Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Mechanical free energy devices => Regen-X generator by Thane Heins => Topic started by: synchro1 on June 09, 2013, 05:07:49 PM

Title: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on June 09, 2013, 05:07:49 PM
I received a message from Bob Smith, asking if I ever tried a "Mag Amp". I'm opening this new thread so everyone can benefit from  Bob's knowhow.

Here's Igor's bedini-magnacoaster video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzNjAs3-9LA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzNjAs3-9LA)


Reply to your comment on: bedini-magnacoaster:

My question to Igor was; Does the rotor speed increase when you insert the iron magnet into the coil core? His answer:

"yes, it does, a little...
to get to the bottom of it we need to make an inductor from it !
here's the Vorktex secret - by oscillation (it's his "breaker") get a HF HV output; transform it down to HF HA output and than rectify it to the caps bank; and discharge it to batteries to run the inverters to run the oscillator ... looped...
btw, like your antygravity tests...

cheers"


This confirms the rotor acceleration. The question remains, is this "Lenz Delay Effect"? My theory is that the magnet interferes with coil efficiency, inducing the delay! Extending the output coil core length appears to slow the coil's performance down too!


Here's Igor's video on the solid state "magnacoaster effect":


This experiment is basicly the same as the Dragone. Impulse demagnetization is generating OU power.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWhsJWXEER4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWhsJWXEER4)[/size]

Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on June 09, 2013, 05:34:43 PM

JLN's 2sgen COP  13.7:

http://jlnlabs.online.fr/2SGen/html/s2genep7en.htm (http://jlnlabs.online.fr/2SGen/html/s2genep7en.htm)


Here's a link to Nickolay E. Zaev's paper. JLN tested COP of over thirteen:



l = ((Vdem^2)/10000) / ((Vmag^2)/10000) = ((35.2^2)/10000) / ((9.5^2)/10000) = 13.7
It is interesting to notice that N. Zaev has found a l = 16.3 with a Permalloy 81 NM core (look at here (http://jlnlabs.online.fr/2SGen/images/demag.pdf)[/size]


The 2Sgen is a ferrite toroid core with magnets attached inside a pulse coil, and an output coil. All the same components as Igor's in his "bedini-magnetcoaster" video test! Remember; Igor's trifilar has a power coil, and an output coil just like the 2Sgen! Tickler makes 3!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on June 09, 2013, 06:02:11 PM
The combination of the OU demagnetization power from Igor's magnet core along with the rotor acceleration, however slight, proves conclusively that his abundant output is genuinely "Lenzless"! Generating this amount of awesome output power actually reduces the input power to the rotor! I got this setup to run itself and charge it's own source battery with diametric magnet core and a dipole rotor.


Here's one of the serial bifilar output coils and the stack of diametric neos I ran into the core:
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: Bob Smith on June 09, 2013, 08:42:18 PM
I thought a magamp might be useful for increasing the output of Synchro1's setup.
Useful intro to magamps:
http://teslapress.com/magamp.html (http://teslapress.com/magamp.html)
 
Another decent intro:
http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/mag-amp/mag-amp.htm (http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/mag-amp/mag-amp.htm)
 
A basic magamp serving as audio amplifier:
http://sparkbangbuzz.com/mag-audio-amp/mag-audio-amp.htm (http://sparkbangbuzz.com/mag-audio-amp/mag-audio-amp.htm)
 
Bob
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on June 10, 2013, 06:16:32 AM
@Bob Smith,

                    Thanks very much Bob for your exciting links!

I think this experiment demonstrates more clearly then any how the Magnetic Amplifier works.

"To begin, I would like to first show a simple experiment that demonstrates how saturating a magnetic core can lower inductance and allow more AC current to flow through a lamp.

The lamp glows brighter when the magnets are near the transformer. The magnetic field saturates the core, lowering the inductive reactance in series with the lamp".
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on June 10, 2013, 07:05:01 AM
Two powerful magnets, one on each side of a ferrite core coil would allow us to compare diametric polarization output to axial. Imagine a ferrite core, wrapped in it's own coil as a core, or a coil with two smaller coils T'd in from the sides with variable power control like the magnetic amplifier.  


                                    Controlling the core field would act like a tuner!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on June 10, 2013, 09:27:26 AM

This latest video by Skycollection previews a Pancake bifilar with a ferrite toroid wrapped in a coil inside the center of the Pancake. Skycollection maintains this coil causes "Lenz Delay". This looks just like the "Magnetic Amplifier" I just invented for the Trifilar solenoid! Jorge measured an overunity COP of +3x with these kinds of coils. A JLN 2Sgen?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMgB7YnvxWM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMgB7YnvxWM)[/size]
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on June 11, 2013, 10:01:46 PM
Imagine a solenoid ferrite core wrapped in a coil. One end of the core coil connected to the positive of the power source, and the other in series with the inside wire of the solenoid coil wrap. The pulse should generate a magnetic field in the ferrite before the outer coil does. This is how I believe Skycollection's toroid works.


The other alternative would involve placing a bridge of tiny neo disk magnets between the inside edges of Skycollection's ferrite toroid!  


The impulse strength of the serial bifilar coil makes this winding configuration preferable to the single wire for the generation of demagnetization power. The SBC produces a stronger field collapse from the rotor departure, back on it's own remnant core field!


There's a "Magnet Pump" event in the sequence of events starting with the pulse through the rotor magnet decoupling. There's a remnant magnetic field in the ferrite that the outside field collapses on when the rotor departs. That generates the "Demagnetization" output from the ferrite core.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: skycollection on June 12, 2013, 03:07:18 PM
Yes you rigth,the demagnetization out put from the ferrite core, produce more output...!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: wings on June 12, 2013, 04:43:00 PM
Yes you rigth,the demagnetization out put from the ferrite core, produce more output...!
this remember me Naudin 2sGen experiments :
http://jnaudin.free.fr/2SGen/indexen.htm
http://jnaudin.free.fr/2SGen/html/2sgenrplicen.htm
http://jnaudin.free.fr/2SGen/indexen.htm#without
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on June 14, 2013, 04:50:21 PM
The Honda and Prius hybrid cars have competing systems. The Honda's a consecutive hybrid, the Prius Parallel. 


Skycollection's motor generator was measured by him at 5.7x OU. Wired to a battery, an a.c. motor can be driven through an inverter. The inclusion of an Orbital gear allows the motor generator to assist the electric drive motor. This would work the same as the Prius Parallel This is much different from Thane Hiens's version which employs a direct drive shaft from the primary to the wheel. Thanes design is very primative by comparison. Thane has failed to demonstrate any OU measurements from his Lenz Delay unit either. 


Thane can't touch this kind "Parallel" performance with his outdated design. Coupled with the "Orbital Gear", Skycollection's setup would work much better to power a motorbike or car.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: skycollection on June 17, 2013, 11:39:06 PM
This is my new design of coil, PYRAMID SHAPED CONE, with a lot of practical applications...!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on June 18, 2013, 08:52:15 PM

Video of magnet effect on rotor:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN37ruFKrhs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN37ruFKrhs)
Title: FLAT RODIN COIL & LENZ EFFECT
Post by: skycollection on June 24, 2013, 11:17:21 PM
THIS IS MY NEW EXPERIMENT, I AM USING MY FLAT RODIN COIL, MY MAGNETIC LEVITATION BASE AND MY CIRCUIT CONTROL RF-530.


AS YOU KNOW  I DON´T OSPEAK ENGLISH AND I DON´T SRUDIED ELECTRONICS, IF I POST ERRORS IS FOR THAT REASON...!


SALUDOS
FROM MEXICO


JORGE REBOLLEDO


P. S. IF YOU WANT TO REPLICATE THIS EXPERIMENT, YOU NEED A MAGLEV BASE THAT CAN PRODUCE 10,000 TO 30,000 RPM, YOU CAN NOT REPLICATE WITH CONVENTIONAL PULSE MOTORS TAHT ONLY PRODUCE 7,000 RPM, YOU NEED AT LEAST 10,000 RPM AND MORE....!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: conradelektro on June 24, 2013, 11:54:06 PM
Hi Jorge!

Thank you for showing the circuit, that allows a meaningful discussion.

I changed your circuit in a way which would show OU. I do not think it will work. But if your set up produces more energy than you put in, my modifications would allow to run the rotor without the battery.

Start with the battery and when you think that the rotor has reached its top speed, you switch away the battery (the motor then runs from the 47.000 µF capacitor). The rotor will probably slow down over time. If it speeds up, run and hide, your motor will self destruct (but it is very unlikely).

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on June 25, 2013, 01:16:16 AM

Hyperlink to Skycollection's new video:





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUGQxJzfyX0[/size]
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MileHigh on June 25, 2013, 03:53:33 AM
Conradelektro:

You believe that adding the red diode will route the collapsing field energy of the coil back to the battery (or the capacitor if you are using the capacitor.)

In fact this will not happen.  No recharging of the battery or the capacitor will take place.

Also, when you look at the original circuit, you don't need the FWBR, all that you need is a diode.

Please think about this and if you want to try to understand what I am saying as an exercise for yourself, more power to you.  For what it's worth, on many Mopozco clips he makes similar claims and they are also not true.  That means this is a common misunderstanding or misconception.

MileHigh


Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: skycollection on June 25, 2013, 06:18:25 AM
Thanks Conrad, i am agreed with you, probably not work, but i always make experimentation, i will make the experiment and i will tell you what happens....! I think is amazing motor, this motor is not overunity, but with time and experimentation probably i can make an efficient motor.
1.- i have a question: i would like to power the motor with 18-24 volts, the question is how is the new value of the resistance (1K RESISTOR)to protect the hall sensor....? and what changes i must do in the circuit...?
2.- i would like to connect a second battery, (battery charger) can you show where are the new connections...?


saludos


Jorge
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: conradelektro on June 25, 2013, 12:50:54 PM
Conradelektro:

You believe that adding the red diode will route the collapsing field energy of the coil back to the battery (or the capacitor if you are using the capacitor.)

In fact this will not happen.  No recharging of the battery or the capacitor will take place.

Also, when you look at the original circuit, you don't need the FWBR, all that you need is a diode.

Please think about this and if you want to try to understand what I am saying as an exercise for yourself, more power to you.  For what it's worth, on many Mopozco clips he makes similar claims and they are also not true.  That means this is a common misunderstanding or misconception.

MileHigh

I know that it does not work, see my experiments

http://www.overunity.com/13523/has-anyone-seen-lasersabers-new-motor-runs-on-1000uf-cap/msg363629/#msg363629

http://www.overunity.com/13523/has-anyone-seen-lasersabers-new-motor-runs-on-1000uf-cap/msg363634/#msg363634

Less relevant:

http://www.overunity.com/13523/has-anyone-seen-lasersabers-new-motor-runs-on-1000uf-cap/msg363504/#msg363504

http://www.overunity.com/13523/has-anyone-seen-lasersabers-new-motor-runs-on-1000uf-cap/msg363590/#msg363590

http://www.overunity.com/13523/has-anyone-seen-lasersabers-new-motor-runs-on-1000uf-cap/msg363599/#msg363599

Greetings, Conrad

Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: conradelektro on June 25, 2013, 01:27:47 PM
Thanks Conrad, i am agreed with you, probably not work, but i always make experimentation, i will make the experiment and i will tell you what happens....! I think is amazing motor, this motor is not overunity, but with time and experimentation probably i can make an efficient motor.
1.- i have a question: i would like to power the motor with 18-24 volts, the question is how is the new value of the resistance (1K RESISTOR)to protect the hall sensor....? and what changes i must do in the circuit...?
2.- i would like to connect a second battery, (battery charger) can you show where are the new connections...?

saludos

Jorge

Hi Jorge,

attached please find your circuit for charging a second battery (the first battery drives the motor).

You are right, your circuit as it is now, should not be supplied with more than 20 Volt. The reason is that the Gate - Source Voltage of the IRF510 should not be higher than 20 Volt.

The Hall sensor A3144 can be supplied with up to 24 Volt (absolute maximum 28 V), so in principle you could use two stacked batteries (24 V - 27 V).

I will try to change your circuit for 24 V to 27 V operation.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: conradelektro on June 25, 2013, 02:00:55 PM
Hi Jorge,

attached your circuit for 24 V operation.

But it is still very close for the A3144 Hall sensor, because it should not be operated above 24 V, but should support for some time 28 Volt. Do not run it for hours on 28 Volt, only some minutes. You could touch the A3144 to see if it gets hot. To 2 K resistor (1 K + 1 K) in front of the A3144 does not help much but should prevent the worst.

The Gate - Source Voltage of the IRF510 will not rise above 14 Volt at 28 V supply Voltage. The two 10 K resistors act as a Voltage divider.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: skycollection on June 25, 2013, 02:39:51 PM
I have a correction.......the mosfet number is IRF 530....! but for the case i think is the same...!
jorge
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: conradelektro on June 25, 2013, 02:45:36 PM
I have a correction.......the mosfet number is IRF 530....! but for the case i think is the same...!
jorge

Maximum Gate Source Voltage of IRF530 is also 20 Volt, Conrad

http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.net/datasheets/400/283721_DS.pdf
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: skycollection on June 25, 2013, 02:53:57 PM
I have other question.....why you connect (in the battery charger) the negative pole to the positive line of current...? why not to the ground....?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: conradelektro on June 25, 2013, 03:03:31 PM
I have other question.....why you connect (in the battery charger) the negative pole to the positive line of current...? why not to the ground....?

Because the battery is charged with the "Back Electromotive Force" Voltage (counter electromotive force). This current comes out of the coil in the reverse direction (of the drive current). For this charging current the positive rail is the ground. Or said differently, the Voltage after the charging diode is above the positive rail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-electromotive_force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-electromotive_force)

I attach the Bedini standard circuit, where you can see the reverse connection of the battery to be charged. Your circuit is in essence the Bedini circuit (with a Hall sensor instead of the trigger coil).

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: skycollection on June 25, 2013, 04:37:59 PM
Ok, i have two news.....one bad and one good
1.- the bad news is that the circuit SELFRUNNING with capacitor IT DOESN´T WORK...i used a capacitor of 52,000 uf 30 volts, and i only see that the current charge 13.4 volts and when i disconnect the run battery, the rotor stop...!
2.- I am in a BLACK HOLE, but now, this morning, I LEARN MORE....! the good news is that i KNOW FOR FIRST TIME HOW IT WORKS THE BACK EMF and now i am charging one battery with very good results...! THE FLAT RODIN COIL is good, and the rotor works very fast, 14,000 rpm AND THIS IS AMAZING TO CHARGE A BATTERY...!


SALUDOS
JORGE
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: conradelektro on June 25, 2013, 05:24:43 PM
Ok, i have two news.....one bad and one good
1.- the bad news is that the circuit SELFRUNNING with capacitor IT DOESN´T WORK...i used a capacitor of 52,000 uf 30 volts, and i only see that the current charge 13.4 volts and when i disconnect the run battery, the rotor stop...!
2.- I am in a BLACK HOLE, but now, this morning, I LEARN MORE....! the good news is that i KNOW FOR FIRST TIME HOW IT WORKS THE BACK EMF and now i am charging one battery with very good results...! THE FLAT RODIN COIL is good, and the rotor works very fast, 14,000 rpm AND THIS IS AMAZING TO CHARGE A BATTERY...!


SALUDOS
JORGE

Hi Jorge,

Ad 1.) It was important that you did the experiment with the large electrolytic capacitor parallel to the run battery. All people who claim OU could have done a similar experiment in order to see that their contraption in fact consumes energy (instead of producing more than is put in). So, whenever you think you get more out than you put in, you can try to run the thing with a capacitor and you will quickly see what is really happening. I did this experiment several times and it taught me a lot.

Ad 2.) It is possible to charge an "external capacitor" or an "external battery" ("external" means, it is not the supply source) to a very high Voltage and it is intriguing. But I measured just recently that charging the external cap" or "external battery" needs energy (the circuit uses more energy from the supply source whenever something is charged). The energy put into the "external cap" or "external battery" always comes from the supply source and is always less than is supplied, although the possible high Voltag is astonishing. One can charge an external cap to several hundred Volts if the drive coil is driven with 10 to 20 Watt at 12 Volt.

See at http://www.overunity.com/13523/has-anyone-seen-lasersabers-new-motor-runs-on-1000uf-cap/msg363634/#msg363634

Also this test might be interesting for you:
http://www.overunity.com/13523/has-anyone-seen-lasersabers-new-motor-runs-on-1000uf-cap/msg363629/#msg363629

General remark:

Your magnet bearings and your various coils are very beautiful and well fabricated. And I guess it is fun to experiment with them. But one should be very careful to claim OU. The power supplied to your circuits is quite easy to measure (with an Ampere-Meter) because it is direct current. But it is very diffcult to measure the output accurately because it is "pulses". So, many people think they get more out than they put in. Also "light" is not a good method for measuring the output. The human eye sees something as "bright" even at less than peak light output. So, a 20 Watt lamp or LED might seem to be brightly lit at 5 Watt.

I also think that it is good to share the tests and set ups with others because there are most likely people who have done it before and they can give you good advice. It is almost sure that you will not give away a secret worth keeping, but you loose a lot of time without the knowledge of others.

I have nothing against trying the impossible, but secrecy will not help you, it will cause you loss of time and many false avenues which you will follow for nothing, because it is already known that it does not work.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on June 25, 2013, 09:33:30 PM




Qoute from Tinsel Koala on the self loop toroid:



"Now that is interesting. With the toroidal winding you should not be getting very much magnetic flux leakage, but you can be driving the core into and out of saturation, and also getting some additional augmentation from the field of the rotating sphere magnet.
In other words, you might have a core-effect pulse motor, self-triggering, with the internal spherical magnet as its rotor. It's like a Steorn Orbo core-effect pulse motor, only much better!

If, that is, I am right about it running from the core effect rather than flux leakage from the toroid acting as an electromagnet. "


"At a certain threshold of angular velocity, the magnetic vortex sets up an inter-dimensional energy portal through a vortex resonance".


Explanation of Faraday's Homopolar generator!


The spinning magnet sphere gains weight as it accelerates. The centripital forces are massive. Quantum equalization may release electrical current from the atomic structure of the neodydmium elements in the spinning magnet sphere, and account for the increase in source power from 11.35 to 11.37 volts in the last part of this self loop video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEtnFn6TAzs
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MileHigh on June 25, 2013, 09:39:18 PM
Conrad:

http://www.overunity.com/13551/magnet-coil-cores-demagnetization-power-and-lenz-delay/msg363833/#msg363833 (http://www.overunity.com/13551/magnet-coil-cores-demagnetization-power-and-lenz-delay/msg363833/#msg363833)

When I look at your schematic in reply #14, I see the following:

When the IRF510 MOSFET switches off, the coil discharges current out the bottom of the coil, then it flows through the one branch of the rectifier, then it flows through the red diode, and then it flows back into the top of the coil.  That is the current loop that occurs when the coil discharges.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: conradelektro on June 26, 2013, 08:44:15 AM
Conrad:

http://www.overunity.com/13551/magnet-coil-cores-demagnetization-power-and-lenz-delay/msg363833/#msg363833 (http://www.overunity.com/13551/magnet-coil-cores-demagnetization-power-and-lenz-delay/msg363833/#msg363833)

When I look at your schematic in reply #14, I see the following:

When the IRF510 MOSFET switches off, the coil discharges current out the bottom of the coil, then it flows through the one branch of the rectifier, then it flows through the red diode, and then it flows back into the top of the coil.  That is the current loop that occurs when the coil discharges.

MileHigh

You might be right, there has to be a reason why feeding back the "self inductance of the coil" to the drive battery never works. Whenever I tried something along this line the result was "more current consumed from the drive battery" than without the "feedback attempt".

Also Reed switches instead of transistor-switching did not help. The "self inductance back kick" from the coil seems to be more pronounced with a Reed switch (at least at low power), but that also can not be fed back to the drive battery. I even doubt that the Ossi motor circuit really feeds back electricity to the drive battery.

But I am no expert, I just try to replicate some ideas I see in the OU forums. It's a hobby, not a serious attempt to build an OU machine. I do not claim anything with the circuits I show and discuss and very often I make an error. I also have no OU theory which I would defend.

If you have an idea how Jorge (Skycollection) can feed back electricity to the drive battery with his circuit, please tell us and him (by making corrections to his drive circuit). He will probably try it and I might try it with my contraptions.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: skycollection on June 26, 2013, 03:22:18 PM
Yes is correct, i would like to see the corrections in my circuit and perhaps i can make other experiments...! i am working in a mechanical switching  to charge a larger capacitor, i hope i can make it, because i burned 3 big reed swtches very fast....!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: skycollection on June 26, 2013, 03:28:04 PM
This is my second driver circuit, i hope it serves for the corrections....!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: conradelektro on June 26, 2013, 10:01:44 PM
This is my second driver circuit, i hope it serves for the corrections....!

Jorge,

attached please find the modified circuit for "charging a battery" and for 24 V operation (2K in front of Hall sensor and 10 K resistor as a Voltage divider for the base of the MOSFET).

I do not believe in mechanical switching.  Put a 0.1 µF or 0.2 µF capacitor parallel to the mechanical switch to make it last longer.

For feeding back to the drive battery just take away the "charging battery" (only a diode from MOSFET DRAIN to the positive rail), but it will not work. Unfortunately I do not know how to successfully "feed back" the "self inductance of a coil" to the drive battery. I think nobody knows.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MileHigh on June 27, 2013, 01:06:46 AM
Conrad:

I hope that when you use a diode to direct the discharging energy from a coil that you look at your schematic and work out how the current will flow.  Don't make any assumptions, that's unwise when you discuss electronics.

The Ossie motor multiple-diode configuration can route the coil discharge energy back to the source battery.  It may give you a longer run time because of that but that's all, there will be no magic.  I know that many people built replications and had hopes of over unity but that was never going to happen.

Conrad and Jorge:

Your new schematic will charge the charging battery.  If you are interested you should measure the power the supply battery puts into the motor, and the power that goes to the charging battery.  Comparing the two gives you some meaningful data.

Beyond that, as Farmhand has stated in the past; a motor that just spins and has no useful output does not really do anything.  So that's something for you to think about.  Is there any interest in building some kind of motor that does something useful?

MileHigh
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: totoalas on June 27, 2013, 02:11:37 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKrL4VCjSXU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKrL4VCjSXU)
 E MAG MOTOR AT LOW RPM
can be done but how????
 
totoalas :)
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on June 28, 2013, 05:31:57 AM

Although not the purpose of the video, around 2:10 into it he maintains his magnet core speeds the rotor up 25%.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7rsb0Q9thw[/size]
Title: COMPRESSED SPIRAL RODIN STARSHIP COIL
Post by: skycollection on May 15, 2014, 02:31:24 PM
COMPRESSED RODIN STARSHIP COIL IS PHYSICALLY ANOTHER COIL, IS A "SPIRAL" COMPRESSED COIL...!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkFk265MMU0


SALUDOS
FROM MEXICO, JORGE REBOLLEDO
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on June 22, 2014, 04:52:36 PM
Apparently no Lenz drag!

An E core acts as the magnet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4hOlUzrY4I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4hOlUzrY4I)
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on June 23, 2014, 02:15:50 PM

Quote from Mariuscivic:

"The input is 12V/118mA.
The output is 1.7V and just enough curent to lit the led.
The idea is that at the right distance , the coil is not seen by the rotor".

"At the right distance , the coil is not seen by the rotor"

The E core directs a vectored magnetic field through the solenoid  output coil at 90 degrees, like a diametric core magnet would. This mid coil magnetic hurdle retards the pole shift and hides the output coil from the "Lenz Drag". The "E" core manufactures a field at a right angle to the axis of the output coil. The diametric PM output coil core accomplishes the same thing! Both lateral fields slow the timing of the pole reversal in the output coil. This allows the rotor to slip by the grab spot.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on November 29, 2014, 11:53:56 PM
@MarkE,
 
I resurrected this old thread of mine to answer the question you posed on the Pulse Motor Build off thread.

Quote from MarkE from the "Pulse Motor Build off Thread":
 
"Synchro, magnetic viscosity is a loss mechanism.  It can be modeled as either a force that opposes the motion, IE like friction it always points against the direction of motion, or it can alternatively be modeled as a magnetic field that always opposes change in the actual magnetic field.  Again that acts as a loss". 
 
@MarkE,
This was a good thread, but the page grew oversized somehow. I'm going to ask Stephan to try and fix it before I respond.
 
 
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: ramset on November 30, 2014, 12:54:40 AM
Synchro


At one time we went out of our way here to be respectful and try to keep things Neat and on topic,
finding people to contribute [engineers ,scientists  etc] got harder and harder as that respect
 protocol changed.
we use to start other topics,even had shadow threads on other forums to try and make things more respectful.[I did this here all the time a few years back]


eventually some of us just went and worked privately away from all the noise,we slowly gathered all the resources necessary to cover almost any topic.
it has worked absolutely amazing


and we would like to bring that here ,it will take time But we have started negotiations [not with admin],with certain members who contribute and build here.


I will remove this post and just leave a thank you in a day or so.
I will be starting another topic to discuss this as well as the Bill Alek and GDS threads and there true intent at this forum [the reason I started them.]
then we can decide how this will look.
thx
Chet
PS
of course it can always go back to this Model...


 However it has become quite clear that there are those who would share in a more respectful venue ,
and also quite clear there are those who would support such a venue [NOT TALKING ABOUT COMPETING HERE WITH STEFAN or opening another forum !!!!]


and of course the goal as always is open source .









Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on November 30, 2014, 06:29:12 PM
@MarkE,

Take a close look at this JLN test:

JLN's sliding the coil down an iron core. He gets the "Lenz Delay" at 30mm. My question to you is;
What effect would placing a magnet at the end of the core have on the distance for the DLE effect?
Would it shorten the length increase the length or have no effect on the length?
 
http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE19en.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE19en.htm)
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: ramset on November 30, 2014, 08:22:22 PM
Synchro


can we bury the hatchet here,[or the cheeseburger] draw a line between what has gone before and what will happen next?
in the interest of piece and actually getting some answers for you?


we have some people who could add some very interesting comments here.[and peer reviewed work]
and we have some projects that Hover all around this topic...


But We will also need you to sort things out with Mr.Koala,


can you burry the Hatchet?? [and not in anybodies head]
I will not bring others or their work to an embarrassing Venue,[been there done that
way Too many times here.]
?


respectfully
Chet


 
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on November 30, 2014, 09:58:53 PM
Synchro


can we bury the hatchet here,[or the cheeseburger] draw a line between what has gone before and what will happen next?
in the interest of piece and actually getting some answers for you?


we have some people who could add some very interesting comments here.[and peer reviewed work]
and we have some projects that Hover all around this topic...


But We will also need you to sort things out with Mr.Koala,


can you burry the Hatchet?? [and not in anybodies head]
I will not bring others or their work to an embarrassing Venue,[been there done that
way Too many times here.]
?


respectfully
Chet

TK's just a punk!
 
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on November 30, 2014, 10:22:27 PM
Synchro


At one time we went out of our way here to be respectful and try to keep things Neat and on topic,
finding people to contribute [engineers ,scientists  etc] got harder and harder as that respect
 protocol changed.
we use to start other topics,even had shadow threads on other forums to try and make things more respectful.[I did this here all the time a few years back]


eventually some of us just went and worked privately away from all the noise,we slowly gathered all the resources necessary to cover almost any topic.
it has worked absolutely amazing


and we would like to bring that here ,it will take time But we have started negotiations [not with admin],with certain members who contribute and build here.


I will remove this post and just leave a thank you in a day or so.
I will be starting another topic to discuss this as well as the Bill Alek and GDS threads and there true intent at this forum [the reason I started them.]
then we can decide how this will look.
thx
Chet
PS
of course it can always go back to this Model...


 However it has become quite clear that there are those who would share in a more respectful venue ,
and also quite clear there are those who would support such a venue [NOT TALKING ABOUT COMPETING HERE WITH STEFAN or opening another forum !!!!]


and of course the goal as always is open source .
Chet, it is painfully obvious that neither Greg Potter nor Bill Alek have what they claim.  I give Bill Alek a little more wiggle for believing what he says even though what he claims is not true.  Greg Poter has exhausted all his wiggle room.  He's just lying.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: ramset on November 30, 2014, 10:28:55 PM
Synchro
Resume play
Your on your own.


for the record,I have not followed your interactions with Tinsel whatsoever .
Life is too short and time to important for me to take your position.[sophomoric Name calling}


I have great respect for Tinsel's integrity ,knowledge base and build skills.
He actually builds and tests ideas here !!
 I personally would welcome his input on appropriate projects and in the very near future will be dedicating much time towards this very worthwhile goal.
that goal being to get OPEN SOURCE projects with  Teeth on his Menu.
besides Cheeesy Burgers.....


your loss IMO


Respectfully
Chet
PS
from what I have recently read ,if this were a more formal [contractual] Cheeseburger challenge
you would most definitely be held liable for said Cheeseburger .


Properly liable that is...


but ... T'was a mere  Cheesy bet [gentlemen s] ,not a formal Cheeseburger  Challenge...


Formal cheeseburger challenges are time consuming process's
they must be certified and witnessed by independent 3rd party's ,such 3rd party's are typically men of character and impeccable moral fiber...








Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on November 30, 2014, 10:41:16 PM
@MarkE,

Take a close look at this JLN test:

JLN's sliding the coil down an iron core. He gets the "Lenz Delay" at 30mm. My question to you is;
What effect would placing a magnet at the end of the core have on the distance for the DLE effect?
Would it shorten the length increase the length or have no effect on the length?
 
http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE19en.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE19en.htm)
The explanation is that the experiment does not evaluate what it claims.  When transferring energy or continuous power between a source and a load, the impedance matching of the source and the load determine what percentage of the available power from the source flows to the load.  Under circumstances where there is a large mismatch then the larger impedance of the two dominates.  This is the case for example with the electrical loads in your home connected to the power utility.

By moving the shorted coil around over the iron rod, JLN changes the coupling impedance and efficiency.  What he doesn't do is get is an effect where induction is delayed.  Induction delays development of force in the direction of motion, which is as I previously described, always against the direction of motion and therefore always a braking effect.

This experiment is likened by JLN to some of Thane Heins experiments as well it should.  Thane Heins has done a number of experiments where by biasing magnetic materials he reduces the BEMF / torque constants of various motors.  Driven by a fixed voltage supply and lightly loaded by only bearing friction and windage, the result is to increase the free running speed of those motors while reducing their torque at any current.  The effect is similar to what happens when one winds a motor with fewer turns of wire. 
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on November 30, 2014, 10:44:01 PM

TK's just a punk!
Whether you like TK or not, he does a very good job of backing his claims with repeatable experiments.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on November 30, 2014, 10:54:50 PM
The explanation is that the experiment does not evaluate what it claims.  When transferring energy or continuous power between a source and a load, the impedance matching of the source and the load determine what percentage of the available power from the source flows to the load.  Under circumstances where there is a large mismatch then the larger impedance of the two dominates.  This is the case for example with the electrical loads in your home connected to the power utility.

By moving the shorted coil around over the iron rod, JLN changes the coupling impedance and efficiency.  What he doesn't do is get is an effect where induction is delayed.  Induction delays development of force in the direction of motion, which is as I previously described, always against the direction of motion and therefore always a braking effect.

This experiment is likened by JLN to some of Thane Heins experiments as well it should.  Thane Heins has done a number of experiments where by biasing magnetic materials he reduces the BEMF / torque constants of various motors.  Driven by a fixed voltage supply and lightly loaded by only bearing friction and windage, the result is to increase the free running speed of those motors while reducing their torque at any current.  The effect is similar to what happens when one winds a motor with fewer turns of wire.

F=MA, Force equals mass times acceleration. When the rotor speeds up the force increases.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: minnie on November 30, 2014, 11:12:58 PM



   My question is: How can you delay something that has happened?
   How can you employ something which depletes your prime objective?
                           John.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on November 30, 2014, 11:49:03 PM
Look at JLN's 2sGen. We see magnets, a coil wraped nano perm toroid and an output coil. Look at the output interval compared to the pulse width on the scope shot. It's 7 or 8 times as long. The DPDT relay needs the same ratio of output to pulse lag time to recover all the power from the demagnetization of the magnetite core in the GAP power coil of kEhYo. The demagnetization output is generated on the quanta plane through an atomic reordering process. JLN calculates a COP of 8 x OU from that scope shot. This is simple to achieve by reducing the rotor magnets to 2, and leaving the DPDT relay normally closed to output to the storage for 180 degrees. 
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on November 30, 2014, 11:55:41 PM


   My question is: How can you delay something that has happened?
   How can you employ something which depletes your prime objective?
                           John.

You create distance. The further a gun's fired from your ear the longer it takes for the noise to reach you.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 01, 2014, 12:20:34 AM
Here's the link to the GAP motor video. kEhYo has a Hall effect sensor and mosfet powering one strand of a bifilar coil, the other strand gathers output from the pole reversal. My design calls for a single wire coil and a DPDT Reed Relay. The relay wires to the battery for the neutralization pulse, then goes normally open to a storage capacitor.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxrJoGZy1to (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxrJoGZy1to)
 
Here's a link for a DPDT Reed Relay:
 
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/reed-relays/3491774/ (http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/reed-relays/3491774/)
 
The Reed Relay has eight pins. Two of the pins are for mounting and are inert. The GAP motor would have the two neutralization coils in series, leaving two leads which would solder to the center pins. The battery in series with a potentiometer would attach to the normally open pins on one end, and the storage capacitor in series with a fast switching diode would attach to the normally closed set of pins on the other end. The Reed Relay triggers from one pole and that's the pole you want to face out from the monopole rotor. You can easily test the relay for the closed side with a battery and 12 volt light bulb. Also the trigger pole polarity.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 01, 2014, 12:50:34 AM

F=MA, Force equals mass times acceleration. When the rotor speeds up the force increases.
Sure it is and does, but that does not equate to JLN's set-up evaluating the supposed LENZ delay that he claims.  We could start with the fact that if anything were affected it would be the Faraday Induction.  Lenz refers only to the direction of induced current, not whether or not induction occurs or is somehow delayed.  But the big deal here is that he is just changing coupling coefficients in an inefficient system and noting where he gets better or worse results.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 01, 2014, 01:09:27 AM
Look at JLN's 2sGen. We see magnets, a coil wraped nano perm toroid and an output coil. Look at the output interval compared to the pulse width on the scope shot. It's 7 or 8 times as long. The DPDT relay needs the same ratio of output to pulse lag time to recover all the power from the demagnetization of the magnetite core in the GAP power coil of kEhYo. The demagnetization output is generated on the quanta plane through an atomic reordering process. JLN calculates a COP of 8 x OU from that scope shot. This is simple to achieve by reducing the rotor magnets to 2, and leaving the DPDT relay normally closed to output to the storage for 180 degrees.
Synchro1 I plotted the V*T area of both the on pulse and the flyback pulse and they match as expected.  Energy only comes out of the coil when the voltage is above the supply (red in the picture).  Energy goes into the coil when the voltage is below the supply (green).  The oscillations represent energy sloshing back and forth between the inductance and parasitic capacitance of the circuit.  The rest of the time the coil is neither taking energy from the power supply nor taking it from the load.  This is acting like an ordinary voltage boost converter.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 01, 2014, 01:13:48 AM

You create distance. The further a gun's fired from your ear the longer it takes for the noise to reach you.
The trouble there is that the transit velocity is constant (let's not get picky about humidity and air pressure over time) and the distance is constant leading to a constant delay between any event and the observer.  There is not any distance you can locate the observer where the receive free energy due to their position.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 01, 2014, 01:17:36 AM
Here's the link to the GAP motor video. kEhYo has a Hall effect sensor and mosfet powering one strand of a bifilar coil, the other strand gathers output from the pole reversal. My design calls for a single wire coil and a DPDT Reed Relay. The relay wires to the battery for the neutralization pulse, then goes normally open to a storage capacitor.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxrJoGZy1to (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxrJoGZy1to)
 
Here's a link for a DPDT Reed Relay:
 
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/reed-relays/3491774/ (http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/reed-relays/3491774/)
 
The Reed Relay has eight pins. Two of the pins are for mounting and are inert. The GAP motor would have the two neutralization coils in series, leaving two leads which would solder to the center pins. The battery in series with a potentiometer would attach to the normally open pins on one end, and the storage capacitor in series with a fast switching diode would attach to the normally closed set of pins on the other end. The Reed Relay triggers from one pole and that's the pole you want to face out from the monopole rotor. You can easily test the relay for the closed side with a battery and 12 volt light bulb. Also the trigger pole polarity.
If you are happy with mechanical contacts that is fine.  Personally, I would wire up transistors in order to close down the timing variability and problems with contact bounce.
I've watched that video before and found nothing out of the ordinary.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 01, 2014, 01:18:01 AM
Sure it is and does, but that does not equate to JLN's set-up evaluating the supposed LENZ delay that he claims.  We could start with the fact that if anything were affected it would be the Faraday Induction.  Lenz refers only to the direction of induced current, not whether or not induction occurs or is somehow delayed.  But the big deal here is that he is just changing coupling coefficients in an inefficient system and noting where he gets better or worse results.

As the rotor magnet approaches the output coil, a magnetic field appears in the coil that opposes the passage of the passing magnet. Positioning the output coil 30mm down an iron core delays the formation of the opposing field in the coil. This has nothing to do with current. The delay is in the output cole field development. The propulsion is a consequence of the field appearing late behind TDC resulting in a shove instead early in opposition causing drag. Lenz force can be positive or negative. Reversed it imparts a power pulse while still generating current in the output windings. This results in net gain.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 01, 2014, 01:30:04 AM

As the rotor magnet approaches the output coil, a
changing
Quote
magnetic field appears in  
cuts
Quote
the coil that opposes the passage of the passing magnet.
induces a  voltage and resulting current that opposes the change in magnetic field that created it.
Quote
   Positioning the output coil 30mm down a iron core
results in eddy currents in the rod that do the same thing, and while the eddy currents flow reduce the magnitude of the field that cuts through the coil creating the apparent delay.
Quote
delays the formation of the opposing field in the coil. This has nothing to do with current. The delay is in the output field development.
This apparent delay is an ordinary consequence of Faraday induction and Lenz' Law acting on the iron rod.
Quote
  The propulsion is a consequence of the field appearing late behind TDC resulting in a shove instead early in opposition causing drag.
This is claimed propulsion that the experiment does not actually demonstrate.
Quote
Lenz force can be positive or negative. Reversed it imparts a power pulse while still generating current in the output windings. This results in net gain.
Absolutely not.  Lenz' Law defines the direction of an induced voltage and it defines it in such a way that is consistent with Conservation of Energy.
Quote

Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 01, 2014, 01:45:32 AM
changingcutsinduces a  voltage and resulting current that opposes the change in magnetic field that created it. results in eddy currents in the rod that do the same thing, and while the eddy currents flow reduce the magnitude of the field that cuts through the coil creating the apparent delay. This apparent delay is an ordinary consequence of Faraday induction and Lenz' Law acting on the iron rod.This is claimed propulsion that the experiment does not actually demonstrate. Absolutely not.  Lenz' Law defines the direction of an induced voltage and it defines it in such a way that is consistent with Conservation of Energy.

Says you!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 01, 2014, 01:51:10 AM
The magnetite core needs a longer interval to totally demagnetize. The de-escalating crescendo is still returning output power past the area you colored in red.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 01, 2014, 01:58:27 AM
"I would wire up transistors in order to close down the timing variability and problems with contact bounce"

Transistors are notoriously sluggish and inefficient compared to mechanical contacts. The separation of the mechanical contact points generates a very clean square wave compared to a gummy transistor.
 
 
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 01, 2014, 04:43:27 AM

Says you!
Synchro1 if you want help designing an experiment that will tell you the truth, then I am willing to do that.  If you just want a food fight, then I will defer.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 01, 2014, 04:45:11 AM
The magnetite core needs a longer interval to totally demagnetize. The de-escalating crescendo is still returning output power past the area you colored in red.
And you establish that how?  Where are measurements that support your idea?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 01, 2014, 04:47:58 AM
"I would wire up transistors in order to close down the timing variability and problems with contact bounce"

Transistors are notoriously sluggish and inefficient compared to mechanical contacts. The separation of the mechanical contact points generates a very clean square wave compared to a gummy transistor.
Mechanical contacts bounce for up to multiple milliseconds and an also arc for up to many milliseconds.  A well designed transistor power switch operating at these levels can easily turn on and off in a tenth of a microsecond.  In other words a well designed transistor switch will make a stable transition thousands of times faster than mechanical contacts.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 01, 2014, 10:38:46 AM
And yet... a good fast risetime pulse generator from last century uses a mercury-wetted reed switch to generate the nanosecond-risetime pulses.
For example the Tektronix Type 109, with a risetime of 250 picoseconds, using just such a switch:

http://www.ivorcatt.co.uk/x212.pdf (http://www.ivorcatt.co.uk/x212.pdf)
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 01, 2014, 10:59:50 AM
And yet... a good fast risetime pulse generator from last century uses a mercury-wetted reed switch to generate the nanosecond-risetime pulses.
For example the Tektronix Type 109, with a risetime of 250 picoseconds, using just such a switch:

http://www.ivorcatt.co.uk/x212.pdf (http://www.ivorcatt.co.uk/x212.pdf)
Mercury-wetted contacts are in a completely different class than ordinary reeds.  Fifty years ago when the 109 was designed power MOSFETs did not exist.  The memory in your desktop or laptop computer has much faster rise and fall times:  ~70ps - 100ps than the 109's 250ps.  Fast current generation TDR's offer pulse rise times under 10ps.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 01, 2014, 11:10:56 AM
Yep, and those old mercury-wetted reed switches are costly too, if you can find them. I think the for the last 109 I repaired, the NOS reed switch cost something over 100 dollars.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 01, 2014, 05:31:02 PM
The trouble there is that the transit velocity is constant (let's not get picky about humidity and air pressure over time) and the distance is constant leading to a constant delay between any event and the observer.  There is not any distance you can locate the observer where the receive free energy due to their position.

Here's a great video on the Wesley Gary effect proving you wrong:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACykTfXspfM&index=7&list=FL3v-1RhhS50L5H2_FYFFBqQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACykTfXspfM&index=7&list=FL3v-1RhhS50L5H2_FYFFBqQ)
 
The Reed Relay comes in multiple designs, some with slider points and springs. The industrial current reversing variety is designed to very high tolerance. The transistor requires a power source and eats juice.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 01, 2014, 06:04:30 PM
A tiny relay coil at the back of the magnet stack would allow for re-positioning to the neutral zone without physically moving the coil. Reducing the power to the tiny backing coil would have the same effect as moving the entire coil away from the rotor. Fine tuning can be accomplished this way for "Lenz Propulsion" output. Mark maintains this is a zero sum approach. My experiments prove there's net gain.

Four magnet core GAP coils and a two pole rotor would deliver the same power as well as extend the demagnetization interval as kEhYo's version.
 
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 01, 2014, 06:21:24 PM

Here's a great video on the Wesley Gary effect proving you wrong:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACykTfXspfM&index=7&list=FL3v-1RhhS50L5H2_FYFFBqQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACykTfXspfM&index=7&list=FL3v-1RhhS50L5H2_FYFFBqQ)
 
The Reed Relay comes in multiple designs, some with slider points and springs. The industrial current reversing variety is designed to very high tolerance. The transistor requires a power source and eats juice.
Just what is it in that video that you think refutes what I have been saying?  The video does not measure induction.  It makes no direct measure of force or torque.

All switching mechanisms use power.  Some sap it mechanically, some sap it electrically, some do a bit of both.  Mechanical contacts have the problems and limitations that I have explained.  If you can live with those limitations then great.  If they represent a problem then use a different method that does not have those problems and limitations.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 01, 2014, 06:24:53 PM
A tiny relay coil at the back of the magnet stack would allow for re-positioning to the neutral zone without physically moving the coil. Reducing the power to the tiny backing coil would have the same effect as moving the entire coil away from the rotor. Fine tuning can be accomplished this way for "Lenz Propulsion" output. Mark maintains this is a zero sum approach. My experiments prove there's net gain.

Four magnet core GAP coils and a two pole rotor would deliver the same power as well as extend the demagnetization interval as kEhYo's version.
If you are convinced that you can "delay Lenz" in such a way as to gain energy then:  Diagram up your experiment set-up, describe how you collect data, describe your null experiments, and publish your test data.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 01, 2014, 08:54:14 PM
Just what is it in that video that you think refutes what I have been saying?  The video does not measure induction.  It makes no direct measure of force or torque.

All switching mechanisms use power.  Some sap it mechanically, some sap it electrically, some do a bit of both.  Mechanical contacts have the problems and limitations that I have explained.  If you can live with those limitations then great.  If they represent a problem then use a different method that does not have those problems and limitations.

"MarkE,
 
The video shows merely an unfinished portion of the entire Wesly Gary device. The original produced perpetual motion that was well documented at the time by science observers and journalists. The video shows basicly two horseshoe magnets facing one another in counter polaity so they are suspended by mutual attraction. One magnet is attached to a hinge. The metal shield is raised between these two horsehoe magnets inside the neutral zone where no attraction to either horsehoe magnet is in effect. This disengages the hinged magnet and it falls away. The original used the force of the descending shield to reraise the hinged magnet.
 
The point is, the magnet rotor is blind to the magnet core coil inside the neutral zone, an area of perhaps one sixteenth of an inch in width. However, the coil windings are effected by rotor induction. The high magnetic viscosity of the magnet backed core causes a Delay in the coils normal pole formation and produces instead a propulsion.
 
The elegance of the current GAP motor design couples the power and output in one coil eliminating the need for an auxilliary power source such as a D.C. motor which would need to be declutched to allow free wheeling of the rotor.
 
The Flynn Parallel path technology may help reduce the input to the Neutral Zone electromagnetic positioner coil at the back of the magnet stack.
 
Let me add MarkE that I appreciate your help.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 01, 2014, 10:27:25 PM
More rotor magnets will help lower the "Lenz Delay" threshold RPM and less magnets will increase the demagnetization interval. Consider this; Everyone has seen demonstrations of rotor speed up under load. Once the multi maget rotor is spinning fast enough, if we pull the DPDT Reed Relay back away from the rotor in the normally closed position open to the storage capacitor, and adjust the tiny positioner coil field strenght on the back of the core magnets to the Neutral Zone and experience rotor speed up, how can it not be a self runner at that point? Think about it. I've been perversly ridiculed as a cumpulsive lier and psychotic, but I moved the rotor in the sphere spinner spiral away from the power coil. How can the 'Lenz Propulsion" overcome the drag of a prime mover like a DC motor or anything. It's not difficult to achieve rotor speed up, if it's a free wheeling rotor how can it not be powering itself if the rotor's accelerating with zero input?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 02, 2014, 12:20:41 AM

"MarkE,
 
The video shows merely an unfinished portion of the entire Wesly Gary device. The original produced perpetual motion that was well documented at the time by science observers and journalists. The video shows basicly two horseshoe magnets facing one another in counter polaity so they are suspended by mutual attraction. One magnet is attached to a hinge. The metal shield is raised between these two horsehoe magnets inside the neutral zone where no attraction to either horsehoe magnet is in effect. This disengages the hinged magnet and it falls away. The original used the force of the descending shield to reraise the hinged magnet.
 
The point is, the magnet rotor is blind to the magnet core coil inside the neutral zone, an area of perhaps one sixteenth of an inch in width. However, the coil windings are effected by rotor induction. The high magnetic viscosity of the magnet backed core causes a Delay in the coils normal pole formation and produces instead a propulsion.
 
The elegance of the current GAP motor design couples the power and output in one coil eliminating the need for an auxilliary power source such as a D.C. motor which would need to be declutched to allow free wheeling of the rotor.
 
The Flynn Parallel path technology may help reduce the input to the Neutral Zone electromagnetic positioner coil at the back of the magnet stack.
 
Let me add MarkE that I appreciate your help.
I hope that you understand that pointing to one machine as an example of something and then saying that it is a different machine that has the desired behavior doesn't really provide evidence.  The permeable material, IE pole shoe goes up and down and with it the coupling between the left and right side magnets to the pole shoe increase and decreases and we see the right piece pivot.  Nothing about that looks unexpected to me.  If the claim is that the conductivity or magnetic viscosity of material used causes energy to be stored as opposed to dissipated the necessary measurements to show such a thing are missing.

The premise that you hypothesize as I understand it is that not only is energy stored without loss, but that there is an energy gain realized by the mechanism you are calling "Lenz delay".  If that understanding is wrong then please clarify.  My contention is that sufficiently accurate measurements will always show that not only does such a gain not occur but that in each case energy is dissipated.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 02, 2014, 12:32:04 AM
More rotor magnets will help lower the "Lenz Delay" threshold RPM and less magnets will increase the demagnetization interval. Consider this; Everyone has seen demonstrations of rotor speed up under load. Once the multi maget rotor is spinning fast enough, if we pull the DPDT Reed Relay back away from the rotor in the normally closed position open to the storage capacitor, and adjust the tiny positioner coil field strenght on the back of the core magnets to the Neutral Zone and experience rotor speed up, how can it not be a self runner at that point? Think about it. I've been perversly ridiculed as a cumpulsive lier and psychotic, but I moved the rotor in the sphere spinner spiral away from the power coil. How can the 'Lenz Propulsion" overcome the drag of a prime mover like a DC motor or anything. It's not difficult to achieve rotor speed up, if it's a free wheeling rotor how can it not be powering itself if the rotor's accelerating with zero input?
Well a self-runner should be self-evident shouldn't it?  It should just keep going and going and going without external power input.

It is very easy to get fooled by some of these effects.  A number of Thane Heins demonstrations show what happens when one is able to manipulate the BEMF constant AKA motor constant of a motor while it is being driven by a constant voltage source.  A DC motor will under light or no load conditions pretty much spin up to a speed where the product of the motor speed and the BEMF constant match the supply voltage.  So, if we reduce the BEMF constant, the motor spins faster.  Now think about what that means.  It means that the generator analog of the motor is producing a voltage just a little bit less than the supply voltage, and the difference voltage applied across the winding resistance is developing just enough current to result in enough torque to overcome the motor losses.  Because the generator voltage is less than the supply, the instant that we try to close the loop, the motor will have less voltage driving it, the current will drop, the losses will decelerate the motor and the generator voltage will further drop in a spiral down to zero speed. 

If the motor really started self-sustaining, then two things would happen:  The motor current would go negative and the motor would speed up until either a new higher speed equilibrium occurs as the battery or power supply loads the motor or the motor just accelerates to destruction.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 02, 2014, 03:07:39 AM
Well a self-runner should be self-evident shouldn't it?  It should just keep going and going and going without external power input.

It is very easy to get fooled by some of these effects.  A number of Thane Heins demonstrations show what happens when one is able to manipulate the BEMF constant AKA motor constant of a motor while it is being driven by a constant voltage source.  A DC motor will under light or no load conditions pretty much spin up to a speed where the product of the motor speed and the BEMF constant match the supply voltage.  So, if we reduce the BEMF constant, the motor spins faster.  Now think about what that means.  It means that the generator analog of the motor is producing a voltage just a little bit less than the supply voltage, and the difference voltage applied across the winding resistance is developing just enough current to result in enough torque to overcome the motor losses.  Because the generator voltage is less than the supply, the instant that we try to close the loop, the motor will have less voltage driving it, the current will drop, the losses will decelerate the motor and the generator voltage will further drop in a spiral down to zero speed. 

If the motor really started self-sustaining, then two things would happen:  The motor current would go negative and the motor would speed up until either a new higher speed equilibrium occurs as the battery or power supply loads the motor or the motor just accelerates to destruction.

I'm glad you raised that point MarkE. I covered the effect at length on my "Self Accelerating Reed Switch Magnet" thread. Be prepared for a close to traumatic future shock experience. Twinbeard's output core spinners raced to the hypersonic shattering point in only a matter of seconds. My spiral core output spinner is wraped Serial Bifilar and I believe the neo sphere speed stabilizes when the RPM matches the self resonating frequency of the coil. The GAP magnet core coil with the positioner should slow the acceleration simply by turning the positioner all the way up or fixing more back up magnets to the core stack.
 
The self acceleration effect will be followed by a runaway situation resulting in rotor disintigration. Preparations need to be taken in advance. My sprial coil has a PVC coupling and a wooden box for protection. Everyone should view the PVC coupling I encase the ceramic bearing tube spinner in. I haven't given any thought to a safty housing for this design yet. This is merely a build concept at this time. I'd need to build it myself and experiment with different types of protective housings. The optimal enclousure would surround both the coil and the rotor. The hyper speed up can lead to serious injury or fatality. Exercise extreme caution if you proceed with this kind of experimentation. I can't stress the need sufficiently, because skepticisem leads people into taking chances that should be avoided with proper safty measures. This is no joke folks!
 
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 02, 2014, 03:53:32 AM

I'm glad you raised that point MarkE. I covered the effect at length on my "Self Accelerating Reed Switch Magnet" thread. Be prepared for a close to traumatic future shock experience. Twinbeard's output core spinners raced to the hypersonic shattering point in only a matter of seconds. My spiral core output spinner is wraped Serial Bifilar and I believe the neo sphere speed stabilizes when the RPM matches the self resonating frequency of the coil. The GAP magnet core coil with the positioner should slow the acceleration simply by turning the positioner all the way up or fixing more back up magnets to the core stack.
 
The self acceleration effect will be followed by a runaway situation resulting in rotor disintigration. Preparations need to be taken in advance. My sprial coil has a PVC coupling and a wooden box for protection. Everyone should view the PVC coupling I encase the ceramic bearing tube spinner in. I haven't given any thought to a safty housing for this design yet. This is merely a build concept at this time. I'd need to build it myself and experiment with different types of protective housings. The optimal enclousure would surround both the coil and the rotor. The hyper speed up can lead to serious injury or fatality. Exercise extreme caution if you proceed with this kind of experimentation. I can't stress the need sufficiently, because skepticisem leads people into taking chances that should be avoided with proper safty measures. This is no joke folks!
So all you have to do at that point is show that the device is doing that on its own and not with power from the battery or power supply that you have hooked up to it.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 02, 2014, 04:12:45 AM
@MarkE,
 
You would accuse me of planting a hidden wireless transmitter or blowing compressed air or something else. You pull that sort of trick on JLN. Plus, I'm not your running dog! You can watch "Piratetwinbeard's" Speed Racer video if you want to witness the effect under test conditions. Milehigh was called an asshole by him for pulling the kind of crap you and TK bore me with. Call Judge Judy!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 02, 2014, 04:20:56 AM
@MarkE,
 
You would accuse me of planting a hidden wireless transmitter or blowing compressed air or something else. You pull that sort of trick on JLN. Plus, I'm not you're running dog!
Synchro1 reasonable people develop test protocols and perform replications to get to the bottom of extraordinary claims.  Nothing forces you to cooperate.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 02, 2014, 04:25:42 AM
Synchro1 reasonable people develop test protocols and perform replications to get to the bottom of extraordinary claims.  Nothing forces you to cooperate.

Reasonable people don't live on a hammock under a palm tree on the beach in Costa Rica!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 02, 2014, 04:31:58 AM

Reasonable people don't live on a hammock under a palm tree on the beach in Costa Rica!
Bob Vesco may have said that.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 02, 2014, 05:08:00 AM
He knows it cannot accelerate unless it is being provided with power from the outside, or is running on stored energy eg from a capacitor, which will be running down. That's why whenever you or I suggest an actual demonstration, he flails and bails.

Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 02, 2014, 05:31:24 AM
He knows it cannot accelerate unless it is being provided with power from the outside, or is running on stored energy eg from a capacitor, which will be running down. That's why whenever you or I suggest an actual demonstration, he flails and bails.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtCN1GWqtqg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtCN1GWqtqg)
 
Twinbeard's generating 1000 volts from his transformer at .160 amps in his speed racer video from a 1/8th" sphere rotating at 3 million RPM with milliwatts of input from "Lenz Propulsion" in his output coil core resulting from BEMF field distortion feedback. So go solder up another dime store novelty from cost saver junk parts, like your solar bar bird, and keep making cheap wisecracks.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MileHigh on December 02, 2014, 07:16:41 AM
These were my comments about the "three million RPM" clip from a few months ago:

-----------------
Twinbeard:

I looked at your clip again.  You measure 20 microseconds between the small spikes.  You don't make a single attempt to double-check that measurement.  You don't try changing the time base, you don't try changing the trigger level, you don't make any attempt to double check your scope probe connection, you don't try to check if there might be a 20 microsecond clock signal somewhere else in the circuit or perhaps even close to the circuit.  You notice (not you personally, I mean the generic "you") that sometimes on the display you see that spikes are completely missing in a regular pattern, like "missing teeth."  But if your rotating magnet ball is truly doing one revolution every 20 microseconds that should not be happening.  But you don't even question that.  If there are missing spikes then something certainly is amiss, but you don't do anything to investigate that mystery.

Then you state that you tweaked the trigger level and you end up with a stable display but there are still two missing spikes!  You almost certainly are not looking at the speed of he rotating ball magnet.  3,000,000 RPM is a ridiculous speed for just about any size of rotating magnet but you are seemingly numb and unaware as you correctly crunch the garbage-in-garbage-out numbers.

Then you look at the generator output and you see a waveform that looks like icicles in winter.  You don't even make an attempt to reduce your voltage scale, change your time base, adjust your trigger level and get a good waveform triggered from that channel.  You are supposed to know ahead of time that the expected waveform is a near-pure sine wave at that alleged frequency.  It looks like a compound waveform of some sort, perhaps two separate sine waves added together, with "low" and "high" peaks along with some amplitude modulation as the two sine waves beat with each other.  Why is that?  You don't even try to figure it out.

Okay so you have a bunch of transformers in the circuit.  Perhaps that partially explains the seeming total mess on the output waveform, but you don't care.  You put your hand near the multimeter and the current measurement skews.  That's not supposed to happen so it almost certainly means that measurement is junk but you don't care.  Are there any bandwidth issues with your multimeter when is trying to measure the very high-frequency AC current?  I bet that you don't know and you never checked.

To sum it up, your clip is a total disaster.  My best guess is that your setup was self-resonating at 50 KHz while a the same time the little ball magnet was turning at high speed, but at a much much lower speed than the ridiculous speed of 3,000,000 RPM.

If the ball was actually turning at 3,000,000 RPM, chances are that within 10 seconds you would smell burning plastic and the thing would spontaneously self-destruct from the heat due to friction.

