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Author Topic: The quest for achieving overunity from HHO or structured water gas  (Read 1509 times)

Offline ChileanOne

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Introduction:


I created an account in this forum well over a decade ago (12 years at least, perhaps) At the time I was involved in the notorious magnet motor claim of Steorn, but I had been interested and always keeping tabs and following as closely as I could all sorts of exotic or anomalous claims since 1989 after Pons and Fleischmann announcements and the debacle that ensued for them after that.


During my time following Steorn (which I did to the bitter end, member of the SKDB and under NDA), and towards the end of the more public part of the Steorn Blunder, I got aware of the also very controversial claims of Italian inventor Andrea Rossi, so I started following its developments as actively as I could, until it ended in another set of blunders and embarrassment in general. I sort of fell in a kind of free energy depression that started in 2017 and lasted until a couple of months ago when I started to visit again LENR related forums I am member of, and almost as a happy coincidence the recent reports of Mizuno work in LENR with excellent results and a relatively simple set up have provided me with positive reinforcements to regain my enthusiasm for the exotic energy conundrum with renewed strength.


During this personal free energy renaissance I have been particularly interested in the activities of one of the most open groups involved in the research of LENR, known as The Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project (MFMP) whose’s more visible member is Bob Greenyer, a prolific, clever, outspoken and very unsettling for the status quo activist that has managed to create and share an impressive amount of evidence regarding the potential relationship of LENR with the so called EVOs as popularized by the late Kenneth Shoulders.


The LENR - EVO - HHO connection:


The last trip of the MFMP was a compressed one week stance in the facilities of Dr. Omasa, famous Japanese creator of the so called Ohmasa gas, which is produced by an electrolysis system that vibrates the fins during the electrolysis, and creates a gas that remains dissolved in the water and does not scape. It is theorized that this gas is a flustered water molecules gas that has a lot of unusual properties and can transmute radioactive materials to render them harmless (which is the aim of Dr. Omasa for offering his technology as a help to clean the Fukushima wreckage).


I have much more to add but I started this thread on my phone and has been difficult to type so I will stop here and get back later, but I want to finish this by saying that the key to overunity in so called HHO generators is to provide cavitation where the EVOs manifest and energize the water into clusters that later can cause overunity when using this structured water gas as fuel.


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Offline ChileanOne

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Re: The quest for achieving overunity from HHO or structured water gas
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2019, 11:31:50 PM »
During the MFMP visit to Dr. Omasa's facilities, they performed several experiments, attempted to measure the temperature of the flame by optic means, and also took samples of materials exposed to the flame. They also got several of the used fins of the hydrolizers,

MFMP has performed several visits to people that has obtained exotic results, even has met and adquired materials from John Hutchinson, but also from an entrepreneur in India, the ECCO fuel, and even from the SAFFIRE Project. They have been very diligent in contacting, arranging visits and experiments with many claimants to test their claims.

They have found a series of anomalies that leave tracks in the materials, collectively called "Strange radiation" marks. They looked for signs of those marks in the Ohmasa gas reactor fins, and they found those traces.

There is a rather "old" paper, but very interesting, that already in 2011 made the connection between HHO and the possibility of this process to be creating more than H and O gas, but something more exotic and also energetic. I attach the paper which explores the relationship between water electrolyzers and the so called "zero point energy". The highlight of this paper is that it lists the characteristics that are shared by the more energetic HHO gases, and Ohmasa gas reactors has all these characteristics and the produced gas is one of the gases that is heavier than air and can even be liquified at atmospheric pressure at -178°C.
Here are some of the MFMP videos during the visit to Omasa's Laboratories:
Ohmasa's vibration reactors for production of the gas (you can see here that the gas is produced and remains dissolved in the water, this is at least for me, very astonishing), you can also see he applies only 75W to vibrate a big amount of water creating vortexes in it, and he uses 1070 watts to electrolyze the water while vibrating it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAlhKaWWzLM

When inspected closely, many cavitation marks were found in the vibration fins of the reactor:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dcc3a37f1ca85e0366a0e8f4056420b806a5747632232dda6ab0b4369e055dbb.jpg?w=800&h=604https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/74b69c18f68ad0cf0b09e1cf3b909b1dda8a55c12e4eaf6837c118eb879b4ccc.jpg?w=800&h=604
And the "Strange radiation" Tracks also present in the same fins with the cavitation marks:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c1885f4881758b13ac5e049aae81aab0d741506876d2a428eaa6074b92dde682.jpg?w=800&h=604https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/299a768fcd3c6813478a804e527cbe0bde95e8dc1893a740326b86b61e97e721.png?w=800&h=440



Offline ChileanOne

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Re: The quest for achieving overunity from HHO or structured water gas
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2019, 11:38:08 PM »
This is a long video of one of the most critical parts of the MFMP visit to Ohmasa's labs.

