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Author Topic: Tesla's Charging Circuit and it's Application to Pulse Motors  (Read 44407 times)

Farmhand

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Hi all, I've found the charging circuit from Tesla's patent "Electrical Igniter For Gas Engines" linked below, to be quite useful for improving the performance of pulse motors, firstly using the circuit as intended to get an increased charge into a capacitor (over the potential the supply can provide) for discharging through a coil, namely the motor coil or coils in a pulse motor, or other motor if applicable. I believe the nature of the sudden capacitor discharge through the coil is beneficial alone, and together with the increased potential serves a useful and practical purpose. This can be achieved by the charging circuit principal being applied to the pulse motor.

Secondly the magnetizing force produced by the charging coil when current flows through it can also be utilized to increase the torque of the rotor considerably with almost no appreciable extra cost in input power. I have not tested and quantified any benefits as yet but the increase in efficiency and torque for input (compared between when the charging circuit is used but the magnetizing force not utilized and when the magnetizing force is utilized) is obvious when done. And the pulse motor seems more efficient when a charging circuit is used compared to when one is not used as well. So I urge people to do some simple tests and see for themselves any possible benefits they can get from the principal as applied to pulse motors in this way.  :)

http://www.google.com/patents?id=iAVhAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=1#v=onepage&q&f=false

I've made a set of fairly lengthy video's to explain the principal and how I use it and what I am doing with the prototype motor I built to see if it would actually work. Being that the prototype is made from wood and there are many compromises made, it's efficiency and usefulness at low power inputs has surprised me, as well  the ability of the motor to run heavier loads (with adjustment) with more input is quite good as well.

Some video's are still uploading and I'll list them here when done.

This is an older video and I've made changes since, but it shows the effect of the charging coil being placed near the rotor and taken away, from 7:20 minutes in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1_KlgJ09Bs

This is the first of the lengthy video's showing and trying  :-[ to explain what I'm doing "at present" with Tesla's charging circuit in the motor and my control circuit ect.. My ability to explain things is poor.
Video 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUxFHPMa65A

This is the second part of the lengthy explanation.
Video 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpnSD_4wO4Q

Video 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwSGBnX-wKE

Short demo with three outputs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BanKGAVa9SQ

They are lengthy but I don't know any other way to explain it than to just talk as if I'm explaining it to someone standing there with me and just nodding their head as I talk. hehehe, I'm not trying for presenter of the week that's for certain.  ;D

The rotor in the prototype weighs 390 grams without the extra (squirrel cage pulley) on the shaft and about 580 with it on the shaft.

I'm quite happy to do specific tests if they can give some figures to consider.  :)

Cheers
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 07:02:34 PM by Farmhand »

forest

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Re: Tesla's Charging Circuit and it's Application to Pulse Motors
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2013, 02:16:19 PM »
Farmhand, this is more about this ...Holy Grail of OU.... I'm working on solid state version but having problem with timings. Now look again at it and asnwer me where is reactive power now ?

Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's Charging Circuit and it's Application to Pulse Motors
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2013, 02:56:51 PM »
Hi all, I've found the charging circuit from Tesla's patent "Electrical Igniter For Gas Engines" linked below, to be quite useful for improving the performance of pulse motors, firstly using the circuit as intended to get an increased charge into a capacitor (over the potential the supply can provide) for discharging through a coil, namely the motor coil or coils in a pulse motor, or other motor if applicable. I believe the nature of the sudden capacitor discharge through the coil is beneficial alone, and together with the increased potential serves a useful and practical purpose. This can be achieved by the charging circuit principal being applied to the pulse motor.