So your clip leaves a lot to be desired.  I am giving you the real deal.
--------------------

Some of Twinbeard's response:

--------------------
Yeah, watch the videos that came after that one.  My instrumentation got better as well as the device, and my understanding of the processes evolved.  You will find answers to your objections there, because frankly, I have heard all this crap before.  Quite a few very intelligent people well versed in the applicable physics have seen the device in person, and examined it.  Not one has questioned the frequency of operation, particularly after hearing the air ripping around the rotor, which, alas does not come through in the videos due to ambient noise
--------------------

Synchro1, and others:  When you look at a clip you are looking for content and credibility, proper measurements, proper description, and so on.  Too many clips are very weak in many areas.  If you make a clip and it looks like you are not even trying to get a proper trigger and appropriate time base set up on your scope it's a huge issue.

All that you would have to have done in the Twinbeard clip would have been to attach your scope channel to a sniffer coil and poked around until you got a good looking and credible looking sine wave picked up from the rotating magnetic field of the spinning ball.  There is no way that ball was spinning at three million RPM.

I don't understand how you can look at that clip Synchro1 and not see how problematic it is.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 02, 2014, 08:10:02 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtCN1GWqtqg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtCN1GWqtqg)
 
Twinbeard's generating 1000 volts from his transformer at .160 amps in his speed racer video from a 1/8th" sphere rotating at 3 million RPM with milliwatts of input from "Lenz Propulsion" in his output coil core resulting from BEMF field distortion feedback. So go solder up another dime store novelty from cost saver junk parts, like your solar bar bird, and keep making cheap wisecracks.

I'm so glad I have your permission to build stuff and show what I build. Meanwhile you just go on building your Perpetual Motion Machine that always stops when the power is removed. Don't bother making proper measurements, they just confuse you --- and refute you.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 02, 2014, 08:26:12 AM
@MH: There clearly needs to be a valid measurement of the actual rotation of the sphere. We all (some of us) know how easy it is to have a system response that is some fraction of the stimulating signal, which is why I generally show readings from multiple instruments using different techniques when I'm talking about rotational speed if there is any possibility of doubt. Still, the speed itself is not nearly as important as the FACT that the sphere inevitably slows to a stop once the external power is removed.
I haven't calculated the centrifugal force on a 1/8 inch sphere spinning at 3,000,000 rpm but I'll bet it is pretty large. Is it possible for it to hold together at that speed? I don't know that either. I don't know the details of the sensing system that these claimants use, either. Is there any assurance whatsoever that the sphere isn't producing two spikes per revolution, since it has two magnetic poles passing the sensor? Or is the sensor even independent of the driving frequency? So I can see several possible sources of error in the cited figure. It's possible that the magnet is spinning at some fraction of the driving pulses, and it's possible that the sensor system is "overcounting" the revolutions. Without proper validating measurements of the speed, independent of the drive system, we'll never know. Without a cooperative attitude on the part of the claimant ... what is even the point of speculating? Wishes, horses, beggars, etc. It's clear that anyone can _say_ anything they want to say. Proving it is another story altogether, and that responsibility rests entirely with the claimant. And if the claimant simply doesn't want to, or is afraid to, or just cannot figure out how to... well, that proves some things right there, doesn't it.




Hey Synchro, you are falling behind on your "thumbs down" campaign. I'm making them faster than you can keep up, even when you don't even watch them before you click on your only tool: the downward pointing thumb.

Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 02, 2014, 04:19:24 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtCN1GWqtqg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtCN1GWqtqg)
 
Twinbeard's generating 1000 volts from his transformer at .160 amps in his speed racer video from a 1/8th" sphere rotating at 3 million RPM with milliwatts of input from "Lenz Propulsion" in his output coil core resulting from BEMF field distortion feedback. So go solder up another dime store novelty from cost saver junk parts, like your solar bar bird, and keep making cheap wisecracks.
His measurement set-up is deplorable.  He has stray RF corrupting his measurements all over the place.  The scope does not even appear to be triggered properly. 

The 3 million rpm statement is extremely ignorant at best.  The ball would be ripped apart at that kind of speed.

GIGO
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 02, 2014, 04:26:20 PM
The issue here is the liklyhood that an experimentor might sustain the risk of serious injury from run away self acceleration. Regardless of wether Twinbeard's scope readings are accurate or not, the obvious feature is that his spinner is accelerating inside the core of his output coil from forces other then the input to his power coil. I described my run away experience with the ceramic bearing spinner with the input amp meter needle "Pegged" solidly at zero.
 
The current GAP design has the potential to self power and accelerate to the disinigration point and needs a protective hood and a kill switch. I don't want you skeptics to nullify my cautioning. It's not outside the over all world of possibilities that a run away event will occur! I would cover the entire apparatus with a section of clear plexiglass pipe maybe 18 inches in diameter with a clear plexiglass cover glued on with a handle like a cake cover. I would also wire a kill switch between the output coil and capacitor. The positioner potentiometer should be placed outside the hood along with the kill switch and power pot.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 02, 2014, 04:50:21 PM
The issue here is the liklyhood that an experimentor might sustain the risk of serious injury from run away self acceleration. Regardless of wether Twinbeard's scope readings are accurate or not, the obvious feature is that his spinner is accelerating inside the core of his output coil from forces other then the input to his power coil. I described my run away experience with the ceramic bearing spinner with the input amp meter needle "Pegged" solidly at zero.
On what basis do you make those claims?  Twinbeard's measurements are garbage.  Take away those measurements and what do you see?  I see a crude motor.
Quote

The current GAP design has the potential to self power and accelerate to the disinigration point and needs a protective hood and a kill switch. I don't want you skeptics to nullify my cautioning. It's not outside the over all world of possibilities that a run away event will occur! I would cover the entire apparatus with a section of clear plexiglass pipe maybe 18 inches in diameter with a clear plexiglass cover glued on with a handle like a cake cover. I would also wire a kill switch between the output coil and capacitor. The positioner potentiometer should be placed outside the hood along with the kill switch and power pot.
well then someone who wants to test the idea should construct a test set-up that has appropriate safety precautions built in.  It is not so hard to design an eddy current brake, nor is it so hard to just get some thick plexiglass.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 03, 2014, 02:27:37 AM
@MarkE,

Answer this question: My run away effect Reed Switch motor consisted of a diametricly polarized tube magnet spinner on a race of precision bearings running at around 25K rpm. My 12 volt Reed Switch was wired in series with a 12 volt battery. What happened to the power coil when the Reed Switch stuck in the closed positon over the operating limit at that rpm range where the self acceleration started? Would you find it fair to say that the tiny thread spool air core series bifilar wraped coil then transitioned to function as an output coil?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 03, 2014, 03:12:50 AM
@MarkE,

Answer this question: My run away effect Reed Switch motor consisted of a diametricly polarized tube magnet spinner on a race of precision bearings running at around 25K rpm. My 12 volt Reed Switch was wired in series with a 12 volt battery. What happened to the power coil when the Reed Switch stuck in the closed positon over the operating limit at that rpm range where the self acceleration started? Would you find it fair to say that the tiny thread spool air core series bifilar wraped coil then transitioned to function as an output coil?
You've got two sentences that are difficult to parse.  Are you asking what happened when your commutator froze?  There should have been a large deceleration vector operating on your spinning mass, and that would have caused the thing to torque violently.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 03, 2014, 03:19:49 PM
@MarkE,

The question I asked was: Would it be fair to classify the coil as an "OUTPUT COIL" after the dead short to the battery? 
 
Let me add that I built the circuit as simply as possible just to test  the rotor bearings. The effct I described was unsought for and completely unanticipated.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 03, 2014, 07:01:28 PM
@MarkE,

The question I asked was: Would it be fair to classify the coil as an "OUTPUT COIL" after the dead short to the battery? 
 
Let me add that I built the circuit as simply as possible just to test  the rotor bearings. The effct I described was unsought for and completely unanticipated.
Do you have a schematic and /or pictures somewhere?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 03, 2014, 07:48:15 PM
@MarkE,

Help yourself to the "Bearingless Bedini" thread hosted by Jonny Davro on the Energetic forum.
 
Pilot skill is required to "Fly" the self accelerating rotor. The position of the coil needs to be constantly moved a very tiny amount to keep inside the "Neutral Zone" or the effect will vanish. I assume the coil transitions to ouput because the very powerfull 1" diameter neo tube at 25K is generating more power in the coil then the battery can deliver. "Lenz Delay" theory explains the propulsion. The 12 volt relay positioner located at the rear of the core's magnet stack on the GAP design would need to be piloted the same way. The "Neutral Zone" shifts it's position as the rotor flux increase with speed. Constant fine repositioning would be required to sustain the self acceleration.
 
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 05, 2014, 05:50:23 PM
Here's a very simple positioner concept:
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 05, 2014, 07:35:06 PM
@MarkE,

Help yourself to the "Bearingless Bedini" thread hosted by Jonny Davro on the Energetic forum.
 
Pilot skill is required to "Fly" the self accelerating rotor. The position of the coil needs to be constantly moved a very tiny amount to keep inside the "Neutral Zone" or the effect will vanish. I assume the coil transitions to ouput because the very powerfull 1" diameter neo tube at 25K is generating more power in the coil then the battery can deliver. "Lenz Delay" theory explains the propulsion. The 12 volt relay positioner located at the rear of the core's magnet stack on the GAP design would need to be piloted the same way. The "Neutral Zone" shifts it's position as the rotor flux increase with speed. Constant fine repositioning would be required to sustain the self acceleration.
Synchro1 if you are going to ask questions about something I think it is only fair that you present what it is that you are asking about.  If you want to pick something from over there and ask about it I think that is fine, but please either bring over here or point to the specific thing which interests you.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 05, 2014, 09:11:51 PM
Synchro1 if you are going to ask questions about something I think it is only fair that you present what it is that you are asking about.  If you want to pick something from over there and ask about it I think that is fine, but please either bring over here or point to the specific thing which interests you.

I'm through spoon feeding you. All you've done is cause trouble. Everyone's already seen all that old stuff already.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 05, 2014, 09:25:32 PM
The "Ultra Magnetic Positioner" needs to be finely guidenced with constant touch control to sustain the Lenz Propelled "Self Acceleration". The "Neutral Zone" is fluid, and acts capriciously. A model airplane RC servo with a longitudinal arm that simply travels in and out could easily attach to the pivot arm of the ultra positioner. This would allow for "Joy Stick" control, and permit the operator to avoid the risk of shock and the safty of the protective plexiglass housing. Eventually perhaps an automatic positioner might be engineered into a final design by the Lockheed Skunk Works or Sandia Labratories, but in the mean time the "Self Acceleration" needs to be piloted!   
 
I don't think  rotor current would cause a fatality. You would need to raise and lower the positioner magnet by hand to succeed at the powerless run up and charging.  The "Ultra Magnetic Positioner's" probably worth the price for purchase. It's a precision instrument. The pivoting magnet looks like it rotates due to attraction with it's mate as it's adjusted. The "Neutral Zone" moves. The operator has to fish for it when acceleration abates.
 
The rotor's blind to the coil's magnet core when the coil and core are positioned in the "Neutral Zone". The coil core needs to stay hidden from the rotor this way to sustain "Self Acceleration". The magnet core still influences the coil. Only the coil field reaches the rotor. Below "Lenz Delay" threshold speed the coil field alone imparts drag. Above the threshold speed RPM the coil field imparts propulsion.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 05, 2014, 11:13:33 PM
The "Ultra Magnetic Positionr" already has an AC motor and foot pedal. Thinking through it some more, I bet some plastic tape and a popsicle stick lever glued to a rear magnet would probably work as good or even better.
 
Gluing two backing magnets together and a popsicle stick horizontally would probably give you maximum control and insulate you from electric shock. So the procedure would simply involve pulling the DPDT Relay back in the normally closed position for charging, then levering a few magnets away from the stack to fly the self accelerated rotor in the "Neutral Zone" with the popsicle stick controller. A ceramic paper weight can help trim the stick.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 05, 2014, 11:34:57 PM

I'm through spoon feeding you. All you've done is cause trouble. Everyone's already seen all that old stuff already.
LOL, well if you can point to a post that actually had a drawing or picture of the thing that you are asking about then I will happily apologize.  If you can't then you are just being silly.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 05, 2014, 11:40:59 PM
MarkE,
 
Just stay off my back and stop causing trouble.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 06, 2014, 02:51:00 AM
MarkE,
 
Just stay off my back and stop causing trouble.
I must say that you are acting very strangely.  First you ask for an evaluation of some thing then when I ask you to show the thing you want evaluated you act very upset and put-out.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 11, 2014, 11:52:54 PM
I believe this TK circuit may work well as an automatic "Neutral Zone" positioner with a magnet viewer to trigger the optical sensors, coupled with the motorized ultra magnetic positioner pictured above: The "Neutral Zone" is non-magnetic and would reveal itself as a black line through the magnet viewer.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUsA-YuAtBU&list=UUZFlznLV3IyePfbc2TfDetA
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 12, 2014, 02:39:00 AM
Doug Konzen demonstrates rotor acceleration and decreased input by positioning a shorted magnet backed ferrite core coil in adjacency to a monopole rotor in polarity opposition to the core magnets. This magnet backed coil and monopole rotor polarity configuration is identical to kEhYo's GAP setup. Let's say we wire a blade switch to the output side that shorts the GAP power coil after thr DPDT relay is pulled. Inescapable logic dictates that when the coil's re-positioned as Doug shows, the rotor has to speed up from forces in the shorted coil alone, even though input has been completely curtailed! Think about what I'm saying! Videos can easily be faked. The logic I'm using is irefutable! This test is simple enough for anyone to perform. You have my solemn affidavit that free energy is this simply achieved! The only stipulation is that the rotor be as close to frictionless as physically posible. A VCR bearing with well balanced magnets like Skycollection uses will work fine.


The rotor continues to speed up with zero input and the shorted coil needs to be constantly re-positioned to a new sweet spot. This can get scary and requires a bit of courage. Prepare yourself for "Future Shock". The psychological effects of self acceleration are potentially traumatic!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 12, 2014, 07:20:11 PM
Magnetic film viewer: Notice the brightness contrast, especially in the area where the polarity changes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLHl9mnRSbc
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 13, 2014, 01:08:24 AM
Once again this video better then any other demonstrates where the magnet backed ferrite core coil needs to be positioned to neutralize the attraction and the repulsión between the rotor and magnet backed ferrite. Both the rotor and backing magnets are in repulsión. However, the rotor magnets are attracted to the ferrite core just like the steel bar in this video. This "Neutral Zone" between the red lines should be sharply contrasted by the magnet viewing film and trigger the pivot sheer magnet positioner from the optical sensors in TK's video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYvP7VuFmNo

The GAP power cycle consists of two phases; One, the coil is polaized in attraction to the rotor magnets along with the neutralized ferrite. At TDC, the field is de-energized and the rotor gets a push from the backing magnets in opposition. The coil core is over the neutral zone at this point. The coil core needs to loose magnetic strength  to "hide" from the rotor to achieve "Lenz Reversal" output propulsión. As the rotor accelerates, the coil's field strength needs to be continually adjusted to prevent cogging and sustain acceleration. The viewer, optical sensors and the push pull pivot sheer magnet positioner should work together enough to keep the fields balanced automatically.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 13, 2014, 07:44:59 AM
Once again this video better then any other demonstrates where the magnet backed ferrite core coil needs to be positioned to neutralize the attraction and the repulsión between the rotor and magnet backed ferrite. Both the rotor and backing magnets are in repulsión. However, the rotor magnets are attracted to the ferrite core just like the steel bar in this video. This "Neutral Zone" between the red lines should be sharply contrasted by the magnet viewing film and trigger the pivot sheer magnet positioner from the optical sensors in TK's video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYvP7VuFmNo

The GAP power cycle consists of two phases; One, the coil is polaized in attraction to the rotor magnets along with the neutralized ferrite. At TDC, the field is de-energized and the rotor gets a push from the backing magnets in opposition. The coil core is over the neutral zone at this point. The coil core needs to loose magnetic strength  to "hide" from the rotor to achieve "Lenz Reversal" output propulsión. As the rotor accelerates, the coil's field strength needs to be continually adjusted to prevent cogging and sustain acceleration. The viewer, optical sensors and the push pull pivot sheer magnet positioner should work together enough to keep the fields balanced automatically.
The video demonstrates different configurations of two competing forces.

A "Lenz reversal" would require induced voltage to orient such that if current were to flow the current would reinforce the inducing field.  You have offered no evidence that such a thing occurs.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 13, 2014, 08:07:15 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90rMGmskqXQ

 :-X
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 13, 2014, 10:06:53 AM

Out of  curiosity, in your opinion, what does it signify when the induced wave, for lack of a better way of  putting it, "morphs" into a perfectly square wave? 




Regards
I'm not following you. In the video above the induced waveform approaches zero as the proper position vertically is approached. The Orbette is a core effect pulse motor, it does not work by electromagnetic attraction or repulsion from the toroidal coils to the rotor magnets. There are two rows of magnets in the rotor; the top row is all N facing out and the bottom row is all S facing out, in vertical pairs. The core effect consists of the applied current to the toroidal coils driving the core material into saturation, or close to it. This actually _reduces_ the attraction of the magnets, both N and S, to the core material. So the timing of the drive pulse is such that it happens just at the point of closest approach of the rotor magnets to the cores. When the current is _off_ the magnets are strongly attracted to the cores and when the current is _on_ they are less attracted-- so the rotor accelerates on the approach and does _not decelerate_ proportionally on the departure from the closest approach. This results in an overall acceleration of the rotor.  The polarity of the magnets or of the current does not matter to the core effect since the field of the electromagnet is almost completely confined within the toroidal core. The core effect motor does not work on electromagnetic attraction or repulsion between the core and the rotor magnets as a normal solenoidal-wound system would. So even when you have the core positioned vertically at the proper "halfway" point between the rows of magnets on the rotor, reducing the "generator effect" from the magnets passing to close to zero, the "core effect" which actually drives the rotor is not reduced.
This type of pulse motor is very subtle in its effects; the "core effect" has even been interpreted as a "free energy" effect (by Steorn).

But I've never seen an induced pulse "morph" suddenly into a square wave. I'd suspect instrument or hookup error if it did, but I'd love to see a system where it happened.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 13, 2014, 11:06:16 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90rMGmskqXQ

 :-X
That is a great demonstration of how one can:

Add multiple fields together.
Vary physical position of magnetics to vary the torque / BEMF constants of a motor.  When the BEMF is small, so too is the torque constant.  Hence the very long spin-up time under no load of Steorn's silly WaterWays demonstrations.  BEMF is a factor in Steorn's motors and the Orbette's.  But the coupling is so weak that it can be hard to see.  Steorn misrepresented that the only place that the BEMF would be seen would be in the top of the current trace.  It can also be seen and is more pronounced as I recall in the timing of the coil current build-up prior to coil saturation.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 13, 2014, 01:49:20 PM
That is a great demonstration of how one can:

Add multiple fields together.
Vary physical position of magnetics to vary the torque / BEMF constants of a motor.  When the BEMF is small, so too is the torque constant.  Hence the very long spin-up time under no load of Steorn's silly WaterWays demonstrations.  BEMF is a factor in Steorn's motors and the Orbette's.  But the coupling is so weak that it can be hard to see.  Steorn misrepresented that the only place that the BEMF would be seen would be in the top of the current trace.  It can also be seen and is more pronounced as I recall in the timing of the coil current build-up prior to coil saturation.
I think you too may be missing the great difference between a core effect motor and the typical electromagnetic attraction or repulsion of an ordinary pulse or commutated or even a brushless synchronous motor. The generator effect is decoupled from the drive effect. The magnet passage may even contribute to the saturation of the core, lessening the current that needs to be applied to drive the core through the critical region of the B-H hysteresis loop.

There was much in the Steorn story that actually turned out to be true. Even though my Orbette 2.0 used mechanical bearings rather than the magnetic suspension of the Steorn motors, I was able to build in adjustability that they did not, and so I was able to achieve much better acceleration than they could, as well as getting better cancellation of the generator effect. The Orbette in the video outperforms the Steorn motor by a fair margin in terms of acceleration, and from what I could see from their scopeshots, also in electrical power vs. mechanical power. (I know the mechanical power dissipation of my rotor very precisely at any given rpm, thanks to a precise knowledge of the MoI and about a mile of chart-recorder paper and a great USDigital DAC system with a 4000 line rotary encoder monitoring rotor speed.)

I tried a dozen different toroid materials and many winding combinations, and I even went so far as to do quantitative measurements relating the applied current to the attractive force/distance characteristic of a probe magnet, using a digital force gauge and a micrometer-adjustable test fixture. All that data is still on a computer in Canada, probably, but I may be able to find some of the graphs if I look hard enough. The generator effect can be practically eliminated, as I showed for one coil in the video, but the attraction of the rotor magnets to the cores is not affected very much at all by the slight changes in vertical positioning needed. The coils are actually _off_ as the rotor magnets approach the nearest point, and since the coil's position is optimized there is very little induced voltage as the magnets approach. The cores feel the field but the windings don't. Then at the instant of closest approach the current is turned on to the coils. The external field of the magnets as they approach have already driven the core up near the "elbow" of the hysteresis loop and the slight application of current then pushes the core into full or nearly full saturation, at which point the attractive force is reduced, by enough of an amount that the "fleeing" magnets are not retarded nearly as much as they were pulled in during the approach. Normally of course these two forces would be approximately equal, if the cores were not energized, even with them in the optimum position for cancellation of the generator effect. The result is the "slow in, fast out" or rather pulled in hard and pulled back less hard, that drives the motor. It's weird to drive a motor by lessening the attraction on the way out, almost as if you change the core from "iron" to "wood" at the instant of the magnet's closest approach.

Of course the effect is not that radical, it only amounts to a few percentage points of difference in the forces, but this is enough to produce surprisingly strong accelerations, with the right "squareloop" materials for the core, and careful attention to winding and wire routing to  minimize leakage and fringing fields from the toroidal coils.

You may recall that Steorn's toroids in the "plinth" Orbos were mounted face-on to the rotor. I believe this was a mistake on their part; you can see that mine are mounted edge-on, which works better, because with the face-on mounting there is a virtual "hole in the donut" that causes a mechanical loss right at the point of closest approach. With the face on coils there are actually two "valleys" and a "hill" between them at the critical moment and this wastes some of the mechanical power. The edge on configuration that I used makes it easier to null the generator voltage, it eliminates the odd shape of the force-position curve caused by the donut hole, and provides a smoother "more pull in" and "less pull out" force profile from the rotor magnets acting on the core.

Core effect motors are a neglected area of research I think. They are really remarkable. I was also able to get fairly radical gains in performance, using ferrite "beads" that are actually cylinders, by winding them toroidally, mounting them "corner-on" to the rotor, and biasing the far end with little strong magnets to "presaturate" the cheap already low permeability of these beads. Just as synchro is trying to describe above but without really understanding. He seems to think that the magnets work by repelling or attracting the rotor to "help" the pulsed coils do their work. But in a core effect motor they work differently, by moving the saturation level of the cores so that it takes less current to fully saturate them.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 13, 2014, 02:20:29 PM
I think you too may be missing the great difference between a core effect motor and the typical electromagnetic attraction or repulsion of an ordinary pulse or commutated or even a brushless synchronous motor. The generator effect is decoupled from the drive effect. The magnet passage may even contribute to the saturation of the core, lessening the current that needs to be applied to drive the core through the critical region of the B-H hysteresis loop.
I am pretty sure that I understand the operation of these devices and the key role that saturating the core plays.  The saturation decouples by factors of 100's or even 1000's to 1 the motor K before the magnetics saturate.  That's why the voltage across and the current through the coils is so stable:  saturation drives the K to next to nothing.  But before the coils saturate, while current is building up and after the pulse ends and the current decays the inductors return to their linear regions and the BEMF effect of the moving magnets can be seen in the oscilloscope rising and falling current waveforms.
Quote

There was much in the Steorn story that actually turned out to be true. Even though my Orbette 2.0 used mechanical bearings rather than the magnetic suspension of the Steorn motors, I was able to build in adjustability that they did not, and so I was able to achieve much better acceleration than they could, as well as getting better cancellation of the generator effect. The Orbette in the video outperforms the Steorn motor by a fair margin in terms of acceleration, and from what I could see from their scopeshots, also in electrical power vs. mechanical power. (I know the mechanical power dissipation of my rotor very precisely at any given rpm, thanks to a precise knowledge of the MoI and about a mile of chart-recorder paper and a great USDigital DAC system with a 4000 line rotary encoder monitoring rotor speed.)
Your work was always vastly superior to Steorn's.
Quote

I tried a dozen different toroid materials and many winding combinations, and I even went so far as to do quantitative measurements relating the applied current to the attractive force/distance characteristic of a probe magnet, using a digital force gauge and a micrometer-adjustable test fixture. All that data is still on a computer in Canada, probably, but I may be able to find some of the graphs if I look hard enough. The generator effect can be practically eliminated, as I showed for one coil in the video, but the attraction of the rotor magnets to the cores is not affected very much at all by the slight changes in vertical positioning needed. The coils are actually _off_ as the rotor magnets approach the nearest point, and since the coil's position is optimized there is very little induced voltage as the magnets approach. The cores feel the field but the windings don't. Then at the instant of closest approach the current is turned on to the coils. The external field of the magnets as they approach have already driven the core up near the "elbow" of the hysteresis loop and the slight application of current then pushes the core into full or nearly full saturation, at which point the attractive force is reduced, by enough of an amount that the "fleeing" magnets are not retarded nearly as much as they were pulled in during the approach. Normally of course these two forces would be approximately equal, if the cores were not energized, even with them in the optimum position for cancellation of the generator effect. The result is the "slow in, fast out" or rather pulled in hard and pulled back less hard, that drives the motor. It's weird to drive a motor by lessening the attraction on the way out, almost as if you change the core from "iron" to "wood" at the instant of the magnet's closest approach.
It is out of the ordinary but all the ordinary physics still apply.  The coil orientation would in a perfect world yield zero modulation of the top of the waveform.  The energy transfer that is necessary to the operation of the device as a motor is all in those rising and falling edges.  Altering the core bias with the rotor magnets changes those edges.
Quote

Of course the effect is not that radical, it only amounts to a few percentage points of difference in the forces, but this is enough to produce surprisingly strong accelerations, with the right "squareloop" materials for the core, and careful attention to winding and wire routing to  minimize leakage and fringing fields from the toroidal coils.
The squarer, the better for these types of machines.
Quote

You may recall that Steorn's toroids in the "plinth" Orbos were mounted face-on to the rotor. I believe this was a mistake on their part; you can see that mine are mounted edge-on, which works better, because with the face-on mounting there is a virtual "hole in the donut" that causes a mechanical loss right at the point of closest approach. With the face on coils there are actually two "valleys" and a "hill" between them at the critical moment and this wastes some of the mechanical power. The edge on configuration that I used makes it easier to null the generator voltage, it eliminates the odd shape of the force-position curve caused by the donut hole, and provides a smoother "more pull in" and "less pull out" force profile from the rotor magnets acting on the core.
You found that because you possess orders of magnitude better understanding of physics than the saps at Steorn.
Quote

Core effect motors are a neglected area of research I think. They are really remarkable. I was also able to get fairly radical gains in performance, using ferrite "beads" that are actually cylinders, by winding them toroidally, mounting them "corner-on" to the rotor, and biasing the far end with little strong magnets to "presaturate" the cheap already low permeability of these beads. Just as synchro is trying to describe above but without really understanding. He seems to think that the magnets work by repelling or attracting the rotor to "help" the pulsed coils do their work. But in a core effect motor they work differently, by moving the saturation level of the cores so that it takes less current to fully saturate them.
What you've got is a mechanical version of a magnetic amplifier.  The non-linear region headed into saturation provides signal gain needed to make the approaching and departing transactions asymmetric with respect to force versus position.  That in turn allows the external power source to transfer energy that accelerates the rotor.  I think that small diameter hollow cylinders of very square magnetic material would be ideal.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 13, 2014, 09:28:20 PM
Here's a better example of the shorted generator coil positioning effect:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYUTFi8Zdt4
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 13, 2014, 11:50:35 PM
The video demonstrates different configurations of two competing forces.

A "Lenz reversal" would require induced voltage to orient such that if current were to flow the current would reinforce the inducing field.  You have offered no evidence that such a thing occurs.

@MarkE,

The important point in this video is how the balance between attraction and repulsión is effected by distance positioning. Both Konzen and kEhYo orient their monopole rotor magnets facing North pole out; Both their coils have the backing magnets in opposition behind ferrite cores. The video demonstrates that magnet stacks in repulsión share attraction to a steel magnetic keeper when pushed toward each other at a distance just to the inside of a "Neutral Zone" of perhaps 1/16 of an inch in width. kEhYo's GAP power coil is in the "Repulsión Zone". Konzen's shorted coil sweet spot is closer to the rotor where attraction to the ferrite balances the repulsión to his backing magnets. The identical coil, disconnected from the input source, shorted and repositioned closer to the rotor now causes the rotor to speed up solely from forces inside the shorted generator coil alone! This "Neutral Zone" should appear as a bright ridge though a magna-viewer film, contrasted by dark areas on either side. A piezo positioning chip would offer another alternative for automatically locating the shorted coil in the acceleration zone demonstrated by Doug Konzen, who uses a risky hands on approach.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 14, 2014, 12:05:00 AM
Synchro1 the video demonstrates:

Any magnet of any orientation attracts / is attracted to a soft magnetic piece.   
Magnet poles of the same polarity repel.
Magnet force is very nonlinear.
Forces add.