Bob Greenyer was completely elated and you must forgive him his euforic demeanor, he had barely time to sleep during the whole week as he wanted to do more and more tests to make the most of their time there. Here you can see the ohmasa gas in action cutting a tungsten rod, melting titanium and turning a cooper coin into a soft goo that could not cut through a thin teflon sheet. You can also see the almost spontaneous stripping of carbon out of the teflon sheet, and the strange properties of the soot as described by Bob Greenyer who had to go watch his hands after touching it because it caused a tingling electric shock sensation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOcWAcecPxE

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The quest for achieving overunity from HHO or structured water gas
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2019, 11:38:08 PM »
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Offline ChileanOne

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Re: The quest for achieving overunity from HHO or structured water gas
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2019, 11:56:32 PM »
Here's a video of Dr. Ohmasa's big 22 KWH generator he runs with a mixture of his gas and LPG, without any input of additiona oxygen from air.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub_AXq8g_0g

Offline ChileanOne

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Re: The quest for achieving overunity from HHO or structured water gas
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2019, 12:02:13 AM »
This is a closer look to the "craters" and "spheres" in the Pd coated SS fins used to vibrate a MgCl solution of D2O (these are the radiation remediation applications of Dr. Ohmasa electrolysis technologies).Here we could be seeing evidence of the generation of EVOs capable of carving those craters and displace metal material to form the spheres observed in other exotic experiments (even in Hutchinson's metal samples).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK7lGbZxzeY

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The quest for achieving overunity from HHO or structured water gas
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2019, 12:02:13 AM »
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Offline ChileanOne

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Re: The quest for achieving overunity from HHO or structured water gas
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2019, 12:21:24 AM »
I am posting all these videos to try to stablish that water electrolysis, if done properly, is not really creating HHO gas, but something else, that has an increased level of energy. These gasesous water cluster molecules, are heavier than air so they can be stored even in a paper bag if needed, at normal pressure, but can be stored also safely and densely in normal LPG vessels. Ohmasa gas is not claimed to be overunity, but no one has bothered to chek it also, as Dr. Omasa is completely unaware of the relationship of his invention to EVOs and he potential overunity this aspect brings forth.

The thing is, unlike Dr. Tadahiko Mizuno's latest LENR succes (which he is publishing with fully detailed instructions for replication, BTW if you are interested), Electrolysis and vibration technology is something we DYI tikerer's can handle at backyard level, and see for ourselves all the anomalies and even try to determine if OU is possible.

I think the other approach that could be also easy to prove OU and also is not normally used is John Kanzius RF water gas generation approach.

The water gas clusters are beyond a speculation, they have been measured and Omasa is aware that this is the basis of the stability and safety of his gas.(you can see here a 2012 news clip of NHK TV that mentions Omasa and also shows a schematic of the water clusters in the middle of the H and O mixture)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVwmr7WNtNA

Offline ChileanOne

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Re: The quest for achieving overunity from HHO or structured water gas
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2019, 02:34:27 AM »
Why I think Omasa's process is the one that perhaps is closer to "perfection" on producing clustered water gas, is due to it considering most if not all of the points listed in the 2011 paper of water electrolyzers and the zero point energy:
2.5. Summary
This paper was motivated by the apparent success of the researchers and hobbyists in the “HHO
community.” They have been demonstrating unusual energy anomalies and have been trying to explain
them in terms of hydrogen production. Those that are scientifically trained realize that hydrogen cannot
account for what is claimed, and thus the discussion groups on the web are engaged in vituperative
argument. In a sense, both sides are right: hobbyists appear to be demonstrating energetic anomalies and
hydrogen is not the source.
The hypothesis offered is that the single-duct electrolyzers are producing charged water gas clusters,
which is the dominant energetic component instead of hydrogen. The electrolyzers that yield the largest
energy anomalies appear to make more charged water clusters and less hydrogen. From the study of the
disclosures by many inventors, the following characteristics seem to make favorable electrolyzers:
1. Clean, rough electrode surface (I really can't tell from the images, will have to look at Omasa's patents)
2. Small gap between the electrodes (you can see Omasa's electrolyzer has few millimeters between electrolyzer's fins, but also the whole array is almost cubic using a high volume within the reactor)
3. Circulate or vibrate the water (with a few energy input, Omasa's vibrating fins (which create a lot of cavitation), create a very turbulent regime full of vortexes that removes quickly and steadily the gas being formed between the electrolyzer's fins, and the gas remains dissolved in teh water!!!!)
4. Minimum electrolyte (typically potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide) (Omasa's process uses different electrolytes and reports elemental transmutation depending of the mixture used, also when using D2O in the mix)
5. Driving electrolyzer with pulsed DC square waves