Secondly the magnetizing force produced by the charging coil when current flows through it can also be utilized to increase the torque of the rotor considerably with almost no appreciable extra cost in input power. I have not tested and quantified any benefits as yet but the increase in efficiency and torque for input (compared between when the charging circuit is used but the magnetizing force not utilized and when the magnetizing force is utilized) is obvious when done. And the pulse motor seems more efficient when a charging circuit is used compared to when one is not used as well. So I urge people to do some simple tests and see for themselves any possible benefits they can get from the principal as applied to pulse motors in this way.  :)

http://www.google.com/patents?id=iAVhAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=1#v=onepage&q&f=false

I've made a set of fairly lengthy video's to explain the principal and how I use it and what I am doing with the prototype motor I built to see if it would actually work. Being that the prototype is made from wood and there are many compromises made, it's efficiency and usefulness at low power inputs has surprised me, as well  the ability of the motor to run heavier loads (with adjustment) with more input is quite good as well.

Some video's are still uploading and I'll list them here when done.

This is an older video and I've made changes since, but it shows the effect of the charging coil being placed near the rotor and taken away, from 7:20 minutes in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1_KlgJ09Bs

This is the first of the lengthy video's showing and trying  :-[ to explain what I'm doing "at present" with Tesla's charging circuit in the motor and my control circuit ect.. My ability to explain things is poor.
Video 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUxFHPMa65A

This is the second part of the lengthy explanation.
Video 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpnSD_4wO4Q

Still more soon. They are lengthy but I don't know any other way to explain it than to just talk as if I'm explaining it to someone standing there with me and just nodding their head as I talk. hehehe, I'm not trying for presenter of the week that's for certain.  ;D

The rotor in the prototype weighs 390 grams without the extra (squirrel cage pulley) on the shaft and about 580 with it on the shaft.

I'm quite happy to do specific tests if they can give some figures to consider.  :)

Cheers

"Secondly the magnetizing force produced by the charging coil when current flows through it can also be utilized to increase the torque of the rotor considerably with almost no appreciable extra cost in input power."

There is a thread her on the Igniter that I started a while back.

Here is a motor that uses the 'large' inductance inductor as an orbo effect on the rotor that helps the rotor spin faster while charging the cap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2MwBg33D80

Mags

Tito L. Oracion

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Re: Tesla's Charging Circuit and it's Application to Pulse Motors
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2013, 03:04:19 PM »
 :-\

Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's Charging Circuit and it's Application to Pulse Motors
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2013, 03:09:31 PM »
Second video is uploaded and linked in the first post. I''ll include a basic drawing showing as simple and correct a setup as I can draw, but I'll need to hand draw it to get the coil angles correct and whatnot. I'll make the drawing as a single motor coil and single charging coil with the component values that work for me and with just a 12 volt battery supply ect. The very basic setup. I won't post any other drawings here until I do that.


Forest, Please don't take this the wrong way, but I have no idea what you mean by
Quote
Farmhand, this is more about this ...Holy Grail of OU..
. Please elaborate ! Do you think I am showing OU ? That's an honest question. Not sarcasm.

I'm also unsure of the next part.
Quote
I'm working on solid state version but having problem with timings.
Do you mean you are working on a solid state version of something making use of a charging circuit setup for pulsing coils or for some other purpose ?

The last part as well is a bit confusing to me.
Quote
Now look again at it and answer me where is reactive power now ?

With my arrangement there is a blocking diode so no power can return to the supply, therefore the power factor (if there could be said there is a power factor for this type of setup) would in one kind of way be 1.0 or 0.98 maybe for my motor. All power taken from the supply is used.

I don't see the discharge of energy from the collapse of the magnetic field of a coil as "reactive power" as such. In a system where the energy can return to the supply then that energy which does return is represented as "reactive power" and quantified or described as the "power factor", as I see it anyhow. The utilization of the "de-q-ing" diode prevents any reactive power returning to the supply from the positive rail. However when the charge battery is connected in series with the supply battery some current does flow to the positive terminal, but my experiments indicate that it does not add to the supply, rather that energy is dissipated in the battery or otherwise. When I remove all of the energy discharged from the motor coils from the motor circuit (out of it's "system") and switch it through an external load (without the caps or anything being in series with the supply) then the setup seems to run very much the same except the energy seems to better utilized by taking it out of the system than it is when it is recycled. I think this is due to the motor coil being subjected to increasingly more and more current until equilibrium when the motor coil discharges are recycled in full with not much actual load.

