be right, simply cannot work. What the inventor, the ministers, the anchors and scientists claim on TV is wrong.[/font][/color]
To his credit, the only person on TV that seemed to know this elementary principle was Dr Attaur Rahman (http://tribune.com.pk/author/2042/attaur-rahman/), a chemist and a former HEC chairman. I have not agreed with all his actions and views in the past, but he alone rejected the claims about the new machine. Sadly, he was not able to hold back the tide of a nation desperate for any answer to its energy woes.[/font][/color]
The water fraud will be exposed soon enough and, like a bad posterior smell, will go away. A simple experiment will make this happen faster. Here’s how: take an emergency electricity generator, of which there are thousands in Islamabad. Its engine is similar to that in a car. Remove the fuel tank and make sure the ‘water kit’ contains only water. Then ask the inventor to connect it up and run the generator. Let there be enough sharp-eyed witnesses of intelligence and integrity.[/font][/color]
But this episode raises bigger questions. Scientific frauds exist in other countries, but what explains their spectacular success in Pakistan? Answer: our leaders are lost in the dark, fumbling desperately for a miracle; our media is chasing spectacle, not truth; and our great scientists care more about being important than about evidence. It is easy for them all to get away with this. As a nation, we have proven unwilling to do the hard work needed to learn to reason, to be sceptical, to demand proof, to understand even basic science. It is easier to believe the world is run by magic and conspiracies, to wish and wait for Aladin’s magic lamp. We live in the age of jahilliya.[/font][/color]
Originally published by Tribune Pakistan[/font][/color]
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Paki1 on July 16, 2013, 05:24:10 PM
Agha Waqar running a Car on Water - with English Subtitles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNCFgVPN2AA
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on July 16, 2013, 11:59:04 PM
heres a giagantic secret im going to throw to you people..nah.i rather not nevamind.theres ways to electrolyse water at way under 1.23volts but its rate limited,unless..
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: TinselKoala on July 17, 2013, 01:46:49 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Fg2-z5c5Y
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Paki1 on July 17, 2013, 05:01:38 AM
@TiselKoala, if you cannot appreciate others, please do not mock others. I know you are the "Hero Member". From your first post, it was clear that only you people can do anything and nobody else can do any big thing. You are superb, others are nothing. You have no respect for others.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 17, 2013, 05:04:06 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Fg2-z5c5Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Fg2-z5c5Y)

That was great!

Bill
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on July 17, 2013, 05:23:01 AM
Paki1
You are really out of your depth here. I studied the videos and he has nothing new. I would not call it fraud just delusion on a grand scale. I have seen V8 trucks run on nothing but HHO , until the batteries run flat.
I also have tested in some of the leading automotive labs in the world HHO devices and claims.
So stop ramming this BS down our throats and pretending there is some sort of conspiracy because there is not. I noticed you did not respond to the letters i posted from your own countrymen, far more qualified by you.
If you want to convince anyone stop using antidote evidence and get some hard data collected by qualified people using acceptable methodologies.
HHO does have some benefits, but self running....no way.
So put up or shut up.
With Kind Regards
Mark
PS loved the bugs TK
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Paki1 on July 17, 2013, 05:47:00 AM
@markdansie, Agha Waqar has been running the cars on his HHO fuel cell for weeks without loosing any car battery. He has claimed this also on TV channels that car battery will never expire due to his fuel cell. If you need, I can translate and share these videos for you.

He is now facing the problem that how to launch his HHO fuel cell in Pakistan on commercial basis. Government is not helping him due to opposition by government scientists and some "general science educated" people. He cannot manufacture these HHO fuel cells in bulk on his own and then launch. He does not believe in patent in Pakistan. How can he launch the HHO fuel cell so that we can use it ourselves and confirm? Any idea.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on July 17, 2013, 07:43:27 AM
Simple answer,
1. If he can get some credible data using a proper methodology he would be given millions.
It really is that simple. All we have is his own words and given the other hundreds of false claims before him, it makes it difficult for anyone to believe.
2. Point out what is different between his and the otehr thousand HHO devices out there
Kind Regards
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Paki1 on August 18, 2013, 09:49:54 AM
Yesterday, in a meeting with Agha Waqar, he said that he is performing the electrolysis of the distilled water or the discharge water from the air conditioner. He asked me, "Was it possible for anyone (except Stanley Meyer)  to do the same?"
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 18, 2013, 10:38:51 AM
Both he and Stan had one thing in common, neither had a car running on water, or better phrased that could be independently verified. or replicated.

Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: ramset on August 18, 2013, 02:50:26 PM
Mark
Perhaps to say Stan did not run the car on water with out first hand Knowledge
is Not fair ?
After all he is not here to defend himself...
 
We all Know and are taught just how much energy is locked up in water  :o
as a matter of fact there is energy locked into everything around us ,an immense amount
beyond comprehension.
 
thx
Chet
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Paki1 on August 18, 2013, 06:26:59 PM
@markdansie, how can the Agha Waqar's HHO fuel cell be independently verified? Please give some practical methods.
Also, if you want to verify yourself then you can come here in Pakistan and verify it yourself personally. Also, if you can bear the expenses, Agha Waqar can come to you and can prove to you there in front of you that his claims about the HHO fuel cell are all correct and that his fuel cell is over unity.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: MileHigh on August 18, 2013, 06:33:45 PM
You know the old cliche, water is the ash you get after you burn hydrogen.  Ash means a LOW energy state, you have already "sucked out the juice."

Let me see if I can find the chemical equation.  Okay I found it in question and answer form:

Quote
Question:

H2(g) + 1/2 O2(g) → H2O(l) ΔH = -286 kJ/mol
What is the enthalpy change when 15.0 mol of hydrogen gas reacts with excess oxygen.

Answer:

Overall, the enthalpy change is negative. Therefore it is an exothermic reaction (heat is released)
There 286kJ per mole is given off. If 15 mol of H2 is burnt in oxygen, 286x 15 Kj of Energy given off.
Hence 4290kJ of energy is released (provided the Oxygen is in excess supply). Ie, Total change in enthalypy is -4290kJ.

Note this is the chemical energy associated with the reaction, not the fantasy "clockwork of the Universe energy in a teacup" energy.

I believe that the "HHO" crowd always makes the pitch that they can separate water into hydrogen and oxygen by using an undefined "fantasy resonance" based system so that they don't have to expend the 286 kilojoules of energy per mole to do the separation.  It's the alleged "get out of jail free" card.  But then they reap the benefits of the 286 kilojoules of energy given off when the hydrogen recombines with oxygen.

So they are implying an over unity process can be realized when you separate the water.  Hence you can run your car on water by using a small amount of the 286 kilojoules per mole given off during the burning to separate more water into hydrogen and oxygen.

So there is an alleged "energy short cut" to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen.  It's been a year on now and no news about fleets of buses and cars running on water in Pakistan.  Am I correct?

MileHigh
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Kator01 on August 19, 2013, 01:03:46 AM
Milehigh,

interesting that you ask this question. Yesterday I stumbled on this guy here: David A. Puchta:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Hhydrogen4Power&oq=Hhydrogen4Power&gs_l=youtube.12...0.0.0.1327952.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0...0.0...1ac..11.youtube. (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Hhydrogen4Power&oq=Hhydrogen4Power&gs_l=youtube.12...0.0.0.1327952.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0...0.0...1ac..11.youtube.)

He developed some electrode-material which he is offering at a unpayable price of 2500 $/ounce !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5t8_eCqyrg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5t8_eCqyrg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bc3h0ObjBY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bc3h0ObjBY)

and than this project of Todd here: ( TiO2 - Plasma Spray Coating )
http://www.overunity.com/13651/now-offering-electron-extraction-coating-services/msg366025/#new (http://www.overunity.com/13651/now-offering-electron-extraction-coating-services/msg366025/#new)

Regards

Kator01

Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 19, 2013, 01:53:15 AM
Mark
Perhaps to say Stan did not run the car on water with out first hand Knowledge
is Not fair ?
After all he is not here to defend himself...
 
We all Know and are taught just how much energy is locked up in water  :o
as a matter of fact there is energy locked into everything around us ,an immense amount
beyond comprehension.
 
thx
Chet


Hi Chet
First of all I agree and will leave Stan out of it.  My opinion was formed after interviewing people who had met and worked with Stan , and in some cases caught him out. i interviewed many people. However I take your point.
There is energy locked up in water and it takes the same amount of energy if not more to unlock it or was used to lock it up in the first place. No one has ever demonstrated any way of unlocking it where an net gain gain be realized, although some plasma technologies or cavitation may in the the future prove this possible.
As for this Pakistan claim , has been debunked, unable to be replicated or tested by third parties in any credible way.  Its a joke and a disgrace.
Kind Regards
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 19, 2013, 02:07:49 AM
@markdansie, how can the Agha Waqar's HHO fuel cell be independently verified? Please give some practical methods.
Also, if you want to verify yourself then you can come here in Pakistan and verify it yourself personally. Also, if you can bear the expenses, Agha Waqar can come to you and can prove to you there in front of you that his claims about the HHO fuel cell are all correct and that his fuel cell is over unity.


Simple test to verify it
1. measure the power in to the cell.
2. measure the volume of gas coming out . I.E. liters per second)
3. have the gas analysed for purity


I have seen , built, visited  or tested over 30 cells worldwide. I have seen in some cases many millions of dollars wasted. In every case the energy expended generating the hydrogen is greater than the energy content of the gas harvested. I have seen people run engines on it but never for long self sustaining or self looped, normally until the batteries ran flat. So show me any evidence or data to the contrary first. This is self delusion and luckily some scientists were smart enough to publicly denounce it before too much damage was done to some government representatives who should have known better.
The onus is on the inventor to provide the above data, I have set you the parameters. Number 1 and 2 would be at no costs and I am sure you can do the third at little cost.