(don't know in Omasa's case, have to look at the patents)6. High voltage spike on the leading edge of the square wave
(don't know in Omasa's case, have to look at the patents)7. Recycling the exhaust water back to the electrolyzer: (There's no exhaust water, it all takes place in a batch reactor!!!)

Turbulent water flow through narrow inter-electrode gaps appears to augment the energy content of
the emitted gas (Already said that the vibrating fins create a very turbulent regime and plenty of cavitation and vortexes in the fluid subject to electrolysis).


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The quest for achieving overunity from HHO or structured water gas
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2019, 02:34:27 AM »
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Offline Sergh

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Re: The quest for achieving overunity from HHO or structured water gas
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2019, 09:12:50 AM »
These 2 patents on the links below are completely similar.   ;D Kapanadze patent does not explicitly indicate the source of vibration. But this is understandable by placing the electrolyzer in the cylinder of a working internal combustion engine:
 https://patents.google.com/patent/RU2243390C1/en?oq=RU+2243390+C1

https://overunity.com/16440/hho-generation-using-high-frequency-electromagnetic-waves-on-water/msg533697/#msg533697

Offline ChileanOne

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Re: The quest for achieving overunity from HHO or structured water gas
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2019, 01:58:34 PM »
Thanks for your answer Sergh, I don’t mean that only Omasa has the proper reactor, in fact most HHO systems are capable of creating structured or clustered water in gaseous form, just Omasa creates a big fraction so he is confident to leave the reactor open to air because he knows his gas can’t scape because it’s heavier than air. He also stores it for long periods in normal LPG vessels without any inconvenience. He also can liquify it at normal atmospheric pressure.


But beyond what Omasa does, for me the important part is that it allows to see that what most people thinks that is HHO with all its unusual properties, is not HHO but clustered water gas, which is a radical new thing and allows overunity and nuclear transmutation, which in turn is what we all here are seeking, I say that understanding that this is not Hydrogen and Oxygen but water in a higher state of energy is completely mind boggling and the key to achieve overunity and open a big hole in all what is known and accepted in physics and nuclear science.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The quest for achieving overunity from HHO or structured water gas
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2019, 01:58:34 PM »
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Offline oz93666

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Re: The quest for achieving overunity from HHO or structured water gas
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2019, 05:05:09 AM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAlhKaWWzLM


Hi ... Have just watched that short video ... nothing seems to have moved on since I saw the first Ohmasa video , many years ago ... it seems the laboratory is in mothballs and he just took the dust sheets off for the camera crew and visitor .... Ohmasa seems senile , unable to open the detergent bottle ...  where are the engines??? What has Ohmasa been doing all these years??? If a new gas has been isolated why has this not been analysed by professional chemists ... Rather strange this new gas has a very low liquefying temp , when we think it must be a large molecule , the two do not go together.

In the second video with the torch  @10 mins we burn through the tungsten ... the camera only registers 400C  ..... when the torch is taken off the tungsten , (presumably the plasmatic effect has ceased ) but the metal is still glowing orange .... this metal must be 1000C

It was mentioned that iron melted and sagged under water at 80C !!! if this was the case it would make everyone a believer ... Do we have a video of this???

Offline ChileanOne

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Re: The quest for achieving overunity from HHO or structured water gas
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2019, 05:33:56 AM »
Hi ... Have just watched that short video ... nothing seems to have moved on since I saw the first Ohmasa video , many years ago ... it seems the laboratory is in mothballs and he just took the dust sheets off for the camera crew and visitor .... Ohmasa seems senile , unable to open the detergent bottle ...  where are the engines??? What has Ohmasa been doing all these years??? If a new gas has been isolated why has this not been analysed by professional chemists ... Rather strange this new gas has a very low liquefying temp , when we think it must be a large molecule , the two do not go together.

