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Author Topic: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.  (Read 200329 times)

Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #150 on: December 23, 2014, 04:39:08 PM »
On the practical side, I wanted to ask Gotoluc to attach a diametric magnet to the back of the ferrite output coil core to measure the effect it had on the output. The thread is currently locked.

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Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #151 on: December 23, 2014, 11:22:42 PM »
@Quote fom JLN:


"In the case of the generators, the increase of the turn rate is produced by the DLE when the devices are loaded above a critical minimum frequency. Below the critical minimum frequency the DLE coil will produce deceleration as per any conventional Lenz generator coil. Coil frequency dictates coil impedance which is a critical factor in producing generator DLE and on-load system acceleration".

Doug Konzen's 8 magnet rotor is traveling at 1405 RPM. 8 X 1405 = 11240 Hertz. He gets acceleration at that rate with a shorted magnet backed ferrite core generator coil:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaaEdGPO7C8

Gotoluc's most recent DLE experriment used a diametric rotor and a Dremel prime mover traveling at 35,000 R.P.M. 2 X 35,000 = 70,000 Hertz.

Kozen's CMF in Hertz, is at least 6 times lower then Gotoluc's. How much lower would the addition of magnets to Luc's ferrite core make his CMF drop?

How does increasing the magnetic viscosity in the ferrite core effect the magnetic phase lag of the "Lenz Effect" and lower the "critical mínimum frequency"?
 

Offline dieter

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #152 on: December 24, 2014, 12:20:58 AM »
It's hard to say what's going on there in Konzens' motor. It could be the basic setup with those PM stacks is causing a drag due to friction and or costy mass de- and accelleration and then the shortened coil just reduces or neutralizes that drag somehow.


It could also be that the shortened coil shows exactly that, DLE. As I described earlier, a coil needs a certain time to get its internal equilibrium (charge seperation evenly distributed) and that may be the frequency mentioned by JLN. The duration of the BEMF spike may be an indicator for the req. frequency.


Peace
 

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #152 on: December 24, 2014, 12:20:58 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #153 on: December 24, 2014, 04:58:21 AM »
This scope shot reveals a "magnet wave". Notice how the peaks match TDC of both rotor poles. This is at 30mm down a soft iron core. How would magnets placed at the end of the core away from the rotor effect the distance of the "TDC Wave Peak Conjunction" from the rotor?

There's a time delay for the magnetizem from the rotor to reach the coil. How much time would it take or the "Lenz Field" from the coil to reflect back to the rotor? Would a difference in field strength effect the time delay? Does magnetizem have a constant velocity like light and electricity? The answer is yes!

Offline dieter

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #154 on: December 24, 2014, 06:31:44 AM »
Officially it's the speed of light, but wouldn't that be weird if the speed is constant, regardless of the medium? All the domains that need to be kicked in iron, compared to rather empty space... Doesn't the speed of sound also vary, depending on the medium?
Peace


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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #154 on: December 24, 2014, 06:31:44 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #155 on: December 24, 2014, 08:09:18 AM »
Water is not high pressure steam. Magnetizem and electricity are seperate forces like liquid and gas are seperate states of matter. Magnetisem has no effect on current in a wire. Magnetiizem needs a magnetic inductor to travel through like solid iron or steel just like electricity needs an electrical inductor. Copper's a good conductor of electricity but a poor conductor of magnetisem. The word electromagnetizem is practically meaningless on it's own without a reference to Ampere turns. Ampere turns of wire generate a magnetic field that is indistinguishable from a permanent magnet field. Permanent magnet fields are not  dependent on electricity. This is proof that magnetisem is not electricity as you falsely imply. Both you and Milehigh work very hard to confuse people about the distinct and totally seperate nature of these two individual forces. I threatened to ignore your comments because you persist in acting stupidly about this basic fact.