PS have the electrolyte analysed for Alcohol or other hydrocarbon sources.  This is the most common trick used by so called inventors (I.E. water motorcycle in NZ)


If any worthwhile data was provided other than here say evidence and emotive BS, would be happy to stop in and have a look.
My final point is why has the government not come to his aid as promised or why has he not been showered by money form potential investors?


Kind Regards
Mark
 
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: TinselKoala on August 19, 2013, 02:41:10 AM
One thing that winds up fooling water electrolysis experimenters is the volume flow of their output stream. Especially with high current multi-electrode systems, it is easy to actually get boiling water between your electrodes, and just a tiny bit of water made into steam will make you think your output is really "cooking". Unfortunately you still can't burn steam, although it can have some beneficial anti-knock effects if injected properly into an ICE's intake or directly into the cylinders even. But it's not a fuel!
You can get this localized boiling or steaming even if the bulk of the electrolyte is cool. So for any kind of output measurements that depend on volume flow of gas out, please be sure to use a good dryer system to dry the gas completely before measuring its flow rate.

And for the love of Pete be careful.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 19, 2013, 04:39:10 PM
@milehigh.water can be split electrolyticly at way below 1.23volts but its rate slows down,theres way to increase the rate and manage the rate.do this experiment: shove two carbon electrodes into salt water,pass current at e.g. 0.5 volts and measure if current passes.current passes my friend.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: ramset on August 19, 2013, 05:45:54 PM
Mark
I do not believe there is dispute over Meyer running his Car on Water,in dispute is the
"O U" claim ?
So be it... the costs I suppose are all relevant to what we pay for our OIL .
 
If things Keep heating up in certain parts of the world and the Infrastructure for OIL transport becomes effected [Suez Canal] COP concerns may go out the window ?
 
Perhaps thats the way it should be ,we live on a mostly Water planet perhaps its by design?
 
Have a good day..
 
Chet
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Kator01 on August 19, 2013, 06:39:19 PM
profitis,

yes true, just uploaded a file : Bockris, on the splitting of water. Go to the download-section

http://www.overunity.com/downloads/#.UhJJC38w6uI (http://www.overunity.com/downloads/#.UhJJC38w6uI)

Regards

Kator01
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 19, 2013, 09:26:08 PM
bockris is a genius @kator,however no fuel consumption is required in my above example,one can use 2 smooth platinum electrodes with same result,electrolysis and splitting of water at 0.5 volts,at a slow pace.give me a fuel cell @kator and i,l use it to split water fast with my secret electrodes(-:
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Kator01 on August 19, 2013, 11:57:48 PM
profitis,

I have two carbon rods ( saved from an old Zinc-Carbon battery ). Do you mean carbon or graphite ?
I will give it a try. Salt-Concentration necessary for this experiment  ?

My understanding is that this is the standard chloralkali-process: Using salt-water you will get cloride which will form H2, O2, Cl2 and  OH-, ClO-, ClO3- , so you have to be careful and ventilate your room.

Why no fuel-consumption since H2 is formed ? In addition you will get NaOH but only if you use a membrane

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloralkali_process (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloralkali_process)

Or do you mean no consumption of carbon ?

Kator01
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 20, 2013, 01:04:44 AM
yes kator no consumption of carbon necesary.carbon is actualy very unreactive at room temperature so it will do fine for the experiment.you can use sodium bicarbonate or sodium hydroxide aswell then no chlorine will form,just oxygen and hydrogen.every single electron that passes through the cell has no choice but to split water(faraday,s law) so try to measure the current that passes on a milliamp meter,and multiply by time and then we work out how much gases formed.make sure your carbon rods are totaly de-waxed by holding them over a candle flame with pliers and burn the wax off kator,one end then the other end,for maximum surface area and to un-waterproof them.use a high concentration of electrolyte for the experiment.what are you going to use as your power source kator.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 20, 2013, 02:46:29 AM
@profiis
go do some homework. Introducing other elements like Urea to teh solution can lower the voltage required for electrolysis down substantially (possibly bellow .5 v) You can also introduce alcohol lol.
I admire your free thought and imagination but please do some practical experiments and report the data. As far as this Pakistan Car goes its is 100% bullshit, he has been exposed, denounced and the track record still stands water powered cars 0/ science 100


People hear grab a headline or a story that matched their belief system and often choose to ignore all the other over whelming evidence against.


mark
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 20, 2013, 03:23:49 AM
@markdansie,we await kator,s results,i trust that he wont use urea and stick to baking soda.heres a hint: chemical potential/surface area=electro-chemical potential.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Kator01 on August 20, 2013, 11:51:24 AM
@profitis,

powersource ? I can build one custom-build for this experiment, DC, puls DC, half-wave 50 Hz, full-rectified 100 Hz, Kiloherz-Range whatever works best.

I start with DC and use an 1 molar-solution first.

@markdansie: why not try it yourself ? To experience something - even if you are at failure - is the most valuable thing which could happen to you.
I have a clear impression that profitis knows his stuff, I trust him

I build many things in the past and many were failures.

By exposing yourself to direct practical experience - if done with the right attitude - your consiousness gets in close contact with the matter or the process you create. It worth more than a million dollars... but I also know that this path is not for everyone to follow.

@profitis: I will post a pic of my carbon-rods. Best method of  cleaning would be a HHO-flame, but unfortunately I dont have one. Will use propane. Thank you

added: calculation of moar-mass:

http://www.chemie.de/tools/ (http://www.chemie.de/tools/)


Regards

Kator01
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 20, 2013, 04:38:29 PM
@profitis,



@markdansie: why not try it yourself ? To experience something - even if you are at failure - is the most valuable thing which could happen to you.
I have a clear impression that profitis knows his stuff, I trust him

I build many things in the past and many were failures.

By exposing yourself to direct practical experience - if done with the right attitude - your consiousness gets in close contact with the matter or the process you create. It worth more than a million dollars... but I also know that this path is not for everyone to follow.


Kator01


Hi I agree with personal experience. I built my first cells in 2006 and probably about 20 others over the years. I have been fortunate to have visited experimenters in Australia, NZ, USA Europe, Africa, Canada and several Asian Countries. I was even more fortunate to have visited several companies, and last year worked with a company where we spent over 200,000 USD on professional testing laboratories in Australia and USA. Is this experiment worthwhile? Probably yes. I have respect for Profits thoughts and imagination however he may lack the experience. You learn a lot when you work full time with a team testing on engine and chassis Dyno's for weeks on end.
I have also had access to data on over 5,000 vehicle on road tests from various companies.
So I have been very lucky and I believe have a very good understanding of HHO, its effects and water splitting. Am I an expert? No way but the engineers, experimenters and scientists who have assisted are.
And here is some free advice. In every case I saw, science and the laws of science held up. In fact we were able in the end to predict results like effects on combustion, exhaust gases, engine performance and optimum gas levels with uncanny accuracy. Its all based on sound methodology and data. So when I see claims made without credible data but emotive BS like your Pakistani friend, then I become the TK of HHO. I never profess to have any technical or electrical knowledge, but in this field...I doubt I have many peers with that amount of broad experience.
So I guess after 6 years, thousand of hours of hands on testing , working with over 100 developers, scientist and engineers  and travelling on over 50 international flights, I guess I have some practical experience.
My final bit of advice is no one has ever had a self running water powered vehicle or self lopped generator without another energy source or fuel being involved. There is no data, evidence or third party credible evidence to support that there ever was. I can show dozens of attempted scams however.
Kind Regards and have fun experimenting
PS how many units you built Profitis?




Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: ramset on August 20, 2013, 04:43:56 PM
Kator01
Your attitude and presentation are inspiring..
A true Gentlemen.
@profitis
Thank you for offering the experiment and help... who knows perhaps we will learn something new?

Chet
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 20, 2013, 07:35:53 PM
@kator..yes start the experiment using one of those common variable voltage adaptors that you plug in the wall,try pulsed d.c.,try smooth d.c. Pulsed d.c. should give better result due to some kickback from the transformer,and allowing time for recombination of atomic hydrogen and oxygen into hydrogen molecules and oxygen molecules and their subsequent detatchment from the wet electrodes(this is important to this process).try low frequencies first to allow time for atomic recombination inbetween pulses.try using nichrome (from toasters) electrode pairs also,steel razor blades(may be easier to see the bubbles forming).our goal is to show that current passes through at under 1.23volts.use caustic soda preferencialy for this experiment.     
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 20, 2013, 07:52:30 PM
@markdansie,,ive done dozens of experiments mate..some with frightening results.if we understand the late great walther nernst,the text-book favorite on electrochemistry we can manipulate voltages.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 20, 2013, 08:49:39 PM
@ramset..thanks for the thanks sir..perhaps we will yes.the important thing to know is that all the electrode potentials listed in the text-books are under standard conditions.what happens when the conditions are non-standard?this is what we want to find out.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: bugler on August 20, 2013, 10:50:58 PM
Another water car that will never be manufactured. Same as the Philippine guy (don't remember his name now), same as Ismael Aviso who after several years has achieved nothing, etc.


No water car for us any time soon.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: truesearch on August 20, 2013, 11:13:49 PM
Once again I was wistfully hoping that something would be "real". . . 


