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Author Topic: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel  (Read 31758 times)

Offline roberval

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gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« on: June 03, 2013, 06:13:00 PM »
would this work ?
 
 the wheel is completely submerged underwater.
 it consists of A legs, with one leg containing a float (light blue) and the other a weight (red).
 the buoyancy of the float is equal to the downward force of the weight .
 
 as the wheel rotates, the A-legs " in the 1:30 position on the top right side in pic 1" start to open due to the float being on the upper arm of the A-leg, and the weight on the lower arm of the A-leg.
 
 the A-legs on the opposite side of the wheel " in the 7:30 position on the lower left side of pic 1" start to close due to the weight now being on the upper A-leg arm, and the float on the lower arm of the A leg.
 
 what hasn't been included in the diagram is the secondary mechanism that the arms move to create overbalance as the arms move in and out.
 
 the floats and weights would be more forceful  than the secondary "overbalance" system it moves.
 e.g. 10 liter float filled with Air on one of the arms of the A-leg pair, 10 kg weights on the other arm of the A leg to lift 5kg on the secondary system, to create an overbalance for rotation
 
 pic 1. shows a basic design with 4 pairs of A legs with weights and floats.
 pic 2. is a 180 degree mirror image of the design in pic 1 and runs on the same axle.
 pic 3. the combination of pic 1-2 running on the same axle.

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Offline roberval

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2013, 07:39:47 PM »
Added another pic that basically shows a system of weighted arms that would be moved by the A-legs system.
 had not included them in the previous post, as the system shown in the previous post that shows a mechanical system that stays in balance when turned 360 degrees, and stays in balance during the movement of the opening and closing of the A-legs.
 The movement of the A-legs could be used with a variety of systems to create the overbalance or rotation of the wheel.
 e.g. hydraulics, pneumatics  e.t.c.

Offline Low-Q

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2013, 10:35:41 PM »
would this work ?
 

No. General physics applies to the buoyancy effect as well. Something has to give if something is gained.
You can make it work if you apply different temperatures in the water to the left and right. This will change density on both sides, but you have to keep applying energy to make that happen.


So what you have designed is a wheel that conserves energy perfectly ;-)


Vidar

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2013, 10:35:41 PM »
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Offline roberval

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2013, 11:17:11 AM »
Vidar,
 attached another variation of the design, as the 2 halves of Pic 1 and Pic 2 are joined on the same axle
with the result being what is shown in pic 3 without showing the secondary system
 
Pic 4 is only showing 1 half of the system which is basically showing sliding weights in pink that the A-legs move to create the overbalance.
Starts to get a little too complicated when trying to show several devices in a 2 dimensional drawing.

 pic 5 shows the position of the open and closed pair of A-legs as it is every 90 degrees.
 it consists of 8 pairs of A-legs with 8 floats and 8 weights.

when the wheel turns 90 degrees CW the No8 pair of legs start to open as the float is now on the upper leg, and the weight on the lower leg.
the no 7 pair of legs start to close, as the float is now on the lower leg, and the weight is on the upper leg.

the no 3 pair of legs start to close, as the float is now on the lower leg, and the weight is on the upper leg.

the no 4 pair of legs start to open, as the float is now on the upper leg, and the weight is on the lower leg.

 2 pairs of the legs "180 degrees apart" can perform work together when they open or close.
 if the weights were 1 kg and the buoyancy of the floats are equal to the downward force of the weights  e.g. 1 liter air filled float plus the extra needed to balance the weight of the A-leg arm, the float shell  e.t.c.
 the 2 pairs of A-legs would produce 2kg lift, and 2kg down force when they open or close.

 checked out the difference in buoyancy due to depth, if the wheel is only 1 meter from end to end, the lowest floats would have about a 10% increase in buoyancy compared to the top float, though as in the example above if the 2 pairs of A-legs has a 2kg upward force and 2 kg downward force they should easily be able to lift a 1 kg weight, which would create much more overbalance compared to about 200grams of difference in buoyancy caused by the 2 lower floats.

 if i were to manually rotate the wheel 90 degrees, 2 pairs of A legs would open, and another 2 pairs of A-legs would close, with the result being the same position as in Pic 5, which looks balanced.

 the secondary system that creates the overbalance has not been included in Pic 5, as it starts to get too complicated on a 2D drawing, besides the secondary system is just a matter of simple mechanics or a variety of other systems that could produce rotation.
 The main point of the system shown in Pic 5 is that it stays in balance during rotation while 2 pairs of A-legs open, and another 2 pairs of A-legs close which can be used to perform work on the secondary drive system which turns the wheel.

Offline Rafael Ti

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2013, 11:19:09 AM »
@roberval
There are less complicated ways to check gravity - buoyancy wheels. I don't say your design is bad, of course.


All the best.