Cheers

Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's Charging Circuit and it's Application to Pulse Motors
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2013, 03:34:00 PM »
Yes Magluvin, That is the effect, If I remember correctly I mentioned the possibility during the RomeroUK thread. As far as I was aware nobody did anything with it, and that is the first I've seen of your video there. No offence but if that is as far as you took it then it needs to go further. I am describing the coil angles that work for me and showing the current phase differences and Intend to eventually do many tests and develop the principal and side benefits that it allows to be used with it.. Who came up with the idea first is not that important to me, but I did mention it, and it's possible use in the RomeroUK thread as best I can remember and several times since and before that time as well. I certainly don't discount that others have come up with the idea themselves, it does seem obvious. But I think it needs to be described and explained better, hopefully so more people can benefit from it.

Your video shows an increase in speed but I don't see any real time input power measurements or anything. Good stuff. Great to see you got a positive result doing it, Bit of a shame if not many people utilized the principal. It's run of the mill stuff for Tesla coils.  :)

Regardless I intend show how I'm doing it and as many details as I can.

Also I must say what I'm doing has nothing to do with the "ORBO". Not that I am aware of, I didn't pay much attention to the orbo though.

As well depending on the frequency and the cap size ect. depends on what inductance can be used well, it's all relative. If too much inductance is used then there won't be enough time for the supply voltage to charge the capacitor amongst other things. If "de-q-ing" diode/s are used then the energy cannot return to the supply, many details to cover.

Cheers

P.S. I wish you had mentioned when I said I didn't know where to post about the motor using this principal. If you did I would have posted there as long as there was no insinuation of extra energy involved.  :)

..

Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's Charging Circuit and it's Application to Pulse Motors
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2013, 04:49:57 PM »
Yes Magluvin, That is the effect, If I remember correctly I mentioned the possibility during the RomeroUK thread. As far as I was aware nobody did anything with it, and that is the first I've seen of your video there. No offence but if that is as far as you took it then it needs to go further. I am describing the coil angles that work for me and showing the current phase differences and Intend to eventually do many tests and develop the principal and side benefits that it allows to be used with it.. Who came up with the idea first is not that important to me, but I did mention it, and it's possible use in the RomeroUK thread as best I can remember and several times since and before that time as well. I certainly don't discount that others have come up with the idea themselves, it does seem obvious. But I think it needs to be described and explained better, hopefully so more people can benefit from it.

Your video shows an increase in speed but I don't see any real time input power measurements or anything. Good stuff. Great to see you got a positive result doing it, Bit of a shame if not many people utilized the principal. It's run of the mill stuff for Tesla coils.  :)

Regardless I intend show how I'm doing it and as many details as I can.

Also I must say what I'm doing has nothing to do with the "ORBO". Not that I am aware of, I didn't pay much attention to the orbo though.

As well depending on the frequency and the cap size ect. depends on what inductance can be used well, it's all relative. If too much inductance is used then there won't be enough time for the supply voltage to charge the capacitor amongst other things. If "de-q-ing" diode/s are used then the energy cannot return to the supply, many details to cover.

Cheers

P.S. I wish you had mentioned when I said I didn't know where to post about the motor using this principal. If you did I would have posted there as long as there was no insinuation of extra energy involved.  :)

..

"No offence but if that is as far as you took it then it needs to go further."

None taken. I was just showing an example of making use of the large inductor in a way that doesnt take anything from the system using the orbo effect of the large inductor while it is used for other things. So it shows that along with great efficiency, there is more efficiency to be had with this method. If others want to take it further, its open source info.