I have an early 70s pickup with a big carborated engine that only makes 10mpg  :(


truesearch
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Kator01 on August 21, 2013, 12:30:17 AM
thanks to all these positive comment,

@markdansie: you have an impressive cycle of experience and my comment was not do question your profile because I appreciate the way you collect and present new technolgies on your website.
Something I have to report about fuel-booster-systems:
A friend of mine is a teacher at a small technical university in germany. They ( his students)  have done extensive tests ( including rig-test ) with 5 different car-types, injecting HHO from a drycell into the inlet ( without any regulative changes ) with 326 Watt power-consumption. After driving for 1 hour at the speed of 100 km/h power consumed:

326.6 Wh  = 326,6 x 1000 x 3600s = 1,175,760 Ws = Joule
[/font]
fuel saved: 1.7l  [/font]= 1.258 Kg  = 15,096 kWh

that is:

15,096 kWh  x 1000 x 3600s = 54,345,600 Ws= Joule

ROI - factor about 46.
energy saved includes the fact that the alternator had to supply the additional 326.6 Wh which in other words means a chemical load of 1 KWh which equals 0.1 liter of gas ( 0.1 ltr of liquid.. in order to avoid any misunderstandings) .

I know..I know: car-engines are only 35 % efficient and somehow the hho can do something here...

@profitis: true, everyone of us always acts in the range of his educational tunnel-view. How can one expect to
experience something extraodinary if he is dwelling in his tunnel with a limited view.
Only those who expect something beyond the classical scientific knowledge will get the chance to discover new things. It is widly known in quantum-mechanics that the universe is just waiting to manifest our ideas and thoughts if persued in a proper manner...but there is what I call "the competition of the different forces"..we have to take this into accout.
Now enough with philosophical thoughts.

I did the first test today. Pic attached. 1 molar solution of Sodium bicarbonat, temp 23.5 deg Ceslius.
Rods 14 cm length, 12 mm diameter, cleaned and rinsed with destilled water than I let them sit for 1 hour in the water.
Voltage applied first 0.5 V, current started with 1.8 mA then decreasing down to 0.6 mA, no Hydrogen on the right-hand rod. H-bubbles starting at 5 mA. For this I had to increase voltage to 0.8 V. Same process, current decreasing. I finished with 1.2 V, current starting with 12 mA ( 15 mW)..bublles formin, again decreasing down to 3 mA, bubbles stopped.
Supply-lines detached and immetiate measurement of voltage across the cell : 0.9 Volt !
This is standard-behaviour of the hydrogen-pressure. hydrogen-gas wants to get back to where it came from, thus pushing electrons back to the positive lead of the powersupply. Now at 0.3 volt ( ! ) above the cell-pressure-voltage bubbles form.

I will continue with NaOH or KaOH and focus on a stable current-condition, monitoring then the supply-voltage and the cell-pressure at this condition.

any suggestions @profitis ?

The best power-input condition one can get is by using a torus-transformer with about 5 to 8 secondary windings and one shottky-diode. It is much more efficient than any powersupply. They have incredible losses up  to 50 % while in current control-mode ( partial-load ). I have verfied this with a switched power-supply ( MRGN-9000 ) These power-supplies are only efficient ( 90-95 %) at full power-output.

To enhance the efficiency: interrupting power-input periodically and download the cell-energy at this moment into a super-cap... then continue charging the cell...somthing which is described in an old german physics-textbook

Regards
Kator01


Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 21, 2013, 01:44:17 AM
give me a high-5 @kator.we just proved that water was split at 0,5volts and the back-emf that formed from the surface area coverage of h2 and o2 caused increased resistance to current flow.if you had detached and measured after the 0.5v run you wouldv seen voltage and current coming out of the fuel cell.try using 2 kitchen steel knives  now @kator,its dificult to see bubbles on the carbon due to clinging adsorption.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 21, 2013, 01:55:52 AM
i think if we use steel knives in caustic soda the recombination and detatchment of atomic h2 and o2 should happen faster.make sure that the knives are degreased,washed properly @kator.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Kator01 on August 21, 2013, 02:05:21 AM
profitis,

yes I will do so and repeat the experiment at the 0.5-Level.
True, tiny air-bubbles are attached even without the power on. I have to let the rods rest for an hour and than clean them of the bubbles. The coal is porous and I would suspect that a voltage was there at the very beginning. i.e before I first switched on the power.
Too early this morning..will go to sleep..

Regards

Kator01
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 21, 2013, 02:25:53 AM
aha kator.porousity can be a friend and villain at same time when it comes to carbons.i agree,we must remember that any air in the hydrogen electrode has to discharge first electrolyticly before h2 begins to form,but no problem as that happens in seconds.we just pass current 4 a while,detach,measure fast,bingbading.rest well mate,l8ta
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 21, 2013, 08:40:37 AM
@markdansie,,ive done dozens of experiments mate..some with frightening results.if we understand the late great walther nernst,the text-book favorite on electrochemistry we can manipulate voltages.
And no data or hypothesis put up for peer review so how do you knwo what you are looking at?
Mark
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 21, 2013, 01:11:39 PM
faraday,s law @markdansie,cant get round it.every electron that passes must split water.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 21, 2013, 01:17:17 PM
its going to be realy interesting if we can visibly see the bubbles on the steel.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 21, 2013, 05:07:10 PM
@Profitis
so your last HHO cell you build what was it based on, i ma just curious and hat was the power in and gas out?
I been fortunate to work with people from Bob Boyce, many Stan replicators through to some very credentialed Russians scientists.
Just curious on your experimental and hands on experience. I was happy to share with you my experiences.
Kind Regards


PS go look up the work of Robert Dopp (he has a brilliant paper on a very novel way to split water)where he used a solution for the second electrode. Through his contacts we increased surface area on some other plates using nano coatings.
Mark





Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 21, 2013, 09:03:44 PM
send me dollars @markdansie and i,l show you my diamonds,they can make you rich.doppler is aware that the overpotentials of gaseous electrodes vary with electrolyte,surface area,and catalytic properties.whats more important than all of the above is the rate at which atomic h2 and o2 combine to form molecules and then detach from electrodes.this last property depends on the materials of electrodes.guys like aqua,meyer etc.are aware that it takes time for recombination to occur thus they used pulses.it does not take 1.23 volts to deposit one h2 and o2 bubble at a time on a 3m2.   
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Kator01 on August 21, 2013, 11:34:31 PM
Hello

hard to find but I could remember where:

http://www.magistrala.cz/freeenergy/media/pdf/economical-hydrogen-production-by-electrolysis-using-nano-pulsed-dc.pdf (http://www.magistrala.cz/freeenergy/media/pdf/economical-hydrogen-production-by-electrolysis-using-nano-pulsed-dc.pdf)

@profitis: have you seen this:

http://www.overunity.com/13651/now-offering-electron-extraction-coating-services/msg366025/#new (http://www.overunity.com/13651/now-offering-electron-extraction-coating-services/msg366025/#new)

TiO2 is an interesting material. It is mainly used now as a coating sprayed on surfaces ( Window-glass, photovoltaics, roomwall-paintings etc ) which then by artificial or uv-radiation of the sun creates radicals killing bacteria.
So we will have a technology of self-cleaning surfaces.
I then found one german company which offers an advanced version of this coating so that standard white light
triggeres this effect. Now this is what $um1 ( Todd ) has shown on the above link as the secret of the S.Meyer-Cell.

http://community.nsee.us/concepts_apps/compu_anime/TiO2_photocatalysis_tutorial_1.swf (http://community.nsee.us/concepts_apps/compu_anime/TiO2_photocatalysis_tutorial_1.swf)

I found a Paper of Poland scientists: it deals with Ag-doped TiO2
http://www.benthamscience.com/open/tomsj/articles/V004/SI0001TOMSJ/5TOMSJ.pdf (http://www.benthamscience.com/open/tomsj/articles/V004/SI0001TOMSJ/5TOMSJ.pdf)

http://phys.org/news/2013-08-durable-bacteria-killing-surface-hospitals.html#inlRlv (http://phys.org/news/2013-08-durable-bacteria-killing-surface-hospitals.html#inlRlv)

A german company here:
http://www.ags-muschert.de/titan-active-tio2.php (http://www.ags-muschert.de/titan-active-tio2.php)

and here the chemical structure formed by light falling on the coating ( unfortuately in german ) see pic at the right upper side: Bandmodel TiO2

http://www.titanprotect.de/deu/2_Technologie/2_Photokatalyse/91_Photokatalyse.html (http://www.titanprotect.de/deu/2_Technologie/2_Photokatalyse/91_Photokatalyse.html)

now compare this to what Todd had found in the S.Meyers-Patent.


