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Author Topic: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel  (Read 31760 times)

Offline Rafael Ti

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2013, 10:50:40 AM »
haven't figured out how it works, though keep checking the design to see if they somehow transferred the weight from the vertical beams to a longer horizontal beam to increase leverage when the weight is disconnected from the roberval vertical beam.
 tried variations of the idea myself, though no gain as it took the same amount of work to lift the weight back from the longer lever onto the vertical beam.
Our Brazilian friends probably use the idea of Roberval balance in conjunction with classic weight scale. I have also some ideas about how to bring weights back to initial position. One of them is to let the system work like pendulum... in right time you switch system from Roberval to classic and then back.
By now I am in stage of making rotational Roberval using chains and chain wheels. Will see what can I do with it...
All the best Mr roberval

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2013, 10:50:40 AM »

Offline roberval

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2013, 01:14:44 PM »
By now I am in stage of making rotational Roberval using chains and chain wheels. Will see what can I do with it...
All the best Mr roberval

Rafael,
 do you mean making a similar system to the roberval balance by using a chain and sprocket system, with the center sprocket being grounded ?
Played around with these as well, even tried a pendulum on the center sprocket. 
 it's an easier build compared to building a roberval balance.

Offline Rafael Ti

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2013, 09:44:56 AM »
Yes, exactly! Something like this:

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2013, 09:44:56 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2013, 10:45:10 AM »
Yes, exactly! Something like this:
I assume the horizontal lines are the weights that is overbalancing?
If so, you must remember that these weights are rotating in the opposite way relative to the rotation of the moving sprockets. This rotation is required to force the horizontal weights to stay horizontal, pointing to the right. That will require the exact same amount of energy as the energy "gained" by the overbalance. The horizontal weights want to rotate counter clockwise, but the overbalance want to rotate clockwise. Force equals counterforce.


Therfor such wheels cannot work. Fairly simple math will prove this also.


Vidar

Offline Rafael Ti

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2013, 12:08:34 PM »
@Vidar
The rotary Roberval is only a base for more sophisticated system. Of course the Roberval balance alone is not a gravity wheel. It needs something else to work as such a wheel. This is what Mr roberval - the member of this forum and others are thinking about. Think for example how easy is to move the weights on horizontal beam.. how easy is to switch the system from Roberval to a classic scale and then back again.

"Therefor such wheels cannot work..."

So let's take it as a hobby. Are you happy?  ;) People waste their time doing many stupid things...

All the best

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2013, 12:08:34 PM »
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Offline roberval

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2013, 04:34:54 PM »
Agreed,
 my current build does not transfer weight from the roberval to classic scale, it's a little more complicated as the system works in 3 dimensions.
 
 the way i'm using the roberval balance linkage is not as a balance of weights, it's being used to apply force, the 3D geometry in the design allows the mechanism to create the overbalance.
most of the system is symmetrical, to run in the opposite direction e.g. "CW" the wheel would only need to be turned 180 degrees CW which sets up the overbalance system to run the wheel CW.
 unfortunately the design can't use the simple chain sprocket system, which is a pain to build.

Offline Rafael Ti

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2013, 01:20:36 PM »
Mr roberval
Let me post here a bit improved version of Bessler No 108 water wheel...
Thank you.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2013, 01:20:36 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2013, 02:33:53 PM »
Mr roberval
Let me post here a bit improved version of Bessler No 108 water wheel...
Thank you.
Since you already are focusing on buoyant wheels, maybe you also could look into a similar wheel in air where there is practically no pressure difference between bottom and top. Say you fill the pockets with Helium instead, and let the wheel be placed in air... just for couriosity. But ofcourse the Helium will cause pressure difference inside the pockets...

Edit. image added:
Would it be better for you if you some how counterweight the metal plates so there will be symmetry in the weight balance due to the different locations where the metal plates are on each side?
Because I will guess that the metal plates will displace as much air as the weight allows, and if the metal plates are more under the hub than balanced in the same height as the hub, the buoyancy effect will be cancelled out. If you use a counter weight that is displacing as much water as the weight of the plate, this difference might be eliminated ( ??? ).


