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Author Topic: How to get energy from resonance  (Read 16765 times)

Offline Johny70

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How to get energy from resonance
« on: June 28, 2013, 11:25:11 AM »
I made resonant transformer (BOCAF, transvereter) and get nice saturated core with high voltage from resonance (~400V, input 25V/200mA) in secondary coil. I tried to build circuit for drawing energy from resonated coil (shown on many web sites, with capacitors, transistors, SCR, ...) but they don't work. Resonance stop whenever I try to get even a mA from it.

Question: Does anybody built a circuit for drawing energy from resonated coil?

Thanks in advance,

Johny

PS Sorry if I missed some post with similar answer.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline andrea76

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Re: How to get energy from resonance
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2014, 09:48:32 AM »
charge your cellphone with resonance transformer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpfHnCW3hUc&list=UUAGxGhwMAk0xI3YTZPQHcnQ

Offline gauschor

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Re: How to get energy from resonance
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2014, 02:36:37 PM »
Cool cellphone charger. A picture of the circuit would be nice. Also how long it takes and how often this works and if the battery is killed by this circuit (similar to Hectors experiments) etc. etc.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How to get energy from resonance
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2014, 02:36:37 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: How to get energy from resonance
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2014, 04:13:52 PM »
I made resonant transformer (BOCAF, transvereter) and get nice saturated core with high voltage from resonance (~400V, input 25V/200mA) in secondary coil. I tried to build circuit for drawing energy from resonated coil (shown on many web sites, with capacitors, transistors, SCR, ...) but they don't work. Resonance stop whenever I try to get even a mA from it.

Question: Does anybody built a circuit for drawing energy from resonated coil?

Thanks in advance,

Johny

PS Sorry if I missed some post with similar answer.

Read the first few pages of this pdf.

Mags

Offline centraflow

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Re: How to get energy from resonance
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2014, 06:15:32 PM »
Nice pdf Mags,


you can also look at RF transformers, there are some very exotic transformers made by Hams if you look on the net, they are designed not to interrupt the primary even if step up or down, I have a push pull design I use a lot between oscillator and preamp, also preamp to linear running at a kw, 28Mhz, the right ferite of coarse for the frequency is important.


regards


Mike 8)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How to get energy from resonance
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2014, 06:15:32 PM »
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Offline freiwild1

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Re: How to get energy from resonance
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2014, 11:16:38 PM »
You can try a "Diode Plug" and Sine Wave Peak clipping search for Hector and Konehead solutions. To get something out without destroying resonance you can feed load only very short times during the wave peaks and rest of time you have to disconnect your load but you can collect in capacitors if they are not so empty that they are a load to. So in other words you can charge capacitors with diode plug (diodes) and half discharge them on sine wave peak in a load.  Or try Don Smith Heaviside copper aluminium Condensor plates perpendicular to ferrit/iron/cobalt/metglas resonance rod or alike. Good Luck!

 

Offline Farmhand

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Re: How to get energy from resonance
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2014, 01:43:54 AM »
One way to get output from a resonant system is to tune the frequency to the load, ie. after placing the load on the secondary simply readjust the frequency till maximum output is realized for that load. I imagine the load is changing the L/C relationship of the coils and so changing the actual frequency of resonance for the setup when loaded a certain way. So as we need to do in many tuned circuits, we need to tune to get best output when loaded. All output will still come from the input unless energy is input from elsewhere. If the cores are becoming fuel via some mechanism then any extra input (if there is) may be explained that way. I very much doubt any extra energy can be obtained by "resonance" alone, however resonance can increase oscillating power as in the PDF here - http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/files/Trans-verter%20R%20and%20D.pdf
The oscillating power is not output until it is used to power a useful load ie. do some useful work. Measuring the current and voltage in a secondary tank and calling it is output is very misleading as it not output at all, it is simply oscillating power.  See attachment.

Mag's that PDF kind of alludes to the idea that if several toroids are used around the ring each one will output the same amount of energy as is input to the primary. Is that what it says ? Is the PDF hinting that if more than one secondary toroid is used it will go OU ? If so I can whip up a setup with one center core and several secondary cores and winding in short order and anyone serious about OU should be able to do the same, if they have core material and wire. My opinion is that the unchanging input from the primary will create a certain amount of flux and each of the additional toroids and secondary windings will share that, so that the output energy would never exceed the input energy even if the input is unaffected by the shorting of the output/secondaries.

Please confirm. Is the PDF suggesting a method of OU ? Or does it mean the additional secondaries will share the flux created by the primary ? 

Cheers

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How to get energy from resonance
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2014, 01:43:54 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: How to get energy from resonance
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2014, 02:28:34 AM »

Mag's that PDF kind of alludes to the idea that if several toroids are used around the ring each one will output the same amount of energy as is input to the primary. Is that what it says ? Is the PDF hinting that if more than one secondary toroid is used it will go OU ? If so I can whip up a setup with one center core and several secondary cores and winding in short order and anyone serious about OU should be able to do the same, if they have core material and wire. My opinion is that the unchanging input from the primary will create a certain amount of flux and each of the additional toroids and secondary windings will share that, so that the output energy would never exceed the input energy even if the input is unaffected by the shorting of the output/secondaries.

Please confirm. Is the PDF suggesting a method of OU ? Or does it mean the additional secondaries will share the flux created by the primary ? 