Regards

Kator01

Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 22, 2013, 02:22:26 AM
send me dollars @markdansie and i,l show you my diamonds,they can make you rich.doppler is aware that the overpotentials of gaseous electrodes vary with electrolyte,surface area,and catalytic properties.whats more important than all of the above is the rate at which atomic h2 and o2 combine to form molecules and then detach from electrodes.this last property depends on the materials of electrodes.guys like aqua,meyer etc.are aware that it takes time for recombination to occur thus they used pulses.it does not take 1.23 volts to deposit one h2 and o2 bubble at a time on a 3m2.
My question was simple and you avoided the answer. I asked with your last HHO experiment what was the set up, and the data (electrical input in and gas output). Other useful bits would be type and spacing electrodes, materials for electrodes and chemical used in solution.
Robert , like everyone else only achieved about 85% efficiency. With our nano plates we had a football field in surface area and got 83%.
Stan of course cheated , and was caught red handed and was also charged with fraud which he could have defended if is showed a working device.
But back to you, please tell me in this HHO area your last practical experiment, the results and methodologies used. You speak with some authority on the matter but I suspect it is all theory. Go see some of the hydrogen forums in Europe they are years ahead of you. (you have not got to Ionization techniques yet or chaotic 2nd harmonic pulse combinations yet)
So please answer the questions.
Kind Regards
PS I support the experiments being conducted, I just doubt the expertise of the adviser
 
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 22, 2013, 02:25:50 AM
give me a high-5 @kator.we just proved that water was split at 0,5volts and the back-emf that formed from the surface area coverage of h2 and o2 caused increased resistance to current flow.if you had detached and measured after the 0.5v run you wouldv seen voltage and current coming out of the fuel cell.try using 2 kitchen steel knives  now @kator,its dificult to see bubbles on the carbon due to clinging adsorption.
so what was the efficiency....gas out (also purity) and power in ???????? PS go check out some university research in Southern USA 
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 22, 2013, 02:32:32 AM
Mark:

What ever happened to that Dr. (Of medicine) in Florida that was using a certain frequency of RF to split water?  It was on the national news where he could sustain a flame in a test tube using this device.  I have no idea of the power in for the transmitter. (Probably huge)  The gas out was continuous enough to keep the flame at the top of the test tube full of water burning.  This hit the news here about 2 years ago I believe.  Possibly longer ago.

Bill
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 22, 2013, 03:35:55 AM
@markdansie..if i take a fuel cell and connect it to an electrolysis cell like what kator made earlier,and i put a lightbulb along any point in the wires so that the voltage drops down to 0,5volts like in kators cell and then i let that same current as kator allowed through,bingo,we get all of our hydrogen and oxygen back due to faraday,s beautiful law,not some of our hydrogen but all of our hydrogen and oxygen.this energy efficiency is clearly way above 100%.its only voltage and rate that we are concerned about due to faraday law so if dopper had used a fuel cell to effect electrolysis instead of the mains,what efficiency would he obtain?i only have to show that current passed through an electrolysis cell at under 1.23volts(the voltage of a fuel cell)and im already in the lead.what can i demonstrate that kator didnt demonstrate?greater rate at same voltage,thats all.im no expert on pulsing current tho and i know that will help. 
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 22, 2013, 04:11:11 AM
Mark:

What ever happened to that Dr. (Of medicine) in Florida that was using a certain frequency of RF to split water?  It was on the national news where he could sustain a flame in a test tube using this device.  I have no idea of the power in for the transmitter. (Probably huge)  The gas out was continuous enough to keep the flame at the top of the test tube full of water burning.  This hit the news here about 2 years ago I believe.  Possibly longer ago.

Bill
I believe he died Bill and it was never more than 85% efficient. He used salt water.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 22, 2013, 04:40:50 AM
Mark:

Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 22, 2013, 04:41:39 AM
@markdansie..if i take a fuel cell and connect it to an electrolysis cell like what kator made earlier,and i put a lightbulb along any point in the wires so that the voltage drops down to 0,5volts like in kators cell and then i let that same current as kator allowed through,bingo,we get all of our hydrogen and oxygen back due to faraday,s beautiful law,not some of our hydrogen but all of our hydrogen and oxygen.this energy efficiency is clearly way above 100%.its only voltage and rate that we are concerned about due to faraday law so if dopper had used a fuel cell to effect electrolysis instead of the mains,what efficiency would he obtain?i only have to show that current passed through an electrolysis cell at under 1.23volts(the voltage of a fuel cell)and im already in the lead.what can i demonstrate that kator didnt demonstrate?greater rate at same voltage,thats all.im no expert on pulsing current tho and i know that will help.
Once again you avoided answering my question regards your practical experience with HHO cells. Have you ever built one or not?????? Please answer. If you did please describe it and the results.
There is no evidence or data to support you would get 100%.
Kind Regards
Mark
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Liberty on August 22, 2013, 04:43:53 AM
I believe he died Bill and it was never more than 85% efficient. He used salt water.

Mark,

Have you yet found anything more than 100% efficient?

Liberty
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 22, 2013, 05:20:35 AM
@liberty
Unfortunately in regards to water splitting and hho the answer is no. In my many years of testing , investigating and reviewing nothing ever panned out. There is still the urban myths people cling onto and this Pakistan claim is type of the Bullshit that is out there.
There are some brilliant people still researching in the area including main steam scientists and universities.


I am sure many good people in this forum good direct me to may claims and examples, but none ever have had third party verification, or data collected. Most the evidence is antidotes, Chinese rumors and just plain BS. Some of the bet research from the amateur experimenters is out of Europe with many good sites and forums.


Whats annoying me in this particular thread is people portraying themselves as experts, and never built a cell in their life. One of the people I admire the most George Wisemen who pioneered a lot of research in this area said on the Smart Scarecrow Show he never sold more than 200 units worldwide. Believe me their is a reason for that.


Kind Regards


PS Profitis....please let us all know the last cell you built and the results you got remember you claimed you have done dozens of experiments. Hey a photograph would be great. I attached one of a device that cracks the hydrogen from the fuel using heat and electric fields. This is at a government test facility in Australia and was part of a series of Chassis dyno tests. We tested the same device in engine labs is California the month before. We also tested it at the NREL labs in USA. We also tested several HHO devices as well .
 
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 22, 2013, 05:37:45 AM
@markdansie..affirmative,you give me the fuel cell,i,l attatch the electrolysis cell to match.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Liberty on August 22, 2013, 05:46:30 AM
@liberty
Unfortunately in regards to water splitting and hho the answer is no. In my many years of testing , investigating and reviewing nothing ever panned out. There is still the urban myths people cling onto and this Pakistan claim is type of the Bullshit that is out there.
There are some brilliant people still researching in the area including main steam scientists and universities.


I am sure many good people in this forum good direct me to may claims and examples, but none ever have had third party verification, or data collected. Most the evidence is antidotes, Chinese rumors and just plain BS. Some of the bet research from the amateur experimenters is out of Europe with many good sites and forums.


Whats annoying me in this particular thread is people portraying themselves as experts, and never built a cell in their life. One of the people I admire the most George Wisemen who pioneered a lot of research in this area said on the Smart Scarecrow Show he never sold more than 200 units worldwide. Believe me their is a reason for that.


Kind Regards


PS Profitis....please let us all know the last cell you built and the results you got remember you claimed you have done dozens of experiments. Hey a photograph would be great. I attached one of a device that cracks the hydrogen from the fuel using heat and electric fields. This is at a government test facility in Australia and was part of a series of Chassis dyno tests. We tested the same device in engine labs is California the month before. We also tested it at the NREL labs in USA. We also tested several HHO devices as well .

I have found through chemistry, that chemical bonds are very predictable and would seem to be subject to conventional reactions.  I have found otherwise in magnetics in special cases. 

Best wishes,

Liberty
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 22, 2013, 05:48:15 AM
@markdansie,,i,l even attatch the hydrogen and oxygen chambers of the fuel cell to the electrolysis cell for you lol.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 22, 2013, 05:57:45 AM
@markdansie,the inefficiencies of most of these hho pioneers is due to the losses in their actual power source thats why i insist on coupling to a fuel cell,chambers and all.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 22, 2013, 06:14:00 AM
@kator,ive done extensive research with semiconductors,yes TiO2 nanopowder has enormous surface area and would be highly conducive to water splitting,if we were to coat some of foreverlight.com,s panels with it and throw it in water we will get splitting,,in the dark!!
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 22, 2013, 07:42:51 AM
@markdansie..affirmative,you give me the fuel cell,i,l attatch the electrolysis cell to match.
So you avoided my question again. Earlier in the thread you said you completed lots of experiments. I ma trying to finout how many involved you building a HHO cell or splitting water.
Do you have a photo's? What is the architecture (plates)? What performance have you had? How many Cells have you build and tested? Is the data available? What was the gas analysis (TK was right many get fooled by water vapor had even nitrogen introduced by venturi effects)?
Have you done your homework on fuel cells? Dis you use Brute force? Did you use pulsed signals or harmonics?or harmonics.
Do you have a paper with the equations to support your current hypothesis and some evidence from your own experiments why this should work?
What is the specification of your cell you have. What is its current efficiency? We need to have baselines.
You said affirmative???? Does that mean you have cells, data, photo's any other evidence??????
You see I am about finding the truth and at the moment my BS meter is off the scale reading your posts. I do not mind the theory, discussions, but when you make claims and lead others on you better have the evidence.
Rosemary has created a vacancy and it appears your standing in to fill it.
You know TK. Bill, MH and dozens of others here are honest people. Many work hard as expeimenters. Above all liek with TK I never pretend to be 5% as qualified as he is, I know my limits. If I knew 2% of what MH did about science I would be pretty smart. And others like Pirate are decent experimenters who do a great job.....none of these people BS
Kind Regards

Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 22, 2013, 07:51:39 AM
@kator,ive done extensive research with semiconductors,yes TiO2 nanopowder has enormous surface area and would be highly conducive to water splitting,if we were to coat some of foreverlight.com,s panels with it and throw it in water we will get splitting,,in the dark!!
So how much hands on have you done?
What are your academic qualifications or did this research mean you squeeze in a couple of YouTube views between Sesame Street shows?
Many have use nano powders before. We conducted several experiments with nano powders and nano coated plates back 6 years ago.
 