None of these facts contribute to the wrong idea that there is a "delayed Lenz effect".  And none of these facts contribute to the wrong idea that by arranging magnets and / or soft magnetic pieces that there is extra energy to be had.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: tinman on December 14, 2014, 01:35:04 AM
There is always a delay in the lenze force,as a magnetic field dose have a speed limit-although the delay would be that small,it is almost unmeasurable.This also means that there is also the same delay time in the motor/generator effect,so the net result remains at 0.You can however use the lenz force to increase motor torque and generator output.

Motors and generators are simply being designed wrong.
It is extreemly simple to design a motor that increases with torque when a load is applied to the generator coil's,and reducing the P/in to the motor at the same time-->this i have shown many times. ;)
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 14, 2014, 02:34:41 AM
@Tinman,

You contradict youself. Tk maintains the rotor will slow down and stop. You people contnually ignore the fact that Konzen's rotor is speeding up. I've been describing the run away effect for years over countless threads. You people act like I'm a trying to perpetrate a hoax. Why don't you try it?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 14, 2014, 02:48:35 AM
Synchro1 the video demonstrates:

Any magnet of any orientation attracts / is attracted to a soft magnetic piece.   
Magnet poles of the same polarity repel.
Magnet force is very nonlinear.
Forces add.

None of these facts contribute to the wrong idea that there is a "delayed Lenz effect".  And none of these facts contribute to the wrong idea that by arranging magnets and / or soft magnetic pieces that there is extra energy to be had.

What's that supposed to mean that "Lenz Delay Effect" is a wrong idea? Did you watch the Doug Konzen coil shorting video? How do you explain the rotor accleration coupled with the drop in input that Doug demonstrates?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 14, 2014, 03:03:01 AM
What's that supposed to mean that "Lenz Delay Effect" is a wrong idea? Did you watch the Doug Konzen coil shorting video? How do you explain the rotor accleration coupled with the drop in input that Doug demonstrates?
It is a wrong idea because:

1) Lenz's Law states only the direction of induced currents. 
2) The induced currents have not been showed to be delayed.  It is in fact the immediate induction of eddy currents that delays build-up of net magnetic fields and resulting force.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 14, 2014, 03:10:09 AM
@MarkE,

You're just dodging my question. I've been completely befuddled before by your tortured and densely incomprehensible obfuscation. You just like to cause trouble. I intend to simply ignore you from now on.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 14, 2014, 04:43:08 AM
The shorted coil Konzen demonstrates accelerates his magnet rotor from forces in the coil. Think how silly this is! What difference could it possibly make if the rotor was sustained at the same speed by self inertia? People want to pretend that it would make a difference to sustain the rotor motion with an auxilliary power source rather then inertial momentum. I can assure everyone that the force in the shorted generator coil that accelerates Doug's powered rotor is sufficient to accelerate one sustained by flywheel inertia alone; Regardless of what kind of theory you use to explain it.

The only critical criteria for self acceleration is that the magnet rotor be sufficiently frictionless!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 14, 2014, 04:21:19 PM

I sorta figured that you wouldn't follow, and would conclude that such a condition if it indeed existed could immediately be blamed on incompetence.  Its cool, I'd really love to show you the phenomena, but considering how folks get sliced and diced around here, I think I'll stay ignorant a little while longer.  With that being said however, I linked to your video which I think is genius.  I quote the relevant text:

"When the coils are wired together in the running configuration, they are then "phased" exactly like phasing a stereo speaker system---only opposite. When the tiny CEMF signals from each pair of coils are exactly out of phase the total CEMF signature flatlines completely."

My work is directly related to what you disclose here.  I appreciate you sharing this with the world.


Regards

@Erfinder,

I'm running this thread. Go ahead and present your findings. I'll ride herd on that pack of trolls!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 14, 2014, 06:52:54 PM

Hello synchro1,


I really appreciate the offer, however, I will decline.  I have been down this road of sharing what I have been working on.  It never ends like I would like.  I like how you think though, and welcome a conversation via Skype if you are interested.  PM me your Skype name.




Regards

I just opened a Skype account and downloaded the program. I'll PM my Skype name when it's fully activated.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 14, 2014, 07:27:27 PM
Skycollection designed a fine high speed monopole rotor. Coupled with my internal bearings concept, it would surely outperform any other design. Skycollection magnetically attaches two diametrically magnetized bar magnets to an iron axle, then slips a brass collar over them. These bar magnets are polarized side to side and are attached by the same pole to the iron axle. His axle runs into Mendicino levitating bearings on the ends which cause trouble because he's forced to spin the axle along with the rotor. A better approach would involve positioning two tiny precision ceramic radial bearings inside the iron magnet tube bore hole and keeping the axle stationary. This method doubles the rotor speed. Lets say the iron tube has a bore hole of 1/2 inch. The radial bearing would need an OD of nearly 1/2 inch. The ID of the bearing would nearly equal the diameter of the stationary axle. These dimensions need to be tailored to dove tail with a tiny fractional difference to come together and squeeze inside one another exactly. A 3d printer might help but is unnecessary. Four diametric bar magnets all poles facing out alike, magnetically attached to an iron tube with precision internal bearings, covered with a brass sleeve, would deliver the ideal lowest friction monopole rotor capable of very high operating RPM'S, with a very high degree of safety. This kind of four pole low friction high speed monopole rotor would be an ideal choice for the self accelerting generator under development here. The generator dosen't reach it's full potential untill the rotor accelerates to top end, in this case around 50K RPM. Remember, the shorted coil acts the same way wired to a capacitive load, so there's no need for an alternate output coil. All the output is generated by the "Lenz Reverse Propulsión". When the rotor accelerates to top speed the output is awesome! The rotor will not begin to self accelerte if there's any drag at all from a power coil or high friction from a poor bearing setup. Only at very high speed does the generator have any value.

The saturation level of the ferrite portion of the coil core is the strongest variable that forces the repositioning of the hybrid "Synchro" coil. The higher the permeability factor of the ferrite, the lower the positioning tolerance.

http://www.bocabearings.com/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=search-brand 
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 14, 2014, 11:17:39 PM
A set of 3D designed and printed bearings bushings would really help tremedously. The two sides could snap buckle in the center of the iron axle bore hole. Glueing the bearings in place that way presented my biggest headache. A precisión 3D printed snap socket on each end for the precisión bearings would put a fine finishing touch on the rotor. The force in the shorted coil that accelerates Konzen's clumsy rotor is enough to rotate this kind of small radius low friction rotor full circle. There's hardly any torque, but it's timing self advances and the propulsión force increases exponentially with acceleration untill the rotor reaches hyper Sonic velocity.

A square iron nut with a smooth bore hole would work best for the bearing magnet core holder. This kind of rotor's very versatile. It can easily switch to difour pole monopolar diametric or N S N S.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 16, 2014, 06:52:20 PM
Here's an excellent video of shorted coil acceleration coupled with a clear and concise "Lenz Delay" theory:

"My current theory is that the generator coil is too slow to react 'properly', it tries to hinder the approach by setting up a north magnetic field, but the coil is slow and when the field up it's too late, the magnet is already going away, so instead of slowing it down it pushes the magnet away and speeding it up".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeXadyVSxj4

The shorted coil can be viewed as an "Infinite Capacitor".

These are pictures of perhaps the World's first self powered Alternator:.

Top to bottom :

1- View of the 3/4 inch diametically magnetized spinner in the 2 1/2 inch PVC protective coupling.
2- Miniature 1/4 inch O.D. , 1/8 inch I.D. all ceramic bearing on top of a Radio Shack 12 volt 6 amp hour battery.
3- Position of the 12 volt Reed Switch on the "Series Bifilar Air Core Spool Coil". Pins should point away from the magnet..
4- Top secured for runing with coil seated down partly inside the output core.
5- The six main componants: Power coil on the PVC coupling, 1/8 inch brass axel, ceramic bearing, battery and Reed Switch.
6- Circuit schematic.

This setup would work best to achieve self acceleration with the simple addition of a mechanical shorting DPDT blade switch accoss the coil leads!


The trick here would be to short the coil leads with the DPDT blade switch before the reed switch contacts fuse at high RPM. A DPDT blade switch would disconnect the power and simultainiously short the coil for self acceleration

The small radius very low friction rotor is the critical factor in the self powering effect!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 16, 2014, 08:39:13 PM
synchro1,


Like you and many others, I see the significance of this effect, however, the thing that we haven't been paying attention to, ignoring it as it were, is the fact that acceleration is limited!  We cannot ignore the fact that the gain in RPM is limited.  We note the acceleration, and we also note when the acceleration ends, we understand the conditions needed to get this far.  What we haven't comprehended is how to lift the limit!

This concept has been under investigation for some time now and we still haven't figured it out.  While the effect is novel, it is of no practical value as is.  If the system accelerates up to a certain speed and then the acceleration stops, how are we justified in considering this as being useful?  We need to comprehend the mechanism which limits further acceleration.  We want runaway conditions when the load is attached, and not just limited acceleration, right? We want the generator to produce torque which exceeds that which is being provided by the prime mover...right?  We feel that this is the way forward, and maybe it is, but as long as acceleration dies down, we won't get there with this method. 

Think about this....up to a certain point the coil opposes change in current.  After a certain point is reached, the coil opposes changes in potential.  The change over constitutes at least in my mind a migration from operating under the laws governing one energy storage mechanism to the laws which govern the other.

In motors we note the same behavior, immediate acceleration followed by stabilized RPM.  We know who the culprit is that is responsible for limiting further acceleration.  We claim to have removed the negative effects associated with CEMF from the equation when discussing this acceleration under load phenomena, in truth, we have not. 

In my opinion the solution to the speed limitation is found in understanding that the effect itself is tied to the size of the storage reservoir, speed increase and its eventual plateau is an indication of the size of this reservoir.  The solution in my opinion lies in establishing those conditions whereby the reservoir increases in size with increasing RPM. 


Regards

The soloution is blindingly simple! The shorted coil simply needs to be gingerly repositioned. I sustain the acceleration  by pushing the coil in towards the rotor with my fingers. The red wire coil pictured above is merely held in place by pressure from the tight fitting hole. The coil's free to move in and out. You just need to fish for a new sweet spot. It takes pilot skills to reposition it in the narrow range needed to sustain the acceleration, but it stabilizes toward the upward range of the speed limitations. The thing is the rotor is spinning at nearly Hyper Sonic velocity with no input!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 16, 2014, 09:32:12 PM
@Erfinder,

People ask me to do that when I'm trying to recruit replicators. Almost any thing will work. Take Hob Nire's setup in the video I posted a link to above; Hob's shorted coil is fixed in position. All Hob, or anyone would need to do is to place that shorted coil on a moveable track with a screw positioner and he could disconnect the power to the pulse coil and sustain the rotor acceleration by repositioning the shorted coil in towards the rotor a fraction of an inch or so!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: tinman on December 16, 2014, 11:05:19 PM
synchro1,


Like you and many others, I see the significance of this effect, however, the thing that we haven't been paying attention to, ignoring it as it were, is the fact that acceleration is limited!  We cannot ignore the fact that the gain in RPM is limited.  We note the acceleration, and we also note when the acceleration ends, we understand the conditions needed to get this far.  What we haven't comprehended is how to lift the limit!

   

In my opinion the solution to the speed limitation is found in understanding that the effect itself is tied to the size of the storage reservoir, speed increase and its eventual plateau is an indication of the size of this reservoir.  The solution in my opinion lies in establishing those conditions whereby the reservoir increases in size with increasing RPM. 


Regards
You also need to remove the coil altogether,and then do another RPM reading. I think you will find that the RPM will also go up without the coil and core there at all.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 16, 2014, 11:47:11 PM
You also need to remove the coil altogether,and then do another RPM reading. I think you will find that the RPM will also go up without the coil and core there at all.

Right, very good point! Everyone knows how important positioning a power coil precisely is and the large difference a small correction can make. After the power coil's positioned, rotor acceleration depends on the amount of power delivered to the coil. A shorted output coil has no way to vary any power to itself, but pushing it in more closely towards the magnet rotor has the same effect as adding power to a drive coil.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 17, 2014, 01:22:14 AM
Hob Nire has all his coils positioned at the same distance from his magnet rotor. What happens to the rotor speed when he shorts a second output coil? Nothing! The reason is the maximum propulsion strength has already been achieved by the first coil at that distance. Imagine the output coils staggered in distance from the rotor like a Pan Flute. First we short the furthest, we achieve a few hundred RPM'S in acceleration; Then we short the next closest coil. What can we expect from that one? Additional accelration! The point is we have nothing to gain from multiple shorted coils.

All Hob Nire's output coils in faned sequence would only work as well as one shorted coil on an adjustable worm gear.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 18, 2014, 10:05:17 PM
I'm returning after a brief diversion to Gotoluc's "Lenz Delay Thread". Milehigh has falsely tutored a group of contributors including Tinman, MarkE, Farmhand, etc. They all parrot MH's "No Lenz Delay" non-theory based on imaginary instrument error and other kinds of stupid arguements. Luc has clearly demomstrated the validity of the theory with his most recent test. Luc's output coil is not shorted, but wired to a high value resistive load. This proves the effect is dependent on a heavy load or a dead short acting as an infinate load or an infinite capacitor.

Luc's ferrite core extends past the Wall of his output, and passes through the entire bore hole. A magnet wave is produced at the tip of the core by the passing magnet pole that travels through the ferrite with a Barkhausen effect resembling falling dominos as the magnetic domains flip in groups. When this wave reaches the shorted coil, it's reflected back towards the spinning rotor magnet. The reflected wave is either lagging or in advance of TDC causing either drag or propulsión depending on the distance the shorted coil is from the end of the ferrite core. The conditions require that a mínimum threshold RPM be achieved by the rotor, and the the coil impedence match the rotor field strength. A slow rotor or weak coil won't get the "Lenz Reversal Effect".

I discovered that after the initial speed up, that the new RPM changes the core viscosity slightly, and causes the refleted wave to lag enough to stall the acceleration. Gotoluc can't test for this repositioing effect because his Dremel driver is already at top speed. The important point I make is that the acceleration advances in "Barkhausen Leaps" not linearly when the new wave reflection position of the shorted coil is reached!





Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 18, 2014, 10:26:35 PM
There is no such thing as a "Lenz delay".    "Lenz delay" is an invented term used by some to describe current that is out of phase with the inducing current.   Reactive networks and/or transmission delay mechanisms can store and return energy.  On a cycle by cycle basis the amount of returned energy is never quite equal nor greater than the energy imparted.  That means that one can enjoy all kinds of entertainment by "releasing the (induced current) brake" in an electrodynamic machine by introducing reactive elements and or a transmission delay network that reflects at the far end.  One can readily demonstrate by manipulating such networks that loading on the source  can be reduced.  It can never be reduced to zero or set-up for a gain.  As the load goes to zero so to goes the energy that can perform useful work on or through the load.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 19, 2014, 07:48:27 PM
@MarkE,

"Lenz Delay Effect" as proved by Gotoluc involves the reflection of a "Magnet Wave" in a ferrite ore and is a "Core Effect"! I know you guys are too busy uploading comments all the time to do any meaningfull research on your own, and it would be too much trouble to ask you to  study JLN'S video series on the effect.

Quote from MarkE:


"Lenz delay" is an invented term used by some to describe current that is out of phase with the inducing current".
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 19, 2014, 08:38:25 PM
"As the intended frequency increases, a magnetic core’s material has a decrease in permeability, develops phase lag in response to external magnetic field changes and develops higher resistive impedance which causes heat loss".

When the "Lenz Delay Effect" causes rotor acceleration, the core material develops "phase lag" in response to continued external field changes from the accelerated rotor. This retards the reflected magnet wave from the shorted coil behind TDC and stalls the continued acceleration. A repositioning of the shorted coil becomes necessary to re commence the acceleration!

This is important: The DLE acceleration causes "Phase Lag" in the core material. We need to reposition the coil to re-advance it!

Like a vacuum advance timing system on a car distributor. The wave needs to be just a few degrees past TDC. Anything more will have no propulsion effect. Let's say we achieve "LDA" Lenz Delay Acceleration, and cut the power to the prime mover. What happens? The rotor slows down and stops due to the "PhasLag" the acceleration caused the core. What would happen if we cut the power while at the same time moving the shorted coil incrementally forward a hairs width by fine turn screw? This equals one over infinity!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 19, 2014, 11:07:05 PM
@MarkE,

"Lenz Delay Effect" as proved by Gotoluc involves the reflection of a "Magnet Wave" in a ferrite ore and is a "Core Effect"! I know you guys are too busy uploading comments all the time to do any meaningfull research on your own, and it would be too much trouble to ask you to  study JLN'S video series on the effect.

Quote from MarkE:


"Lenz delay" is an invented term used by some to describe current that is out of phase with the inducing current".
Synchro1 inventing a second term to support a first invented term is just digging a deeper hole.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 20, 2014, 01:43:04 AM
Synchro1 inventing a second term to support a first invented term is just digging a deeper hole.

It's time you do some homework.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 20, 2014, 02:28:16 AM
It's time you do some homework.
You may well be convinced of what you say.  Unfortunately for reasons that have been explained repeatedly you are wrong.  If you want to show evidence of a "delayed Lenz" effect then come up with a case where the induced voltage across a conductor switches direction while the orientation of the dB/dt is constant.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 20, 2014, 04:35:55 AM
@MarkE,

"Lenz Delay Effect" requires a "Core"! It's a phase lag in the "Core Material". Why can't you understand that? Have you reviewed the JLN videos I asked you to look at yet? Stop pretending you know more about the subject matter then JLN1
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 20, 2014, 10:12:48 AM
@MarkE,

"Lenz Delay Effect" requires a "Core"! It's a phase lag in the "Core Material". Why can't you understand that? Have you reviewed the JLN videos I asked you to look at yet? Stop pretending you know more about the subject matter then JLN1
I have watched a number of videos and none of them support the conclusions that you promote.  The latest is no exception for the reasons I stated.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 20, 2014, 05:06:05 PM
@MarkE,

DLE or "Delayed Lenz Effect", is caused by MAGNETIZEM. The effect has nothing to do with electricity. All I can say MarkE is that you really suprise me.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 20, 2014, 05:22:41 PM
@MarkE,

DLE or "Delayed Lenz Effect", is caused by MAGNETIZEM. The effect has nothing to do with electricity. All I can say MarkE is that you epitomize STUPIDITY! I can't tell you how really fucking stupid you really are.
Synchro1, induction has everything to do with electromagnetism. 
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 20, 2014, 06:31:13 PM
Synchro1, induction has everything to do with electromagnetism.

Magnetizem is a seperate and distinct force from electricity. You're trying to sound smart when you're really not.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 21, 2014, 08:49:12 PM
"As the intended frequency increases, a magnetic core’s material has a decrease in permeability, develops phase lag in response to external magnetic field changes and develops higher resistive impedance which causes heat loss".

When the "Lenz Delay Effect" causes rotor acceleration, the core material develops "phase lag" in response to continued external field changes from the accelerated rotor. This retards the reflected magnet wave from the shorted coil behind TDC and stalls the continued acceleration. A repositioning of the shorted coil becomes necessary to re commence the acceleration!

This is important: The DLE acceleration causes "Phase Lag" in the core material. We need to reposition the coil to re-advance it!

Like a vacuum advance timing system on a car distributor. The wave needs to be just a few degrees past TDC. Anything more will have no propulsion effect. Let's say we achieve "LDA" Lenz Delay Acceleration, and cut the power to the prime mover. What happens? The rotor slows down and stops due to the "PhasLag" the acceleration caused the core. What would happen if we cut the power while at the same time moving the shorted coil incrementally forward a hairs width by fine turn screw? This equals one over infinity!

Gotoluc has a video test bed on the "Delayed Lenz or not" thread, consisting of a diametric neo tube magnet on a Dremel. The output coil has a ferrite core extending outward from the coil wall toward the rotor and extending back through the bore hole. This setup could be modified to test for self acceleration with the following upgrades: Firstly, the Dremel runs at top speed of 35K for Critical Mínimum "Lenz Delay" R.P.M. The neo tube magnet would have to be placed on it's own bearing and driven by a cushion attached to the Dremal that would de-clutch when withdrawn apart for free spinning. Secondly, the output coil would need a fine positioning screw.

A second coil identical to the first with an adjustment screw would need to be placed opposite the advancing coil to create "Lenz Drag" to stabilize rotor R.P.M. and prevent runaway. This coil would need a load too. Both coils would need to be re-positioned simultainiously to sustain and stabilize the R.P.M. All the advancing coil can do is accelerate the rotor. The rotor would need a "Lag Drag" coil in opposition to stabilize the rotor speed. Review the quote comment above to more fully understand the principles.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 21, 2014, 11:35:21 PM
Two automatic push pull Op Amp levitator circuits with "Hall Effect" Gauss sensors on each core, perhaps controled by an Arduino program connected to motorised positioners or electro magnetic coils would put the finishing touch on this self propelled alternator. We have advanced builders contributing on this forum who could master this kind of project with their skills.

The other alternative would involve a solid state transformer version working on the same basic principles. A good topic for a new thread!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 22, 2014, 11:06:54 PM
Magnetizem is a seperate and distinct force from electricity. You're trying to sound smart when you're really not.
Induced voltage is an electromagnetic phenomenon.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 22, 2014, 11:48:52 PM
Induced voltage is an electromagnetic phenomenon.

Water is not high pressure steam. Magnetizem and electricity are seperate forces like liquid and gas are seperate states of matter. Magnetisem has no effect on current in a wire. Magnetiizem needs a magnetic inductor to travel through like solid iron or steel just like electricity needs an electrical inductor. Copper's a good conductor of electricity but a poor conductor of magnetisem. The word electromagnetizem is practically meaningless on it's own without a reference to Ampere turns. Ampere turns of wire generate a magnetic field that is indistinguishable from a permanent magnet field. Permanent magnet fields are not  dependent on electricity. This is proof that magnetisem is not electricity as you falsely imply. Both you and Milehigh work very hard to confuse people about the distinct and totally seperate nature of these two individual forces. I threatened to ignore your comments because you persist in acting stupidly about this basic fact.

DLE only relates to the passage of magnetizem through a magnetic inductor and has nothing to do with the passage of electricity through an electrical conductor. stop confusing these differences or I will stop responding to your comments. Both you and Milehigh act like delinquent children and I'm sick of it.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: dieter on December 23, 2014, 02:30:30 AM
Take it easy. It is not worth to get upset.


I think, after watching a lecture by a professor of an established university, explaining ferromagnetism, that science is only PRETENDING to know what is happening, just like they do with gravity. These things can be measured but they are not really understood.
 I think, first of all we have to make a diffrence between static and dynamic magnetism. Can there be magnetism without electricity? Sure. Can there be electricity without magnetism? No. Which is confusing.


Second, magnetism by PMs and EMs is not the same. In PMs the vectors are fixed and may be forced to unnatural paths. In EMs the vectors are aligned at Runtime and they dynamicly choose the path of least resistance. Of course, I am talking about the Coil or Magnet, not the Air/Iron etc. medium.


So we may say, static magnetism is independent of electricity, but electricity is always causing dynamic magnetism. In that sense there is indeed a connection. A semidirectional link, if you want, which is interesting by its own.


Peace

Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: dieter on December 23, 2014, 05:06:26 AM
A PM stresses the electrons in the coil immediately, or with the speed of light. But it takes some time for the coil to equilibriate internally. The distribution of stress depends highly on the geometry of coil and core. The PM may have passed by before it is affected by the fully equilibriated B field of the coil. For that it may have to stay away from the core, which is where the stress is initially concentrated. Well... I guess so  :) . However, one may consider this a delayed Lenz effect. Because the distribution of the PMs B-Field is not linear or homogenous. But the coils current flow wants to be so, but needs some time, as I said, to equilibriate the stress.


Peace

Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 23, 2014, 04:39:08 PM
On the practical side, I wanted to ask Gotoluc to attach a diametric magnet to the back of the ferrite output coil core to measure the effect it had on the output. The thread is currently locked.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 23, 2014, 11:22:42 PM
@Quote fom JLN:


"In the case of the generators, the increase of the turn rate is produced by the DLE when the devices are loaded above a critical minimum frequency. Below the critical minimum frequency the DLE coil will produce deceleration as per any conventional Lenz generator coil. Coil frequency dictates coil impedance which is a critical factor in producing generator DLE and on-load system acceleration".

Doug Konzen's 8 magnet rotor is traveling at 1405 RPM. 8 X 1405 = 11240 Hertz. He gets acceleration at that rate with a shorted magnet backed ferrite core generator coil:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaaEdGPO7C8

Gotoluc's most recent DLE experriment used a diametric rotor and a Dremel prime mover traveling at 35,000 R.P.M. 2 X 35,000 = 70,000 Hertz.

Kozen's CMF in Hertz, is at least 6 times lower then Gotoluc's. How much lower would the addition of magnets to Luc's ferrite core make his CMF drop?

How does increasing the magnetic viscosity in the ferrite core effect the magnetic phase lag of the "Lenz Effect" and lower the "critical mínimum frequency"?
 
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: dieter on December 24, 2014, 12:20:58 AM
It's hard to say what's going on there in Konzens' motor. It could be the basic setup with those PM stacks is causing a drag due to friction and or costy mass de- and accelleration and then the shortened coil just reduces or neutralizes that drag somehow.


It could also be that the shortened coil shows exactly that, DLE. As I described earlier, a coil needs a certain time to get its internal equilibrium (charge seperation evenly distributed) and that may be the frequency mentioned by JLN. The duration of the BEMF spike may be an indicator for the req. frequency.


Peace
 
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 24, 2014, 04:58:21 AM
This scope shot reveals a "magnet wave". Notice how the peaks match TDC of both rotor poles. This is at 30mm down a soft iron core. How would magnets placed at the end of the core away from the rotor effect the distance of the "TDC Wave Peak Conjunction" from the rotor?

There's a time delay for the magnetizem from the rotor to reach the coil. How much time would it take or the "Lenz Field" from the coil to reflect back to the rotor? Would a difference in field strength effect the time delay? Does magnetizem have a constant velocity like light and electricity? The answer is yes!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: dieter on December 24, 2014, 06:31:44 AM
Officially it's the speed of light, but wouldn't that be weird if the speed is constant, regardless of the medium? All the domains that need to be kicked in iron, compared to rather empty space... Doesn't the speed of sound also vary, depending on the medium?
Peace

Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 24, 2014, 08:09:18 AM
Water is not high pressure steam. Magnetizem and electricity are seperate forces like liquid and gas are seperate states of matter. Magnetisem has no effect on current in a wire. Magnetiizem needs a magnetic inductor to travel through like solid iron or steel just like electricity needs an electrical inductor. Copper's a good conductor of electricity but a poor conductor of magnetisem. The word electromagnetizem is practically meaningless on it's own without a reference to Ampere turns. Ampere turns of wire generate a magnetic field that is indistinguishable from a permanent magnet field. Permanent magnet fields are not  dependent on electricity. This is proof that magnetisem is not electricity as you falsely imply. Both you and Milehigh work very hard to confuse people about the distinct and totally seperate nature of these two individual forces. I threatened to ignore your comments because you persist in acting stupidly about this basic fact.

DLE only relates to the passage of magnetizem through a magnetic inductor and has nothing to do with the passage of electricity through an electrical conductor. stop confusing these differences or I will stop responding to your comments. Both you and Milehigh act like delinquent children and I'm sick of it.
Synchro1 you are asserting statements that are "worse than wrong".   

Steam at any pressure is still water.  True steam is water in the vapor state.

Magnetizem (sic) and electricity are not forces.  They are manifestations of: electric charge, distance, and time.

"Magnetisem (sic) has no effect on current in a wire." could not be more wrong.  Current anywhere has an associated magnetic field. Even at DC current and a static magnetic field causes the Hall Effect.

Highly permeable materials such as you mentioned are very convenient for concentrating magnetic flux.  At medium and high frequencies magnetic flux concentrates between electrical conductors even if the materials have a relative permeability of 1.0 or very close to 1.0 such as air does.  There are objects all around your house that rely on that fact.  There are any number of people who have ignored that fact and come to absolutely wrong conclusions concerning things they measure with electronic instruments.  Steven Jones false claims of 8X overunity from a Joule Thief circuit is a notable example.

Again, electricity and magnetism are both manifestations of: electric charge, distance, and time.  As TK would say: "They are one thing."

Your statement:  "DLE only relates to the passage of magnetizem through a magnetic inductor and has nothing to do with the passage of electricity through an electrical conductor." is utter and total nonsense.  Anywhere charge moves no matter how the path is arranged, there is inductance.  There are no exceptions.  Some arrangements can yield relatively low apparent inductance, such as Aryton Perry wound resistors.  As long as there is distance and time, any current experiences inductive effects. 

I suggest that you avail yourself to any of the many high quality tutorials that are available online.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 24, 2014, 08:12:59 AM
Officially it's the speed of light, but wouldn't that be weird if the speed is constant, regardless of the medium? All the domains that need to be kicked in iron, compared to rather empty space... Doesn't the speed of sound also vary, depending on the medium?
Peace
But we know that the speed with which electromagnetic waves propagate varies with the medium.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 24, 2014, 05:25:20 PM
@MarkE,

I never said anything that stupid about the same speed of magnetizem through different materials. Magnetizem and electricityy are not viewed as the same thing for the purpose of this thread. You're acting wickedly on both these falsehoods. You make yourself sound real Smart when you're just full of shit. Tinselkoala's full of shit too!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 24, 2014, 05:35:04 PM
@MarkE,

I never said anything that stupid about the same speed of magnetizem through different materials. Magnetizem and electricityy are not the same thing. You're acting wickedly on both these falsehoods. You make yourself sound real Smart when you're just full of shit. Tinselkoala's full of shit too!
Synchro1 you are really making quite the fool of yourself.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 24, 2014, 05:46:08 PM
Synchro1 you are really making quite the fool of yourself.

