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Author Topic: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.  (Read 191913 times)

Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #60 on: December 01, 2014, 01:51:10 AM »
The magnetite core needs a longer interval to totally demagnetize. The de-escalating crescendo is still returning output power past the area you colored in red.

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Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #61 on: December 01, 2014, 01:58:27 AM »
"I would wire up transistors in order to close down the timing variability and problems with contact bounce"

Transistors are notoriously sluggish and inefficient compared to mechanical contacts. The separation of the mechanical contact points generates a very clean square wave compared to a gummy transistor.
 
 

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #62 on: December 01, 2014, 04:43:27 AM »

Says you!
Synchro1 if you want help designing an experiment that will tell you the truth, then I am willing to do that.  If you just want a food fight, then I will defer.

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #62 on: December 01, 2014, 04:43:27 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #63 on: December 01, 2014, 04:45:11 AM »
The magnetite core needs a longer interval to totally demagnetize. The de-escalating crescendo is still returning output power past the area you colored in red.
And you establish that how?  Where are measurements that support your idea?

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #64 on: December 01, 2014, 04:47:58 AM »
"I would wire up transistors in order to close down the timing variability and problems with contact bounce"

Transistors are notoriously sluggish and inefficient compared to mechanical contacts. The separation of the mechanical contact points generates a very clean square wave compared to a gummy transistor.
Mechanical contacts bounce for up to multiple milliseconds and an also arc for up to many milliseconds.  A well designed transistor power switch operating at these levels can easily turn on and off in a tenth of a microsecond.  In other words a well designed transistor switch will make a stable transition thousands of times faster than mechanical contacts.

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #64 on: December 01, 2014, 04:47:58 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #65 on: December 01, 2014, 10:38:46 AM »
And yet... a good fast risetime pulse generator from last century uses a mercury-wetted reed switch to generate the nanosecond-risetime pulses.
For example the Tektronix Type 109, with a risetime of 250 picoseconds, using just such a switch:

http://www.ivorcatt.co.uk/x212.pdf

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #66 on: December 01, 2014, 10:59:50 AM »
And yet... a good fast risetime pulse generator from last century uses a mercury-wetted reed switch to generate the nanosecond-risetime pulses.
For example the Tektronix Type 109, with a risetime of 250 picoseconds, using just such a switch:

http://www.ivorcatt.co.uk/x212.pdf
Mercury-wetted contacts are in a completely different class than ordinary reeds.  Fifty years ago when the 109 was designed power MOSFETs did not exist.  The memory in your desktop or laptop computer has much faster rise and fall times:  ~70ps - 100ps than the 109's 250ps.  Fast current generation TDR's offer pulse rise times under 10ps.

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #66 on: December 01, 2014, 10:59:50 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #67 on: December 01, 2014, 11:10:56 AM »
Yep, and those old mercury-wetted reed switches are costly too, if you can find them. I think the for the last 109 I repaired, the NOS reed switch cost something over 100 dollars.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #68 on: December 01, 2014, 05:31:02 PM »
The trouble there is that the transit velocity is constant (let's not get picky about humidity and air pressure over time) and the distance is constant leading to a constant delay between any event and the observer.  There is not any distance you can locate the observer where the receive free energy due to their position.

Here's a great video on the Wesley Gary effect proving you wrong:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACykTfXspfM&index=7&list=FL3v-1RhhS50L5H2_FYFFBqQ
 
The Reed Relay comes in multiple designs, some with slider points and springs. The industrial current reversing variety is designed to very high tolerance. The transistor requires a power source and eats juice.

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #68 on: December 01, 2014, 05:31:02 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #69 on: December 01, 2014, 06:04:30 PM »
A tiny relay coil at the back of the magnet stack would allow for re-positioning to the neutral zone without physically moving the coil. Reducing the power to the tiny backing coil would have the same effect as moving the entire coil away from the rotor. Fine tuning can be accomplished this way for "Lenz Propulsion" output. Mark maintains this is a zero sum approach. My experiments prove there's net gain.

Four magnet core GAP coils and a two pole rotor would deliver the same power as well as extend the demagnetization interval as kEhYo's version.
 

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #70 on: December 01, 2014, 06:21:24 PM »

Here's a great video on the Wesley Gary effect proving you wrong:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACykTfXspfM&index=7&list=FL3v-1RhhS50L5H2_FYFFBqQ
 
The Reed Relay comes in multiple designs, some with slider points and springs. The industrial current reversing variety is designed to very high tolerance. The transistor requires a power source and eats juice.
Just what is it in that video that you think refutes what I have been saying?  The video does not measure induction.  It makes no direct measure of force or torque.

All switching mechanisms use power.  Some sap it mechanically, some sap it electrically, some do a bit of both.  Mechanical contacts have the problems and limitations that I have explained.  If you can live with those limitations then great.  If they represent a problem then use a different method that does not have those problems and limitations.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #70 on: December 01, 2014, 06:21:24 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #71 on: December 01, 2014, 06:24:53 PM »
A tiny relay coil at the back of the magnet stack would allow for re-positioning to the neutral zone without physically moving the coil. Reducing the power to the tiny backing coil would have the same effect as moving the entire coil away from the rotor. Fine tuning can be accomplished this way for "Lenz Propulsion" output. Mark maintains this is a zero sum approach. My experiments prove there's net gain.