Cheers

Hey farmhand

I have fiddled with the pdf a while back.  I didnt do the one thing the pdf suggests only one time, is that with this method, loading the secondary will not kill the resonance of the primary. I am thinking that is where the icing is and the rest of it is just the cake. ;)

It states that with the 2 core method that there is no more out to be gotten than in. But there it was talking about straight input. None of the examples shows the primary in or as a resonant component. 

So it seems that being able to extract from a resonant component might be an advantage here. We know that in a normal transformer, if the primary is a resonant component, loading the secondary with any load, the resonance of the primary will cease, or be greatly reduced.

So if there are more than 1 separate magnetic circuits, more cores and secondaries, that dont kill the primary ring, then possibly we may have something good. I hope. ;)


To put out a pdf of a device that puts out OU might get shut down quite quickly.  So if you put the pdf together and just throw 1 hint in the text, without actually showing an example or the results, then it is more possible that the pdf would 'get out there' and some may get the hint and some not. Just a hunch. Being the pdf suggests no more power out than in in a normal situation, what happens to the output if it is following the apparent resonant gain of the primary, of which the resonance should also not be a heavy load on the source.  Seems logical doesnt it?

Threw my back out yesterday. Even hard to get something out of the fridge. :-[ I need a backeeotomy.  ;D   

Had seen on ebay today, 50 assorted ferrite cores for $15. 

Mags

Offline Farmhand

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Re: How to get energy from resonance
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2014, 02:42:09 AM »
Mags,  Back problems can be a hazard of experimenting over a bench for too long, an existing back problem can become chronic if you continue to do stuff while it is trying to heal, please rest up a bit. Mine is similar but now chronic due to continuing to work using pain killers. Coming good very slowly now I am resigned to reduced work output, I wish i had rested just after I injured it but I was already taking heavy pain killers for a neck disc issue and did not feel when I blew out my lower back, now it is more of a problem than my neck, dang it. Almost impossible to get any treatment without breaking the bank. I've had to learn how to treat myself, it took 7 months to get an improving situation. Take care.  :(

As for the arrangement in the PDF, thanks for the reply and I will need to test that as well. I've got many kilo's of laminated induction motor steel, I can make as many toroids as I want.  ;D Motor steel should be fine up to a few hundred Hz or even a few Khz, I like 400 Hz.

Cheers

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How to get energy from resonance
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2014, 02:42:09 AM »
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Offline Johny70

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Re: How to get energy from resonance
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2014, 08:46:20 AM »
Read the first few pages of this pdf.

Mags

Nice pdf but I`m worried about one thing. When connect load to the "secondary" coil (wherever it may be in chain of coils), there is the electromagnetic force caused by the current in this coil. It affects the source - the resonant coil, and the resonance will drop down. Maybe is some "special case", in some combination of cores, where the influence to the resonance is avoided. I do hope we will find it.
Anyway thanks for PDF

Best regards

Offline stargate22

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Re: How to get energy from resonance
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2014, 10:05:47 AM »
Worked for me... :o

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How to get energy from resonance
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2014, 10:05:47 AM »
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Offline Jeg

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Re: How to get energy from resonance
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2014, 02:11:22 PM »
Hi at all

I believe that two things need to happen first for not killing the oscillations and secondly to transfer the highest power that your ac supply at primary can give.

For the first task, your secondary wire length including the cable length that attach your secondary to the other components of your circuit, have to be in a wavelength relation with your primary. That means to be in a full wave or 1/2 or 1/4 relation. In fact, this is the only way to keep your oscillations alive!

For the second task which is the power transfer, impedance matching calculations have to be made. This is not difficult if you know the right equations which are in the following pdf.

Tnks
Jeg

Offline Jeg

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Re: How to get energy from resonance
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2014, 02:09:26 PM »
Dear Friends
Is there any type of capacitors that can handle high currents and heat in a secondary tuning? I currently use this type of caps with a voltage rating of 3KV. I put 6 of them in parallel to handle the current and to dissipate the heat as 1 by itself is being explode when resonance occurs. But, they are still running very hot!

Tnks Jeg

Offline vasik041

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Re: How to get energy from resonance
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2014, 06:58:44 PM »
You can try WIMA capacitors, they are quite good.
But you still need put several of them in parallel...

Offline Magluvin

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Re: How to get energy from resonance
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2014, 12:45:05 AM »
Nice pdf but I`m worried about one thing. When connect load to the "secondary" coil (wherever it may be in chain of coils), there is the electromagnetic force caused by the current in this coil. It affects the source - the resonant coil, and the resonance will drop down. Maybe is some "special case", in some combination of cores, where the influence to the resonance is avoided. I do hope we will find it.
Anyway thanks for PDF

Best regards


Sorry, didnt see this post till now. ::) ;D

Well, using 2 cores, primary wound to 1 core and secondary wound through 2 cores, loading the secondary increases the primary inductance, thus lowering the current in the primary compared to no load on the secondary. But, if you add a 3rd winding wound only on the 2nd core and load it also, then primary current will increase compared to idle( no loads), just like a normal transformer. But then add a 3rd core to the 3rd winding, and back to less current in the primary and idle current.

So if the primary is in resonance, loading the first secondary will increase the primary inductance and only lower primary resonant freq, not kill it. But if we load the 3rd winding, the one wound only on the 2nd core, primary resonance will be killed of like a normal transformer.

Mags

 

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