I still work with the igniter circuit in some projects. There is efficiency there. From what I have found, Tesla knew that 'holding' the 'points' together, for as long as they are, between ignition firings to energize the primary is a huge waste of energy, all just to eventually release the points to produce the spark. So it is a low freq situation, therefore the 'large inductance' in the patent.  When the cap is discharged into the primary, there is oscillation producing multiple sparks instead of just a single snap. In 'standard' points ignition systems, there is the waste of the holding of the points, but there is a cap(condenser) across the points where when the points release, the cap is across the primary and oscillation happens producing a longer, high power spark time. With out that cap, or if it goes bad, the spark output as a whole is severely reduced.

The igniter is essentially a capacitive discharge charge circuit and is a basic form of MSD ignition.


So along with the efficiency gain of charging of the cap, one must take advantage of that oscillation properly in order to have optimum outputs. By dumping the cap into a coil that requires DC to motivate the rotor is not taking advantage of the oscillation of which there is another level of efficiency if applied properly. ;)

Mags

Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's Charging Circuit and it's Application to Pulse Motors
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2013, 04:54:12 PM »


P.S. I wish you had mentioned when I said I didn't know where to post about the motor using this principal. If you did I would have posted there as long as there was no insinuation of extra energy involved.  :)

..

Yes, i understand. Some do not condone 'extra' energy. ::)   But this site is suppose to be about extra energy, isnt it? ;)   Thats what most are here for. Some not.

Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's Charging Circuit and it's Application to Pulse Motors
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2013, 11:22:54 PM »
So along with the efficiency gain of charging of the cap, one must take advantage of that oscillation properly in order to have optimum outputs. By dumping the cap into a coil that requires DC to motivate the rotor is not taking advantage of the oscillation of which there is another level of efficiency if applied properly. ;)

Mags

I disagree, that's baloney in my opinion, the oscillation does not happen when a de-q-ing diode is used. The oscillation you seen is the result of your setup alone and there is no evidence that it happens all the time. And I can tell you the oscillation is a result of the energy sloshing back and forth. An ignition coil in a car works at different frequencies and when the resonance frequency of the charging circuit's L/C is reached there is no back flow of energy, the oscillation is the result of the inductance of the charging coil and the capacitance not operating at the resonance frequency, it doesn't need to, It is not a good thing in my situation and is merely a consequence of Tesla having no diodes to use.

You ought to do some research on resonant charging circuits. Here- http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/dcreschg.html find the part on extinction frequencies and the de-q-ing diode.

Some text on extinction frequencies.

Quote
However, we also discussed how the capacitor voltage continues to oscillate freely about the HVDC supply voltage, and returns to zero volts at regular intervals. It is clear that any attempt to fire the spark gap when the capacitor voltage is near zero volts will process little power ! These points are marked by RED arrows.

We can quickly see that the capacitor voltage returns to zero after every complete period of the resonant charging circuit. Therefore attempting to fire the gap at whole multiples of this period will achieve no power throughput. In fact the firings only serve to reinforce the natural oscillation of the charging circuit, but do not remove any energy from the system.

Any firing rate which is a factor of the resonant charging frequency forces the power throughput to zero. I refer to these firing rates as "extinction frequencies".

Quote
De-Q-ing the charging circuit

The extinction frequencies occur because the capacitor voltage returns to zero after reaching its peak value. This occurs because current begins to flow from the tank capacitor back through the charging inductor after the capacitor has reached maximum voltage. We would very much like the capacitor voltage not to fall, and instead remain at its maximum voltage for two reasons. Firstly this ensures maximum power throughput, and secondly we have freedom in our choice of exactly when to fire the spark gap.

This can be achieved by placing a high voltage diode in series with the charging inductor as shown. The diode allows current to flow from left to right through the inductor, charging the capacitor as before. However, it prevents the inductor current from changing direction and halts the resonant process when the capacitor is at twice the supply voltage.

 Honestly you make your own self look silly.

And I bet you only tried that setup after I mentioned it in the RomeroUk Muller thread. Makes sense since you didn't mention it during the entire time I posted about what I am doing.  ;D

You show no evidence of the claim you make about the oscillation. And an oscillation in a charging circuit means very little.

You show some degree of wanting to dismiss what I am doing by what you say.

