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Author Topic: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell  (Read 54652 times)

Offline tinman

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Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
« Reply #120 on: August 26, 2013, 12:01:23 PM »
@tinman sometimes just one spark is all it takes brother.no disrespect,ive seen enough to know what im talking about.@pirate a story indeed.non-fiction part of the library,but thanks anyway.
Ok ,lets do this.
You provide the spark,and i'll get the fire burning.
You give me the detailed plans for the karpen pile battery (including schematic),and i will fork out the money for the materials and build to your specifications.
This couldnt come at a better time,as the pulse motor build off has just started-and i always do a build along side all the contestant's.
I would be more than happy to put forth the worlds first "OU" pulse motor at the end of the build off. And i would even tell you to keep your $10,000 you offered me to do it.
If it work's,i will also put your name to the design on the various radio show's that we will be on after the build off is finnished-Mark knows this to be true,and you have it here in writing. This would get your career of to a flying start,and make you the money you so seek.
If you wish to keep the schematic off of the forum,then my email is sidewinder350@westnet.com.au  You can email them to me at that address,and the details remain with us until the device is working.

So what do you say profitis, interested?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
« Reply #120 on: August 26, 2013, 12:01:23 PM »

Offline markdansie

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Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
« Reply #121 on: August 26, 2013, 03:52:39 PM »
Hi Profitis and Tinman,
Having tested the key components of a Karpen pile in the Utah labs last year, you have to use extremely high purity lab standard metals. These are not cheap. If you have any impurities then you will see a galvanic reaction.
The following is test criteria and rational that will be required to determine if the device is either a battery or environmental energy harvesting device. It is not an overunity device.
1. You will need to test it in a Fardays's cage to rule out any EMF or RF influences.
2. I also suggest you do your testing in a hard vacuum.
3. You will need a set of scales to about 5 decimal places per gram to weight any consumption of materials or electrolyte.
4. You will need to check the metallurgy with a full analysis after a predetermined time amount of time.
5. You should also conduct at same time of the metallurgy tests have a detailed analysis of the gases sampled in the container and the electrolyte.You should also run some tests in a controlled environment where you have a static temperature and variable temperature runtime comparisons.
6. You should also get some high quality thermocouples to measure any cooling effects the device may have on the surrounding environment.


That is for starters, anything less would result in an inconclusive test.


Just some notes:
1. There are two basic theories:
     a. It is a battery that will last for many years as it has such a low load on it.
     b. It is a thermal siphon.
2. You can treat certain materials through heat and electrical polling to slowly release electricity over decades
3. You can get a used Nissan leaf battery after its effective life and it will run for decades without recharging producing a modest amount  of power (many times more than a Karpen Pile Battery). This would be at a fraction of the price.


My personnel conclusion after having run experiments first hand is very well expressed by Andrew Wiggin in a post on another forum discussing the subject:
This is a simple primary battery. Referring to it as a thermocouple or thermopile is misdirection, and there's certainly no need for zero point energy or 'quantum' effects. It's the same thing you could do with alternating disks of copper, zinc, and paper, in a bath of vinegar, but more durable. Some folks out there may remember doing things like that in grade school science class, if you had a fun teacher. [/size]You could do this with any two metals, and just about any electrolyte. In most cases such a battery degrades quickly, as the metal disks react with the electrolyte even when no electrons are flowing. Early batteries of this type were called 'plunge' batteries, because you 'plunged' the battery into the electrolyte when you needed electricity, and lifted it back out when you were done, to keep it from dissolving. This battery has cleverly worked around that by using metals that don't react quickly with the electrolyte.In this case, if the article is to be believed, it looks like the metals are gold and platinum, and the electrolyte is sulfuric acid. I think this is plausible. Both gold and platinum dissolve only very slowly in acids unless under extreme oxidizing conditions, in which case an oxidizing agent like fuming nitric acid or concentrated hydrogen peroxide oxidizes the metal and then the oxides dissolve in the acid. Those conditions aren't present in this example, so these metals are relatively inert in these conditions, and the reaction is very slow. It looks like this battery has a fair amount of cells, though I couldn't really find an image clear enough to count them. That makes coming up with a reaction rather difficult. Assuming that they're accurately reporting the 'one volt' output, (exactly one volt?) there are some places where gold and platinum are close enough to each other in the electrochemical series to make a one volt battery with twenty or thirty cells plausible. Without the battery to study, the exact construction and reaction are going to remain a mystery, and it doesn't sound like the museum has any interest in letting this be studied.It sounds like they're measuring the electrons flowing from the cell with some sort of ballistic galvomometer arranged as a motor. These draw very little current, and even then the article implies that the battery has to recharge between turns of the motor, so it has a mechanism that turns it off after each swing. This is consistant with the idea that this battery operates by very slow reactions. I see that some folks have already brought up the oxford electric bell. This is the same sort of battery, in that it has electrodes in very unreactive conditions. In that case, the electrodes are probably something quite far apart on the electrochemical series like copper and silver, and they're thin, so that there can be lots and lots of them. Similar examples have hundreds or thousands of layers. The low reactivity conditions are achieved by it being a 'dry pile' in which the electrolyte is at a very very low concentration. If I recall, the oxford electric bell produces a fairly high voltage at almost unmeasurable current. It's basically a source of 'static electricity' to run a small 'franklin's bell'. You can run a franklin's bell from the current that leaks from the screen of a television; they don't draw much current at all. The low reactivity conditions, combined with the low current draw mean that these things run 'forever'. No mystery here, and no practical power source either. You'd have trouble making either one of these light an LED.




