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Author Topic: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.  (Read 197111 times)

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #165 on: December 25, 2014, 04:53:15 AM »
Who ever said "Lenz's Law" is being delayed?

But the topic is: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and LENZ DELAY.....right?

What is the difference of what Lenz's law stipulates and Lenz delay?  If you are not delaying what Lenz is referring to then what is being delayed then?

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #166 on: December 25, 2014, 05:06:28 AM »
But the topic is: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and LENZ DELAY.....right?

What is the difference of what Lenz's law stipulates and Lenz delay?  If you are not delaying what Lenz is referring to then what is being delayed then?

Bill

@Bill,

Here's the important fact: kEhYo gets DLE in his coil shorting video at a frequency of 7200. that's six magnets and a rotor speed of 1200 R.P.M. Gotoluc's CMF is 70k at 35k R.P.M. wth no backing magnets on his ferrite output coil core. That's nearly thirty times the rotor speed to benifit from the effect. The vast reduction in threshold speed is caused by the backing magnets. This only effects the viscosity in the gap between the rotor and the coil and has nothing to do with "Lenz", "Faraday", "Maxwell",  "Lorentz", or "Albert Einstien".

The "Delay" is caused merely by this viscosity barrier and the time it takes for the reflected coil field to reach the rotor magnet. There's only one cause for DLE, not multiple causes!





Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #167 on: December 25, 2014, 05:36:21 AM »
@Bill,

Here's the important fact: kEhYo gets DLE in his coil shorting video at a frequency of 7200. that's six magnets and a rotor speed of 1200 R.P.M. Gotoluc's CMF is 70k at 35k R.P.M. wth no backing magnets on his ferrite output coil core. That's nearly thirty times the rotor speed to benifit from the effect. The vast reduction in threshold speed is caused by the backing magnets. This only effects the viscosity in the gap between the rotor and the coil and has nothing to do with "Lenz", "Faraday", "Maxwell",  "Lorentz", or "Albert Einstien".

The "Delay" is caused merely by this viscosity barrier and the time it takes for the reflected coil field to reach the rotor magnet. There's only one cause for DLE, not multiple causes!

OK, thank you for your explanation.  I am not sure if it is correct or not as now you are over my head.  I do appreciate your answering my questions though.

Thanks,

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #167 on: December 25, 2014, 05:36:21 AM »
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Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #168 on: December 25, 2014, 06:52:42 AM »
Hi folks, Hi synchro, don't remember where i got this file from, could have been here, though it is worth reposting.
The document seems to describe, what you are saying.
I will be trying to emulate this behavior in my magnet eddy current heater as well.
It uses a belt and pulley setup, so i can crank up the rpm's and try different aluminum pieces and distances to try and get ahead of the coils reflection or in my case, the aluminums locally induced field.
peace love light

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #169 on: December 25, 2014, 08:09:05 AM »
But the topic is: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and LENZ DELAY.....right?

What is the difference of what Lenz's law stipulates and Lenz delay?  If you are not delaying what Lenz is referring to then what is being delayed then?

Bill
Bill, what Synchro1 describes is in no way a delay in effects described by Lenz' Law. Synchro1 describes observations where induced EMF from Faraday induction or torque from Lorentz forces is out of phase with an inducing magnetic field.  The reasons for those observations and their net meaning have been described.  Synchro1 rejects those descriptions but has failed to refute them.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #169 on: December 25, 2014, 08:09:05 AM »
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Offline NoBull

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #170 on: December 25, 2014, 01:38:05 PM »
Who ever said "Lenz's Law" is being delayed?
The topic of this thread.
You can achieve a delay in the response of a ferromagnetic core to the time-varying flux but no delay in the response of a coil to the same.

The "Delay" is caused merely by this viscosity barrier ...
If you'd call it a "Core Delay" you'd be technically correct, but "Lenz's law Delay" or "Lenz Delay" or "Delayed Lenz Effect (DLE)" are misnomers.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #171 on: December 25, 2014, 05:32:48 PM »
The topic of this thread.
You can achieve a delay in the response of a ferromagnetic core to the time-varying flux but no delay in the response of a coil to the same.
If you'd call it a "Core Delay" you'd be technically correct, but "Lenz's law Delay" or "Lenz Delay" or "Delayed Lenz Effect (DLE)" are misnomers.

@NoBull,

I'm in complete agreement with you!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #171 on: December 25, 2014, 05:32:48 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #172 on: December 25, 2014, 05:50:10 PM »
Bill, what Synchro1 describes is in no way a delay in effects described by Lenz' Law. Synchro1 describes observations where induced EMF from Faraday induction or torque from Lorentz forces is out of phase with an inducing magnetic field.  The reasons for those observations and their net meaning have been described.  Synchro1 rejects those descriptions but has failed to refute them.