Surface area does not equate in increased efficiency.

Yes they have solar cellsl doing 1 volt now just short of the 1.23 volts needed.


So rather than vague comments why do you not put up the detail. Forever light has not got enough photons to drive what you are suggesting and was attempted by many. In fact the Russians did some great work in this area.......go do some more research
Kind Regards
Mark
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 22, 2013, 07:57:03 AM
@Liberty
I have found through chemistry, that [color=rgb(27, 142, 222) !important]chemical bonds[/color] are very predictable and would seem to be subject to conventional reactions.  I have found otherwise in magnetics in special cases.  Best wishes,Liberty


You are correct. Using pulsed magnetic fields in the presence of particular types of Ferrous plates produces some very interesting results when it comes to water splitting.
In addition to this using magnetic fields to stimulate anodes and cathodes in a hydrogen environment is even more interesting as it produces electricity.
Kind Regards

Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: ramset on August 22, 2013, 02:42:35 PM
Mark
Why are you getting all up in Profitis Face and throwing a wet blanket on everything he says?
 
So much of what he says rings true with new directions in research ,why can't you just let
things progress in this experiment he is sharing with the very Skilled and knowledgable Kator01?
 
?
Thx
Chet
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 22, 2013, 05:28:01 PM
@markdansie..im going to start getting angry now lol!kator has done my demo for you to see. Please take two massive carbon electrodes,shove them into electrolyte and hook up their gas chambers to your fuel cell gas chambers and repeat kator,s demo.do you now still want to tell me that we are under 100% efficiency?if so please explain,use text-book laws please.surface area is everything,material makeup too,but kator,s carbon will do fine for demo.   
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 22, 2013, 05:47:37 PM
@markdansie..im going to start getting angry now lol!kator has done my demo for you to see. Please take two massive carbon electrodes,shove them into electrolyte and hook up their gas chambers to your fuel cell gas chambers and repeat kator,s demo.do you now still want to tell me that we are under 100% efficiency?if so please explain,use text-book laws please.surface area is everything,material makeup too,but kator,s carbon will do fine for demo.
Show me the data, perhaps some pics. Even a diagram might help wit ha step by step process. I think the biggest problem here is your claiming over 100%. You have nothing to back this up at this stage but as I said its a worthy experiment.
Mark

Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 22, 2013, 05:54:26 PM
Mark
Why are you getting all up in Profitis Face and throwing a wet blanket on everything he says?
 
So much of what he says rings true with new directions in research ,why can't you just let
things progress in this experiment he is sharing with the very Skilled and knowledgable Kator01?
 
?
Thx
Chet


i agree its a worthy experiment and has been done before.
My problem is is the broad statements without any substance. (which is tolerable)
But then the BS starts and if they get away with a little they tend to then try and get away with more.
I love these armchair people who claim practice experience but can never show data, photos or any other proof.
Kator01 I have no problems with and openly encourage him . I just caution him to be sure he knows the qualifications of the people he is taking advice form.


PS Profitis, you have been caught out BS and do not have anything to back your claims of expertise and experience. You are in my sights like Rosemary was with TK. I have 100% track record of success exposing BS. Just do not make claims you can not back up. You what makes it so hard to get any credibility in this field.


Kind Regards







Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 22, 2013, 06:00:54 PM
@markdansie..yes,foreverlight.com emits green light,that gives roughly 1volt.now lets coat it with a phosphor that upconverts green light into ultraviolet light,bangbading,problem solved(maybe 1percent efficiency but if its a warm night then its rate will speed up).we can also split hydrobromic acid into hydrogen and bromine for the new flow-cell with 1volt.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 22, 2013, 06:52:44 PM
@markdansie..yes,foreverlight.com emits green light,that gives roughly 1volt.now lets coat it with a phosphor that upconverts green light into ultraviolet light,bangbading,problem solved(maybe 1percent efficiency but if its a warm night then its rate will speed up).we can also split hydrobromic acid into hydrogen and bromine for the new flow-cell with 1volt.
You should go do some home work on this really, You will not even get a fraction of 1% unless you use a gaseous environment at about 100 bars. Anther company in USA won an award for proposing this, then it did not work. You need a certain amount of push to get anything above an operational threshold.. IE go try and charge an I pone with 100 MA.
Kind Regards
Mark
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Kator01 on August 23, 2013, 12:06:04 AM
Folks,

the discussion is getting too agressive, so I like to bring in some point here which I had already researched 2 years ago in order to straighten out the discussion:

as profitis mentioned:

surface-area is the key... but I might add.. only in addition with the work-function of the electrode-material because with a lower work-function we bring the voltage-level down.

Here we are, its expensive but we have to look for similar specifications:
http://huntingdonfusion.com/en/tungsten-electrodes/54-techweld-multi-strike-thoriumoxidfreie-wolfram-elektroden.html (http://huntingdonfusion.com/en/tungsten-electrodes/54-techweld-multi-strike-thoriumoxidfreie-wolfram-elektroden.html)

surface-area increases the current per square inch, work-function lowers the voltage. In addition :

the puls-method - as can be seen in the indian paper I posted before -  to avoid the build-up of the helmholz-barrier.

and a way ( I have not found it yet ) to remove the H-gas quickly from the electrode-surface.

Now another material: graphene

@markdansie: do you know the workfunction of graphene ( hexagonal carbon, thickness: one atomic layer ) ?

135 ±9 meV !!! ( milli-eV !!! ) ha... got it ?

german sientific paper here:

http://jahrbib.sulb.uni-saarland.de/frontdoor.php?source_opus=6508&la=de (http://jahrbib.sulb.uni-saarland.de/frontdoor.php?source_opus=6508&la=de)

So this might give you an impression of my modus operandi . After more than 30 years of research in the field of ZPE I do extensive research first ( myself) then built primary tests etc.

Whenever a person in a discussion gets more an more demanding ( number and facts ) I then get a certain impression.

If profitis or me would deliver the full data of what we found, what will you do then @markdansie ?

The path to follow in developing an efficient technique is layed out clear, but - as discussed with profitis in another thread - we need a budget to do it.
Why should I fiddle away with less successful methods if I know the path which offeres the best possible result so far ?

Here is the article a canadian citizen once sent me 5 years ago and I hope you can take it without feeling to get caught on this subject:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.aviation.military/_2JJLwBMjiE/yWEP3sftBPoJ (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.aviation.military/_2JJLwBMjiE/yWEP3sftBPoJ)

Regards

Kator01






Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 23, 2013, 02:45:15 AM
@Kator01
Yes you are right I have been overly aggressive on these posts so I will back down from further posts.
I like your experiment and admire yoru work.
I was reacting to bS being posted by someone else, but this is the wrong time and place to be discussing such issues.
my apologies
Mark
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 23, 2013, 02:51:20 AM
@ Kator01


As always show me the data and a good methodology of gathering it and I will always bow down to it.
String together a lot of data from various sources and string them together into some theory and I will admire the effort.
But it is always important to test such assumptions.


I will give you an example.
Many years ago I worked in fuel efficiency  research. The persons i worked for believed if we strung 3 or more technologies together we would get an accumulative effect.  Was good in theory but when it came to the tests it never panned out. Why?


 I really like what you are proposing , but show me the data that is generated from and actual experiment that is over 100% efficient, not just assumptions made in theory.


PS I know about graphene lol


Keep up the good work
Kind Regards
Mark



Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 23, 2013, 03:27:25 AM
exellent info @kator.we are definitly on the same wavelength.markdansie wants to see the layouts,which is understandable but we dont want others who are eyeing this thread  profiting while we do the work.ive given markdansie so many pointers,without diverging from text-books,that if he hasnt clicked on by now i dont think he wil.i gave him faradays law and a self-charging fuel cell experiment to do at home.that should be sufficient to trigger him to dive into experiments.true @kator,work function is definitely a role player.the important thing to understand is that your experiment that you did for us produced exactly 0.5 volts worth of adsorbed h2 + o2.if you had let it rest for a little while the atoms would combine into molecules and the back-emf wouldve subsided,allowing you to repeat the cycle,repeat,repeat,repeat.the time lag between repeats is the critical factor for rate.the materials that you use reduce time lags.carbon realy sucks but its good enuf for demo. 
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 23, 2013, 04:56:55 AM
@kator..im truly beginning to see the benefit of pulsed currents,im picturing in my mind how even a slight inductor backspike would cause some re-combination of adsorbed H2 and O2 into water giving a clean sweep of the electrodes surfaces to enable the next cycle.it seems one can actualy manipulate how much of a saturation one wants,then pull the rug out from under it.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 23, 2013, 05:09:11 AM
exellent info @kator.we are definitly on the same wavelength.markdansie wants to see the layouts,which is understandable but we dont want others who are eyeing this thread  profiting while we do the work


This is an open forum Overunity thread.  You are  starting to sound like Sterling Allan.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 23, 2013, 05:44:31 AM
indeed @markdansie..i,l give an arm,not a leg too.will you fill us in on the details of the magnetic field on the h2 electrode?
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Kator01 on August 23, 2013, 12:36:15 PM
@kator..im truly beginning to see the benefit of pulsed currents,im picturing in my mind how even a slight inductor backspike would cause some re-combination of adsorbed H2 and O2 into water .....

profitis,

did´nt tinman show a vid about his copper-zin-cells where he used the collaps-emf ( not

back-emf..it is something
different ) to regenerate the cells ?

I can not find it anymore.

Anyway I try to elaborate a circuit.. not so easy as one thinks.