Kind Regards
Mark

Offline profitis

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Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
« Reply #122 on: August 27, 2013, 05:45:20 AM »
no phd,s here @markdansie but i,m going to have to correct you,nobody can or will prove me wrong : karpen is galvanic but not the galvanic you suggest.sorry to let you down but you wont find any correlation of faradaic current and dissolved metals under any circumstances.nor will you find any correlation of power/second and the required temperature difference needed to create it.you dont need gold, 2 platinum electrodes will do same thing.sensitive chemical tests to look for dissolved metals will come out negative you dont need a mass scale.it doesnt work under argon,helium,or nitrogen. the text-books say the metals dont react and they dont react.a nissan battery wont go well with an ipod but an ipod sized battery will.im not particulary concerned wether people think my device is overunity or not but i am concerned with commercial viability so any r&d has to focus on that.if you are willing to focus on its viability im willing to co-operate.p.s. i dont want any mention of the word overunity in public if the device meets your standards.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
« Reply #122 on: August 27, 2013, 05:45:20 AM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
« Reply #123 on: August 27, 2013, 06:08:26 AM »
oh,i forgot.neither gold nor platinum dissolves in the powerful oxidizer nitric acid under any circumstances @ markdansie.a complexing ion has to be present eg.CI-. Btw commercial grade metals will do equaly nice as pure metals,impurity traces are oxidized out the surfaces(if they react) exposing pure metals quickly.

Offline markdansie

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Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
« Reply #124 on: August 27, 2013, 07:09:46 AM »
oh,i forgot.neither gold nor platinum dissolves in the powerful oxidizer nitric acid under any circumstances @ markdansie.a complexing ion has to be present eg.CI-. Btw commercial grade metals will do equaly nice as pure metals,impurity traces are oxidized out the surfaces(if they react) exposing pure metals quickly.
That we can agree on, it depends on how accurate you want to be. The reason for the detail is we are dealing with such a low power output device, you know possible microwatts costing some large chump change.
You made some pretty bold statements about the noble metals never reacting, i would rather let the data to tell me, however I respect your opinion.
Kind Regards


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
« Reply #124 on: August 27, 2013, 07:09:46 AM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
« Reply #125 on: August 27, 2013, 06:19:20 PM »
and i respect your opinion mark.i shouldve just said to you, take two same O2 electrodes and change the O2 concentration on one and see if the text-books are right in predicting a voltage across them but ok im getting some idea of your methadologies in dealing with such things,which must of course be stringent.

Offline profitis

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Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
« Reply #126 on: August 27, 2013, 06:25:27 PM »
@tinman..i,d be happy to help you with that project.no need to go underground tho.im gona just calculate the best substitutes for Au and Pt.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
« Reply #126 on: August 27, 2013, 06:25:27 PM »
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Offline adeem

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Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
« Reply #127 on: May 04, 2018, 10:29:11 PM »
it stupid as hell.... in pakistani politics everything is dirty. Just watching current affairs we can see where we are going. Wish we get more smart people in Pakistan who can educate our people.