Look, you assholes want act to act like Albert Einstien. I don't need a "Special Theory of Relativity" to explain "Phase Lag" in a magnet core. All that garbage on Electromagnetizem is worthless for the simple understanding needed to get this effect on a test bench. You over complexify to derail any practical progress.....
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 24, 2014, 06:34:16 PM
There's a build under way here on this thread. We're looking at a monople VCR bearing rotor with 6 or 8 N pole facing out magnets. This should be enough to reach the "Critical Mínimum Frequency" of 11K Konzen achieves at 1400 R.P.M.

Two magnet backed coils with high perm ferrite cores and coils of thin wire and many turns, mounted on adjustable screws would be sufficient for all the tests. The self acceleration by "Shorted Coil" can be controlled by "Lenz Drag" from the second. This version would look identical to kEhYo's and be powered as a GAP.

It's enough to understand how the backing magnets increase "Magnetic Viscosity" in the ferrite core, and cause "Phase Lag" to create DLE at low CMF. We don't need an upper level course on James Clerk Maxwell to build and experiment with this kind of generator. Let's take one more look at it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxrJoGZy1to

All it needs is the tracks and adjustor screws, and a few simple modifications in the circuitry.

One last thing; Take a look at kEhYo's "Coil Shorting Video":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UlwdLXO3AI
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 25, 2014, 01:18:25 AM
Look, you assholes want act to act like Albert Einstien. I don't need a "Special Theory of Relativity" to explain "Phase Lag" in a magnet core. All that garbage on Electromagnetizem is worthless for the simple understanding needed to get this effect on a test bench. You over complexify to derail any practical progress.....
Synchro1 hurling expletives doesn't help your case.  You really ought to study the diagram that I've posted a couple of times now.  Even if you are unwilling to do that, you ought to figure out what you would have to do to really tell whether or not you are getting the free energy that you hope for in your experiments.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: NoBull on December 25, 2014, 02:06:43 AM
The self acceleration by "Shorted Coil" can be controlled by "Lenz Drag" from the second. This version would look identical to kEhYo's and be powered as a GAP.

It's enough to understand how the backing magnets increase "Magnetic Viscosity" in the ferrite core, and cause "Phase Lag" to create DLE at low CMF.
Yes, ferromagnetic and ferrimagnetic cores do not respond instantaneously to varying magnetic flux.  This is one of the reasons why their upper frequency limit is around 1GHz. 
Yes, there is a delay in the response of these cores and a phase lag like in JLN's VRM experiment but that does not mean that the Lenz's law is delayed by that.

Also, Lenz's law is not the cause of any mechanical drag - the electrical resistance is.
In an ideal coil without resistance there is no mechanical drag to an approaching and departing magnet, despite that current is still induced in such coil in full accordance with the Lenz's law. 
In SC coils the integral of abs(force) over distance is exactly the same during the approach as during the departure of the moving magnet (to and from infinity), so there is no net gain nor loss (drag) of mechanical energy over the full cycle. 

In non-ideal systems the resistance of the coil and load causes the drag (unequal work during the approach vs. the departure).
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 25, 2014, 03:50:32 AM
Synchro1 hurling expletives doesn't help your case.  You really ought to study the diagram that I've posted a couple of times now.  Even if you are unwilling to do that, you ought to figure out what you would have to do to really tell whether or not you are getting the free energy that you hope for in your experiments.

@MarkE,

"Accelerate an electric field, and you produce an orthogonal magnetic field. And vice versa. But the forces themselves are separate. You can easily produce a static electric field without magnetism (and vice versa)".

You're looking at two sides of a coin! Stop acting like some kind of know it all with your shallow takes on everything.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 25, 2014, 04:44:34 AM
Yes, ferromagnetic and ferrimagnetic cores do not respond instantaneously to varying magnetic flux.  This is one of the reasons why their upper frequency limit is around 1GHz. 
Yes, there is a delay in the response of these cores and a phase lag like in JLN's VRM experiment but that does not mean that the Lenz's law is delayed by that.

Also, Lenz's law is not the cause of any mechanical drag - the electrical resistance is.
In an ideal coil without resistance there is no mechanical drag to an approaching and departing magnet, despite that current is still induced in such coil in full accordance with the Lenz's law. 
In SC coils the integral of abs(force) over distance is exactly the same during the approach as during the departure of the moving magnet (to and from infinity), so there is no net gain nor loss (drag) of mechanical energy over the full cycle. 

In non-ideal systems the resistance of the coil and load causes the drag (unequal work during the approach vs. the departure).

Who ever said "Lenz's Law" is being delayed?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 25, 2014, 04:53:15 AM
Who ever said "Lenz's Law" is being delayed?

But the topic is: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and LENZ DELAY.....right?

What is the difference of what Lenz's law stipulates and Lenz delay?  If you are not delaying what Lenz is referring to then what is being delayed then?

Bill
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 25, 2014, 05:06:28 AM
But the topic is: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and LENZ DELAY.....right?

What is the difference of what Lenz's law stipulates and Lenz delay?  If you are not delaying what Lenz is referring to then what is being delayed then?

Bill

@Bill,

Here's the important fact: kEhYo gets DLE in his coil shorting video at a frequency of 7200. that's six magnets and a rotor speed of 1200 R.P.M. Gotoluc's CMF is 70k at 35k R.P.M. wth no backing magnets on his ferrite output coil core. That's nearly thirty times the rotor speed to benifit from the effect. The vast reduction in threshold speed is caused by the backing magnets. This only effects the viscosity in the gap between the rotor and the coil and has nothing to do with "Lenz", "Faraday", "Maxwell",  "Lorentz", or "Albert Einstien".

The "Delay" is caused merely by this viscosity barrier and the time it takes for the reflected coil field to reach the rotor magnet. There's only one cause for DLE, not multiple causes!




Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 25, 2014, 05:36:21 AM
@Bill,

Here's the important fact: kEhYo gets DLE in his coil shorting video at a frequency of 7200. that's six magnets and a rotor speed of 1200 R.P.M. Gotoluc's CMF is 70k at 35k R.P.M. wth no backing magnets on his ferrite output coil core. That's nearly thirty times the rotor speed to benifit from the effect. The vast reduction in threshold speed is caused by the backing magnets. This only effects the viscosity in the gap between the rotor and the coil and has nothing to do with "Lenz", "Faraday", "Maxwell",  "Lorentz", or "Albert Einstien".

The "Delay" is caused merely by this viscosity barrier and the time it takes for the reflected coil field to reach the rotor magnet. There's only one cause for DLE, not multiple causes!

OK, thank you for your explanation.  I am not sure if it is correct or not as now you are over my head.  I do appreciate your answering my questions though.

Thanks,

Bill
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on December 25, 2014, 06:52:42 AM
Hi folks, Hi synchro, don't remember where i got this file from, could have been here, though it is worth reposting.
The document seems to describe, what you are saying.
I will be trying to emulate this behavior in my magnet eddy current heater as well.
It uses a belt and pulley setup, so i can crank up the rpm's and try different aluminum pieces and distances to try and get ahead of the coils reflection or in my case, the aluminums locally induced field.
peace love light
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 25, 2014, 08:09:05 AM
But the topic is: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and LENZ DELAY.....right?

What is the difference of what Lenz's law stipulates and Lenz delay?  If you are not delaying what Lenz is referring to then what is being delayed then?

Bill
Bill, what Synchro1 describes is in no way a delay in effects described by Lenz' Law. Synchro1 describes observations where induced EMF from Faraday induction or torque from Lorentz forces is out of phase with an inducing magnetic field.  The reasons for those observations and their net meaning have been described.  Synchro1 rejects those descriptions but has failed to refute them.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: NoBull on December 25, 2014, 01:38:05 PM
Who ever said "Lenz's Law" is being delayed?
The topic of this thread.
You can achieve a delay in the response of a ferromagnetic core to the time-varying flux but no delay in the response of a coil to the same.

The "Delay" is caused merely by this viscosity barrier ...
If you'd call it a "Core Delay" you'd be technically correct, but "Lenz's law Delay" or "Lenz Delay" or "Delayed Lenz Effect (DLE)" are misnomers.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 25, 2014, 05:32:48 PM
The topic of this thread.
You can achieve a delay in the response of a ferromagnetic core to the time-varying flux but no delay in the response of a coil to the same.
If you'd call it a "Core Delay" you'd be technically correct, but "Lenz's law Delay" or "Lenz Delay" or "Delayed Lenz Effect (DLE)" are misnomers.

@NoBull,

I'm in complete agreement with you!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 25, 2014, 05:50:10 PM
Bill, what Synchro1 describes is in no way a delay in effects described by Lenz' Law. Synchro1 describes observations where induced EMF from Faraday induction or torque from Lorentz forces is out of phase with an inducing magnetic field.  The reasons for those observations and their net meaning have been described.  Synchro1 rejects those descriptions but has failed to refute them.

@MarkE,

The issue I presented here involves the drop in "Critical Mínimum Frequency" or CMF  for "Delayed Lenz Effect" or DLE from attaching magnets to the ferrite cores of shorted output coils. You pretend you explained this effect somewhere. Can you describe simply and in plain english what the hell you're talking about?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 25, 2014, 05:57:56 PM
Hi folks, Hi synchro, don't remember where i got this file from, could have been here, though it is worth reposting.
The document seems to describe, what you are saying.
I will be trying to emulate this behavior in my magnet eddy current heater as well.
It uses a belt and pulley setup, so i can crank up the rpm's and try different aluminum pieces and distances to try and get ahead of the coils reflection or in my case, the aluminums locally induced field.
peace love light

Very interestiing! Good luck on your experiment.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 25, 2014, 06:08:10 PM
OK, thank you for your explanation.  I am not sure if it is correct or not as now you are over my head.  I do appreciate your answering my questions though.

Thanks,

Bill

@Bill,

JLN demonstrated how DLE is caused by a phase lag in the core material. There are no additional causes. I dreamed up a few doozys myself. People fall in love with their own ideas. I continue to systematically apply JLN'S proof to all cases. This solves all the problems.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 25, 2014, 06:24:48 PM
@MarkE,

The issue I presented here involves the drop in "Critical Mínimum Frequency" or CMF  for "Delayed Lenz Effect" or DLE from attaching magnets to the ferrite cores of shorted output coils. You pretend you explained this effect somewhere. Can you describe simply and in plain english what the hell you're talking about?
Synchro1, I have explained the physics several times already:   Lorentz force from an electromagnet can be delayed by either or both:  eddy currents that oppose the field formed by a time varying current, and magnetization of a pole piece due to magnetic viscosity in the pole piece material.  Similarly, observable BEMF can be delayed by each of those effects alone or in combination. 

As you now acknowledge that "Delayed Lenz Effect" is a misnomer, kindly stop using that incorrect and misleading term. 
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 25, 2014, 08:29:57 PM
Synchro1, I have explained the physics several times already:   Lorentz force from an electromagnet can be delayed by either or both:  eddy currents that oppose the field formed by a time varying current, and magnetization of a pole piece due to magnetic viscosity in the pole piece material.  Similarly, observable BEMF can be delayed by each of those effects alone or in combination. 

As you now acknowledge that "Delayed Lenz Effect" is a misnomer, kindly stop using that incorrect and misleading term.

@MarkE,

What you wrote above is completely incomprehensible. You may think you're making sense, but I can assure you, MarkE, that your communication skills are extremely poor. You need a basic course in English composition. There's a chance you may understand what you are trying to say, but there's a huge failure on your part to put your thoughts into understandable language.       
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 26, 2014, 01:23:32 AM
@MarkE,

A rotor magnet passes a ferrite core and the magnetic field from the passng magnet transits from point A to point B through the core. What happens to the timee interval if we increase the magnetizem in the core? Why would anyone want to bypass all the conventional theories and jump to the Lorentz force to help solve this simple problem?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: tinman on December 26, 2014, 01:44:27 AM
Synchro1, I have explained the physics several times already:   Lorentz force from an electromagnet can be delayed by either or both:  eddy currents that oppose the field formed by a time varying current, and magnetization of a pole piece due to magnetic viscosity in the pole piece material.  Similarly, observable BEMF can be delayed by each of those effects alone or in combination. 

As you now acknowledge that "Delayed Lenz Effect" is a misnomer, kindly stop using that incorrect and misleading term.
So you are saying that the lenz force that act's against the rotor magnet can indeed be delayed.
It is my understanding that that is what is being ment by! delayed lenz effect!-the apposing magnetic field acting against that of the magnetic field on the rotor is delayed until such time that it pushes the PM away from the coil in an asisting direction.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 26, 2014, 01:59:47 AM
Lets look at a simple Mag Amp:


"To begin, I would like to first show a simple experiment that demonstrates how saturating a magnetic core can lower inductance and allow more AC current to flow through a lamp. The lamp glows brighter when the magnets are near the transformer. The magnetic field saturates the core, lowering the inductive reactance in series with the lamp".


Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 02:23:46 AM
@MarkE,

What you wrote above is completely incomprehensible. You may think you're making sense, but I can assure you, MarkE, that your communication skills are extremely poor. You need a basic course in English composition. There's a chance you may understand what you are trying to say, but there's a huge failure on your part to put your thoughts into understandable language.     
Let's take the Lorentz force situation first:

Just take two parallel copper wires each suspended between two posts.   Drive a current through each wire.  If the currents go the same direction, the Lorentz force between the wires pushes them apart.  If the currents oppose then the Lorentz force pulls the wires towards one another.  The delay between change in current in one wire and mechanical force applied to the other wire is s/(c*(uR*eR)0.5)  Where: is is the distance between the two wires, c is the speed of light in a vacuum, uR, and eR are the relative permeability, and relative permittivity of the material between the wires.  As that material is air, uR and eR are for practical purposes both 1.0, and the delay reduces to: s/c.  If the wires are 10cm apart, the delay is about 333ps.  It would take very specialized instruments to detect the delay. For practical purposes in problems of designing electrodynamic machines like motors, or generators, we can safely treat the delay as zero.

Now change each wire to an air core solenoid.  Two effects result:  For any given DC current the number of Amperes per meter increases by the number of turns per meter.  This also increases the inductance of each lead so that the amount of time that it takes any given voltage to change the current in each lead has now gone way up.  However, all our materials still have uR and eR effectively equal to 1.0 so the electromagnetic field between each conductor assembly still propagates at the speed of light.  Any current change in one winding will be sensed as a mechanical force change on the other winding in a few hundred picoseconds.  IE for any practical motor or generator it is an ignorable delay.

Next insert a material with a uR of 1000 but highly resistive material into the solenoid cores.  Now the magnetic fields are far more concentrated by the permeability of the core material, resulting in much greater Lorentz forces and much greater inductance in the windings. The higher core permeability also slows the propagation of the E/M field through the radius of each of our solenoids.  Our sub nanosecond propagation delay over  is now in the ~10 nanosecond range.  That's still such a short delay that we would ignore it in any practical motor or generator.

Next substitute a core material with the same permeability but with a low resistance.  The magnetic field change in either core that results from any change in current in the winding induces eddy currents in the core.  Those eddy currents establish an image field that opposes the change in magnetic flux.  The external E/M field is suppressed.  The faster the changes in current, the more suppressed that field is due to the induced eddy currents.  If we step the current and hold it, externally the field builds-up as the eddy currents die down.  If the resistance of the core material is very low, like in ingot iron it can take milliseconds for the eddy currents to die down after a current step.  If the cores were superconductors, the eddy currents would never die down and the external field would never respond to the change in winding current.

This is the sort of thing that you have been talking about.  Note that what is happening is energy is put into the system, and the action of the eddy currents is to oppose that energy doing external work.  The eddy currents convert useful energy into heat.  They create loss.  They are a direct result of:  Faraday induction.  Their orientation is determined by Lenz' Law.  The induced eddy currents are not delayed.  The image field that they develop opposes the change in field that induced them and the external result is that the net field changes much more slowly than the applied current.

When you have digested the above we can move on.

Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 26, 2014, 02:25:27 AM
@MarkE,

Here's what it souds like when translated from Mandrian Chinese:

•When the retentivity of a ferromagnetic substance interferes with its re-magnetization in the opposite direction, a condition known as hysteresis occurs

Also, please answer Tinman's question!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 02:51:52 AM
So you are saying that the lenz force that act's against the rotor magnet can indeed be delayed.
It is my understanding that that is what is being ment by! delayed lenz effect!-the apposing magnetic field acting against that of the magnetic field on the rotor is delayed until such time that it pushes the PM away from the coil in an asisting direction.
There is no such thing as a "Lenz force".  There is Faraday induction, and there is Lorentz force.  Lenz' Law dictates the orientation of induced emf due to Faraday induction.  There is nothing that delays the orientation of induced EMF dictated by Lenz' Law.  There are mechanisms that delay external formation of a field such as eddy currents and magnetic viscosity.  Each of those examples are energy loss mechanisms.  If one wants to make a brake or a heater, they can be quite useful.  If one is trying to increase the efficiency of a motor or a generator they are to be carefully minimized.  If one is looking to obtain mechanical or electrical energy back from either of those mechanisms, that is never going to happen.  As the adage goes:  "Losses cannot be made up in volume." 

The Tinsel Koala experiment procedure is very instructive:  Take any mechanism where it is suspected or believed that the mechanism adds net energy, and conduct a null experiment with the alleged energy adding device replaced by a mechanically equivalent null device.  Test to see if the measure of energy is better with the proposed mechanism or its null equivalent.  These experiments quickly expose fallacies in the assumptions behind experiments that do not include a proper null.    In the case of alleged "delayed Lenz effect" devices: Each and every one fails to show energy advantage over its null equivalent. 



Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 02:53:51 AM
@MarkE,

A rotor magnet passes a ferrite core and the magnetic field from the passng magnet transits from point A to point B through the core. What happens to the timee interval if we increase the magnetizem in the core? Why would anyone want to bypass all the conventional theories and jump to the Lorentz force to help solve this simple problem?
This is gibberish.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 03:00:14 AM
Lets look at a simple Mag Amp:


"To begin, I would like to first show a simple experiment that demonstrates how saturating a magnetic core can lower inductance and allow more AC current to flow through a lamp. The lamp glows brighter when the magnets are near the transformer. The magnetic field saturates the core, lowering the inductive reactance in series with the lamp".
OK so you've got a mag amp.  Those have been used for over a century.  Before the invention of thyratron tubes they were the method of choice for switching large AC power sources.  Under the right circumstances they only dissipate a small percentage of the controlled power.  The Steorn Orbo "core effect" motor is at its heart a mag amp operated device that only consumes net energy from its battery power source each cycle.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 26, 2014, 03:16:48 AM
This is gibberish.

 Hysteresis (from the Greek to lag behind). When retentivity of a ferromagnetic substance interferes with its re-magnetization in the opposite direction it (Lags behind).
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 03:24:17 AM
Hysteresis (from the Greek to lag behind). When retentivity of a ferromagnetic substance interferes with its re-magnetization in the opposite direction it (Lags behind).


Your post: 

Quote
Quote
Quote from: synchro1 on Today at 01:23:32 AM

    @MarkE,

    A rotor magnet passes a ferrite core and the magnetic field from the passng magnet transits from point A to point B through the core. What happens to the timee interval if we increase the magnetizem in the core? Why would anyone want to bypass all the conventional theories and jump to the Lorentz force to help solve this simple problem?

Is still gibberish.  Adding random references to hysteresis does not make it less so.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 26, 2014, 06:10:41 AM
OK so you've got a mag amp.  Those have been used for over a century.  Before the invention of thyratron tubes they were the method of choice for switching large AC power sources.  Under the right circumstances they only dissipate a small percentage of the controlled power.  The Steorn Orbo "core effect" motor is at its heart a mag amp operated device that only consumes net energy from its battery power source each cycle.

Now we have the basis for a formula: High core saturation yields increaseed electrical conductivity along with magnetic phase lag. Low core saturation delivers higher resistance to electricity and increased  permeability for magnetic flux change. This simple relationship is all we need know to understand the way magnets effect a ferrite core without resorting to an overly complex theory like "Lorentz force". No big deal MarkE!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 01:34:59 PM
Now we have the basis for a formula: High core saturation yields increaseed electrical conductivity
It does no such thing.
Quote
along with magnetic phase lag.
It is just the opposite:  Saturated core = low inductance, introduces low phase lag in a series RL, or LC circuit.  Unsaturated core = much higher inductance and much greater series phase lag in the same series RL or LC circuit.
Quote
Low core saturation delivers higher resistance to electricity and increased  permeability for magnetic flux change.
The permeability is higher as is the inductance.  The resistance is unaffected.
Quote
This simple relationship is all we need know to understand the way magnets effect a ferrite core without resorting to an overly complex theory like "Lorentz force". No big deal MarkE!
Yes synchro1 it is no big deal, and relatively easy to learn.  Please learn it correctly.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 26, 2014, 02:30:36 PM
Let's take the Lorentz force situation first:

Just take two parallel copper wires each suspended between two posts.   Drive a current through each wire.  If the currents go the same direction, the Lorentz force between the wires pushes them apart.  If the currents oppose then the Lorentz force pulls the wires towards one another.  The delay between change in current in one wire and mechanical force applied to the other wire is s/(c*(uR*eR)0.5)  Where: is is the distance between the two wires, c is the speed of light in a vacuum, uR, and eR are the relative permeability, and relative permittivity of the material between the wires.  As that material is air, uR and eR are for practical purposes both 1.0, and the delay reduces to: s/c.  If the wires are 10cm apart, the delay is about 333ps.  It would take very specialized instruments to detect the delay. For practical purposes in problems of designing electrodynamic machines like motors, or generators, we can safely treat the delay as zero.

Now change each wire to an air core solenoid.  Two effects result:  For any given DC current the number of Amperes per meter increases by the number of turns per meter.  This also increases the inductance of each lead so that the amount of time that it takes any given voltage to change the current in each lead has now gone way up.  However, all our materials still have uR and eR effectively equal to 1.0 so the electromagnetic field between each conductor assembly still propagates at the speed of light.  Any current change in one winding will be sensed as a mechanical force change on the other winding in a few hundred picoseconds.  IE for any practical motor or generator it is an ignorable delay.

Next insert a material with a uR of 1000 but highly resistive material into the solenoid cores.  Now the magnetic fields are far more concentrated by the permeability of the core material, resulting in much greater Lorentz forces and much greater inductance in the windings. The higher core permeability also slows the propagation of the E/M field through the radius of each of our solenoids.  Our sub nanosecond propagation delay over  is now in the ~10 nanosecond range.  That's still such a short delay that we would ignore it in any practical motor or generator.

Next substitute a core material with the same permeability but with a low resistance.  The magnetic field change in either core that results from any change in current in the winding induces eddy currents in the core.  Those eddy currents establish an image field that opposes the change in magnetic flux.  The external E/M field is suppressed.  The faster the changes in current, the more suppressed that field is due to the induced eddy currents.  If we step the current and hold it, externally the field builds-up as the eddy currents die down.  If the resistance of the core material is very low, like in ingot iron it can take milliseconds for the eddy currents to die down after a current step.  If the cores were superconductors, the eddy currents would never die down and the external field would never respond to the change in winding current.

This is the sort of thing that you have been talking about.  Note that what is happening is energy is put into the system, and the action of the eddy currents is to oppose that energy doing external work.  The eddy currents convert useful energy into heat.  They create loss.  They are a direct result of:  Faraday induction.  Their orientation is determined by Lenz' Law.  The induced eddy currents are not delayed.  The image field that they develop opposes the change in field that induced them and the external result is that the net field changes much more slowly than the applied current.

When you have digested the above we can move on.

This comment says absloutly nothing about magnetic phase lag in core material. This is just a phony punk showing off!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 26, 2014, 02:32:42 PM
It does no such thing.It is just the opposite:  Saturated core = low inductance, introduces low phase lag in a series RL, or LC circuit.  Unsaturated core = much higher inductance and much greater series phase lag in the same series RL or LC circuit. The permeability is higher as is the inductance.  The resistance is unaffected.Yes synchro1 it is no big deal, and relatively easy to learn.  Please learn it correctly.

All this bullcrap is just a pack of lies.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 26, 2014, 02:37:05 PM
@MarkE,

Everything you say is just a steaming crock of shit! You're psychotic. Get help.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: tinman on December 26, 2014, 02:37:08 PM
There is no such thing as a "Lenz force".  There is Faraday induction, and there is Lorentz force.  Lenz' Law dictates the orientation of induced emf due to Faraday induction.  There is nothing that delays the orientation of induced EMF dictated by Lenz' Law.  There are mechanisms that delay external formation of a field such as eddy currents and magnetic viscosity.  Each of those examples are energy loss mechanisms.  If one wants to make a brake or a heater, they can be quite useful.  If one is trying to increase the efficiency of a motor or a generator they are to be carefully minimized.  If one is looking to obtain mechanical or electrical energy back from either of those mechanisms, that is never going to happen.  As the adage goes:  "Losses cannot be made up in volume." 

The Tinsel Koala experiment procedure is very instructive:  Take any mechanism where it is suspected or believed that the mechanism adds net energy, and conduct a null experiment with the alleged energy adding device replaced by a mechanically equivalent null device.  Test to see if the measure of energy is better with the proposed mechanism or its null equivalent.  These experiments quickly expose fallacies in the assumptions behind experiments that do not include a proper null.    In the case of alleged "delayed Lenz effect" devices: Each and every one fails to show energy advantage over its null equivalent.
Lenz's law- An electric current induced by a changing magnetic field will flow such that it will create its own magnetic field that opposes the magnetic field that created it.
So this is what we are trying to see if we can delay-the law that Lenz stated.
So when the guys say!lenz delay!,they mean they are trying to delay the magnetic field that opposes the magnetic field that created it-lenz's law.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 02:53:08 PM
@MarkE,

Everything you say is just a steaming crock of shit! You're psychotic. Get help.
Synchro1 is there a particular reason that you have chosen to play yourself as a fool?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 02:58:20 PM
Lenz's law- An electric current induced by a changing magnetic field will flow such that it will create its own magnetic field that opposes the magnetic field that created it.
So this is what we are trying to see if we can delay-the law that Lenz stated.
So when the guys say!lenz delay!,they mean they are trying to delay the magnetic field that opposes the magnetic field that created it-lenz's law.
Tinman Lenz states the direction of an induced emf.  That's it.  It is Faraday's Law of Induction that states that the emf is induced.  And it is the instant that the change in flux crosses the conductor.  Eddy currents orient in such a way as to resist the change in the net field.  They would not exist but for Faraday induction.  They are not delayed.

Quote
Quote
So when the guys say!lenz delay!,they mean they are trying to delay the magnetic field that opposes the magnetic field that created it-lenz's law.

See above for Lenz's Law. 

As to the alleged effect.  The very phenomena cited are counter examples to what you say these guys are hoping to find. 
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 26, 2014, 03:18:59 PM
Synchro1 is there a particular reason that you have chosen to play yourself as a fool?

@MarkE,

Everone knows your non stop bullshit is designed to keep people confused. I will begin to take steps to have you moderated if you keep this kind of Trolling up!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: tinman on December 26, 2014, 03:30:28 PM
Tinman Lenz states the direction of an induced emf.  That's it.  It is Faraday's Law of Induction that states that the emf is induced.  And it is the instant that the change in flux crosses the conductor.  Eddy currents orient in such a way as to resist the change in the net field.  They would not exist but for Faraday induction.  They are not delayed.


See above for Lenz's Law. 

As to the alleged effect.  The very phenomena cited are counter examples to what you say these guys are hoping to find.
http://regentsprep.org/regents/physics/phys08/clenslaw/

Quote wikipedia-Lenz's law-->An induced electromotive force (emf) always gives rise to a current whose magnetic field opposes the original change in magnetic flux.

Quote the fredictionary.com-The principle stating that an electric current induced by a source such as a changing magnetic field always creates a counterforce opposing the force inducing it. The law accounts for such phenomena as diamagnetism and the electrical properties of inductors.


http://www.phy-astr.gsu.edu/cymbalyuk/lecture24-25a.pdf

Seems to me that most sites i look at say that it is lenz's law that states that the emf is induced,as well as the direction.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: minnie on December 26, 2014, 03:38:56 PM



   Why moderate one of the few scientists willing to help you? I bet you'd rather
   waste the next 10yrs with idiot-fool ideas!
                          John
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 03:45:46 PM
http://regentsprep.org/regents/physics/phys08/clenslaw/

Quote wikipedia-Lenz's law-->An induced electromotive force (emf) always gives rise to a current whose magnetic field opposes the original change in magnetic flux.

Quote the fredictionary.com-The principle stating that an electric current induced by a source such as a changing magnetic field always creates a counterforce opposing the force inducing it. The law accounts for such phenomena as diamagnetism and the electrical properties of inductors.


http://www.phy-astr.gsu.edu/cymbalyuk/lecture24-25a.pdf

Seems to me that most sites i look at say that it is lenz's law that states that the emf is induced,as well as the direction.
You need to read the text of your references carefully.  They all have induced EMF due to a changing field crossing a conductor as a predicate requirement. 