Regards
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 23, 2013, 02:07:18 PM
indeed @markdansie..i,l give an arm,not a leg too.will you fill us in on the details of the magnetic field on the h2 electrode?
There are three streams of research in this area.
1. The first one is in Europe and I am under NDA. I assisted the researcher to obtain if I remember correctly around $13,000 for further experiments. They are still in progress and getting not what we expected, but a whole lot of other areas to now further research. It uses oscillating magnetic fields for splitting water. Requires some pretty cool preconditioning but requires no electricity after initiated
.
2. The second is in the USA. I have distributed to a few people here a couple of videos of that in operation. That used a non pulsed magnetic field with electrodes in a hydrogen environment. Several people are in various stages of reproducing that experiment and if we get confirmation that will really open up some doors. This does not make hydrogen only electricity. We are not sure if hydrogen is consumed in the process as of yet.


3. The final one is a variation of the nuclear spin device. Will get back to that next year


Kind Regards



Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: tinman on August 23, 2013, 04:08:47 PM
profitis,

did´nt tinman show a vid about his copper-zin-cells where he used the collaps-emf ( not

back-emf..it is something
different ) to regenerate the cells ?

I can not find it anymore.

Anyway I try to elaborate a circuit.. not so easy as one thinks.

Regards
You mean this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64EDo4OB_L0
It kept on running until the water leaked out of my(no so well sealed)cells,and turned the MDF to paper mush lol.
Anyway,you will be seeing a better version of this in the Pulse motor build off-no leak's this time.
This video was actualy the first time Mark contacted me via email-so it got his interest anyway lol.
The theroy was proven to be sound,and the plate deterioration was almost nil on the JT over 7 weeks running. Mark also has a water powered torch,and who know's-maybe it has somthing similar to this incorperated into it,to make it run so long on one cell?.
But there is a better liquid to use other than water,and increases each cell voltage to almost 2.1 volt's,where as with water,this type of cell only produces around .8 volts.
But rather than just post theroies and make claims-i prefer to show actual working devices. This is something some others here should try once or twice. It's called-putting your money where your mouth is.If it's not yours to share,then fair enough. But i see many claims made by a few here that have nothing to back up said claims with-just talk,talk,talk.
Sorry guys,but im with Mark on this one-show us a working device.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 23, 2013, 04:51:17 PM
@kator yes i think tinman is on the money there. If you were to take a zinc-copper couple in acid,and put an inductor circuit of some sort between them as your bridge then the much-hated buildup of hydrogen back-emf-polarization can be alleviated to some degree by the back-spikes,cleansweeping the copper surface from atomic hydrogen,allowing for some renewed surface area.it would work better under alkaline conditions due to faster seperation of h2 bubbles from wetting ability.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 23, 2013, 05:49:12 PM
@markdansie..if a stationary magnet effects the electrode potential of a hydrogen electrode then yes,we can build a cell with two h2 electrodes.some quick googling indicates it does indeed.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 23, 2013, 09:56:06 PM
@markdansie..if a stationary magnet effects the electrode potential of a hydrogen electrode then yes,we can build a cell with two h2 electrodes.some quick googling indicates it does indeed.
You wont find any of these on Google but I am glad you are starting to do some homework. You might be on the right track now
Some really good stuff is all underground and as far away from the net as possible.
Mark



Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Kator01 on August 24, 2013, 01:14:27 AM
No easy I agree:

again : a german female scientist

first entry under the Header: Research Topics and Projects
http://www.mfd.mw.tu-dresden.de/mfd/index.php/mitarbeiter/eckert-kerstin (http://www.mfd.mw.tu-dresden.de/mfd/index.php/mitarbeiter/eckert-kerstin)

I will write her where to find the document since there is no existing active link

Here another one, however he uses 3 combinations
http://images3.freshpatents.com/pdf/US20120097550A1.pdf (http://images3.freshpatents.com/pdf/US20120097550A1.pdf)


Regards

Kator01


Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: ramset on August 24, 2013, 02:16:59 AM
Mr Kator01
You sir are head and shoulders above the noise,It is profoundly obvious we will never stop  improving upon the Science,
The curiosity that has been imbedded in our DNA by our creator will only be quenched but for a moments time as we continue on this never ending search for What ifs and Why nots.
 
What a gift....
 
All things are possible My friend!
 
Thx
Chet
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 24, 2013, 03:54:55 AM
exellent @kator and @ramset.clean clear evidence of electrical potential alteration by magnets.theres even more info on magnetism effects on oxygen electrodes as O2 is actualy paramagnetic.wish i could post links from my phone but i,l have to use my voice.maybe i can but i havent figured it.anyway i think this thread evolved into a revolutionary turning point since it started,truly shedding light on the  various claims for water systems but more importantly on a new kind of physics.we clearly see the need to re-evaluate many old ideas.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 24, 2013, 04:35:46 AM
@markdansie..starting to do homework?you got no idea brother.these principals extend beyond gaseous electrodes,waaay beyond.ive got systems composed of just ions
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 24, 2013, 04:44:36 AM
@markdansie..starting to do homework?you got no idea brother.these principals extend beyond gaseous electrodes,waaay beyond.ive got systems composed of just ions

Sounds great.  Why not show us?  Make a video, post a link, etc.  You don't have to give away anything you want to keep private...just post something that you have made that works.  I would love to see it.  I am all about learning.

Thanks,

Bill
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 24, 2013, 04:45:35 AM
@markdansie..starting to do my homework?you got no idea brother.these principals extend beyond gaseous electrodes,waaay beyond.ive got systems composed of just ions
You mean you have theorized on systems, you do not actually have one. As you know all the practical experimenters here including TK, Tinman, Pirate and many others actually show video,s drawings and pictures of their work.
An those who do not choose to be public also send me the same but under NDA. It has struck me that you have only sent words.


I am glad you are unveiling some excellent research. The real good stuff originated out of Canada and Holland.


best of luck on this one and you may find a few good things to enhance everyone's understanding


Kind Regards

Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 24, 2013, 04:48:32 AM

Some really good stuff is all underground and as far away from the net as possible.
Mark

I don't disagree with what you say here but...it does kind of suck.  If there are great technologies being worked on, without giving away the store they could at least post something of their directions of research.  Why are they underground?  Competition?  Industrial spies?  It would be very encouraging I would think to get at least a little publicity about some of this research.

Or, are they underground so they do not get hounded by Sterling?  Now this I can understand.

Bill
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 24, 2013, 04:50:57 AM
Sounds great.  Why not show us?  Make a video, post a link, etc.  You don't have to give away anything you want to keep private...just post something that you have made that works.  I would love to see it.  I am all about learning.

Thanks,

Bill


We both know that is not going to happen. Check out all of his other posts in the other threads he is just trying to trawl to cash in on something and will never share. I like his thinking and ideas, but he lacks practical experience. Also he is continuously claiming over 100% for this that and the other.
I think he has a lot of potential, but not sure about his motives.
Mark
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 24, 2013, 05:02:07 AM
lol @markdansie,is that why i approach a one mark (darth) dansie of all people,the skeptic,for a salary??! Humourous indeed
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 24, 2013, 05:08:22 AM
@pirate.im not going to show shit.i demand a salary from a one mark(darth) dansie,skeptic,then let him decide if he wants to show you my shit.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 24, 2013, 05:15:40 AM
@pirate.im not going to show shit.i demand a salary from a one mark(darth) dansie,skeptic,then let him decide if he wants to show you my shit.

OK, well that is, of course, your choice.  It is also my choice to believe that you don't have sh*t.  Those that have it, show it, those that don't, talk about having it.  Welcome to Overunity.com, an OPEN SOURCE Energy Research forum.  Perhaps you should post over at "Theories That Sort Of Make Sense But I Can't Prove It Because I Never Tried It.com."  It is a new site.

Bill
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 24, 2013, 05:35:47 AM
@pirate.,,quit whining.i already put a vid up and explanation up,somewhere.or do you want cake with it,some lapdancers too?
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: tinman on August 24, 2013, 07:31:16 AM
@pirate.,,quit whining.i already put a vid up and explanation up,somewhere.or do you want cake with it,some lapdancers too?
@Profitis
Let me get this straight. You will show nothing until you get cash-right?
It's getting that deep,soon you will need help getting out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm8-J1SUiBI
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: tinman on August 24, 2013, 07:38:11 AM
@ Profitis
Just post one of your OU device's-it dosnt matter which one. And even if found not to be OU,you will have lost no respect from others.
I thought i had a device that was OU,and so i posted it here for others to test. It turned out i was wrong,but i still keep trying-like most of us here do.
But we are realy over the endless "blah blah".
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 24, 2013, 07:44:02 AM
@pirate.im not going to show shit.i demand a salary from a one mark(darth) dansie,skeptic,then let him decide if he wants to show you my shit.


I am an open public target and am happy to receive criticism. More than a few members of this community have taken me to task at times (they were right). However please have respect for people like Bill who is one of the most decent people on the planet,  and Tinman who has everyone's respect and admiration not only here but in other circles as well.


As far as show me the money demands, i always have a show me the goods first (under NDA) Given 99.9% of all overunity claims have proven false in the past you need to have something pretty convincing. I have d=seen people in your country taken for hundreds of thousands of dollars by the free energy scam artists.  One even fooled the TUV engineer. Soto convince me........show me the data.
Kind Regards as always
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: ramset on August 24, 2013, 12:49:19 PM
Mark
you are the Tip of a spear called commerce,looking for products and innovations for your own personal gain .
 
An NDA?
perhaps a 10 ft pole ?
 
