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Author Topic: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap  (Read 179502 times)

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #285 on: July 20, 2013, 10:49:30 PM »
...
I made this bifi coil with 26awg a couple weeks ago. Testing it I found very interesting results.

Measuring 1 of the 2 conductors measures 7mh. Same with the other.  When I put them in parallel it measures 7mh. ??? I wonder if one of those windings were say fishing line, non inductive, would the single winding still read 7mh? Like does the simple presence of the other non connected winding affect the result of measuring the other alone.

Then in series it measures 27mh.  Its bifi, so may not be correct.


Tested it multiple times to be sure.

Ok I think I get what your saying on the freq of the meter.  I measured the freq without an inductor connected. 

200uh scale     786hz
2m   20m   200m  2h    217hz
20h  for some reason reads 222hz

Mags

Hi Mags,

Nice instrument you bought, thanks for showing it, my curiosity is satisfied...   :D ;D :D

On your bifilar coil, you wrote: "When I put them in parallel it measures 7mh. ??? "  If you mean you connect the two start wires together and also the end wires together and you measure 7 mH, then it is CORRECT.  Why? Because all you have done you increased the cross section area of the wires by paralleling them: the same effect as if you were wound the coil with an equivalent thicker SINGLE wire, ok? 
And yes if one of those windings were from fishing line, the other single winding would still read 7 mH.  The simple presence of the other non connected winding normally does not affect the result of measuring the other winding alone. 

You wrote: "Then in series it measures 27mh.  Its bifi, so may not be correct."  It is CORRECT. Due to the mutual inductance between the closely spaced parallel wires, the result in such series aiding connection can be 4 times of any of the single coils inductance alone (the 4 times is in theory, in practice I measured 3.7 to 3.9 times or so increase in inductance).

Thanks for the the measuring frequencies in the L ranges, they are good to know, especially when measuring very high inductance coils which normally was not intended for  'high frequency' operation and checking them at a higher than intended frequency by just your meter it may display L values which are not true at a lower frequency.
In your 20 H range you may wish to see the measuring waveform and its frequency by an oscilloscope too, either without any coil and then with a high L coil like a mains transformer's primary. 

Gyula

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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #286 on: July 20, 2013, 10:57:47 PM »
Here is a pic of the test leads shorted in uh scale.  I made a mistake in my last post. .1uh not .01uh ;D

Mags

Well, normally it should display zero when the input is shorted but this is not a high end instrument. MAybe somewhere inside there is a trimpot to set display to 0.00 when shorting the test leads, otherwise you would have to distract 1.2 uH from a displayed value of say 4 uH (because it displays a negative 1.2 uH).  Of course I do not suggest to turn any trimpot inside unless you obtain a service manual if such exists. 

Gyula

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #287 on: July 21, 2013, 02:12:59 AM »
Well, normally it should display zero when the input is shorted but this is not a high end instrument. MAybe somewhere inside there is a trimpot to set display to 0.00 when shorting the test leads, otherwise you would have to distract 1.2 uH from a displayed value of say 4 uH (because it displays a negative 1.2 uH).  Of course I do not suggest to turn any trimpot inside unless you obtain a service manual if such exists. 

Gyula

Well the manual said to put the leads of the device to be measured directly in the terminal holes. I can imagine that with larger inductances, the addition of the test leads, which are short, add a tiny bit.  Im just happy to get in the ball park really.  ;D

Havnt had time to do much today. Got to get to it in a bit. Making dinner.

Mags

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #287 on: July 21, 2013, 02:12:59 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #288 on: July 29, 2013, 02:21:37 AM »
Finally got some time to work on this. Got the rotor drilled out for mags and Im winding a coil on the rotor for other tests I want to do while Im at it. The winding in the pics is the first of 2, and the second winding will have many more turns. Just to have 2 variations to test.

Will be wiring things up this week. Pondering what to use as terminal posts. Have some bare copper wire from Ace Hdwr.

Mags

Offline Electrogasman

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #289 on: July 29, 2013, 07:11:57 AM »
Gotta Love that guy for pouring out his heart on experiments with motors.

I have many joule ringers.


Maybe I will make this motor? I quess I am to late to see the diagram but will look around for it. 8)

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #289 on: July 29, 2013, 07:11:57 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #291 on: July 29, 2013, 11:16:46 PM »
Finally got some time to work on this. Got the rotor drilled out for mags and Im winding a coil on the rotor for other tests I want to do while Im at it. The winding in the pics is the first of 2, and the second winding will have many more turns. Just to have 2 variations to test.