@MarkE,

The issue I presented here involves the drop in "Critical Mínimum Frequency" or CMF  for "Delayed Lenz Effect" or DLE from attaching magnets to the ferrite cores of shorted output coils. You pretend you explained this effect somewhere. Can you describe simply and in plain english what the hell you're talking about?

Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #173 on: December 25, 2014, 05:57:56 PM »
Hi folks, Hi synchro, don't remember where i got this file from, could have been here, though it is worth reposting.
The document seems to describe, what you are saying.
I will be trying to emulate this behavior in my magnet eddy current heater as well.
It uses a belt and pulley setup, so i can crank up the rpm's and try different aluminum pieces and distances to try and get ahead of the coils reflection or in my case, the aluminums locally induced field.
peace love light

Very interestiing! Good luck on your experiment.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #173 on: December 25, 2014, 05:57:56 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #174 on: December 25, 2014, 06:08:10 PM »
OK, thank you for your explanation.  I am not sure if it is correct or not as now you are over my head.  I do appreciate your answering my questions though.

Thanks,

Bill

@Bill,

JLN demonstrated how DLE is caused by a phase lag in the core material. There are no additional causes. I dreamed up a few doozys myself. People fall in love with their own ideas. I continue to systematically apply JLN'S proof to all cases. This solves all the problems.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #175 on: December 25, 2014, 06:24:48 PM »
@MarkE,

The issue I presented here involves the drop in "Critical Mínimum Frequency" or CMF  for "Delayed Lenz Effect" or DLE from attaching magnets to the ferrite cores of shorted output coils. You pretend you explained this effect somewhere. Can you describe simply and in plain english what the hell you're talking about?
Synchro1, I have explained the physics several times already:   Lorentz force from an electromagnet can be delayed by either or both:  eddy currents that oppose the field formed by a time varying current, and magnetization of a pole piece due to magnetic viscosity in the pole piece material.  Similarly, observable BEMF can be delayed by each of those effects alone or in combination. 

As you now acknowledge that "Delayed Lenz Effect" is a misnomer, kindly stop using that incorrect and misleading term. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #175 on: December 25, 2014, 06:24:48 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #176 on: December 25, 2014, 08:29:57 PM »
Synchro1, I have explained the physics several times already:   Lorentz force from an electromagnet can be delayed by either or both:  eddy currents that oppose the field formed by a time varying current, and magnetization of a pole piece due to magnetic viscosity in the pole piece material.  Similarly, observable BEMF can be delayed by each of those effects alone or in combination. 

As you now acknowledge that "Delayed Lenz Effect" is a misnomer, kindly stop using that incorrect and misleading term.

@MarkE,

What you wrote above is completely incomprehensible. You may think you're making sense, but I can assure you, MarkE, that your communication skills are extremely poor. You need a basic course in English composition. There's a chance you may understand what you are trying to say, but there's a huge failure on your part to put your thoughts into understandable language.       

Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #177 on: December 26, 2014, 01:23:32 AM »
@MarkE,

A rotor magnet passes a ferrite core and the magnetic field from the passng magnet transits from point A to point B through the core. What happens to the timee interval if we increase the magnetizem in the core? Why would anyone want to bypass all the conventional theories and jump to the Lorentz force to help solve this simple problem?

Offline tinman

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #178 on: December 26, 2014, 01:44:27 AM »
Synchro1, I have explained the physics several times already:   Lorentz force from an electromagnet can be delayed by either or both:  eddy currents that oppose the field formed by a time varying current, and magnetization of a pole piece due to magnetic viscosity in the pole piece material.  Similarly, observable BEMF can be delayed by each of those effects alone or in combination. 

As you now acknowledge that "Delayed Lenz Effect" is a misnomer, kindly stop using that incorrect and misleading term.
So you are saying that the lenz force that act's against the rotor magnet can indeed be delayed.
It is my understanding that that is what is being ment by! delayed lenz effect!-the apposing magnetic field acting against that of the magnetic field on the rotor is delayed until such time that it pushes the PM away from the coil in an asisting direction.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #179 on: December 26, 2014, 01:59:47 AM »
Lets look at a simple Mag Amp:


"To begin, I would like to first show a simple experiment that demonstrates how saturating a magnetic core can lower inductance and allow more AC current to flow through a lamp. The lamp glows brighter when the magnets are near the transformer. The magnetic field saturates the core, lowering the inductive reactance in series with the lamp".



 

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