DLE only relates to the passage of magnetizem through a magnetic inductor and has nothing to do with the passage of electricity through an electrical conductor. stop confusing these differences or I will stop responding to your comments. Both you and Milehigh act like delinquent children and I'm sick of it.
Synchro1 you are asserting statements that are "worse than wrong".   

Steam at any pressure is still water.  True steam is water in the vapor state.

Magnetizem (sic) and electricity are not forces.  They are manifestations of: electric charge, distance, and time.

"Magnetisem (sic) has no effect on current in a wire." could not be more wrong.  Current anywhere has an associated magnetic field. Even at DC current and a static magnetic field causes the Hall Effect.

Highly permeable materials such as you mentioned are very convenient for concentrating magnetic flux.  At medium and high frequencies magnetic flux concentrates between electrical conductors even if the materials have a relative permeability of 1.0 or very close to 1.0 such as air does.  There are objects all around your house that rely on that fact.  There are any number of people who have ignored that fact and come to absolutely wrong conclusions concerning things they measure with electronic instruments.  Steven Jones false claims of 8X overunity from a Joule Thief circuit is a notable example.

Again, electricity and magnetism are both manifestations of: electric charge, distance, and time.  As TK would say: "They are one thing."

Your statement:  "DLE only relates to the passage of magnetizem through a magnetic inductor and has nothing to do with the passage of electricity through an electrical conductor." is utter and total nonsense.  Anywhere charge moves no matter how the path is arranged, there is inductance.  There are no exceptions.  Some arrangements can yield relatively low apparent inductance, such as Aryton Perry wound resistors.  As long as there is distance and time, any current experiences inductive effects. 

I suggest that you avail yourself to any of the many high quality tutorials that are available online.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #156 on: December 24, 2014, 08:12:59 AM »
Officially it's the speed of light, but wouldn't that be weird if the speed is constant, regardless of the medium? All the domains that need to be kicked in iron, compared to rather empty space... Doesn't the speed of sound also vary, depending on the medium?
Peace
But we know that the speed with which electromagnetic waves propagate varies with the medium.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #156 on: December 24, 2014, 08:12:59 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #157 on: December 24, 2014, 05:25:20 PM »
@MarkE,

I never said anything that stupid about the same speed of magnetizem through different materials. Magnetizem and electricityy are not viewed as the same thing for the purpose of this thread. You're acting wickedly on both these falsehoods. You make yourself sound real Smart when you're just full of shit. Tinselkoala's full of shit too!

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #158 on: December 24, 2014, 05:35:04 PM »
@MarkE,

I never said anything that stupid about the same speed of magnetizem through different materials. Magnetizem and electricityy are not the same thing. You're acting wickedly on both these falsehoods. You make yourself sound real Smart when you're just full of shit. Tinselkoala's full of shit too!
Synchro1 you are really making quite the fool of yourself.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #158 on: December 24, 2014, 05:35:04 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #159 on: December 24, 2014, 05:46:08 PM »
Synchro1 you are really making quite the fool of yourself.

Look, you assholes want act to act like Albert Einstien. I don't need a "Special Theory of Relativity" to explain "Phase Lag" in a magnet core. All that garbage on Electromagnetizem is worthless for the simple understanding needed to get this effect on a test bench. You over complexify to derail any practical progress.....

Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #160 on: December 24, 2014, 06:34:16 PM »
There's a build under way here on this thread. We're looking at a monople VCR bearing rotor with 6 or 8 N pole facing out magnets. This should be enough to reach the "Critical Mínimum Frequency" of 11K Konzen achieves at 1400 R.P.M.

Two magnet backed coils with high perm ferrite cores and coils of thin wire and many turns, mounted on adjustable screws would be sufficient for all the tests. The self acceleration by "Shorted Coil" can be controlled by "Lenz Drag" from the second. This version would look identical to kEhYo's and be powered as a GAP.