 
Chet
 
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 24, 2013, 01:57:07 PM
@Ramset


I leave it up to the innovators and inventors if they want to go public with anything. So it is they who want an NDA.
Sometimes it is extended to a non compete. They are legal hard to enforce so in many ways it shows intent.
The reasons they want non disclosure vary for a number of reasons.
1. they want to protect their IP
2. They want to protect their identities (I am one of the few here that uses his real name)
3. Not to be embarrassed if we test what they have and find it failed or they stuffed up(most of the time)
4. To stop people bugging them (like Sterling always wants to cut a deal)


In this case if Profitis wants to show me something under NDA that's fine. I never pay to look at something. I have one inventor at the moment wants over 10 million for a look inside a device.


I normally do not charge for my advice to the many experimenters etc, unless there is a lot of travel or other expenses. If its a company I do be it a technology company or a investment company.


On this forum I share experiences and like with Rosemary Ainslie help organised a public demonstration of her technology with qualified people. If its my own knowledge and experience I freely share.  If it is some one else IP they asked to protect that is their right. I never judge.
But let me ask you, if someone sunk in 15 million dollars or sacrificed thirty years of their life they have a right to choose if they want to give it away or not.


As far as under the radar projects, some are people who do not want the like of Sterling bugging them, some involve a lot of money. However the majority are interested in bettering mankind.


My role is often to disseminate information which I am pleased to say often results in productive introductions. Just this week I introduced Tinman to an inventor who had been working on his own for many years. I am sure they will become great friends and both benefit. I will assist in other advice (non technical) and often I ma just the guy they talk to rather than talking to the wall. To people like this I give my time freely and always will.


I am no hero or angel, personally investigating these technologies has cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and away from family, so I may be a little jaded when I see BS. Fro that I am sorry and acted unprofessionally.


I hope that clarifies a few items, happy to ask any questions.


Kind Regards

Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: ramset on August 24, 2013, 02:42:43 PM
Mark
It has been my experience in life that temptation chases every man ,some are more benevolent then others however ultimately we all must eat?
 
Thats where this part needs focus [temptation].
 
When you make your living putting people together to make them or yourself money
you are the Fox in the hen house at an open source forum..........
 
To be beyond reproach would require an attitude such as Stephan Hartman has... no "business interest" or connections to industry and the "profit" machine.
I am not saying he is perfect ,what I am saying is this needs to be a Service, a calling to complete dedication with no "strings" attached!
 
Those Strings quickly become a web...........
 
 
 
thx
Chet
 
 
 
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 24, 2013, 03:33:10 PM
@markdansie,personaly i wouldnt want an n.d.a.,just the 2year salary,collabaration of research with whomever.if the interested party wanted an n.d.a. i would be happy to oblige.n.d.a,s are worthless most of the time anyways in my opinion.of course i would gladly show the party the goods,knowing that they will keep me very closeby for the next 2years non-stop,and probably sign me on for another 2years after that.ive contributed already a great deal to the quest for overunity here,e.g.explaining clearly the secrets of self-sustaining gaseous electrodes.judging by the number of inbox congratulations i get from viewers i know i have given something worthwhile here and will continue to do so.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 24, 2013, 03:51:47 PM
@ramset..i agree 100% regarding stefan hartman and i can tell you that he himself is totaly openminded to the limitations of certain 'laws' of physics.ive noticed particulary the germans in general have a very sharp knowledge on whats going down in unspoken realities and many are truly heroic in my opinion.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: ramset on August 24, 2013, 06:57:16 PM
Sigh........
Profitis
The Germans are not the only ones with exotic Engineering Feats
 
http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/tiny-apeel (http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/tiny-apeel)
 
Taking the Car to work in England.........
thx
Chet
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 25, 2013, 02:53:14 AM

 
When you make your living putting people together to make them or yourself money
you are the Fox in the hen house at an open source forum..........
 
[size=78%] [/size]
thx
Chet


i do not profit in anyway from the introductions, other than  building up networking. Normally it is for technical help or other advice. Sometimes some great friendships have been formed. many inventors and experimenters work in isolation and just want to talk to people who they can trust. That is hard to find.
Its ab it like when I meet at a conference people who we often form great friendships and benefit from information provided by each other. Rarely do I do anything for business reasons in forums.
In Profitis case here he wants to profit  from the information and does not want to share.his own, just take from others.he wants me to employ him, but has nothing to show even under NDA. So what am I to do.
Kind Regards

Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 26, 2013, 12:52:10 AM
no @markdansie.im willing to go all the way.lights,cameras,publicity,action.do you have the power to dispense or organise a salary and do you have the ability to organise fast-pace research&development. do you have the will to do such unusual things.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: ramset on August 26, 2013, 03:16:29 AM
PROFIT IS
 
Thats what he does.......
 
A match made in heaven!!
 
Good luck on the "Networking" excursion which you are about to embark on!
 
 
Thx
Chet
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 26, 2013, 04:20:57 AM
@ramset..i have some faith in markdansie.let him send the n.d.a. Let him make a  story of it if he still wants to.i want a story.a big story
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 26, 2013, 04:23:43 AM
@ramset..i have some faith in markdansie.let him send the n.d.a. Let him make a  story of it if he still wants to.i want a story.a big story

It is just that... a "story" and Mark has heard plenty of those already. Haven't we all?

Best of luck to you on whatever it is that you think you might be doing.

Bill
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: tinman on August 26, 2013, 04:33:03 AM
PROFIT IS
 
Thats what he does.......
 
A match made in heaven!!
 
Good luck on the "Networking" excursion which you are about to embark on!
 
 
Thx
Chet
Cant see that happening chet lol.
Some just dont like the "no BS" people like Mark,simply because they know they will catch them out.
Now what profitis wants is to be setup for reserch and development,where as people like us first show a working device(known as a prototype),and then we find the funds for reserch and development.
Would you buy a vehicle unseen and untested?-not even a pic of said vehicle?.
Why would profitis offer me $10,000 to build the karpen pile battery,when he could spen $500.00,and build it him self?-dont tell me you dont question that???.

TOOOOO much blah blah blah,and not enough building to prove concept,and im done with it.
There are those here(and on other forums) that you listen to,and know are there to help(without the want for cash),and there are those that are nothing but endless talk,that will contribute nothing to this free energy comunity, other than to fill up a thread with nothing but unfounded theoreticle claims,and armchair physics.
When you have been in the game long enough(like Mark),you can sniff out the BS a mile away.
Theoreticle build's are like theoreticle money in your pocket-you cant purchase anything at the store with money that just isnt there,unless ofcourse you just want to buy some theoreticle goodies.But when you get home,you have exactly what you left with--a whole lot of nothing.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 26, 2013, 04:56:14 AM
@tinman sometimes just one spark is all it takes brother.no disrespect,ive seen enough to know what im talking about.@pirate a story indeed.non-fiction part of the library,but thanks anyway.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 26, 2013, 10:34:23 AM
no @markdansie.im willing to go all the way.lights,cameras,publicity,action.do you have the power to dispense or organise a salary and do you have the ability to organise fast-pace research&development. do you have the will to do such unusual things.
go look up my CV sometime lol
I do and can, but I do not deal with vaporware, unless you have a couple of PH'ds and a stellar research career
kind regards
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: tinman on August 26, 2013, 12:01:23 PM
@tinman sometimes just one spark is all it takes brother.no disrespect,ive seen enough to know what im talking about.@pirate a story indeed.non-fiction part of the library,but thanks anyway.
Ok ,lets do this.
You provide the spark,and i'll get the fire burning.
You give me the detailed plans for the karpen pile battery (including schematic),and i will fork out the money for the materials and build to your specifications.
This couldnt come at a better time,as the pulse motor build off has just started-and i always do a build along side all the contestant's.
I would be more than happy to put forth the worlds first "OU" pulse motor at the end of the build off. And i would even tell you to keep your $10,000 you offered me to do it.
If it work's,i will also put your name to the design on the various radio show's that we will be on after the build off is finnished-Mark knows this to be true,and you have it here in writing. This would get your career of to a flying start,and make you the money you so seek.
If you wish to keep the schematic off of the forum,then my email is sidewinder350@westnet.com.au  You can email them to me at that address,and the details remain with us until the device is working.

So what do you say profitis, interested?
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 26, 2013, 03:52:39 PM
Hi Profitis and Tinman,
Having tested the key components of a Karpen pile in the Utah labs last year, you have to use extremely high purity lab standard metals. These are not cheap. If you have any impurities then you will see a galvanic reaction.
The following is test criteria and rational that will be required to determine if the device is either a battery or environmental energy harvesting device. It is not an overunity device.
1. You will need to test it in a Fardays's cage to rule out any EMF or RF influences.
2. I also suggest you do your testing in a hard vacuum.
3. You will need a set of scales to about 5 decimal places per gram to weight any consumption of materials or electrolyte.
4. You will need to check the metallurgy with a full analysis after a predetermined time amount of time.
5. You should also conduct at same time of the metallurgy tests have a detailed analysis of the gases sampled in the container and the electrolyte.You should also run some tests in a controlled environment where you have a static temperature and variable temperature runtime comparisons.
6. You should also get some high quality thermocouples to measure any cooling effects the device may have on the surrounding environment.


That is for starters, anything less would result in an inconclusive test.


Just some notes:
1. There are two basic theories:
     a. It is a battery that will last for many years as it has such a low load on it.
     b. It is a thermal siphon.
2. You can treat certain materials through heat and electrical polling to slowly release electricity over decades
3. You can get a used Nissan leaf battery after its effective life and it will run for decades without recharging producing a modest amount  of power (many times more than a Karpen Pile Battery). This would be at a fraction of the price.