Four magnet core GAP coils and a two pole rotor would deliver the same power as well as extend the demagnetization interval as kEhYo's version.
If you are convinced that you can "delay Lenz" in such a way as to gain energy then:  Diagram up your experiment set-up, describe how you collect data, describe your null experiments, and publish your test data.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #72 on: December 01, 2014, 08:54:14 PM »
Just what is it in that video that you think refutes what I have been saying?  The video does not measure induction.  It makes no direct measure of force or torque.

All switching mechanisms use power.  Some sap it mechanically, some sap it electrically, some do a bit of both.  Mechanical contacts have the problems and limitations that I have explained.  If you can live with those limitations then great.  If they represent a problem then use a different method that does not have those problems and limitations.

"MarkE,
 
The video shows merely an unfinished portion of the entire Wesly Gary device. The original produced perpetual motion that was well documented at the time by science observers and journalists. The video shows basicly two horseshoe magnets facing one another in counter polaity so they are suspended by mutual attraction. One magnet is attached to a hinge. The metal shield is raised between these two horsehoe magnets inside the neutral zone where no attraction to either horsehoe magnet is in effect. This disengages the hinged magnet and it falls away. The original used the force of the descending shield to reraise the hinged magnet.
 
The point is, the magnet rotor is blind to the magnet core coil inside the neutral zone, an area of perhaps one sixteenth of an inch in width. However, the coil windings are effected by rotor induction. The high magnetic viscosity of the magnet backed core causes a Delay in the coils normal pole formation and produces instead a propulsion.
 
The elegance of the current GAP motor design couples the power and output in one coil eliminating the need for an auxilliary power source such as a D.C. motor which would need to be declutched to allow free wheeling of the rotor.
 
The Flynn Parallel path technology may help reduce the input to the Neutral Zone electromagnetic positioner coil at the back of the magnet stack.
 
Let me add MarkE that I appreciate your help.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #73 on: December 01, 2014, 10:27:25 PM »
More rotor magnets will help lower the "Lenz Delay" threshold RPM and less magnets will increase the demagnetization interval. Consider this; Everyone has seen demonstrations of rotor speed up under load. Once the multi maget rotor is spinning fast enough, if we pull the DPDT Reed Relay back away from the rotor in the normally closed position open to the storage capacitor, and adjust the tiny positioner coil field strenght on the back of the core magnets to the Neutral Zone and experience rotor speed up, how can it not be a self runner at that point? Think about it. I've been perversly ridiculed as a cumpulsive lier and psychotic, but I moved the rotor in the sphere spinner spiral away from the power coil. How can the 'Lenz Propulsion" overcome the drag of a prime mover like a DC motor or anything. It's not difficult to achieve rotor speed up, if it's a free wheeling rotor how can it not be powering itself if the rotor's accelerating with zero input?

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #74 on: December 02, 2014, 12:20:41 AM »

"MarkE,
 
The video shows merely an unfinished portion of the entire Wesly Gary device. The original produced perpetual motion that was well documented at the time by science observers and journalists. The video shows basicly two horseshoe magnets facing one another in counter polaity so they are suspended by mutual attraction. One magnet is attached to a hinge. The metal shield is raised between these two horsehoe magnets inside the neutral zone where no attraction to either horsehoe magnet is in effect. This disengages the hinged magnet and it falls away. The original used the force of the descending shield to reraise the hinged magnet.
 
The point is, the magnet rotor is blind to the magnet core coil inside the neutral zone, an area of perhaps one sixteenth of an inch in width. However, the coil windings are effected by rotor induction. The high magnetic viscosity of the magnet backed core causes a Delay in the coils normal pole formation and produces instead a propulsion.
 
The elegance of the current GAP motor design couples the power and output in one coil eliminating the need for an auxilliary power source such as a D.C. motor which would need to be declutched to allow free wheeling of the rotor.
 
The Flynn Parallel path technology may help reduce the input to the Neutral Zone electromagnetic positioner coil at the back of the magnet stack.
 
Let me add MarkE that I appreciate your help.
I hope that you understand that pointing to one machine as an example of something and then saying that it is a different machine that has the desired behavior doesn't really provide evidence.  The permeable material, IE pole shoe goes up and down and with it the coupling between the left and right side magnets to the pole shoe increase and decreases and we see the right piece pivot.  Nothing about that looks unexpected to me.  If the claim is that the conductivity or magnetic viscosity of material used causes energy to be stored as opposed to dissipated the necessary measurements to show such a thing are missing.

The premise that you hypothesize as I understand it is that not only is energy stored without loss, but that there is an energy gain realized by the mechanism you are calling "Lenz delay".  If that understanding is wrong then please clarify.  My contention is that sufficiently accurate measurements will always show that not only does such a gain not occur but that in each case energy is dissipated.

 

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