I mean; The center of metal plate mass is under the hub, while the center of buoyancy is as much above the hub. With the extra counter "weights" this might balance the weight so the buoyant effect actually turns the wheel around...(I doubt, but it would be nice to analyze it)


Vidar

Offline Low-Q

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2013, 08:35:30 PM »
Did this thread die? Or did you guys go into the think box?


Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2013, 08:35:30 PM »
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Offline Rafael Ti

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2013, 12:05:34 PM »
Would it be better for you if you some how counterweight the metal plates so there will be symmetry in the weight balance due to the different locations where the metal plates are on each side?
We were taught that these kind of "overbalanced wheels" with folded arms don't work and are always in balance... so if you remove the wheel from the water it should stay in perfect balance. (the same if you pump the air of the system letting it stay immersed) When you put it back to the water it should start to rotate due to presence of air in the system.
What is strange is that the modern science DO NOT apparently APPLY the law of conservation energy to the force/energy of gravity.
I think this is just excuse for their lack of abilities in field of gravity machines or... perhaps something way different.

Offline Low-Q

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2013, 08:54:47 PM »
We were taught that these kind of "overbalanced wheels" with folded arms don't work and are always in balance... so if you remove the wheel from the water it should stay in perfect balance. (the same if you pump the air of the system letting it stay immersed) When you put it back to the water it should start to rotate due to presence of air in the system.
What is strange is that the modern science DO NOT apparently APPLY the law of conservation energy to the force/energy of gravity.
I think this is just excuse for their lack of abilities in field of gravity machines or... perhaps something way different.
Another hypothesis is that most free energy dreamers does not know how to analyze such wheels without actually building them. I have found myself almost sick and dizzy several times because I have thought that I finally have designed a working gravity/buoyancy machine. When I sit down, and calm down, analyze the forces, pressures, torques, etc. involved in the system, I allways get the same result - zero output.


However, I have learned to analyze things closer before I hope too much, or claim that something works before I have actually built it.


In this particular case, with the buoyant counterweight, I must analyze before I can calim any proof - wether it works or not. No hopes yet.


Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2013, 08:54:47 PM »
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Offline Rafael Ti

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2013, 12:45:27 PM »
An interesting concept from China I think...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2imzzWOUZQ

Offline wings

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2014, 11:02:36 AM »
http://www.gaia-energy.org/es-ist-soweit-mach-dich-energieautark/



In the video we show the reduced height in the visual model to illustrate the working principle. The mechanically assisted natural buoyancy of air-filled containers is the core of this technology. The movement is converted by a generator into electrical energy. The technology is low-maintenance and durable due to its construction. She does not need any chemical substances or fossil fuels.


Facts about plant


power:
Delivery: about 5-7 kilowatts per hour
Recording time: about 1.5 kilowatts per hour
Voltage: 24 V DC voltage (low voltage), commercially available inverter can convert it to AC power
Daily output of about 100 kWh, a possible annual output of about 36,500 kWh of electrical energy in to integrated 365 operation results from the fact
The actual control with what is needed, so depending on your daily needs for electrical energy
benefits:
Reduce the need for external power to a minimum
Support your existing heating with a strong immersion heater together with buffer and permanently save thousands of euros for fossil fuels
Operate a healthy infrared heating independent of energy providers with lowest cost of ownership
Create your own electricity for air-conditions and other electrical consumers
I live with enough electrical energy in remote regions or without network connection
The equipment is emission-free and benötiget only a minimum of maintenance
Be a pioneer in the introduction of energy-generating technologies in the private sector for better quality of life through greater independence
cost:
unique about € 12,000.00 € plus VAT. (the calculated costs are still subject to a variation of about 15%). The costs include the complete material for the construction of the plant. Batteries, inverters us any other accessories are not included.
monthly operating costs about 15.00 Euros (maximum once a year are mechanical components to check, replaced as necessary.)
Required space:
Base of the plant: 0,5 m x 0,5 m
Height about 5 m
construction:
fully or partially in the ground
free-standing or on an existing wall outside or inside in the air
partial or complete construction of individually feasible in height or depth
Audible noise:
The noise is limited to a compressor that can operate almost silently outward depending on placement and insulation.
Temporal implementation for small batch:
1-2 months after construction of the demonstration plant by the club GAIA
Provided by customer:
Installation, assembly and commissioning
Depending on the application and installation method occasionally even individual investments for mounts, inverters, charge controllers and batteries may be needed.
The prefabricated parts are delivered on site and can be self assembled. GAIA organizes workshops where the exact assembly, the function of the items and the commissioning will be explained. Among the participants of regional groups are organized. This should assist in establishing jointly. Thus, each individual bring in a group his skills very well.