My personnel conclusion after having run experiments first hand is very well expressed by Andrew Wiggin in a post on another forum discussing the subject:
This is a simple primary battery. Referring to it as a thermocouple or thermopile is misdirection, and there's certainly no need for zero point energy or 'quantum' effects. It's the same thing you could do with alternating disks of copper, zinc, and paper, in a bath of vinegar, but more durable. Some folks out there may remember doing things like that in grade school science class, if you had a fun teacher. [/size]You could do this with any two metals, and just about any electrolyte. In most cases such a battery degrades quickly, as the metal disks react with the electrolyte even when no electrons are flowing. Early batteries of this type were called 'plunge' batteries, because you 'plunged' the battery into the electrolyte when you needed electricity, and lifted it back out when you were done, to keep it from dissolving. This battery has cleverly worked around that by using metals that don't react quickly with the electrolyte.In this case, if the article is to be believed, it looks like the metals are gold and platinum, and the electrolyte is sulfuric acid. I think this is plausible. Both gold and platinum dissolve only very slowly in acids unless under extreme oxidizing conditions, in which case an oxidizing agent like fuming nitric acid or concentrated hydrogen peroxide oxidizes the metal and then the oxides dissolve in the acid. Those conditions aren't present in this example, so these metals are relatively inert in these conditions, and the reaction is very slow. It looks like this battery has a fair amount of cells, though I couldn't really find an image clear enough to count them. That makes coming up with a reaction rather difficult. Assuming that they're accurately reporting the 'one volt' output, (exactly one volt?) there are some places where gold and platinum are close enough to each other in the electrochemical series to make a one volt battery with twenty or thirty cells plausible. Without the battery to study, the exact construction and reaction are going to remain a mystery, and it doesn't sound like the museum has any interest in letting this be studied.It sounds like they're measuring the electrons flowing from the cell with some sort of ballistic galvomometer arranged as a motor. These draw very little current, and even then the article implies that the battery has to recharge between turns of the motor, so it has a mechanism that turns it off after each swing. This is consistant with the idea that this battery operates by very slow reactions. I see that some folks have already brought up the oxford electric bell. This is the same sort of battery, in that it has electrodes in very unreactive conditions. In that case, the electrodes are probably something quite far apart on the electrochemical series like copper and silver, and they're thin, so that there can be lots and lots of them. Similar examples have hundreds or thousands of layers. The low reactivity conditions are achieved by it being a 'dry pile' in which the electrolyte is at a very very low concentration. If I recall, the oxford electric bell produces a fairly high voltage at almost unmeasurable current. It's basically a source of 'static electricity' to run a small 'franklin's bell'. You can run a franklin's bell from the current that leaks from the screen of a television; they don't draw much current at all. The low reactivity conditions, combined with the low current draw mean that these things run 'forever'. No mystery here, and no practical power source either. You'd have trouble making either one of these light an LED.




Kind Regards
Mark
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 27, 2013, 05:45:20 AM
no phd,s here @markdansie but i,m going to have to correct you,nobody can or will prove me wrong : karpen is galvanic but not the galvanic you suggest.sorry to let you down but you wont find any correlation of faradaic current and dissolved metals under any circumstances.nor will you find any correlation of power/second and the required temperature difference needed to create it.you dont need gold, 2 platinum electrodes will do same thing.sensitive chemical tests to look for dissolved metals will come out negative you dont need a mass scale.it doesnt work under argon,helium,or nitrogen. the text-books say the metals dont react and they dont react.a nissan battery wont go well with an ipod but an ipod sized battery will.im not particulary concerned wether people think my device is overunity or not but i am concerned with commercial viability so any r&d has to focus on that.if you are willing to focus on its viability im willing to co-operate.p.s. i dont want any mention of the word overunity in public if the device meets your standards.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 27, 2013, 06:08:26 AM
oh,i forgot.neither gold nor platinum dissolves in the powerful oxidizer nitric acid under any circumstances @ markdansie.a complexing ion has to be present eg.CI-. Btw commercial grade metals will do equaly nice as pure metals,impurity traces are oxidized out the surfaces(if they react) exposing pure metals quickly.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on August 27, 2013, 07:09:46 AM
oh,i forgot.neither gold nor platinum dissolves in the powerful oxidizer nitric acid under any circumstances @ markdansie.a complexing ion has to be present eg.CI-. Btw commercial grade metals will do equaly nice as pure metals,impurity traces are oxidized out the surfaces(if they react) exposing pure metals quickly.
That we can agree on, it depends on how accurate you want to be. The reason for the detail is we are dealing with such a low power output device, you know possible microwatts costing some large chump change.
You made some pretty bold statements about the noble metals never reacting, i would rather let the data to tell me, however I respect your opinion.
Kind Regards

Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 27, 2013, 06:19:20 PM
and i respect your opinion mark.i shouldve just said to you, take two same O2 electrodes and change the O2 concentration on one and see if the text-books are right in predicting a voltage across them but ok im getting some idea of your methadologies in dealing with such things,which must of course be stringent.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: profitis on August 27, 2013, 06:25:27 PM
@tinman..i,d be happy to help you with that project.no need to go underground tho.im gona just calculate the best substitutes for Au and Pt.
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: adeem on May 04, 2018, 10:29:11 PM
it stupid as hell.... in pakistani politics everything is dirty. Just watching current affairs we can see where we are going. Wish we get more smart people in Pakistan who can educate our people.

-Best
Ady

Signature
https://www.pakshows.pk/current-affairs
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: stevie1001 on May 09, 2018, 11:45:05 AM
@liberty
Unfortunately in regards to water splitting and hho the answer is no. In my many years of testing , investigating and reviewing nothing ever panned out. There is still the urban myths people cling onto and this Pakistan claim is type of the Bullshit that is out there.
There are some brilliant people still researching in the area including main steam scientists and universities.


I am sure many good people in this forum good direct me to may claims and examples, but none ever have had third party verification, or data collected. Most the evidence is antidotes, Chinese rumors and just plain BS. Some of the bet research from the amateur experimenters is out of Europe with many good sites and forums.


Whats annoying me in this particular thread is people portraying themselves as experts, and never built a cell in their life. One of the people I admire the most George Wisemen who pioneered a lot of research in this area said on the Smart Scarecrow Show he never sold more than 200 units worldwide. Believe me their is a reason for that.


Kind Regards


PS Profitis....please let us all know the last cell you built and the results you got remember you claimed you have done dozens of experiments. Hey a photograph would be great. I attached one of a device that cracks the hydrogen from the fuel using heat and electric fields. This is at a government test facility in Australia and was part of a series of Chassis dyno tests. We tested the same device in engine labs is California the month before. We also tested it at the NREL labs in USA. We also tested several HHO devices as well .


Hi Mark,


I do not agree with that statement....
You seen my cell....


cheers
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: markdansie on May 09, 2018, 11:59:00 AM
Hi Steve
yes indeed you built many cells and I consider you one of the leading experts in this field.


However I have never seen a cell yest that was overunity, but I have seen many that consume metal or other ingredients to assist in the hydrogen production. So I stand by the rest of my statement.


Happy to be corrected


PS I still follow water powered car claims. i just put this article on the blog a couple of days ago. One of my friends went to the demonstration on April 25


http://revolution-green.com/walter-jenkins-water-powered-car/





Kind Regards
Mark


 

Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: stevie1001 on May 09, 2018, 12:54:39 PM
Hi Steve
yes indeed you built many cells and I consider you one of the leading experts in this field.


However I have never seen a cell yest that was overunity, but I have seen many that consume metal or other ingredients to assist in the hydrogen production. So I stand by the rest of my statement.


Happy to be corrected


PS I still follow water powered car claims. i just put this article on the blog a couple of days ago. One of my friends went to the demonstration on April 25


http://revolution-green.com/walter-jenkins-water-powered-car/ (http://revolution-green.com/walter-jenkins-water-powered-car/)





Kind Regards
Mark


Just wanted to hi to you.
I agree with yr power input vs gas output question to this builder.
As you seen in my build, there where some other variables involved.
This builder states about special electrodes....
Maybe the calculation should be made differently because the the real proces is different.


I checked your published article.
Buggys are populair in this line of business... ;-)
Title: Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
Post by: Belfior on May 09, 2018, 01:36:25 PM
have you come across Stanley Meyer's technique on how to pulse the water to extract HHO? I know he used circular electrodes submerged, but was there a certain amplitude, pulse rate or frequency?

Then just a couple of side notes:

We already run our cars with hydrogen. It is just called hydrocarbons. Carbon and other shit is ejected with the smoke and hydrogen is coming out as water droplets from your exhaust pipe. Why we are not using water in our cars is that water is fucking cheap. It is pretty hard to justify all the infrastructure and 1,5€ per liter price for gasoline if we could use plain water. We are just told it is so much easier to use fuels to get hydrogen and that is just a 5 trillion dollar lie. We could have clean energy even now without any pollution, but people need their money.

You talked about this "long lasting battery". I believe there is zero energy in a battery. You can pretty much smash it and there is no explosion. What it has is two opposing poles or potentials. When you create path between them the energy is provided by Nature, that is trying to equalize these two potentials to the same level. That is why the battery raises from the dead when you leave it alone. So you could go forever with a battery if you take a small current out through a coil and maybe light an LED and then cut the power and put the back-EMF spike back into the battery. You could do like a Figuera device just with batteries