Lenz was predated by Faraday.  Faraday states the induced voltage.  Lenz states only the direction of the induced voltage.

For example your wikipedia citation: 
Quote
Quote
An induced electromotive force (emf) always gives rise to a current whose magnetic field opposes the original change in magnetic flux.
The statement begins with the stipulation of an induced EMF, and then states the orientation of that EMF.  Ditto the fredictionary citation.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: tinman on December 26, 2014, 03:46:37 PM
Here it is plain and simple Mark. We all know what we are trying to say,as do you.
When a magnet aproaches an inductor(coil)under load,a magnetic field is produced by that inductor that apposes that of the aproaching magnet-most all the sites i visit state this under lenz's law--so we know what the hell is going on,and what we all mean here. We are trying to see if the back electromotive force (the apposing magnetic field from the inductor) can be delayed until such time as to not act against the approaching magnet of the rotor that created it in the first place-plain and simple. I have posted the links to a few site's that state that quite plainly under lenz's law,so maybe your next mission should be to get in contact with all those site's,and have them rewrite shit so as it dosnt confuse the hell out of everyone.

We know rocket science isnt really that complicated,ya just blast shit out of a small opening,and bob's ya uncle,away ya go. So why dose this have to be so hard,when all we want to do is delay the magnetic field that apposes the magnetic field that made it in the first place. I showed you scope shot's of a coil that is further away from the rotor leading in phase to that of one that is closer to the rotor,so why cant the reverse be done.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 03:47:25 PM
@MarkE,

Everone knows your non stop bullshit is designed to keep people confused. I will begin to take steps to have you moderated if you keep this kind of Trolling up!
Synchro1 you are really making a sad case of yourself.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MileHigh on December 26, 2014, 03:59:37 PM
@MarkE,

Everone knows your non stop bullshit is designed to keep people confused. I will begin to take steps to have you moderated if you keep this kind of Trolling up!

This type of behaviour is unacceptable.   I commend John/Minnie for denouncing this behaviour.  Synchro1 has been hurling abuse at people for a long time.

I am also denouncing Synchro1's behaviour.

I challenge the regular posters and others reading this to also denounce Synchro1's unacceptable behaviour.   I literally mean it - the challenge for you is to make a posting expressing your disdain for Synhro1's behaviour and to tell him to stop it.

If enough of you post expressing your disdain then perhaps Synchro1 will get the message and finally stop.

If you are walking down the street and you see two 14-year-old punks assaulting an old lady what do you do?  Do you just walk by and do nothing or do you try to stop it?  It's time for people to speak up.

Synchro1 has an opportunity to turn over a new leaf for 2015.  I am only stating this because there are limits to this kind of behaviour.  If we all do nothing then we are all passively condoning this kind of behaviour and therefore we all collectively share in the guilt.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d5d_1418089532
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 04:04:02 PM
Here it is plain and simple Mark. We all know what we are trying to say,as do you.
When a magnet aproaches an inductor(coil)under load,a magnetic field is produced by that inductor that apposes that of the aproaching magnet-most all the sites i visit state this under lenz's law--so we know what the hell is going on,and what we all mean here. We are trying to see if the back electromotive force (the apposing magnetic field from the inductor) can be delayed until such time as to not act against the approaching magnet of the rotor that created it in the first place-plain and simple.
Tinman the simple answer is that the best that anyone could ever do is make it appear as though there is no coupling.  IE that the configuration however constructed performs as well as TK's null tests.
Quote
I have posted the links to a few site's that state that quite plainly under lenz's law,so maybe your next mission should be to get in contact with all those site's,and have them rewrite shit so as it dosnt confuse the hell out of everyone.
One of the problems that arises when anyone can publish is that misleading information sometimes get published.  If we simply put aside the word "Lenz", and instead say "induced EMF", hopefully we recognize the orientation of that induced EMF is dictated according to Lenz' Law.  Do we agree on this point?  Do we also agree that the induced EMF is an immediate effect?  Do we agree that it is the current that you would like to delay, because it is the current that actually gives rise to the field that you want to try and manipulate to benefit?
Quote

We know rocket science isnt really that complicated,ya just blast shit out of a small opening,and bob's ya uncle,away ya go. So why dose this have to be so hard,when all we want to do is delay the magnetic field that apposes the magnetic field that made it in the first place. I showed you scope shot's of a coil that is further away from the rotor leading in phase to that of one that is closer to the rotor,so why cant the reverse be done.
A number of posts back I pointed out that there are ways to phase shift the current.  I also pointed out why the best result that can be had from doing so can only approximate having no induction at all.  I have explained that several times now.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 04:11:57 PM
This type of behaviour is unacceptable.   I commend John/Minnie for denouncing this behaviour.  Synchro1 has been hurling abuse at people for a long time.

I am also denouncing Synchro1's behaviour.

I challenge the regular posters and others reading this to also denounce Synchro1's unacceptable behaviour.   I literally mean it - the challenge for you is to make a posting expressing your disdain for Synhro1's behaviour and to tell him to stop it.

If enough of you post expressing your disdain then perhaps Synchro1 will get the message and finally stop.

If you are walking down the street and you see two 14-year-old punks assaulting an old lady what do you do?  Do you just walk by and do nothing or do you try to stop it?  It's time for people to speak up.

Synchro1 has an opportunity to turn over a new leaf for 2015.  I am only stating this because there are limits to this kind of behaviour.  If we all do nothing then we are all passively condoning this kind of behaviour and therefore we all collectively share in the guilt.
MH I think the best discretion is not to get upset by Synchro1's provocations.  Synchro1 is only hurting his own reputation.  His rants and now threats have no more teeth than anyone gives them by getting upset.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MileHigh on December 26, 2014, 04:15:26 PM
MH I think the best discretion is not to get upset by Synchro1's provocations.  Synchro1 is only hurting his own reputation.  His rants and now threats have no more teeth than anyone gives them by getting upset.

That is one point of view and it is valid.

However, there are also limits, and we share a collective responsibility to act like decent human beings.  We are all Synchro1's if we never say anything.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d5d_1418089532
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: tinman on December 26, 2014, 04:16:03 PM
A number of posts back I pointed out that there are ways to phase shift the current.  I also pointed out why the best result that can be had from doing so can only approximate having no induction at all.  I have explained that several times now.
Cool,i look forward to your explanation of my results on the other thread.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 04:30:50 PM
That is one point of view and it is valid.

However, there are also limits, and we share a collective responsibility to act like decent human beings.  We are all Synchro1's if we never say anything.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d5d_1418089532
I can assure you that I feel unscathed by Synchro1's chicken hawk style empty threats.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 26, 2014, 05:06:38 PM
@MarkE, Milehigh,

This is my thread. You assholes can go start your own thread.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MileHigh on December 26, 2014, 05:11:09 PM
I can assure you that I feel unscathed by Synchro1's chicken hawk style empty threats.

I understand that, but you are not the issue here.  It's a generic issue about how we collectively behave towards one another and if we will tolerate this kind of unacceptable behaviour without saying anything.

The challenge is for people to speak up and denounce this kind of behaviour.  It sometimes takes some guts and some character to stand up and say what is right and denounce what is wrong.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 26, 2014, 05:17:26 PM
I understand that, but you are not the issue here.  It's a generic issue about how we collectively behave towards one another and if we will tolerate this kind of unacceptable behaviour without saying anything.

The challenge is for people to speak up and denounce this kind of behaviour.  It sometimes takes some guts and some character to stand up and say what is right and denounce what is wrong.

Fuck you. You're off topic!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: tinman on December 26, 2014, 05:19:16 PM
You lot have a bad xmas or something?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 05:27:18 PM
I understand that, but you are not the issue here.  It's a generic issue about how we collectively behave towards one another and if we will tolerate this kind of unacceptable behaviour without saying anything.

The challenge is for people to speak up and denounce this kind of behaviour.  It sometimes takes some guts and some character to stand up and say what is right and denounce what is wrong.
If this were a place where I thought there were vulnerable people I would agree with you.  I don't believe that anything Synchro1 has written or could write is capable of causing actual harm to anyone or anything other than his own reputation.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 05:28:40 PM
You lot have a bad xmas or something?
I have heard rumors that marauding bands of penguin assassins made Christmas tough for many.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 26, 2014, 05:32:06 PM
The topic of this thread is magnet core coils and magnetic phase lag in the core material and how these factors cause "Delayed Lenz Effect". This subject has nothing to do with "Lorentz Force" in an electrical wire. I have every right to insist that the comments be confined to the subject under review. 

These errant contributors can start their own thread to discuss "Lorentz Force" in wires. MarkE has strayed too far off course. These commenters have to stick with the format.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MileHigh on December 26, 2014, 05:36:24 PM
If this were a place where I thought there were vulnerable people I would agree with you.  I don't believe that anything Synchro1 has written or could write is capable of causing actual harm to anyone or anything other than his own reputation.

It's purely an issue of principle.  It doesn't matter if harm is caused to anyone here or not.  On the other hand, there have been many vulnerable teens that have committed suicide because of online abuse and harassment.  There have been many high profile cases over the past few years.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 26, 2014, 05:39:31 PM
It's purely an issue of principle.  It doesn't matter if harm is caused to anyone here or not.  On the other hand, there have been many vulnerable teens that have committed suicide because of online abuse and harassment.  There have been many high profile cases over the past few years.

Start a social thread asshole!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MileHigh on December 26, 2014, 05:42:13 PM
Start a social thread asshole!

I strongly denounce your behaviour.  It's disgusting, it should stop immediately, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Anybody else have the courage to say that?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 05:47:36 PM
It's purely an issue of principle.  It doesn't matter if harm is caused to anyone here or not.  On the other hand, there have been many vulnerable teens that have committed suicide because of online abuse and harassment.  There have been many high profile cases over the past few years.
What choices we make I think should be guided by outcome expectations and risks.  Since I don't think that there is anyone vulnerable here like the tragically bullied teens we have read about, I don't think that there is anything done here that would instigate or avert a tragedy.  I think the choices center mostly around feeding bad behavior or refusing to reward it with emotion that it likely seeks.  It is tried and true that rewarding screaming children invites more screaming.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 05:52:40 PM
The topic of this thread is magnet core coils and magnetic phase lag in the core material and how these factors cause "Delayed Lenz Effect". This subject has nothing to do with "Lorentz Force" in an electrical wire. I have every right to insist that the comments be confined to the subject under review. 

These errant contributors can start their own thread to discuss "Lorentz Force" in wires. MarkE has strayed too far off course. These commenters have to stick with the format.
Actually, the Lorentz force has everything to do with the thread topic.  The thread has been discussing how delayed magnetic effects might make it possible to get some sort of mechanical assist in electrodynamic machines.  If one is looking for mechanical force from an electromagnet, one is looking for the Lorentz force.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 26, 2014, 05:54:47 PM
Actually, the Lorentz force has everything to do with the thread topic.  The thread has been discussing how delayed magnetic effects might make it possible to get some sort of mechanical assist in electrodynamic machines.  If one is looking for mechanical force from an electromagnet, one is looking for the Lorentz force.

Bullshit!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 26, 2014, 06:01:52 PM
I understand that, but you are not the issue here.  It's a generic issue about how we collectively behave towards one another and if we will tolerate this kind of unacceptable behaviour without saying anything.

The challenge is for people to speak up and denounce this kind of behaviour.  It sometimes takes some guts and some character to stand up and say what is right and denounce what is wrong.


A psychological ploy to shift the onus on those being subjected to 'mind herding', instead of where it belongs...on the paid shills here to derail threads where progress is being made toward energy self sufficiency.

Evidently the increasing number of people here that are realizing what they are doing, and who the perpetrators are are making their jobs less "enjoyable".

Keep fighting the good fight and stay the course.

Regards...

 
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 06:02:15 PM
Bullshit!
You can reject facts to your heart's content.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: minnie on December 26, 2014, 06:16:07 PM



  synchro,
           quit the offensive rants and study things like Lienard - Wiechert potential.
 Have a go at a bit of Newton!
                               John.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: ramset on December 26, 2014, 06:58:08 PM
Cap
its not about fighting ,or pointing fingers ..
at this point we know what we have to do [and are working on doing]
we have to LOOP it and run with true and honest gain...
period.


then it will grow quiet ....


Chet



Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MileHigh on December 26, 2014, 07:40:15 PM
Chet:

Of all people, you don't have the desire or courage to denounce Synchro1's behaviour?

When you have been pressed on supporting GDS Technologies you got all defensive and and moped and whined about how you were being treated.  You probably complained about your treatment over a dozen postings.

When some experimenters are challenged about their outlandish claims that make no sense at all, many times you have stepped in to defend the experimenters.  The poor experimenters are "fragile" and will be "run off the forum" if this "terrible" technical debate continues.

I am not going to read through your postings but I am pretty sure that you have run to the defense of experimenters time and time again when all that was taking place is that their highly dubious, if not outright ridiculous, claims were being firmly debated.  It's easy for experimenters to play the "wounded victim" and then you will rush to their defense and chastise the people that are debating with them and asking pointed and justified questions.

So?

How would you like it if somebody publicly posted that they would like to take a shit on your face?  You don't think that would cross the line or what?

If you had some guts you would denounce Synchro1's behaviour.  Chances are all that if five or ten people denounced Synchro1 then he would feel naked and humiliated, justifiably so, and he would put away the "insane potty-mouth jackass" character and conduct himself like a normal person.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 26, 2014, 11:16:22 PM
@MarkE & Milehigh,

You Con Artists look for "Delayed Lenz Effect" where there is none. Then you proclaim you can't find any, and conclude it's a falsehood. Don't you want to see that same old "Slip Knot Trick" again? You were asked by me to start your own threads. I want to see a B/H curve, not that same boring "Lorentz" side track formula.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 27, 2014, 12:05:47 AM
Read and confine you comments to this PDF:
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 27, 2014, 02:07:24 AM
Read and confine you comments to this PDF:
Synchro1 the Ferroxcube data manual primarily describes soft ferrites.  The ferrite offerings from quality manufacturers like TDK and Philips/Ferroxcube exhibit both high resistivity, and near zero magnetic viscosity.  The MnZn power ferrites are highly efficient in applications to nearly 1MHz.  IE even these lower frequency materials exhibit negligible opposition due to any cause.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 27, 2014, 02:11:28 AM
@MarkE & Milehigh,

You Con Artists look for "Delayed Lenz Effect" where there is none. Then you proclaim you can't find any, and conclude it's a falsehood. Don't you want to see that same old "Slip Knot Trick" again? You were asked by me to start your own threads. I want to see a B/H curve, not that same boring "Lorentz" side track formula.
Synchro1 you are creating a parody of yourself.  Here is your OP:

Quote
Quote
Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« on: June 09, 2013, 05:07:49 PM »

    Quote

I received a message from Bob Smith, asking if I ever tried a "Mag Amp". I'm opening this new thread so everyone can benefit from  Bob's knowhow.

Here's Igor's bedini-magnacoaster video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzNjAs3-9LA


Reply to your comment on: bedini-magnacoaster:

My question to Igor was; Does the rotor speed increase when you insert the iron magnet into the coil core? His answer:

"yes, it does, a little...
to get to the bottom of it we need to make an inductor from it !
here's the Vorktex secret - by oscillation (it's his "breaker") get a HF HV output; transform it down to HF HA output and than rectify it to the caps bank; and discharge it to batteries to run the inverters to run the oscillator ... looped...
btw, like your antygravity tests...

cheers"


This confirms the rotor acceleration. The question remains, is this "Lenz Delay Effect"? My theory is that the magnet interferes with coil efficiency, inducing the delay! Extending the output coil core length appears to slow the coil's performance down too!


Here's Igor's video on the solid state "magnacoaster effect":


This experiment is basicly the same as the Dragone. Impulse demagnetization is generating OU power.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWhsJWXEER4[/size]
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: NoBull on December 27, 2014, 02:46:51 AM
All this bullcrap is just a pack of lies.
I am afraid he is correct about the magnetic effects of ferromagnetic saturation.

However, I have never investigated the relation between magnetic saturation and electric conductivity of ferromagnetic materials, so I am not qualified to have an opinion about that little piece of trivia.

I disagree with Synchro's As Hominem remarks, insults and vulgarisms.  They have no place in a scientific discussions.
It has been my experience that people resort to such expletives when their argument cannot withstand a logical debate.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 27, 2014, 03:00:03 AM
@MarkE,

There's good general material in this publication. You act like there's nothing to be gained from it because your want to act smarter. You make me sick.

Here on the top of page 9:

"When the flux density of a core increases, hystrysis losses are more noticable".
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: ramset on December 27, 2014, 03:15:10 AM
MH
not sure what your talking about...me whining and Moping...about GDS




My comment to Cap had nothing to do with any specific event in this thread..
Twas just a comment ...


However
Synchro is talking "Pooping in your Puss...??"


yeesh
come on Guys
Synchro
is that true??
   I kid you not,   Stephan will throw your potty mouth out the door if he reads that??
no bar of soap in the mouth... nothing but  WOOOSH...Gonzo...


you fellahs gotta figure out how to relax this Nasty stuff...


Puss Poopin.....
yeesh..

Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 27, 2014, 03:33:44 AM
@MarkE,

There's good general material in this publication. You act like there's nothing to be gained from it because your want to act smarter. You make me sick.

Here on the top of page 9:

"When the flux density of a core increases, hystrysis losses are more noticable".
Synchro1 you are all over the map.  Now you are off inventing straw men to slay.  In a discussion of delayed external magnetic fields you threw out a nearly thousand page catalog of soft ferrites that are almost entirely free of such delays.  When I pointed that fact out, you invented the notion that I demeaned that fine catalog and your supposed indignation at your invented notion.  Your protests are just getting sillier and sillier.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 27, 2014, 03:40:56 AM
I strongly denounce your behaviour.  It's disgusting, it should stop immediately, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Anybody else have the courage to say that?

Syncro1 is the poster boy for why software developers added the moderation feature...yet, after all of his nasty name calling and abuse, he suggests that HE is going to report someone to be moderated?  Even if he might have something technical to bring to the topic, no one will see it because of his insults and abuse to those who question his concepts.

I almost fell out of my chair when I read that he was going to report folks for moderation.  I must have entered the Bazzaro world or something.

Just remember, we can (If we try) agree to disagree or, better yet, learn something from someone that knows more than we do.  No need for insults.

I am trying to improve my own posts in this manner.

Bill
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 27, 2014, 03:57:35 AM
I don't like him. I don't like Milehigh either.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 27, 2014, 04:08:52 AM
Synchro1 the Ferroxcube data manual primarily describes soft ferrites.  The ferrite offerings from quality manufacturers like TDK and Philips/Ferroxcube exhibit both high resistivity, and near zero magnetic viscosity.  The MnZn power ferrites are highly efficient in applications to nearly 1MHz.  IE even these lower frequency materials exhibit negligible opposition due to any cause.

This is just more complete "Bullshit". The document is just general education material. He's acting too Smart.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MileHigh on December 27, 2014, 05:23:36 AM
Chet:

Thank you for your comments.

Quote
Synchro
is that true??
   I kid you not,   Stephan will throw your potty mouth out the door if he reads that??
no bar of soap in the mouth... nothing but  WOOOSH...Gonzo...

Yes, it actually is true.  Please see attached.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MileHigh on December 27, 2014, 05:46:30 AM
Bill:

Thank you for your comments, and thank your stepping up to the plate.  I too try to improve my posts and not get into trash talk that is abusive towards other people.  I know that I can have strong opinions sometimes and that can upset people, but I try my best to keep it on a technical level.  You can have strong opinions about something technical, especially if it is a truly nonsensical proposition you are discussing.  Especially if it is coming from what you consider to be a criminal con with an extremely high degree of confidence.  I realize even that can and should be moderated at times.  But to abuse people personally is just plain wrong.  On the flip side, if you are not the abuser but the abusee, then there are limits.

Just look at society.  I know that's an old cliche.  I watched one of those creepy traffic accident clips once where cars were at a red light and there is a gruesome accident that happens in front of the waiting cars.  A car is badly crushed by a truck.  Then, the light changes and all of the cars just drive off.  I almost cried when I saw that.  Several people could have been bleeding out in the crushed car and their lives could have been in the balance, but nobody got out of their cars to see if they could help.  It's sick and sometime what transpires on chat forums is sick.  The human condition is a very fragile thing.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 27, 2014, 06:16:04 AM
Bill:

Thank you for your comments, and thank your stepping up to the plate.  I too try to improve my posts and not get into trash talk that is abusive towards other people.  I know that I can have strong opinions sometimes and that can upset people, but I try my best to keep it on a technical level.  You can have strong opinions about something technical, especially if it is a truly nonsensical proposition you are discussing.  Especially if it is coming from what you consider to be a criminal con with an extremely high degree of confidence.  I realize even that can and should be moderated at times.  But to abuse people personally is just plain wrong.  On the flip side, if you are not the abuser but the abusee, then there are limits.

Just look at society.  I know that's an old cliche.  I watched one of those creepy traffic accident clips once where cars were at a red light and there is a gruesome accident that happens in front of the waiting cars.  A car is badly crushed by a truck.  Then, the light changes and all of the cars just drive off.  I almost cried when I saw that.  Several people could have been bleeding out in the crushed car and their lives could have been in the balance, but nobody got out of their cars to see if they could help.  It's sick and sometime what transpires on chat forums is sick.  The human condition is a very fragile thing.

MileHigh

MH:

The human condition right now is in the toilet...not everyone...but way too many.  A 92 year old black women here in town had her Christmas lights stolen.  Another guy, who hid his Christmas gifts in his car in his driveway  (safe place to hide from his 4 kids) had it broken into and the gifts are gone.

There is a lot of good going on too, we just don't hear about it.

I have gotten into it with a few folks on this forum and, I am not proud of that.  I am trying to do better.  You and I did not always see eye to eye either in the early days...but...the more I learned and the more research I did...I realized that you were correct...and that really pissed me off, ha ha.

But seriously,  If we all take a deep breath now and then, maybe we can communicate in a somewhat decent manner.  It only takes one to start the personal attacks, and then the attacked person will strike back in defense.  This probably turns off newcomers to this site when they see this.  Veterans like us can look past most of it and see some good experiments being performed, and people learning how to do good measurements.

I like Mark's attitude on this.  He gets attacked even more than you or TK and yet, manages to say something like "that is a bunch of crap." and not "Your mother is a ....(fill in the blank)" 

So, one of my resolutions for the new year is...to be a nice as possible online.  I will not suffer abuse gladly mind you, but I will try as hard as I can not to be sucked into mindless arguments with idiots.  I will just let it pass. (hopefully)

Once again, I do thank you, Mark, TK, Groundloop, Electricme, Tinman, Tommy Reed, and all of the other folks that actually have real working knowledge of this science who share it willingly, sometimes at a personal cost.  Maybe together we can set an example for folks arriving at this site that would say that we love debate and honest discourse, but will not tolerate personal attacks and insults.  I tried to do that with the original JT topic and it worked well more often than it did not.

I can say "I agree with you Sir" just as easy as I can say "I disagree with you Sir."  Or, "I believe that your conclusions are not correct."  We will still get attacked now and then, but we should resist getting down to their level.

OK, off my soapbox now.

Thank you to all that have taught me so much,

Bill
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 27, 2014, 06:46:39 PM
@Milehigh,

What about all the demeaning and abusive language you've insulted me with? I just copied your style. Both you and MarkE get paid to run rubbish into this forum. Then you reverse the blame. Why is it that the two of you have me personally targeted me as a full time occuption? You're the last one to talk about propriety. You act like a savage animal. Everyne knows you're an abomination. You're a Jackal on the veldt and a Cannibal. Stephan wised-up to your two faced routine already. You can just get used to the back flack or hit the road.

My point is that: "Magnets toughen the Weiss Domains and delay re-polarization in the core material".
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MileHigh on December 27, 2014, 08:35:24 PM
Synchro1:

I am not paid to go on this forum.  Nor is Mark.  The whole idea is ridiculous.  I don't even believe that you believe what you are saying.  The rest of your posting is just the same tired old tomfoolery.

You are the instigator and you push enough and once in a while you are going to get some push back.  You have an opportunity to stop right now and you should take it.

Going forward from this point on you can act like a normal person if you really want to.  I mean that on a personal level and on a technical level.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 27, 2014, 10:30:15 PM
I need a simple test done: The materials required are a ferrite core and magnets. The instrument, a multi-meter with an Ohms detector. Now, if the Ohms reading across the ferrite changes with a variation in magnetic viscosity, we can carry forward wih an important tool! 
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 27, 2014, 10:50:50 PM
@Milehigh,

What about all the demeaning and abusive language you've insulted me with? I just copied your style. Both you and MarkE get paid to run rubbish into this forum.
And on what facts do you base that absurd allegation?  Do you realize that when you assert obviously false nonsense that it's your credibility that you hurt?
Quote
Then you reverse the blame. Why is it that the two of you have me personally targeted me as a full time occuption? You're the last one to talk about propriety. You act like a savage animal. Everyne knows you're an abomination. You're a Jackal on the veldt and a Cannibal. Stephan wised-up to your two faced routine already. You can just get used to the back flack or hit the road.

My point is that: "Magnets toughen the Weiss Domains and delay re-polarization in the core material".
Is your idea that domains work harden?  If for example I take a rod of 3D8 material and then magnetize to saturation once, how many times must I cyclically take it to saturation in the opposite direction and then to saturation in the first direction before the hysteresis increases by say 10%?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 27, 2014, 10:52:49 PM
I need a simple test done: The materials required are a ferrite core and magnets. The instrument, a multi-meter with an Ohms detector. Now, if the Ohms reading across the ferrite changes with a variation in magnetic viscosity, we can carry forward wih an important tool!
Most DMMs will not be able to register the DC resistance across a ferrite core.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 28, 2014, 12:42:22 AM
Most DMMs will not be able to register the DC resistance across a ferrite core.

You're just completely full of shit!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 28, 2014, 01:15:31 AM
You're just completely full of shit!
Take any ferrite used for EMI control such as a 4C65 right out of the Ferroxcube catalog that you linked.  The volume resistivity is about 10MegOhm * Meters.  A half inch square cross section one inch long is:  1E7 * 1 / ( (0.5*0.0254)2) or ~62G Ohms.  Power ferrites like a 3C94 have much lower volume resistivities.  3C80 material is listed around 4Ohm * Meters.  The same 0.5" square by 1" long piece would be in the 24K Ohm range.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 28, 2014, 04:40:45 AM
@MarkE,

Here it is translated from Mandrian Chinese:


In general, resistivity of intrinsic semiconductors decreases with increasing temperature.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 28, 2014, 04:52:25 AM
Increasing magnetic flux density in the ferrite by fastening magnets to it causes One: Magnostriction. The material will shrink because the electron orbits align. Two: Adiabatic cooling and Three: Increased resestivity. So the Ohmic resistance will rise with the addition of the magnets. Contrary to what MarkE said, any DMM With a good battery and Ohms detector will work!

The important relationship here is between the increase in Ohmic resistance and the delay in the re-polarization of the ferrite. The higher the Ohms, the greater the DLE.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 28, 2014, 05:39:14 AM
That solves the positioner problem. All we need to do now is to wire the Ohms detector electrodes from the ferrite core to the 731 Op Amp  to raise and lower the pivot sheer magnet adjustor at the back of the core.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 28, 2014, 05:44:09 AM
@MarkE,

Here it is translated from Mandrian Chinese:


In general, resistivity of intrinsic semiconductors decreases with increasing temperature.
And the context for this nonsequitur is?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 28, 2014, 05:53:32 AM
Increasing magnetic flux density in the ferrite by fastening magnets to it causes One: Magnostriction. The material will shrink because the electron orbits align. Two: Adiabatic cooling and Three: Increased resestivity. So the Ohmic resistance will rise with the addition of the magnets. Contrary to what MarkE said, any DMM With a good battery and Ohms detector will work!

The important relationship here is between the increase in Ohmic resistance and the delay in the re-polarization of the ferrite. The higher the Ohms, the greater the DLE.
I'd like to see you show a drop in resistance measured by your favorite DMM on any chunk of NiZn ferrite that you care to choose by subjecting it to a magnetic field.  If you can manage such a thing you either have a big thin sheet of material with conductive contact plates on each side and/or a really good DMM.

It would also be fun for you to demonstrate measurable magnetostriction in a ferrite of your choice MnZn or NiZn.  Making the wires buzz from magnetostriction does not count as showing the ferrite core deform.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 28, 2014, 05:56:39 AM
Is that a typo?  Did you mean a uA731 voltage regulator or an LM741 Op-Amp?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 28, 2014, 05:38:14 PM
I'd like to see you show a drop in resistance measured by your favorite DMM on any chunk of NiZn ferrite that you care to choose by subjecting it to a magnetic field.  If you can manage such a thing you either have a big thin sheet of material with conductive contact plates on each side and/or a really good DMM.

It would also be fun for you to demonstrate measurable magnetostriction in a ferrite of your choice MnZn or NiZn.  Making the wires buzz from magnetostriction does not count as showing the ferrite core deform.

@MarkE,

I would bet money you never even tried it. I never specified any particular grade of ferrite. Ferrite is a gray ceramic metal with crystaline molecular structure that has both semi-conductor and piezo-electric properties. Don't you think it would make more sense to tailor the choice of ferrite characteristics to the task rather then to some arbitrary selection you chose as an example to falsely demonstrate it's impracticality? All you do is shoot wet farts over everything.