It won't work, The thing with the oscillation is pure rubbish. I have to say.

Now I have good reason to ignore you.

Go to Richie Burnett and tell him he is not utilizing the charging circuit in the best possible way for him. Sheez

It is my opinion that if Tesla had of had a semiconductor diode he would have used it in that circuit, and I think he would have done so because it is an improvement to the circuit.
And is an obvious one. However the circuit will still work without it, but not as well or as versatile.

Tesla's patent is about the ignition coil, but the resonant charging circuit can be used in many other ways, the best way to use it is the way it works best in the situation you use it in.

If we take hard evidence and apply logical thinking the possibilities are obvious.

This thread is in the Tesla Technology section where there is no overtone of needing to be about free energy or OU. But to be technical, the motor only uses free energy form the sun it cost nothing for the electricity to run it. So it's a machine that runs on free energy because that is all I've supplied it so far. Free solar energy. I see no reason to try to make free energy from free energy. I want to find efficient ways to use my free energy.  :o

Cheers

Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's Charging Circuit and it's Application to Pulse Motors
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2013, 11:58:07 PM »
There are now 5 video's in the first post. I'll start on the basic simplified drawing today.

For those interested that is, those not interested should refrain from posting. There is no reason or need to make this any more complicated or confuse the subject. It's a simple principal and the way I apply it to the motor is just one way. It can be done in any way that it works.

The basic purpose is to provide an increased voltage into the charge capacitors for powering the motor coil/s, the secondary purpose is to help drive the rotor as any normal coil does, by magnetizing force due to current flow. The rest is details. It works and is efficient but it isn't free energy and I see no way it can be, it's just better use of the energy.

Once again seeing just a rotor spin and/or speed up does not impress me much. I will be using the motor to drive loads of different kinds. As I am already doing, the motor has many hours of continuous work done already and is almost constantly running. This is called utilizing energy with a machine to do useful work effciently.

Cheers

Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's Charging Circuit and it's Application to Pulse Motors
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2013, 12:46:04 AM »
I disagree, that's baloney in my opinion, the oscillation does not happen when a de-q-ing diode is used. The oscillation you seen is the result of your setup alone and there is no evidence that it happens all the time. And I can tell you the oscillation is a result of the energy sloshing back and forth. An ignition coil in a car works at different frequencies and when the resonance frequency of the charging circuit's L/C is reached there is no back flow of energy, the oscillation is the result of the inductance of the charging coil and the capacitance not operating at the resonance frequency, it doesn't need to, It is not a good thing in my situation and is merely a consequence of Tesla having no diodes to use.

You ought to do some research on resonant charging circuits. Here- http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/dcreschg.html find the part on extinction frequencies and the de-q-ing diode.

Some text on extinction frequencies.

 Honestly you make your own self look silly.

And I bet you only tried that setup after I mentioned it in the RomeroUk Muller thread. Makes sense since you didn't mention it during the entire time I posted about what I am doing.  ;D

You show no evidence of the claim you make about the oscillation. And an oscillation in a charging circuit means very little.

You show some degree of wanting to dismiss what I am doing by what you say.

It won't work, The thing with the oscillation is pure rubbish. I have to say.

Now I have good reason to ignore you.

Go to Richie Burnett and tell him he is not utilizing the charging circuit in the best possible way for him. Sheez

Cheers

"I disagree, that's baloney in my opinion, the oscillation does not happen when a de-q-ing diode is used."

What Tesla charging circuit are you referring to?  I thought this was about the igniter for gas engines circuit.   :o    There are no diodes in that circuit. ;) If you have them in your circuit, then it is not the same circuit.


"The oscillation you seen is the result of your setup alone and there is no evidence that it happens all the time."  ::)

I have bench tested so many car coils, I cannot count.   Test an ign coil on the bench, at freq of 400hz or less. This is the freq of an 8 cyl engine running max 6000rpm, just for an average reference, and dont use a cap across the points(switching) and put a scope across the primary winding of the coil. Then put a .47uf 100v cap across the points and then tell me what you see. The oscillation happens through the car battery while were at it, because it is in series with the primary coil, cap and the battery when the points open for ignition.