-Best
Ady

Signature
https://www.pakshows.pk/current-affairs

Offline stevie1001

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Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
« Reply #128 on: May 09, 2018, 11:45:05 AM »
@liberty
Unfortunately in regards to water splitting and hho the answer is no. In my many years of testing , investigating and reviewing nothing ever panned out. There is still the urban myths people cling onto and this Pakistan claim is type of the Bullshit that is out there.
There are some brilliant people still researching in the area including main steam scientists and universities.


I am sure many good people in this forum good direct me to may claims and examples, but none ever have had third party verification, or data collected. Most the evidence is antidotes, Chinese rumors and just plain BS. Some of the bet research from the amateur experimenters is out of Europe with many good sites and forums.


Whats annoying me in this particular thread is people portraying themselves as experts, and never built a cell in their life. One of the people I admire the most George Wisemen who pioneered a lot of research in this area said on the Smart Scarecrow Show he never sold more than 200 units worldwide. Believe me their is a reason for that.


Kind Regards


PS Profitis....please let us all know the last cell you built and the results you got remember you claimed you have done dozens of experiments. Hey a photograph would be great. I attached one of a device that cracks the hydrogen from the fuel using heat and electric fields. This is at a government test facility in Australia and was part of a series of Chassis dyno tests. We tested the same device in engine labs is California the month before. We also tested it at the NREL labs in USA. We also tested several HHO devices as well .


Hi Mark,


I do not agree with that statement....
You seen my cell....


cheers

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
« Reply #128 on: May 09, 2018, 11:45:05 AM »
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Offline markdansie

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Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
« Reply #129 on: May 09, 2018, 11:59:00 AM »
Hi Steve
yes indeed you built many cells and I consider you one of the leading experts in this field.


However I have never seen a cell yest that was overunity, but I have seen many that consume metal or other ingredients to assist in the hydrogen production. So I stand by the rest of my statement.


Happy to be corrected


PS I still follow water powered car claims. i just put this article on the blog a couple of days ago. One of my friends went to the demonstration on April 25


http://revolution-green.com/walter-jenkins-water-powered-car/





Kind Regards
Mark


 


Offline stevie1001

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Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
« Reply #130 on: May 09, 2018, 12:54:39 PM »
Hi Steve
yes indeed you built many cells and I consider you one of the leading experts in this field.


However I have never seen a cell yest that was overunity, but I have seen many that consume metal or other ingredients to assist in the hydrogen production. So I stand by the rest of my statement.


Happy to be corrected


PS I still follow water powered car claims. i just put this article on the blog a couple of days ago. One of my friends went to the demonstration on April 25


http://revolution-green.com/walter-jenkins-water-powered-car/





Kind Regards
Mark


Just wanted to hi to you.
I agree with yr power input vs gas output question to this builder.
As you seen in my build, there where some other variables involved.
This builder states about special electrodes....
Maybe the calculation should be made differently because the the real proces is different.


I checked your published article.
Buggys are populair in this line of business... ;-)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
« Reply #130 on: May 09, 2018, 12:54:39 PM »
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Offline Belfior

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Re: Agha Waqar running Car on his HHO Fuel Cell
« Reply #131 on: May 09, 2018, 01:36:25 PM »
have you come across Stanley Meyer's technique on how to pulse the water to extract HHO? I know he used circular electrodes submerged, but was there a certain amplitude, pulse rate or frequency?

Then just a couple of side notes:

We already run our cars with hydrogen. It is just called hydrocarbons. Carbon and other shit is ejected with the smoke and hydrogen is coming out as water droplets from your exhaust pipe. Why we are not using water in our cars is that water is fucking cheap. It is pretty hard to justify all the infrastructure and 1,5€ per liter price for gasoline if we could use plain water. We are just told it is so much easier to use fuels to get hydrogen and that is just a 5 trillion dollar lie. We could have clean energy even now without any pollution, but people need their money.

You talked about this "long lasting battery". I believe there is zero energy in a battery. You can pretty much smash it and there is no explosion. What it has is two opposing poles or potentials. When you create path between them the energy is provided by Nature, that is trying to equalize these two potentials to the same level. That is why the battery raises from the dead when you leave it alone. So you could go forever with a battery if you take a small current out through a coil and maybe light an LED and then cut the power and put the back-EMF spike back into the battery. You could do like a Figuera device just with batteries

 

 

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