NOW you want to be here? Then send the form back to us.
Step 1: way stating name, first name, postcode and place of residence, a deposit of at least € 2400,00 gross until not later than 31.07.2014.
These deadlines are on a GAIA club account. Through our reconfirmation Your registration will be valid. The GAIA bank you can find in the bottom of each page.


Step 2: Fill out online or via the application for membership from GAIA PDF and will before the workshops of the GAIA Community.
This step is from a legal and insurance-related point of view, a prerequisite for participation in GAIA workshops.


Other conditions:
Are we achieving the manufacturer-approved number of installations before 31.07.2014, we are required to close the registration period earlier. If your down payment at this time are still on the way to us, we try our best, or transfer you your deposit back at no cost.
Since the rights and patent owner intends subsequently to grant licenses for the private sector, we must announce the number of participants until 31.07.2014. This allowed us to build the plants even independently of subsequent licenses and price expectations of licensees. We get this opportunity because of the good contacts to the patent owner and our staff during the initial phase of this technology in the small plant sector.
Since not all plants can be built at the same time, the enrollment is made after receipt of the deposit.
Built by GAIA demonstration unit, after completion in Austria exclusively by those members participants who signed up to 31.07.2014 and paid the deposit, to the public.
If it turns out on inspection of the plant, which these conditions is not under your technich feasible, we will refund your deposit. You may strung on hold athletes move with it.
After the completion and commissioning of the demonstration plant, the workshop dates will be online here posted on the website and commissioned the production of the items. Until then, all components are precisely calculated and the exact Invesitionsbetrag is fixed. The amount of the final payment is then sent to you and to fully fund the procurement of materials at short notice due to start construction.
Has never been independent generation of electrical energy as low.

Offline Rafael Ti

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2014, 06:54:03 AM »
Some "secrets" of Water Perpetual Motion here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzrVF0EzH3I&index=8&list=UUOe_8Y0tkbedNBsLuuzFTBA

P.S.
Congrats on your build guys from gaia-energy!
I always said that gravity chains are much more efficient than gravity wheels :)
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 05:24:52 PM by Rafael Ti »

Offline norman6538

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possible buoyancy motor idea for discussion
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2016, 02:13:46 AM »
This is based on the following video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxFXsoqbfrk
and was discussed somewhere in overunity.com but I lost track
of where that was.

Given a 3 lb weight that barely floats. The volume of the object is enough
 that it can be pushed down and submerged by 1 ft lb. which means the object
 displaces less than 3 lb of water and floats.
 
Given that the 3 lb weight is submerged into the bottom of a sealed 10 ft tube
 of water it will rise to the top.

Then when removed from the water with maybe 3 ft lbs of work
it will have 30 ft lbs of potential work.
We then subtract the work in of 1 ft lb plus 3 ft lbs from 30 ft lbs we have
26 usable ft. lbs of work....

This will work because in water the 3lb weight does not have its full weight
because of buoyancy whereas in air out of water it has the full 3lbs of weight.

This would not work if the float had little weight like foam because
there would be few ft. lbs of potential energy when out of the water
and it would take more ft lbs of work to submerge it than it weighs due to the
large volume and low weight.


Of coarse I have not considered the valve changing work required.

I tested the idea with a plastic slide film container and several nuts from
a bolt. With 2 nuts it floats and with 3 it sinks. So in a sealed tube it would rise
many feet giving many "foot nuts" of work.

Do you see any flaws in this idea? Do you have any suggestions?

Gentlemen "start your serious discussion engines" roar roar.....

I hope this creates a new topic. The help did not led me to the new topic tab.
Well it did not create a new topic. If you know how to do that please
enlighten me.

Norman

 

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