In 'the' igniter patent, when that cap after being charged by the previous points connection, is put across the primary of the spark transformer at the upper left of the diagram. You are telling me that when that cap is discharging into that primary we get no oscillation within that LC while the points are closed? ???  Have you built the actual circuit as shown???   You better check again.  Im not saying the oscillation lasts for ever.  Heck, put it on a sim. Same thing. ;)


"It is not a good thing in my situation and is merely a consequence of Tesla having no diodes to use."   

No kidding, didnt I say that in my previous post. ;)


" Honestly you make your own self look silly. "    ::)


 
"And I bet you only tried that setup after I mentioned it in the RomeroUk Muller thread. Makes sense since you didn't mention it during the entire time I posted about what I am doing.  ;D "   

Oh really? ??? ::)     Did you see the date on that video???  How about this thread link below???
http://www.overunity.com/8841/electrical-igniter-for-gas-engines-a-keystone-to-understanding-by-magluvin/msg230598/#msg230598

Tisk tisk.  Yep, thats 'my' thread. :P   Im not feeling silly. How bout you???   ;) What is your problem? Like YOU DISCOVERED IT FIRST. WELL WHO CARES?? ;) Gimme a break. Were not in grade school here. ::)


"You show no evidence of the claim you make about the oscillation. And an oscillation in a charging circuit means very little."

The Igniter circuit is an AC circuit while the cap and the primary are together and oscillating. Its not a DC output device. And further more, if the points were connected for a long period of time, the cap, battery, and the large inductance will oscillate,, sloshing as you call it at low freq. Thats why the Large inductance value is chosen for the particular range of freq that the points will be closed, and choosen large enough to not have time for reversal before the contacts are open again. 


"You show some degree of wanting to dismiss what I am doing by what you say.
"
Not in the least. I use the igniter(modified or not) with many of my projects.


"It won't work, The thing with the oscillation is pure rubbish. I have to say.

Now I have good reason to ignore you."

Ignor me. Fine. If you cannot nor have ever seen oscillation in 'Teslas igniter circuit', I dont know what to say.  There are others that have, I can assure you.  Ask Forest, Tito, Gyula.  Ask Point to run a sim.

Maybe your large inductance isnt so large. Maybe your caps are not small enough in value for oscillation to occur at your particular freq of operation.  But I can tell you, that oscillation between the cap and the primary of the spark coil does happen when the switch is closed, and the larger and longer lasting spark is evidence of what works better for making 'igniter' sparks as the patent shows it used for the purpose of 'ignition'.  This is a capacitive discharge ignition system. It sparks when the switch is closed, vs the standard ign systems that spark when the switch is opened. But both provide oscillation of the primary of the spark coil.



"Go to Richie Burnett and tell him he is not utilizing the charging circuit in the best possible way for him. Sheez"

Na. Dont know the guy and dont care.

Mags




Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's Charging Circuit and it's Application to Pulse Motors
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2013, 01:02:11 AM »
I disagree, that's baloney in my opinion, the oscillation does not happen when a de-q-ing diode is used. The oscillation you seen is the result of your setup alone and there is no evidence that it happens all the time. And I can tell you the oscillation is a result of the energy sloshing back and forth. An ignition coil in a car works at different frequencies and when the resonance frequency of the charging circuit's L/C is reached there is no back flow of energy, the oscillation is the result of the inductance of the charging coil and the capacitance not operating at the resonance frequency, it doesn't need to, It is not a good thing in my situation and is merely a consequence of Tesla having no diodes to use.

You ought to do some research on resonant charging circuits. Here- http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/dcreschg.html find the part on extinction frequencies and the de-q-ing diode.

Some text on extinction frequencies.

 Honestly you make your own self look silly.

And I bet you only tried that setup after I mentioned it in the RomeroUk Muller thread. Makes sense since you didn't mention it during the entire time I posted about what I am doing.  ;D

You show no evidence of the claim you make about the oscillation. And an oscillation in a charging circuit means very little.