It's enough to understand how the backing magnets increase "Magnetic Viscosity" in the ferrite core, and cause "Phase Lag" to create DLE at low CMF. We don't need an upper level course on James Clerk Maxwell to build and experiment with this kind of generator. Let's take one more look at it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxrJoGZy1to

All it needs is the tracks and adjustor screws, and a few simple modifications in the circuitry.

One last thing; Take a look at kEhYo's "Coil Shorting Video":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UlwdLXO3AI
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 10:58:42 PM by synchro1 »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #160 on: December 24, 2014, 06:34:16 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #161 on: December 25, 2014, 01:18:25 AM »
Look, you assholes want act to act like Albert Einstien. I don't need a "Special Theory of Relativity" to explain "Phase Lag" in a magnet core. All that garbage on Electromagnetizem is worthless for the simple understanding needed to get this effect on a test bench. You over complexify to derail any practical progress.....
Synchro1 hurling expletives doesn't help your case.  You really ought to study the diagram that I've posted a couple of times now.  Even if you are unwilling to do that, you ought to figure out what you would have to do to really tell whether or not you are getting the free energy that you hope for in your experiments.

Offline NoBull

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #162 on: December 25, 2014, 02:06:43 AM »
The self acceleration by "Shorted Coil" can be controlled by "Lenz Drag" from the second. This version would look identical to kEhYo's and be powered as a GAP.

It's enough to understand how the backing magnets increase "Magnetic Viscosity" in the ferrite core, and cause "Phase Lag" to create DLE at low CMF.
Yes, ferromagnetic and ferrimagnetic cores do not respond instantaneously to varying magnetic flux.  This is one of the reasons why their upper frequency limit is around 1GHz. 
Yes, there is a delay in the response of these cores and a phase lag like in JLN's VRM experiment but that does not mean that the Lenz's law is delayed by that.

Also, Lenz's law is not the cause of any mechanical drag - the electrical resistance is.
In an ideal coil without resistance there is no mechanical drag to an approaching and departing magnet, despite that current is still induced in such coil in full accordance with the Lenz's law. 
In SC coils the integral of abs(force) over distance is exactly the same during the approach as during the departure of the moving magnet (to and from infinity), so there is no net gain nor loss (drag) of mechanical energy over the full cycle. 

In non-ideal systems the resistance of the coil and load causes the drag (unequal work during the approach vs. the departure).

Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #163 on: December 25, 2014, 03:50:32 AM »
Synchro1 hurling expletives doesn't help your case.  You really ought to study the diagram that I've posted a couple of times now.  Even if you are unwilling to do that, you ought to figure out what you would have to do to really tell whether or not you are getting the free energy that you hope for in your experiments.

@MarkE,

"Accelerate an electric field, and you produce an orthogonal magnetic field. And vice versa. But the forces themselves are separate. You can easily produce a static electric field without magnetism (and vice versa)".

You're looking at two sides of a coin! Stop acting like some kind of know it all with your shallow takes on everything.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet coil cores, demagnetization power and Lenz delay.
« Reply #164 on: December 25, 2014, 04:44:34 AM »
Yes, ferromagnetic and ferrimagnetic cores do not respond instantaneously to varying magnetic flux.  This is one of the reasons why their upper frequency limit is around 1GHz. 
Yes, there is a delay in the response of these cores and a phase lag like in JLN's VRM experiment but that does not mean that the Lenz's law is delayed by that.

Also, Lenz's law is not the cause of any mechanical drag - the electrical resistance is.
In an ideal coil without resistance there is no mechanical drag to an approaching and departing magnet, despite that current is still induced in such coil in full accordance with the Lenz's law. 
In SC coils the integral of abs(force) over distance is exactly the same during the approach as during the departure of the moving magnet (to and from infinity), so there is no net gain nor loss (drag) of mechanical energy over the full cycle. 

In non-ideal systems the resistance of the coil and load causes the drag (unequal work during the approach vs. the departure).

Who ever said "Lenz's Law" is being delayed?

 

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