I deeply resent you trivializing the measure of core resistivity in Ohms as a sensor for an Op Amp flux density regulator. Part numbers can switch around depending on the manufacturer as you well know! These improvements cover two parameters. A positioner screw to change the rotor gap and a flux density contoller for the core.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 28, 2014, 06:27:15 PM
@MarkE,

I would bet money you never even tried it. I never specified any particular grade of ferrite. Ferrite is a gray ceramic metal with crystaline molecular structure that has both semi-conductor and piezo-electric characteristics. Don't you think it would make more sense to tailor the choice of ferrite qualities to the task rather then to some arbitrary selection you chose as an example to falsely demonstrate it's impracticality? All you do is shoot wet farts over everything.

I deeply resent you trivializing the measure of core resistivity in Ohms as a sensor for an Op Amp flux density regulator. Part numbers can switch around depending on the manufacturer as you well know! This covers two parameters. A screw to change the rotor gap and a flux density contoller for the core.
Then you would bet wrong.  You deeply resent a straw man you just built?  Well then good for you.  Those straw men can be tough characters.  Are you imagining some conversation that you think you have been having?  Perhaps you would like to point out the posts where you proposed a design and it was unfairly shot down.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 28, 2014, 06:40:52 PM
The Op Amp "levitator" circuit could inlude the "Globe" type of efficient electromagnetic magnet augmented  coil. This would mount on the back of the magnet stack instead of the permanent magnet pivot sheer, and resemble a smaller versión of the large GAP magnet core coil. This kind of "Flux Balancing" actuator would probably result in a much finer tuning range.

Let's review the chain of events: The rotor achieves DLE at CMF and accelerates. The increased rotor frequency raises the flux density in the coil core and delays re-polarization that advances the reflected wave too far from TDC stalling the acceleration. The Ohm sensor detects a rise in resistivity and the controller coil weakens the field which retards the timeing, and acceleration resumes!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 28, 2014, 06:44:15 PM
Then you would bet wrong.  You deeply resent a straw man you just built?  Well then good for you.  Those straw men can be tough characters.  Are you imagining some conversation that you think you have been having?  Perhaps you would like to point out the posts where you proposed a design and it was unfairly shot down.

I'm the inventor MarkE! You're just a case of pediculosis.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 28, 2014, 07:06:26 PM
I'm the inventor MarkE! You're just a case of pediculosis.
It seems you've invented imaginary conversations and men of straw to slay.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 28, 2014, 07:19:02 PM
It seems you've invented imaginary conversations and men of straw to slay.

I performed a series of tests last year involving series bifilar resonance and rise in Ohmic resistance in a ferrite core with a permeability of 1000. I conduct a tutorial on this thread. A tiny trimmer pot would deliver all the increase in detector sensitivity required.

This concludes the discussion.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 29, 2014, 04:10:01 PM
Look at this Ohm meter to Op Amp circuit schematic: The negative electrode of the 9volt battery just connects directly to the 22K resistor then to the number 4 pin of te Op Amp.

Here's a good video by TinselKoala where he adds a couple of transistors to this type of sensor to run a push pull electric motor or an electro magnetic coil:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hNEpCwRX_k
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 29, 2014, 04:55:18 PM
Look at this Ohm meter to Op Amp circuit schematic: The negative electrode of the 9volt battery just connects directly to the 22K resistor then to the number 4 pin of te Op Amp.
What is there to see?  It's a bridge that reverses balance when a small enough external resistor is connected.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 29, 2014, 05:13:13 PM
A small electo-magnetic coil with backing magnets could amplify or neutralize the field strength and control the flux density of the output coil core. The flux density of the output coil core regulates the re-polarization delay and the timing of the reflected propulsion wave. This will supply continued acceleration to the rotor.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 29, 2014, 05:21:23 PM
So you think that would be the basis for a successful OU device?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 29, 2014, 05:24:24 PM
What is there to see?  It's a bridge that reverses balance when a small enough external resistor is connected.

You managed to get that much figured out on your own. Further proof you're a real Einstien!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 29, 2014, 05:55:25 PM
You managed to get that much figured out on your own. Further proof you're a real Einstien!
The question is why are you asking people to look at your simple circuit?  What do you claim is special about it?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 29, 2014, 06:01:02 PM
The actual circuit would require two Op Amps at 15 volts and look more like this:

The first schematic is a simple continuity tester. Just a building block. This circuit connects to two transistors, as shown in TK's  video; A PNP and an NPN.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 29, 2014, 06:21:55 PM
The measured correspondence between ferrite core flux and Ohmic resistance is very pronounced. Very small changes in flux density have an imediate and amplified effect on changes in Ohmic resistance measurements in high pearmeability ferrite. Any DMM can easily get a large reading. 

Precise timing for DLE is critical. The increase in magnet rotor acceleration from DLE raises the flux density of the core and throws the timing off by lengthening the delay. The "Levitator" circuitry reduces core flux density and restores the balance so the phase lag is retarded sufficiently to sustain acceleration from the output coil alone.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: NoBull on December 29, 2014, 11:51:22 PM
The measured correspondence between ferrite core flux and Ohmic resistance is very pronounced. Very small changes in flux density have an imediate and amplified effect on changes in Ohmic resistance measurements in high pearmeability ferrite. Any DMM can easily get a large reading. 
Please let us know what ferrite material you are referring to.
There are many different kinds of ferrites out there, with different conductivities, different permeabilities, saturation points, remanences, hysteresis losses and even different colors!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 30, 2014, 01:42:02 AM
Please let us know what ferrite material you are referring to.
There are many different kinds of ferrites out there, with different conductivities, different permeabilities, saturation points, remanences, hysteresis losses and even different colors!

@NoBull,

Here's a link to a supplier: This is the ferrite rod Lasersaber used for his Joule Ringer "3". This Ferrite Rod has a permeability rating of 1000. A real miracle material! This is the one I ran the Flux Density Ohmic resistance tests on. Another one of it's "Super Properties". We'd need to cut it into four 2" plugs for the coil cores, or any size to suit.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-by-5-8-625-ferrite-rod-good-for-hf-balun-/280918638410?pt=US_Ham_Radio_Amplifiers&hash=item41680e3f4a
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 30, 2014, 01:56:59 AM
We need to first raise the flux density of the ferrite coil core to a mean density level externally. Only then can we contol it. The core alone only has a floor. There's no way to reduce it! Once we establish a supplied level with magnets, then we have adjustment latitude for a balance range.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 30, 2014, 08:01:54 AM
This link takes you to the Aeroelectric web site. You need to type Ohm meter in the google search engine, then click on the link to get the PDF. This is a booster pack that adds power to a DMM:

www.aeroelectric.com/.../LowOhmsAdapter_3.pdf

The key to interfacing the boosted DMM readout to the Op Amp is the "Zener Diode".
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 30, 2014, 05:13:26 PM
This link takes you to the Aeroelectric web site. You need to type Ohm meter in the google search engine, then click on the link to get the PDF. This is a booster pack that adds power to a DMM:

www.aeroelectric.com/.../LowOhmsAdapter_3.pdf

The key to interfacing the boosted DMM readout to the Op Amp is the "Zener Diode".
There is no "boost".  It is a regulated current source packaged with leads to make a 4 wire Kelvin connection.  The best part about the circuit is that it only draws power from the batteries when the probes connect across a resistance.  The range of resistances that one can read depends on how low one's voltmeter can go and how much current one can supply from their current source.  For garden variety DMMs where the lowest scale is 200 Ohms, a device like this can extend that way down.  A 100mA source will make the 200mV range on a DMM read 2 Ohms full scale.  Just be sure that circuit under test can tolerate 100mA.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 30, 2014, 10:36:52 PM


Simple Variable Zener Diode:

There are several variable zener diodes available in IC market, but in Sri Lanka it is difficult to obtain variable zener diodes. (For example LM431) So I build this circuit to get the functionality of Variable Zener diode. This circuit is based on two transistors and for Q1 you can use any general purpose NPN transistor and for Q2 use any general purpose PNP transistor.

The LM431 is easier to find in America. Nice circuit though!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 30, 2014, 10:43:36 PM

Simple Variable Zener Diode:

There are several variable zener diodes available in IC market, but in Sri Lanka it is difficult to obtain variable zener diodes. (For example LM431) So I build this circuit to get the functionality of Variable Zener diode. This circuit is based on two transistors and for Q1 you can use any general purpose NPN transistor and for Q2 use any general purpose PNP transistor.

The LM431 is easier to find in America. Nice circuit though!
Can't you order parts from China?  The circuit that you show is not temperature stable.  You could fix the circuit with a thermistor and a couple of resistors, or just buy any voltage reference.  The TL431 is over 35 years old.  You should be able to obtain one as easily as any Op-Amp or garden variety transistor.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 30, 2014, 10:55:59 PM
Can't you order parts from China?  The circuit that you show is not temperature stable.  You could fix the circuit with a thermistor and a couple of resistors, or just buy any voltage reference.  The TL431 is over 35 years old.  You should be able to obtain one as easily as any Op-Amp or garden variety transistor.

My Television's 35 years old and works fine without junk parts from China or smart alek advice from know it all punks. There's always some kind of stupid ass problem our of you. It's always some sort of trouble you make to sound as smart as smart can be. You're just a blood sucking arachnid.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on December 30, 2014, 11:15:22 PM
My Television's 35 years old and works fine without junk parts from China or smart alek advice from know it all punks. There's always some kind of stupid ass problem our of you. It's always some sort of trouble you make to sound as smart as smart can be. You're just a blood sucking arachnid.
Unless you are cannibalizing your TV for parts, your TV is rather irrelevant to what will get you a decent adjustable voltage reference.  Your simple circuit doesn't have any form of temperature compensation/stabilization.  TL431's are ubiquitous and almost as cheap as one or two transistors.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: minnie on December 31, 2014, 02:15:31 AM



    Oh dear synchro1.
                          John.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 31, 2014, 08:57:42 PM
This kind of "Magnet Positioner" from RWG'S Levitator kit could be powered directly by a D.C. motor attached to the screw. The motor would simply have to be mounted to slide along behind the screw between ridge rails.

This video by TK shows a D.C  motor reversing from a voltage divider circuit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUsA-YuAtBU

Rotor acceleration increases from DLE, raising flux density and Ohmic resistance in the ferrite core. The circuit senses this and backs the magnet away from behind reducing flux density in the core. This balance should permit DLE acceleration to resume.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on December 31, 2014, 10:41:16 PM
A small push pull solenoid like this would probably work even better:
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 01, 2015, 12:30:39 AM
There's a whole family of cheap "Electro-Magnetic Holding Solenoids":
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 01, 2015, 12:46:43 AM
Look at this family of linear stepper motors: This motor positions the sideview mirror in your car.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 01, 2015, 01:46:36 AM
Look at the minimum travel distance: Five Ten thousadths of an inch! Coupled with a maximum of four hundred forty eight ounces of pull force! That's controlling "Twenty Eight" whopping pounds of magnet force over such a miniscule distance! This looks like a winner for the small Price.

Standard Features

Reversible motion
Captive or non-captive
Unipolar or bipolar Ball bearings
5V or 12V coils
Frame size from 20 mm up to 57 mm
7.5° or 15° step angle
Linear travel per step from 0.0005" (0.0127 mm) up to 0.004" (0.1016
mm)
Linear pull out force from 8.3N (30 oz)  up to 124.6N (448 oz)

 The advantage is that a permanent magnet consumes no power when the stepper motor rests in position!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 01, 2015, 03:48:11 AM
Here's a link to the web site and a cut out of the motor; The Axel shaft diameter can be gauged to fit cleanly inside an axial tube magnet hole. Power, positioning accuracy, efficiency and price put the stepper way out in front over all the other alternatives! This one's controlled by a Microprocessor.

This solves the circuitry problem very nicely on the positioner end.


http://www.portescap.com/products/linear-stepper-actuator/understanding-linear-stepper-actuator
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 02, 2015, 04:56:03 AM
Ramset uploaded this Chris Sykes video on field cancelling coils. These kinds of coils may help reduce the flux density in the output coil ferrite core wired to a resistive load. These kinds of coils may make the stepper motor uneeded!

This an is interesting assertion from Floyd Sweett out of the "Bucking Coil" PDF, as it bears out my "Flux Density to Ohmic resistance" proportion:

"It is the Magnetic Field itself that creates drag; it creates Friction on Electric Charge itself".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-V1z2TdQJA&feature=youtu.be

This PDF is wild too:

http://www.hyiq.org/Downloads/Guidelines%20to%20Bucking%20Coils.pdf
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 02, 2015, 06:54:46 PM
I should have a new DMM monday. I plan to wrap my magnet fastened ferrite core with "Bucking Coils" to see if they act as a flux suppressor and register a loss of resistivity in lowered Ohmic resistance. This combination could result in a great DLE acceleration controller.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 02, 2015, 08:14:30 PM
Here's a better picture: This coil's merely a conductor. It needs a power source and a load. It dosen't consume power like an electromagnet: The ouput coil would wrap around this coil. It would be possible to run current through this " Core Flux Density Suppressor Coil" from the output coil to a storage cap, with only minimal losses to resistance.

One simple Zener bypass diode might be all that's needed to divert current from the output coil through the core suppressor coils, simply activated by a rise in output voltage alone.

This should prolong DLE acceleration. The initial acceleration increases core viscosity and phase lag along with output coil voltage. The Zener diode, calibrated to allow current to flow at that level, begins to charge the core's "Bucking Coils". This in turn should counter core flux density and reduce phase lag to once again restore acceleration. Zener's come in escalating varieties, which would increase current flow to the suppressor coils with increasing output coil voltage. Pretty neat soloution to a formerly highly complex problem.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on January 02, 2015, 10:24:14 PM
Hi folks, Hi synchro, i read the pdf yesterday and made some quick observations today.
Here is what i posted from other forum.
Hi folks, finished winding the coils.
 Just a quick observation, until i hook up the bifilar oscillator that is wound on only one half of the ferrite bead or over only one of the partnered opposite wound coils.
 Using the 2 lithium ion in series and a neo magnet to check for magnetic field poles on coil/core, it seems the same magnetic poles are at each end of the ferrite core.
 And at the same time, in the center of the core, where i left a 1/4" space, there is a proper north and south magnetic pole.
 This is observed because the neo magnet pulls to one coil and the other repels.
 Normally, if two coils are partnered in such a fashion as to create the same magnetic pole at each end of the core, we would have a cancellation field in the center, or two like poles at the center.
 I think i see why sykes speaks about maintaining electric polarity integrity.
 I should have given this more thought in the past.
peace love light
Edit: oops, didnt think that through, of course the magnet will attract and repel at center, because they are the same pole.
Anyway, will be testing this.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 02, 2015, 11:17:49 PM
@SkyWatcher123,

Awesome! You gave me an idea. This may be the final one involvng the

"Tunnel Diode"!

"The negative resistance region (between points A and B) is the important characteristic for the tunnel diode. In this region, as the voltage is increased, the current decreases; just the opposite of a conventional diode. The most important specifications for the tunnel diode are the Peak Voltage (Vp), Peak Current (Ip) , Valley Voltage (Vv), and Valley Current (Iv)".

Let's say we wind the ferrite core with a single wire coil. No magnets. The core's polarity would be singular N out. At CMF for DLE the rotor accelerates and the core density rises increasing phase lag. Now the "Tunnel Diode" which Works backwards from a regular diode senses the rise in output voltage and begins to decrease the current to the single wire core wrap reducing flux density!

I believe my innovation is finally finished now.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: Bob Smith on January 03, 2015, 12:13:54 AM
Hey Synchro1
So are you proposing the tunnel diode as a degenerate semiconductor (I think Bearden has written about it)?
Bob
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 03, 2015, 03:14:02 AM
Hey Synchro1
So are you proposing the tunnel diode as a degenerate semiconductor (I think Bearden has written about it)?
Bob

@Bob,

I'm very pleased by the simplicity of the finished coil. I replaced the permanent magnets with an electro-magnet core that's powered by it's own output coil. The beauty of the "Tunnel Diode" is that it can demagnetize the core as the rotor speed increases to compensate for the additional external flux. This reverse voltage feedback feature should stabilize the "Phase Lag" and help sustain DLE acceleration. This coil has no moving parts and requires no external power source. A self energized reverse Lenz propulsion output coil. The Age of "Free Energy" may be at our doorstep!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on January 03, 2015, 08:47:40 AM
Hi folks, Hi synchro, after making many different tests with this setup.
I have found that when the partnered coil wire ends, at the center, are connected and the outside wire ends connected, for a parallel wiring configuration, a reduction of input occurs when loaded with the 6 watt non-modified led bulb.
Unloaded self oscillator input is 3.5 volts @ .7 amps or 2.45 watts.
When partnered secondary coils are loaded with led bulb, input is .52 amps or 1.82 watts, with nice light output.
With a 220 nanofarad non-polarized capacitor is shunted directly across secondary coil output, input is then .4 amps or 1.4 watts.
Seems interesting.
peace love light ;)
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 03, 2015, 08:48:38 PM
@SkyWatcher123,

"Edit: oops, didnt think that through, of course the magnet will attract and repel at center, because they are the same pole.
Anyway, will be testing this".

You should have two "Bucking South Poles" at the center. What would happen to the input if you dead shorted the secondary leads?

Fascinating results! The capacitor delivers the largest input drop. What would happen if you increased capacitance value?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 04, 2015, 12:45:56 AM
@SkyWatcher123,

Could you run a few simple core resistivity tests for me? Just set your DMM to the Oh's reading scale and see if it will register a reading form the ferrite core at rest. Then take a few more readings after the oscillation begins, then again after some run time has elapsed. Thanks!

Synchro
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on January 04, 2015, 02:28:58 AM
Hi synchro, not sure if results are amazing, they do seem different.
When secondary coils output is shorted, amp draw increases to .9 amps.
Checked from end to end of ferrite bead core with dmm up to highest 20 megaohm resistance setting and no readings show at all.
While pulsing, no readings show and after giving a rest, still no readings.
Will be trying higher capacity capacitor later and see what that does.
peace love light
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 04, 2015, 03:36:18 AM
Hi synchro, not sure if results are amazing, they do seem different.
When secondary coils output is shorted, amp draw increases to .9 amps.
Checked from end to end of ferrite bead core with dmm up to highest 20 megaohm resistance setting and no readings show at all.
While pulsing, no readings show and after giving a rest, still no readings.
Will be trying higher capacity capacitor later and see what that does.
peace love light

That Ohms test may indicate that the "Bucking Fields" have cancelled out. Can you attach a few magnets to the core and see if that makes a difference? The ferrite may have too low a permeability rating to get a reading from.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on January 04, 2015, 06:04:14 AM
Hi synchro, i placed a neo magnet at each end in same and opposite polarity and still no ohm reading.
I'm thinking about winding another bifilar over the other half in opposite winding direction.
It will then be bucking against the other bifilar when oscillating, though it might be worth seeing what happens.
Here is the schematic as it is now.
peace love light
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on January 04, 2015, 06:13:25 AM
Oh and here is a picture.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 04, 2015, 05:26:25 PM
@SkyWatcher123,

Thanks for trying. I'm glad I switched from Ohms to voltage to regulate the flux. The "Bucking Coil Inverter" looks really clean!

One final improvement:

I realized my DLE "Flux Controller Coil" needs a sister "Zener Diode" to channel output coil current to the storage capacitor, joined to the "Tunnel Diode". These two diodes would need to be connected by their input electrodes to "Fork" the current from the output coil. When the output coil voltage rose sufficiently, the "Tunnel Diode" would begin to restrict current flow to the internal electro-magnet core coil, as the "Zener Diode" opened up, permitting current to simultaineously flow from the output coil to the storage capacitor. Two seperate storage capacitors, offset in size with common grounds, might help. These "Symbiotic Siamese" diodes would combine to assist one another. They could nestle neatly together hidden behind a coil Wall. This finished coil would be difficult to tell apart from any ordinary coil at first glance. The difference is that this DLE "Synchro Output Coil" hides an intelligent core.

The "Tunnel Diode" can grow susceptible to back leakage after it reaches it's valley. A third standard diode in series between the electro-magent coil and it's charging capacitor would prevent this. I think that solves the entire problem. I would choose the same gauge enamel coated magnet wire for both coils perhaps 28 gauge, with a thin dielectric insulator between the coils. 1/2" high perm ferrite core with a few layers for the electro-magnet coil and a 2 to 3 depth to width ratio for the output coil. Plenty of thin wire turns! The core coil should have a N pole facing a N pole faceing out monopole rotor. Good luck!

This coil would be a major break through, have a COP of one over infinity, and replace nuclear fission if it worked as planned. A quantum leap in the field of free energy. Brace yourself for "Warp Factor Futue shock". Everyone has my blessings. May the force be with you! "Power to the People"!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on January 05, 2015, 07:30:52 AM
Hi folks, Hi synchro, i think i see what you are trying to describe, though some kind of imagery would help.
I decided to see if just one of the partnered secondary coils, the one under the bifilar oscillator, would light the led bulb the same and it did not.
It drew .7 amps and did not light the led bulb.
However, when i connected only one end of the other secondary coil, the wire end at the center of core, the led bulb lighted to the same intensity at the same amp draw of .52 amps.
Keep in mind, both secondary coils were in parallel to begin with, so why only the one coil would not light the led bulb is odd.
Not sure what to make of these observations yet, any ideas are welcome.
I wonder if i take only one wire from each partnered secondary coil and connect that to the led bulb, will it light at same intensity.
Which would basically mean, two open circuit coils.
Seems like slayer exciter behaviour a bit.
peace love light
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on January 05, 2015, 09:04:58 AM
Hi folks.
Ok, i tried the open circuit wiring for each separate bucking secondary coil and it works.
With basically two open circuit secondary coils, meaning one wire end from each connected to the led bulb, lights the bulb to the same brightness as before, using same .52 amps, actually seems a little bit brighter.
I took wire end from coil under oscillator at end of core and other wire end from center of other coil and this is powering the bulb.
Any thoughts welcome.
peace love light
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 06, 2015, 06:04:13 AM
These graphs represent the current and voltage of the Tunnel and Zener diodes: You can see how the turn on voltage of the Zener in red at the bottom, corresponds to the peak and current drop of the Tunnel in blue at the top:

The Tunnel charges the electro-magnet core which helps to lower the critical mínimum frequency for delayed Lenz effect. The rotor should be timed to speed up at the voltage peak in blue, at which time the tunnel starts to reduce current to the electro-magnet core to balance the increased rotor flux. The Zener begins to conduct the output  current at this point and sends it to the storage capacitor. This flux balancing should stabilize phase lag and sustain Lenz reversed rotor propulsión.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on January 06, 2015, 06:13:58 AM
These graphs represent the current and voltage of the Tunnel and Zener diodes: You can see how the turn on voltage of the Zener in red at the bottom, corresponds to the peak and current drop of the Tunnel in blue at the top:
Quadrant 1 operation of a Zener diode is like any ordinary junction diode.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 06, 2015, 06:26:20 AM
Quadrant 1 operation of a Zener diode is like any ordinary junction diode.

So what. That's just to make you look Smart.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on January 06, 2015, 06:31:08 AM
So what. That's just to make you look Smart.
It raises the question why you want to compare a Zener diode to a tunnel diode in Quadrant 1, when the behavior that makes a Zener unique and useful is all in Quadrant 3.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 06, 2015, 07:09:19 AM
It raises the question why you want to compare a Zener diode to a tunnel diode in Quadrant 1, when the behavior that makes a Zener unique and useful is all in Quadrant 3.

Get lost you pest!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 06, 2015, 03:32:06 PM
On further reflection I see the "Linear Stepper Motor" as a good addition to the "Intelligent Core" output coil's overall performace. The micro-processor controlled positioner can be regulated by the main capacitor charging rate. The coil-rotor gap is another very important flux control parameter and needs to partner with the core dampener.

After the core's completely de-fluxed and the charging surge from the conducting Zener reaches the main storage capacitor, the stepper motor needs to begin to retract the core away from the accelerating rotor at a precise and tiny incremental amount.

The coil needs three phases. One; the initial rotor acceleration phase to CMF, which is lowered by Two; the diode controlled core flux management followed by Three; the incremental linear stepper motor re-positioning.

A seperate power coil for run up can serve a dual purpose and function as a drag inducing output coil to help stabilize rotor speed.

                                                        The power of "Lenz Reversed Acceleration" is limitless!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MileHigh on January 06, 2015, 05:23:51 PM
J'arrive!  J'arrive!!!  J'arrive!!!!!!!!!   lol
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: NoBull on January 06, 2015, 06:07:23 PM
WTF?  :o
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MileHigh on January 06, 2015, 06:10:47 PM
WTF?  :o

I need a cigarette.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: NoBull on January 06, 2015, 06:22:03 PM
What is Synchro writing about?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MileHigh on January 06, 2015, 06:35:11 PM
I have no clue but ask him to show a circuit and a timing diagram and it will stop the fantasy cold in its tracks.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 06, 2015, 07:23:25 PM
I have no clue but ask him to show a circuit and a timing diagram and it will stop the fantasy cold in its tracks.

You don't run me chump! You're just a three shift bullshit Factory.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 06, 2015, 11:16:45 PM
@MileHigh,

I'm not naive about the point you raised. It would take a team of professional actuator programers to work an actual program out to get the "Linear Stepper Motor" to behave right, but it's not an impossible task. The output coil woud need the same kind of motor and software interface. There's a company in Boston called "Epsilon" that could handle this kind of assignment. It would take enough investment and probably involve patents. However, the finished product with the software would return the investment multi-fold.

That's if you want something to take with you to Mars. That leaves alot of other approaches to fudge in with in between.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on January 07, 2015, 01:58:54 AM
@MileHigh,

I'm not naive about the point you raised. It would take a team of professional actuator programers to work an actual program out to get the "Linear Stepper Motor" to behave right, but it's not an impossible task. The output coil woud need the same kind of motor and software interface. There's a company in Boston called "Epsilon" that could handle this kind of assignment. It would take enough investment and probably involve patents. However, the finished product with the software would return the investment multi-fold.

That's if you want something to take with you to Mars. That leaves alot of other approaches to fudge in with in between.
But of course such an investment would be a complete waste of time and money.  Capturing a portion of energy, losing a good deal of that to heat, storing what's left, losing more of it to heat during storage, and then returning a less than 100% fraction of what remains just introduces loss into a system.  Losses are not made up in volume.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 07, 2015, 02:03:11 AM
But of course such an investment would be a complete waste of time and money.  Capturing a portion of energy, losing a good deal of that to heat, storing what's left, losing more of it to heat during storage, and then returning a less than 100% fraction of what remains just introduces loss into a system.  Losses are not made up in volume.

My run away speed ups were accompanied by cooling.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on January 07, 2015, 02:04:42 AM
My run away speed ups were accompanied by cooling.
Great for you.  Be sure to let everyone know the day that Hell freezes over and you are able to successfully close the loop and make a self-runner.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 07, 2015, 02:06:53 AM
Great for you.  Be sure to let everyone know the day that Hell freezes over and you are able to successfully close the loop and make a self-runner.

Steam punk!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on January 07, 2015, 02:23:26 AM
Steam punk is great.  The trouble here is that no matter how you configure your contraption, it will perform worse than if you simply didn't induce any current into a secondary in the first place.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 07, 2015, 02:58:36 AM
Steam punk is great.  The trouble here is that no matter how you configure your contraption, it will perform worse than if you simply didn't induce any current into a secondary in the first place.

The Chris Sykes PDF showed a test on page 13 and 14 where a magnetic field slowed current by a very measurable amount in copper wire. His test proves DLE is more then a just a core effect and involves the coil as well.

http://www.hyiq.org/Downloads/Guidelines%20to%20Bucking%20Coils.pdf

Anyone interested in prolonging the acceleration effect beyond what the diode coil can deliver can simply turn a thumb screw by hand.

Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on January 07, 2015, 03:11:31 AM
The Chris Sikes PDF showed a test on page 13 and 14 where a magnetic field slowed current by a very measurable amount in copper wire. His test proves DLE is more then a just a core effect and involves the coil as well.

Anyone interested in prolonging the acceleration effect beyond what the diode coil can deliver can simply turn a thumb screw by hand.
Inductors slow the propagation of currents quite effectively.  They do that by conforming to Lenz without any delay at all.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 07, 2015, 03:54:09 AM
Inductors slow the propagation of currents quite effectively.  They do that by conforming to Lenz without any delay at all.

The test shows that the presence of a magnetic field slows the current in an inductor more then the inductor slows the current in the abscence of the field. It dosen't sound like you even took time to look at the test. You're just parroting some more drill work.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on January 07, 2015, 04:18:03 AM
The test shows that the presence of a magnetic field slows the current in an inductor more then the inductor slows the current in the abscence of the field. It dosen't sound like you even took time to look at the test. You're just parroting some more drill work.
It is not that difficult to change the bias on an inductor so as to change where it operates on its B-H curve.  Magnetic amplifiers were all the rage a century ago.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 07, 2015, 04:50:07 AM
@MarkE,

Why do you have a problem understanding that a magnet rotor might travel at a speed fast enough to beat the opposite field formed by the approaching magnet in the output coil enough to reverse the drag effect and get a push instead? You should also be able to understand how a magnet core in an output coil would retard the efficiency of the coil, and make it easier for the rotor magnet to speed past TDC. What's your problem with understanding that?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on January 07, 2015, 05:20:40 AM
@MarkE,

Why do you have a problem understanding that a magnet rotor might travel at a speed fast enough to beat the opposite field formed by the approaching magnet in the output coil enough to reverse the drag effect and get a push instead? You should also be able to understand how a magnet core in an output coil would retard the efficiency of the coil, and make it easier for the rotor magnet to speed past TDC. What's your problem with understanding that?
Synchro1 the problem is a simple one of energy balance:  Energy is borrowed from one process, passed through a number of lossy processes and the balance is supplied back to the original process.  The result is by definition always lossy.  In order to be able to put more energy back than your original process borrows, you have to get an energy gain somewhere along the way.  Until and if someone finds such an overunity intermediary process, there is no hope of the overall process even reaching break even.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 07, 2015, 05:44:05 AM
Synchro1 the problem is a simple one of energy balance:  Energy is borrowed from one process, passed through a number of lossy processes and the balance is supplied back to the original process.  The result is by definition always lossy.  In order to be able to put more energy back than your original process borrows, you have to get an energy gain somewhere along the way.  Until and if someone finds such an overunity intermediary process, there is no hope of the overall process even reaching break even.