You show some degree of wanting to dismiss what I am doing by what you say.

It won't work, The thing with the oscillation is pure rubbish. I have to say.

Now I have good reason to ignore you.

Go to Richie Burnett and tell him he is not utilizing the charging circuit in the best possible way for him. Sheez

It is my opinion that if Tesla had of had a semiconductor diode he would have used it in that circuit, and I think he would have done so because it is an improvement to the circuit.
And is an obvious one. However the circuit will still work without it, but not as well or as versatile.

Tesla's patent is about the ignition coil, but the resonant charging circuit can be used in many other ways, the best way to use it is the way it works best in the situation you use it in.

If we take hard evidence and apply logical thinking the possibilities are obvious.

This thread is in the Tesla Technology section where there is no overtone of needing to be about free energy or OU. But to be technical, the motor only uses free energy form the sun it cost nothing for the electricity to run it. So it's a machine that runs on free energy because that is all I've supplied it so far. Free solar energy. I see no reason to try to make free energy from free energy. I want to find efficient ways to use my free energy.  :o

Cheers

Uggg, now after I have replied to your post in my last post, you have added to it. ::)   Ill cover that here.

"It is my opinion that if Tesla had of had a semiconductor diode he would have used it in that circuit, and I think he would have done so because it is an improvement to the circuit.
And is an obvious one. However the circuit will still work without it, but not as well or as versatile."

I dont completely disagree. Ill leave it at that.


"This thread is in the Tesla Technology section where there is no overtone of needing to be about free energy or OU. But to be technical, the motor only uses free energy form the sun it cost nothing for the electricity to run it. So it's a machine that runs on free energy because that is all I've supplied it so far. Free solar energy. I see no reason to try to make free energy from free energy. I want to find efficient ways to use my free energy.  :o "

Yes I am getting it. You are allergic to the words Free Energy. I get it. Just the inkling of the mention make you cringe it would seem. Heck you just might melt if I say it.  I wonder if that is in the rules here at 'OU' that threads can be moderated to prevent others from talking about free energy? I would find that ironic. ;)   Are there not forums that deal strictly with just under COP motors and devices, being that is what you are concentrating on and nothing more, according to your statement above? ;)

Mags

Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's Charging Circuit and it's Application to Pulse Motors
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2013, 03:07:05 AM »

Also I must say what I'm doing has nothing to do with the "ORBO". Not that I am aware of, I didn't pay much attention to the orbo though.

.

Instead of using the 'large' inductance from the Tesla circuits actual magnetic field applied to the rotor directly, my large inductor has an ecore to raise the inductance. The ecore inductor doesnt affect the rotor in the normal motoring way. The rotor magnet is attracted to the core. And then when the magnet is right up on the core, the circuit is timed for the inductor to conduct and the field in the core from the coil lessens the attraction of the rotor magnet allowing the magnet to pass, providing motor action.
It was shown that the magnet passing the core/coil did not affect the input to the coil. So that is why I said the rotor does not affect my coil. It does affect yours because your coil has an open magnetic circuit, where my ecore, or even a toroid are not. Steorn used toroid cores, and I used an ecore because it would have taken way to long to wind all that wire on a toroid. ;)

Mags

forest

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Re: Tesla's Charging Circuit and it's Application to Pulse Motors
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2013, 10:26:36 AM »
Well... I think Tito way would be the best for recovery and when you add two magnets around you would have R.Willis schematic  ;)  However in my case I'm trying to eliminate as much of electronics as possible. Maybe not soon but someday I will ....


Simple advice is to learn again what Tom Bearden descibed : don't kill the dipole. Eliminate reactive power completely or in other words you have to have only DIPOLE when something important is to be done  ::)  Have you ever thought what is the dipole ?
It's encoded in Bearden moving picture Tito mentioned...or in Don Smith show...

Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's Charging Circuit and it's Application to Pulse Motors
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2013, 01:14:06 AM »
I'm not asking for help I'm showing what I'm doing. I have no desire to discuss Bearden or the Orbo. I'm not here to answer vague questions either.

A perfect example of what annoys me is when I mentioned to Mags that a possible good use for a pulse motor is for a fan and a water pump to raise water from a ground level tank to a raised tank. Then Mags starts to try to tell me what I will need too do, what a joke. I am perfectly capable of deciding for myself what I need to do, he spoke of this and that with no idea of my needs ( which is nil in that area ). It wouldn't matter if it took two days or more to move the water, so the pump need not be any particular rating or type, I could use gearing/pulley ratio's to make the work easier for the motor, the time it takes means nothing, there is no hurry, there is nothing to say I even need to use a conventional pump as long as the water is moved then that is all that matters. I was simply stating what a possible good use for a pulse motor could be, and I get sprayed with how I should do it, I never even said I was going to, just that it was a possible use. Jebus.

As far as dipoles go, to transfer energy from a supply to a load then emf must be applied and that comes from a dipole. Bearden was full of it. I pay no attention to him and have no need to. I also have no desire to speak of Tito or Don Smith here, they are full of it as well.

I also have no requirement for others opinions of what I should do, I am open to suggestions but I don't take directions.

I understand how the charging circuit works and how I am using it and why. If anyone see's anything I say as false then speak up and quote me in context with the complaint.

I'm not here to make friends and I didn't start the thread to continuously explain myself in posts. I made this thread to document the principal so that the people who are interested to use it or try it can do so with some help and info. And I'm here to develop novel and useful ways of using my free solar energy, My motor has been running for many hours already and I have not paid one cent for the input energy. That's free energy being used efficiently, I'm happy with that, I don't require any miracles.

When I am ready I'll post a basic drawing as I said I would.

The operation of the charging circuit is clearly defined although many people still do not understand it fully so that they can use it efectively. There is no need for any special oscillation ect. it works as it does and that is that a "de-q-ing" diode is a big improvement to the resonant charging circuit but in some cases where people may want some energy to return to the supply at certain frequencies the "de-q-ing" diode might be not wanted, also in some cases where the input current may not be compatible with a semiconductor diode it might be better left out. The basic purpose of the charging circuit is to provide an increased charge for better effect, all else is gravy.

I use a resonant charging circuit for my Tesla coil primary circuit, it has a large inductance because it is needed (due to the high voltage). I understand what I am doing Mags I explained the benefits of the large inductance for the charging circuit in the Tesla coil primary in the one or two of the Threads about Tesla coils.

I will use as much inductance as I need or want, this prototype has compromises made in several area's, one of them is the coils. I already explained that. It's not time to go into the inductance of the coils for my motor as yet or calculate what would be a suitable inductance for a given setup, other parameters need to be decided first such as the operating electrical frequency and the capacitance used ect. Everything is relative to what we want to achieve not what others think or assume we want to achieve.

This thread is not about the ignition coil patent itself or the ignition coil application of the charging circuit, the patent just explains the charging circuit principal and shows where the idea was patented. Nothing more. I'll use the charging circuit however I please and unless I speak what you see as lies then there is no need to argue about it. IF you have a problem with something I say quote me in context and say so clearly what the problem is, then I will address the issue in whatever way is applicable.

Why fill up the tread with pointless argument and misunderstanding ? That is a kind of suppression, be it intentional or not.

Cheers

P.S. Here's a suggestion guys, go work on your own projects and report on your progress where ever it is you are reporting on your progress.

To reiterate I am open to suggestions but I don't take directions. I am open to valid discussion but have no desire for people to try to tell me what I want to do. When I want help I'll ask for it, but I don't mind something in particular being pointed out to me if it is relative to what I'm doing. If I feel people are being underhanded and casting aspersions or making vague statements of a false or confusing nature I will speak out. And I will usually do so with quotes and links to references.

I expect the same, quotes and references please or it didn't happen.

Cheers