In the second video with the torch  @10 mins we burn through the tungsten ... the camera only registers 400C  ..... when the torch is taken off the tungsten , (presumably the plasmatic effect has ceased ) but the metal is still glowing orange .... this metal must be 1000C
You are certainly missing a lot of points here. Ohmasa is old, no doubts, but he has been doing well on bussines side, the visit of the MFMP to his facilities was result of Ohmasa's own new interest in solving the Fukushima radiactive crysis, as he has been able to prove in Japan his process can deactivate radioactive waste and radioactive material, and this is what attracted MFMP there, because they have been on the trail of the realtionship between LENR in many forms an the existence of EVOs, and other associates phenomenons they call Strange Radiation and long march tracks in materials present/and/or exposed to processes in which EVOs are generated.

The bottom line is that Omasa's process is doing  nuclear stuff no one thinks is possible, and doing it in a repeatable and measurable way, opening a way to completely blast off all what is believed to be known about plasma physics and nuclear reactions until now. Overunity is just a "side effect" on this menu.
On the other hand, Ohmasa's gas is completely different of HHO in the density and storage properties, and it does not cause Hydrogen embrittlement, nor explosions, and is liquifiable at temperatures far higher than Hydrogen (-253°C required) and oxygen (-183°C required) at atmospheric pressure and is denser than both H or O in liquid state.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The quest for achieving overunity from HHO or structured water gas
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2019, 05:33:56 AM »
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Offline oz93666

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Re: The quest for achieving overunity from HHO or structured water gas
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2019, 05:51:14 AM »
You are certainly missing a lot of points here. Ohmasa is old, no doubts, but he has been doing well on bussines side, the visit of the MFMP to his facilities was result of Ohmasa's own new interest in solving the Fukushima radiactive crysis, as he has been able to prove in Japan his process can deactivate radioactive waste and radioactive material, and this is what attracted MFMP there, because they have been on the trail of the realtionship between LENR in many forms an the existence of EVOs, and other associates phenomenons they call Strange Radiation and long march tracks in materials present/and/or exposed to processes in which EVOs are generated.

The bottom line is that Omasa's process is doing  nuclear stuff no one thinks is possible, and doing it in a repeatable and measurable way, opening a way to completely blast off all what is believed to be known about plasma physics and nuclear reactions until now. Overunity is just a "side effect" on this menu.
On the other hand, Ohmasa's gas is completely different of HHO in the density and storage properties, and it does not cause Hydrogen embrittlement, nor explosions, and is liquifiable at temperatures far higher than Hydrogen (-253°C required) and oxygen (-183°C required) at atmospheric pressure and is denser than both H or O in liquid state.

I do have a very open mind , and do believe there is anomalous things going on with OHO ... but all this sounds very dodgy ... Ohmasa has got nowhere with Practical  OHO vehicles , so has now wandered off into a totally unrelated area Fuckashema radiation , and is now suggesting the same OHO science can magically neutralise radiation ... he sounds increasingly like a con man , after the popular vote .

Offline ChileanOne

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Re: The quest for achieving overunity from HHO or structured water gas
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2019, 06:14:46 AM »
I do have a very open mind , and do believe there is anomalous things going on with OHO ... but all this sounds very dodgy ... Ohmasa has got nowhere with Practical  OHO vehicles , so has now wandered off into a totally unrelated area Fuckashema radiation , and is now suggesting the same OHO science can magically neutralise radiation ... he sounds increasingly like a con man , after the popular vote .
Well, again, the point is not what Ohmasa is or not doing now, but how it entails in the realization that the whole trove of oddities found in his case and many others, is due to EVOs formed during the process, and how this is going to blast away all current knowledge in a new era of deeper understanding of physics of "EVOs, Charged cluster, magnecules, condensed plasmoids, or whatever the name you want to give them, is all the same, and opens completely new ground in physics.
You might like this awesome review I just found today while looking for one particular replication of Graneau's water arc explosions, which is another flavor of the same underlying phenomena.
(93 pages pdf)http://condensed-plasmoids.com/condensed_plasmoids_lenr.pdf

 

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