Where's the answers to the two simple questions I asked you?

We have to compare what you say with the kind of test results reported by reputable people like JLN:

"When the LOAD IS CONNECTED the RPM speed is DOUBLED and the INPUT POWER DROPS dramatically".
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on January 07, 2015, 06:36:20 AM
Where's the answers to the two simple questions I asked you?

We have to compare what you say with the kind of test results reported by reputable people like JLN:

"When the LOAD IS CONNECTED the RPM speed is DOUBLED and the INPUT POWER DROPS dramatically".
Isn't it amazing how much more efficient an inefficient thing can become when one reduces the inefficiency?  You are still stuck with the same fundamental problem:  Finding more energy at the output of any of the intermediary processes than at the inputs.  Alas, it is not to be.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 07, 2015, 12:40:47 PM
@MarkE,

Take a look at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ttm13AyiMs

What you see taking place in this video is very close to what output coil DLE achieves.

How do you measure the force on a piezo crystal exerted by the permanent pressure of a screw that's tightened down on it? The crystal will generate electrical power from the force of the mechanical pressure exerted by the screw, but there's no longer any external input. I want you to apply this thought to the video.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on January 07, 2015, 12:55:39 PM
@MarkE,

Take a look at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ttm13AyiMs

How do you measure the force on a piezo crystal exerted by the permanent pressure of a screw that's tightened down on it? The crystal will generate electrical power from the force of the mechanical pressure exerted by the screw, but there's no longer any external input. I want you to apply this thought to the video.
Piezo strain sensors have been around for decades and decades.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 07, 2015, 01:30:21 PM
Piezo strain sensors have been around for decades and decades.

What did you get from the video? I'm reporting bursts of acceleration on the order of 25k over a matter of seconds!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on January 07, 2015, 01:58:11 PM
What did you get from the video? I'm reporting bursts of acceleration on the order of 25k over a matter of seconds!
Man moves magnets by hand.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 07, 2015, 02:21:45 PM
Man moves magnets by hand.

Man can squeeze a piezo the same way. Got it?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on January 07, 2015, 03:09:43 PM
Man can squeeze a piezo the same way. Got it?
You can have all the free energy you want:  Just find someone who will work for free.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 07, 2015, 03:29:30 PM
You can have all the free energy you want:  Just find someone who will work for free.

You are dumb as a brick!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 07, 2015, 03:36:17 PM
Two magnets placed in attraction, just outside the neutral zone, will come together with more force then it takes to move one into the event zone. This might be viewed as an overunity event, unless you convert the Gauss into Joules of coil masking force. However, there really are no Joules expended because the magnets are powered and replenished from the quantum plane. That's why it's free power. Larskro is not spinning the magnets by hand, he's directing magnetic forces that are spinning the magnets by hand. These forces can be increased along with the free power. There's no way Larskro's hand is transfering all that spin power into the twirling magnets.

Look closely at the tiny corrections Larskro makes with the matchbox in the video. Those are the kind of corrections it took for me to achieve hyper-acceleration with the thread spool coil. I uploaded pictures of it on this thread. I describe it as a Barkhausen spike; 25K per second!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ttm13AyiMs
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 07, 2015, 05:05:38 PM
The air core thread spool coil was wraped and wired series bifilar. Lets say the reed switch fused closed in series with the battery. That would make the coil an electro-magnet. What pole would be facing the diametric tube spinner? Would the pole reverse if the battery electrodes were switched around? Would it make a difference?

MarkE pretends he can help when all he does is make cheap "Mutthead" wise cracks.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 07, 2015, 06:21:32 PM
I don't need any answers from MarkE or MileHigh, they're both just a couple of educated fools. The tiny spool coil, charged as an electro-magnet is still goverened by the Lenz force from the diametric spinner. The high speed of the spinner coupled with the retarding effect of the magnetizem in the coil resulted in "Lenz Reversed Acceleration". Case closed! My current conception is based on that understanding, and includes an "Electro-Magnet Core". Those two Bozos are just off in the corner wearing "Dunce Caps"!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 07, 2015, 06:56:42 PM
Everone's seen DLE fom shorted ouput coils held to magnet rotors, right! Try one shorted across a battery and see what happens!

Shorting a coil across a battery makes an "Electro-Magnet". Test one of those for "Lenz Reversed Propulsion".
Once the inductor's saturated, it no longer draws any power. Any rotor acceleration you achieve after that will amount to overunity power from zero input.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 07, 2015, 08:22:21 PM
There's a cooling effect from the rotor flux at high R.PM. that's very noticable. A coil shorted to a battery would normally heat up and fry in no time. Exposure to dense rotor flux dampens the current and cools the coil. The coil's self induced electro-magnetizem lowers CMF, (Critical Mínimum Frequency) for DLE. Don't be afraid to try it straight up, with no transistor.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on January 07, 2015, 08:32:12 PM
You are dumb as a brick!
Unfortunately a brick will outperform any scheme you might come up with to collect energy and reapply it to your motor.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 07, 2015, 09:18:00 PM
@MarkE,

I uploaded a video of a bearingless Bedini neo sphere spinning inside a "Lenz Propulsion" spiral output core looped to source and charging the run battery along with a second BEMF charged battery. I ran it overnight with no problems. You can view it on my Zebok3 YouTube channel if you choose. You make too large an issue out of it when it's nothing special. Where are your videos? Why should I have any respect for you when you're just a phony "Egghead" like MileHigh, with no videos either? I grow sick of your chronic cynicism.

"Some people are real and some people are good! Some people are fake and some people are real good at being fake"!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MileHigh on January 07, 2015, 09:57:12 PM
You are making the claims.  Do you have the cojones to build and demo your "over unity" pulse spinner?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on January 07, 2015, 10:00:21 PM
@MarkE,

I uploaded a video of a bearingless Bedini neo sphere spinning inside a "Lenz Propulsion" spiral output core looped to source and charging the run battery along with a second BEMF charged battery. I ran it overnight with no problems. You can view it on my Zebok3 YouTube channel if you choose. You make too large an issue out of it when it's nothing special. Where are your videos? Why should I have any respect for you when you're just a phony "Egghead" like MileHigh, with no videos either? I grow sick of your chronic cynicism.

"Some people are real and some people are good! Some people are fake and some people are real good at being fake"!
And yet when it is said and done, the batteries all discharge faster than if you had built nothing.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 08, 2015, 03:11:14 AM
Here's some useful information about the series bifilar coil; The coil dosen't work well with the electrodes reversed; There's really only one correct way to hook it up to a battery:

"A bifilar coil, as per the tesla patent, runs two insulated wires in paralell and then connects them in series. You then connect the start of the first wire to the positive and the end of the second wire to the negative of the battery. This then increases the efficiency of the electromagnet".

This kind of air core electro-magnet solenoid coil just connected to a battery and positioned in close adjacency to a fast spinning diametric neo tube magnet will deliver "Reverse Lenz Propulsion" that will power the rotor by itself with no input from a pulse coil above CMF.

All one needs to do is "Fish for the sweet spot" like we see Larskro do with the matchbox in his video!

This is the one that worked! When something works, don't fix it. You could run the spinner up with a reed switch in series between the positive pole of the battery and the start wire of the coil, then switch over to a dead short straight to the battery for "Lenz Reverse Acceleration".




Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 08, 2015, 07:29:26 PM
These Chris Sykes test results explain how current slows down in a magnetic field:

"The Coil is BiFilar Wound Non Inductive Mode. Inductance Measurement on coil shows there is a residual Inductance of 0.24mH. DC Coil Resistance is 3.8 Ohms each Filar and 1.9 Ohms parallel and 7.8 Ohms Series.  This is an expected behaviour for the Current in the Coil when the Inductance Changes. Here we have shown that for the same Resistance, (7.8 Ohms Series), that the Current Flow in the Conductor can move at a MUCH Faster rate even though the Resistance of the Conductor has NOT Changed! This proves that the Magnetic Field Slows the Charge Flow Rates dramatically. The Speed of the Flow Rate, 650 Micro Seconds compared to 75 micro seconds for charge time with the magnetic field".

Bifilar "Non Inductive Mode" refers to the identical "Series Connected" Bifilar configuration I tested.

What happens when we short the Reed switch from the battery to the bifilar coil and create a magnetic field in the coil? The induced current from the spinning magnet rotor is slowed down, and the reverse pole formation in the coil is retarded.

It would take a DPDT switch to fully disconnect the Reed switch and provide a pure path for the battery current.

Powering the rotor wth a Reed switch pulse from the battery is radically different from powering the rotor from magnetic field induced "Lenz Reversal". Firstly, there's no longer a switch imposed upward limit on the rotor speed!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 08, 2015, 11:28:40 PM
The Tesla Bifilar:

"In this configuration the two wires are wound the same way and then connected in series so that the current flows in the same direction. This allows the magnetic fields to combine to produce a larger overall field".

The "Non Inductive Series Connected Bifilar Coil" does not Project a "Pole Bias". The Reed switch alone selects the individual "Pulse Pole" from the two pole diametric spinner.

The Reed switch is triggered by only one of the two magnet poles. After the Reed switch contacts "Spot Weld" together at 25K RPM, "Lenz Reversal" takes effect and causes two propulsion events per rotation and the rotor speed doubles to 50K RPM almost instantly! After this speed doubling, the coil can no longer pass current through it's windings due to the super-flux barrier, the input amp meter pegs at zero, and the coil cools rapidly.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 09, 2015, 01:55:13 AM
These are test results reported by JLN, where's the similarity?

"When the LOAD IS CONNECTED the RPM speed is DOUBLED and the INPUT POWER DROPS dramatically".

Here's a picture of his monopole rotor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC7u7-gTdPI#t=267


Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on January 09, 2015, 02:55:44 AM
These are test results reported by JLN, where's the similarity?

"When the LOAD IS CONNECTED the RPM speed is DOUBLED and the INPUT POWER DROPS dramatically".

Here's a picture of his monopole rotor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC7u7-gTdPI#t=267
I think that you will find that if you alternate the magnets you will get better performance.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 09, 2015, 03:00:37 AM
JLN garnishes 2.3 watts in BEMF from his twin power coils. Does moving this current generate a magnetic field inside the coils that slows the current speed? I believe this is the common denominator for "Lenz Reversal".
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 09, 2015, 05:52:36 AM
FR2-5-2RS Full Ceramic Flanged Bearing 1/8"x5/16"x9/64" inch ZrO2
 
Price: $173.49

Magnet ring.

Dimensions: 1" od x 1/4" id x 1" thick
Tolerances: ±0.004" x ±0.004" x ±0.004"
Material: NdFeB, Grade N42
Plating/Coating: Ni-Cu-Ni (Nickel)
Magnetization Direction: Diametrical
Weight: 3.19 oz. (90.5 g)
Pull Force, Case 1: 40.44 lbs
Pull Force, Case 2: 49.01 lbs
Surface Field: 6909 Gauss
Brmax: 13,200 Gauss
BHmax: 42 MGOe

These rings are diametrically magnetized, which means they are magnetized perpendicular to the axis of the hole. The poles are located on opposite sides of the circular faces. They can be placed on a shaft to work with sensors or to generate electricity.

2 ceramic bearings  $346.98. One 1" neo tube  $22.77 Total cost:  $369.75

These bearings are a Little over sized. Sanding the bore hole just a tiny amount will allow these ceramic bearings to pressure fit just right. A brass rod can sand down just enough also to squeeze through the 1/8" ID bearing hole.

Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: MarkE on January 09, 2015, 05:57:07 AM
JLN garnishes 2.3 watts in BEMF from his twin power coils. Does moving this current generate a magnetic field inside the coils that slows the current speed? I believe this is the common denominator for "Lenz Reversal".
Why are you showing a depiction of a TEM wave?
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 09, 2015, 06:08:50 AM
Why are you showing a depiction of a TEM wave?

Forget about the picture. Focus on the content!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 09, 2015, 06:34:33 AM
R2-5-2RS Full Ceramic Bearing 1/8"x5/16"x9/64" inch ZrO2 Bearings
 
Price: $46.88

This is the same bearing without the flange: Total cost for the 2 bearings and the 1" tube magnet $116.53

Here's the link:

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/CTGY/1-8inch

Here's the link for the tube magnet:

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=16

This small investment of $116.53 will put in the Hyper-Sonic RPM speed range. Don't neglect the "PVC coupling" safty housing!

The trick to mounting these bearings is First: Avoid glue!

Just sand each end of the 1/8" brass axle, and leave a thicker portion in the center for the bearings to squeeze onto. The magnet was pre-sanded to squeeze fit the OD and it all pressure fits. When your're ready the axle pushes through one side of the PVC coupling, the magnet slides on then one bearing, then the axle pushes through the other side to slde the other bearing on then it all press fits in the center. A bit of craftsmanship required. You won't regret it. A tiny push rollllllllls on seemingly forever!

A small air core series bifilar power coil, a Reed switch and a DPDT throw switch and you'll be in for the thrill of a life time with the "Hyper Speed Burst"!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 09, 2015, 04:17:22 PM
FR2-5-2RS Full Ceramic Flanged Bearing 1/8"x5/16"x9/64" inch ZrO2
 
Price: $173.49

Magnet ring.

Dimensions: 1" od x 1/4" id x 1" thick
Tolerances: ±0.004" x ±0.004" x ±0.004"
Material: NdFeB, Grade N42
Plating/Coating: Ni-Cu-Ni (Nickel)
Magnetization Direction: Diametrical
Weight: 3.19 oz. (90.5 g)
Pull Force, Case 1: 40.44 lbs
Pull Force, Case 2: 49.01 lbs
Surface Field: 6909 Gauss
Brmax: 13,200 Gauss
BHmax: 42 MGOe

These rings are diametrically magnetized, which means they are magnetized perpendicular to the axis of the hole. The poles are located on opposite sides of the circular faces. They can be placed on a shaft to work with sensors or to generate electricity.

2 ceramic bearings  $346.98. One 1" neo tube  $22.77 Total cost:  $369.75

These bearings are a Little over sized. Sanding the bore hole just a tiny amount will allow these ceramic bearings to pressure fit just right. A brass rod can sand down just enough also to squeeze through the 1/8" ID bearing hole.

Good luck sanding the I.D. of those bearings as that material is harder than the material used on your sandpaper.  You could use specialized diamond paper, but it is very expensive.  A properly sized diamond reamer would be the most cost-effective way to do this.

Bill
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: Paul-R on January 09, 2015, 04:22:35 PM
Good luck sanding the I.D. of those bearings as that material is harder than the material used on your sandpaper.  You could use specialized diamond paper, but it is very expensive.  A properly sized diamond reamer would be the most cost-effective way to do this.

Bill
It might  pay to  hire - or ask  a machine shop how much they charge per hour.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 09, 2015, 04:58:59 PM
It might  pay to  hire - or ask  a machine shop how much they charge per hour.

@Pirate88179,

The OD of the bearing is 5/16". The ID of the magnet tube is 1/4" that means the bore hole in the magnet needs to be enlarged by approximetely 1/32" and it's the magnet not the bearing I'm refering to. Sorry if I confused you. It might help to drill it out. Same goes for the bearing ID of 1/8". Assuming the brass axle rod is also 1/8", the brass rod needs to be be sanded, not the bearing. I would put tape at the ends where the magnet lines up and use a block to butt the rod up against then attach an electric drill to rotate it in a sandpaper sandwich. That would leave a full 1/8" thick section the length of the tube magnet in the center of the brass axle. Now the ends of that might need a tiny reduction, because lateral pressure on those bearings is potentially destructive. Any pressure needs to be applied to the base or the top of the bearing casing, depending on where the squeeze joint is. The flanged bearing might be safe to glue.

Just the vapors alone from some kinds of glue is enough to degrade the perfection of the precision ceramic balls. Once securely mounted, these kinds of ceramic bearings have extended longevity.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 10, 2015, 01:57:06 AM
@Pirate88179,

The OD of the bearing is 5/16". The ID of the magnet tube is 1/4" that means the bore hole in the magnet needs to be enlarged by approximetely 1/32" and it's the magnet not the bearing I'm refering to. Sorry if I confused you. It might help to drill it out. Same goes for the bearing ID of 1/8". Assuming the brass axle rod is also 1/8", the brass rod needs to be be sanded, not the bearing. I would put tape at the ends where the magnet lines up and use a block to butt the rod up against then attach an electric drill to rotate it in a sandpaper sandwich. That would leave a full 1/8" thick section the length of the tube magnet in the center of the brass axle. Now the ends of that might need a tiny reduction, because lateral pressure on those bearings is potentially destructive. Any pressure needs to be applied to the base or the top of the bearing casing, depending on where the squeeze joint is. The flanged bearing might be safe to glue.

Just the vapors alone from some kinds of glue is enough to degrade the perfection of the precision ceramic balls. Once securely mounted, these kinds of ceramic bearings have extended longevity.

Ah, I see...never mind.  It is entirely possible that it was I that misunderstood you.  Ceramic bearings are great, and there are, of course, various grades.  I have found that the ones sold for skate boards and roller blades are actually pretty good and about 1/3 of the price you mentioned.  If yours is a higher precision than, that would make sense.

Bill
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 10, 2015, 02:35:53 AM
Ah, I see...never mind.  It is entirely possible that it was I that misunderstood you.  Ceramic bearings are great, and there are, of course, various grades.  I have found that the ones sold for skate boards and roller blades are actually pretty good and about 1/3 of the price you mentioned.  If yours is a higher precision than, that would make sense.

Bill

@Pirate88179,

The problem with the cheaper ones is that the ceramic ball bearings are set in stainless steel casings and all the stainless steel is unfortunatly magnetic. I just recieved two messages from manufacturers today confirming this. I believe that the presence of this material close to the magnet rotor will create drag and eddy currents and slow the rotor down. Lidmotor uses them at the ends of an extended axle with a high degree of satisfaction, but for internal magnet bearings I'm certain that the "All Ceramics" are far superior.

Here's the answer I got for the one pictured below:

A seller answered your question, "is the stainless steel non-magnetic?" about 1/8 x 1/4" Flanged Ceramic Miniature Ball.... 

Essam answered:

 "Hello,

"All of our Stainless steal has magnetic in it".

Thank you"
 
 
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 10, 2015, 05:14:26 AM
@Pirate88179,

A carbon fiber axle would help mitigate the effects of the magnetic stainless Steel. The advantage is that they would stick to the sides of the magnet. I think they're worth a try for the Price. There'd still be a homopolar vortex generated, but who knows how much it would hurt?

Here's a set of 4 from Amazon like the one pictured above for $35.03 plus free shipping!


by VXB
1/8 x 1/4" Flanged Ceramic Miniature Ball Bearings, Stainless, Shielded (Set of 4).
 
 Price: $35.03  & FREE Shipping. Details
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 10, 2015, 06:47:36 AM
@Pirate88179,

The problem with the cheaper ones is that the ceramic ball bearings are set in stainless steel casings and all the stainless steel is unfortunatly magnetic. I just recieved two messages from manufacturers today confirming this. I believe that the presence of this material close to the magnet rotor will create drag and eddy currents and slow the rotor down. Lidmotor uses them at the ends of an extended axle with a high degree of satisfaction, but for internal magnet bearings I'm certain that the "All Ceramics" are far superior.

Here's the answer I got for the one pictured below:

A seller answered your question, "is the stainless steel non-magnetic?" about 1/8 x 1/4" Flanged Ceramic Miniature Ball.... 

Essam answered:

 "Hello,

"All of our Stainless steal has magnetic in it".

Thank you"

OK, maybe I can help with this as we were in on the design and creation of ceramic bearings long ago.  All, not most, but ALL of the benefits of making/using a "ceramic" bearing go to hell if you use a metal race.  Not just for your experiments, but, think about this....-you have this very hard material and it is very wear resistant and chemical resistant, and you surround the contact for this material using a much softer material......what you have is crap!

In other words...(I also worked on this project for GM)  you have piston rings made from ceramic which is good for wear...BUT, the mating surface of your cylinders is aluminum...(or even steel) ok, do the math.  No benefits at all, and....even faster wear.

Who the hell makes bearings like this?  The ones I looked at from skateboards "looked" like total ceramic, but...I have never purchased any and if they involve steel then...it is crap.

Bill
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 10, 2015, 08:43:56 PM
Here's a DPDT schematic and picture of a blade switch: #1 connects directly to #2. #3 connects to the positive terminal of the battery and #4 to the start wire of the bifilar. #5 connects to the positve side of the Reed switch and #6 the negative side of the Reed switch. The end wire of the bifilar connects to the negative pole of the battery.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 11, 2015, 01:39:09 AM
Once the blade switch shorts the coil directly to the battery, the coil turns into a D.C. electro-magnet. Current draw becomes limited after that by the standard formula of voltage divided by resistance, I=V/R. Any rotor acceleration followed by the direct connection would necessarily defy the second law of thermodynamics, and would serve as unconditional proof of an overunity circumstance.

This test, if successful, would catagorically confirm "Lenz Reversal" as an overunity effect once and for all and not a "Zero Sum" mechanism as our "Cynics" falsely maintain.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: verpies on January 11, 2015, 11:24:07 AM
Once the blade switch shorts the coil directly to the battery, the coil turns into a D.C. electro-magnet.
Not at once.
After the switch closes, this (http://overunity.com/15095/pulse-motor-build-off-time/msg427460/#msg427460) happens first.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 11, 2015, 07:33:21 PM
Not at once.
After the switch closes, this (http://overunity.com/15095/pulse-motor-build-off-time/msg427460/#msg427460) happens first.

@Verpies,

Your working schematic includes both a resistor and a ferromagnetic core, neither of which are present in the air core electro-magnet design. Only the "V' and the "Switch" are there, not the "R" and the "L".
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 11, 2015, 07:53:00 PM
Here's the part number for the exact dimension "All Ceramic Bearing" I first used from BOCAS BEARINGS. This one slips perfectly inside the  1/4" neo-tube magnet bore hole with no machining necessary. OD .250!

R144-T9/P58 LD ZRO2 (.125x.250x.093) - $48.95 each.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: verpies on January 11, 2015, 08:10:06 PM
Your working schematic includes both a resistor and a ferromagnetic core, neither of which are present in the air core electro-magnet design.
Yes, the schematic includes a core but the core is superfluous.  An air core coil behaves the same way - it still has inductance (L), only less than a coil with a ferro core
.
The resistor accounts for the resistance of the coil's winding as well, so unless you have a superconducting coil you also have this resistance (R).

In the end, an ordinary air core coil behaves the same way when pulsed.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 12, 2015, 05:50:20 PM
Let's take one more look at JLN'S monopole rotor: Everyone can see it's really nothing but a piece of crap at first glance! Look at how far the bottem magnets are out of line. The rotor speed is severly limited by it's friction and balance imprecision. A bearingless monopole constructed like Skycollecton's with four diametric neo bar magnets attached to a square iron nut covered by a coopper sleeve and riding on a ball bearing, would continue to accelerate far beyond the 6,000 RPM JLN doubles up to. 600,000 RPM might be more like it! The input to the power coils would drop even further. This is what I'm refering to when I state that "Lenz Reverse Acceleration" is practically limitless.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 12, 2015, 07:02:31 PM
An air core bearingless Bedini could transition to "Reverse Lenz Propulsion" with two switches: One switch would have to connect the trigger and the power coils serially and the other would have to short the new serial bifilar coil correctly to the battery. This would charge the hybid bifilar with the phase lag magnetic field and accelerate a diametric neo sphere by "Reverse Lenz Propulsion", or "RLP" above "Critical Mínimum Frequency".

The spinner RPM would no longer be limited by switch speed, and the input limited by I=V/R.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 12, 2015, 07:33:31 PM
Let's look at the Daftman Bedini schematic: This looks complex, but two DPDT flop switches, one on each of the two coil leads can easily handle it. The start and end of each coil would wire to #3 and #4 of each switch. The four existing connections to #1 and # 2 of each switch. That leaves #5 and #6 on each switch. The outer #5 & #6 of those poles would wire directly to the positve and negative electrodes of the battery, and the inner #6 & #5  would simply wire straight across to each other.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 12, 2015, 08:12:01 PM
This looks like a pretty scary switch: The QPDT! We can Beardenize this into; "Quantum Positron Di-Variable Transitioner"! or, "The Electro-Magnetic Serial Bifliarizer Switch"!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 12, 2015, 09:20:23 PM
The 4PDT switch will cause the electrically magnetized serial bifilar coil to attract the bearingless neo sphere spinner, which is free to move, and solve the complex positioner problem! I believe a third winding would be able to deliver overunity output and charge the run battery looped back to source.

The other alternative would be to leave the third winding of the Trifilar uncoupled untill the "Lenz Propulsion" took effect, then direct the output to the charge battery. I believe the additional load would help increase the propulsion effect even more! It's easy just to wrap a third wire directly over the the outside of an existing bifilar for an output winding, and may even work better then winding three wires together side by side.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 12, 2015, 11:35:31 PM
I had to correct this. I'm sure it's alright now:

Here's a better wiring schematic for the 4pdt switch: Following this schematic, the start and end wires of the trigger coil would go to pins #9 & #10 respectivly, and the end and start of the run coil to #11 & #12.

#1, #2, #3 & #4 just connect as the Daftman's schematic shows.

That leaves #5, #6, #7 & #8. #8 can go directly to #12 because it already connects correctly to the positive pole of the run battery, #6 which goes to the emiter would need to connect to the negative pole of the run battery by a seperate wire. #7,  the end of the run coil, and #5 the start of the trigger would simply connect to each other to create the serial bifilar. Bridging the coils this way combines the magnetic fields. #13 & #14 are just the switch contacts.

Here's a good one from Amazon with a center off position, an important feature:

 
$4.50   + $5.95 shipping 
In Stock. Sold by Parts Express
 
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 13, 2015, 01:41:14 AM
Those switch pictures are too large, sorry. I had to correct the wiring pattern above, I'm sure it's correct now. Anyway, running the neo sphere on the concave side of a cosmetic mirror would help. Positioning a normal "Lenz Drag" output coil on the opposite side of the mirror would help control the rotor speed. You can shut the coil off all together with the 4pdt switch if it starts to run away, and get a drag inducing output coil in place wired to a load. You'll either be off the grid at that point or collecting a pay check from the power company!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 14, 2015, 10:10:08 PM
I got more information on the switch which is designed to handle both AC and DC. Together with the center off position:

"If you zoom in on the pic it says it on the side. Here it is anyway: 10A 250V AC 15A 125V AC Also works for low voltage DC which is what we use them for"!

The running approach would involve accelerating a 1" diameter neo-sphere to top speed with the Bedini circuit, then "Flopping the toggle" for hyper "Lenz Repulsion" over drive.

The ball can slip inside a 1 & 1/4" diameter PVC coupling after it gets started. This will protect from shattering.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 15, 2015, 02:52:19 AM
I think the "Spiral Bifilar Toroid Coil" Bedini would work better for this hybrid drive circuit because spinning a sphere inside the core of a toroid coil maximizes ball stability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biDJ_xLtrcI&feature=related

Wrapping this kind of coil's pretty easy. I call it the "Quick and Dirty" Rodin coil. Start out transfering  two strands of wire to a spindle stick. Make a few loops of wire to act as a core to start spiraling the wires around in the same direction as the core loops. End up where the wires start and give the four ends a twist. Voila!
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: thngr on January 15, 2015, 04:38:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC7u7-gTdPI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC7u7-gTdPI#t=267)[/font] when loaded you can not see it be cause it was not allowed you to do so :D we have trust photos as allways jln labs do.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 15, 2015, 06:34:21 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC7u7-gTdPI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC7u7-gTdPI#t=267)[/font] when loaded you can not see it be cause it was not allowed you to do so :D we have trust photos as allways jln labs do.

@thngr,

Awesome results; 1600 to 3200 RPM! I"m certain the rotor would speed up even more if it was better balanced. The 4PDT Bedini switch can cause a direct short of the power coil causing an "infinite capacitor" load effect simply by connecting #6 to #8. The "Shorting" effect alone on the spiral coil neo-sphere should send it ballistic! The 4PDT switch looks like the best way so far to combine and short the two seperated Bedini bifilar power and trigger coils.
Title: Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
Post by: synchro1 on January 16, 2015, 12:28:18 AM
Lidmotor spins a 1" neo-sphere with a protective sleeve placed over the ball at 2:25 in the video. Please follow this very simple and easy kind of important safety precaution. Use a PVC coupling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSGnZPZpR_I

I think a direct coil short will slow the spinner down, but be prepared for a speed up if you're wired directly to the battery through a 4PDT switch as shown!