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2013, 11:19:09 AM »
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Offline roberval

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2013, 11:51:25 AM »
Rafael,
 i understand why the 2 designs you posted don't work.

 the system i posted in Pic 5 shows a wheel in perfect balance during it's 360 degree rotation, apart from the difference in buoyancy due to the depth of water.
   
the confusion might lie in the fact that the design needs a secondary system to create rotation, though the most important part of the design is a system that stays balanced, and has the ability to perform work due to the A-leg movements, which can be utilized by a secondary system to create the overbalance.

 if this was a gravity only wheel (not submerged underwater) that stayed balanced while the A-legs opened and closed, turning the wheel by hand would be similar to turning a flywheel with no back force.
 It would then simply need a secondary system that utilized the movement of the A-legs to create the overbalance.
 

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2013, 03:15:57 PM »
I'm glad you include an arrow to indicate the direction of rotation. Because without that arrow, the devices sketched would turn equally well in either direction, since they aren't actually overbalanced at all.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2013, 03:15:57 PM »
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Offline markdansie

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2013, 04:04:22 PM »
The Anwser is No.
I have never seen a proof of concept of either a buoyancy or gravity device that could self run let alone produce any excess energy.


Offline Rafael Ti

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2013, 11:21:36 AM »
I'm glad you include an arrow to indicate the direction of rotation. Because without that arrow, the devices sketched would turn equally well in either direction, since they aren't actually overbalanced at all.
;D You know.. the submarine wheels have a big advantage over the classic ones. Especially when you have a swimming pool on your court and don't have a basement... Moreover they are lighter.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2013, 11:21:36 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2013, 07:52:54 PM »
@roberval
There are less complicated ways to check gravity - buoyancy wheels. I don't say your design is bad, of course.


All the best.
Pic no. 2 is a classic. The amount of air inside the pockets can't be more than the weights can push out or suck into them. There is a relationship between the weights and the amount of air. This relationship is ofcourse perfectly balanced and equal in both directions.


Vidar

Offline Rafael Ti

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2013, 08:25:07 PM »
Pic no. 2 is a classic. The amount of air inside the pockets can't be more than the weights can push out or suck into them. There is a relationship between the weights and the amount of air. This relationship is ofcourse perfectly balanced and equal in both directions.
Vidar

 ;D Vidar.. of course you need to do your homework on this forum. Norway is rich thanks to oil, however some other countries are rich in water  ;) .
So what if the solid weight causes more force than the pocket filled with the air? Air pockets in conjunction with the weights make the left side of wheel lighter and it doesn't matter that solid weights are heavy. They should be heavy enough to pump the air from place to place however air will make one side lighter than opposite one.
All the best

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2013, 08:25:07 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2013, 11:20:57 PM »
;D  Vidar.. of course you need to do your homework on this forum. Norway is rich thanks to oil, however some other countries are rich in water  ;)  .So what if the solid weight causes more force than the pocket filled with the air? Air pockets in conjunction with the weights make the left side of wheel lighter and it doesn't matter that solid weights are heavy. They should be heavy enough to pump the air from place to place however air will make one side lighter than opposite one.All the best

Yes, the greater air volume on the left side is more buoyant than the one on the right. But also the weights on the left is in average further from the hub than the weights on the right. The drawing has a minor flaw that does not show this correctly. The bottom volume should be smaller than the one on the top for example. This will arrange the positions of the weights differently.


Yes, Norway is a rich country, but most of our electric power comes from hydroplants - waterfalls that are found everywhere in the mountains, but also power plants in rivers, dams, etc. So we know well how the water should power our homes and the factories.
No matter how much or little money you got, you cannot trick nature. Gravitywheels like these will not work.


Vidar




Offline roberval

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2013, 04:59:38 AM »
 made a huge stuff up, it was right in front of me.
 for some reason i kept thinking about the paired weights and floats being balanced,
somehow the obvious flaw had been overlooked, which is at the 12:00 and 6:00 position 2 floats are at top and 2 weights at the bottom when the arms open up. 

Offline Rafael Ti

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2013, 07:10:43 AM »
you cannot trick nature. Gravitywheels like these will not work.
Vidar
We are all here to "trick the nature"... This is what Overunity dot com is about. The ideas are more important than solutions, because it is hard for some parties to patent some ideas. There may be few good ideas, but thousand particular solutions, developments ect. and that is better for "average" mankind.
For example pic.2 is actually Besslers No. 108 device:

http://orka.bibliothek.uni-kassel.de/viewer/image/1345798641226/88/#topDocAnchor

@ Mr roberval
Did you try something with Roberval Balance? It's very interesting thing.

Offline roberval

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Re: gravity-buoyancy underwater wheel
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2013, 08:11:22 AM »

@ Mr roberval
Did you try something with Roberval Balance? It's very interesting thing.

 My current project involves a Roberval balance, the design is used to transfer a non gravity force, which is passed onto a secondary gravity system,
the forces of both systems remain in equilibrium.
have tried a fair few systems using the balance and believe it's one of besslers most important clues , as it shows many devices in equilibrium.
The hammermen toy is another important clue.
 keeping a close eye on the Brazilian beast.

 haven't figured out how it works, though keep checking the design to see if they somehow transferred the weight from the vertical beams to a longer horizontal beam to increase leverage when the weight is disconnected from the roberval vertical beam.
 tried variations of the idea myself, though no gain as it took the same amount of work to lift the weight back from the longer lever onto the Roberval's  vertical beam.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 10:41:21 AM by roberval »

 

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