Will be wiring things up this week. Pondering what to use as terminal posts. Have some bare copper wire from Ace Hdwr.

Mags

Hi Mags,

Nice progress!  I believe pieces of thick bare copper wire would serve for terminal posts.  Albeit, you may have to use a hefty power soldering iron to do any soldering (or unsoldering) to them.

Gyula

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #291 on: July 29, 2013, 11:16:46 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #292 on: July 30, 2013, 04:30:18 AM »
Hi Mags,

Nice progress!  I believe pieces of thick bare copper wire would serve for terminal posts.  Albeit, you may have to use a hefty power soldering iron to do any soldering (or unsoldering) to them.

Gyula

Thanks.  ;D   Yeah, Im going to make some U shape with the copper wire and drill 2 holes in the plexi ring(upward) then a bit of Marine Goop on the bottom. 2 between each coil so I can vary things if I want. Also once I solder the coils leads to one side of the U, I wont have to deal with that any longer and just do hookups on the other sides of the U's. :D

When I wind the second set of coils, bifi, Ill just make another ring and etc. Just swap out the stator rings to test.

The winding on the rotor, this is going to be a test of the Faraday paradox. The magnets will be NSNS and the windings are all UP DOWN UP DOWN accordingly. The windings on the top and bottom should be neutral to the magnets fields(field distortions, concentrations) as they run the direction of rotor motion. Will try an led mounted toward the center of the rotor, and if that doesnt work, Ill make a small set of slip rings for brushes just to see if anything is there. I used the 42awg about 25 turns zig zagging around the rotor. I bounced back the other direction when I hit the beginning to fill in the tops and bottoms. I could have wound each block separately, but, Im me. :o ;D

I had some trouble getting this rotor to level out. My bearings have a flange, but my drilling may have bulged the center hole sides. Block sanded but not as good as I like. My hole on one side was a bit wide for the bearing. So at Ace Hdwr they have fiber washers that fit the bearing nice and tight, while still having some bearing into the rotor material. Then I set the rotor on the post, fiddle a bit till level then thin superglue the fiber washer to the rotor. Now the rotor can be removed off the spindle post without worry. Did a quick spin and mark any high spots on the outer edge of the rotor then sand a bit. Looks good. Nice and balanced. Also found a nylon washer than fits snug on the spindle post to help keep dust out of the graphite treated bearing.

The Spindle post is just an aluminum spacer post that fits the bearing from the hobby shop. Gota keep all these things in mind. But its amazing what you can find locally. The spacers are machined and if screwed down to a level base will most likely be straight up and down. On this plexi base, I used a larger diameter spacer under the spindle post(spacer) to ensure it is level. Its possible the spindle post could be screwed down and cause an impression in the plexy and maybe not all that level. Especially with all the finger motoring, lol  manual spinning can cause issues with level of the rotor if the spindle post is not mounted well.

This pic is of the bottom of the rotor with all the lines for magnet positions and cut lines for the windings.
Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #293 on: August 02, 2013, 06:22:45 AM »
Came up with a nifty solution for wire terminals.  Have some terminal strips that come with Arduino custom boards. ;D

Mags

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #293 on: August 02, 2013, 06:22:45 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #294 on: August 02, 2013, 06:22:43 PM »
Came up with a nifty solution for wire terminals.  Have some terminal strips that come with Arduino custom boards. ;D


Hey Mags,

I suspected you turn to some very elegant eye-catching solution for the terminals.   :D

Just keep it up.

Gyula

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #295 on: September 19, 2013, 07:10:11 AM »
I finally got to finishing my version of Lasers motor. I dont have a lot of time to spend as much as I used to. But its done and it works. Im doing a rundown with a 1000uf cap right now. Started at 35v and has been 22 min and we are down to 15.2v. So it works as described.  ;) Thanks Laser. ;D And Im working with graphite treated bearings instead of needle bearings. I was worried a bit cuz I know the needle bearing has virtually no resistance, where I have more Im sure.

I did not even try much timing yet. Got to get to sleep as I didnt get much sleep last night and was dragging at work.

Heres a couple pics. Will do a vid tomorrow.

Mags


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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #295 on: September 19, 2013, 07:10:11 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #296 on: September 19, 2013, 07:25:07 AM »
Oh, the reed holder is temporary till I get the dual read switch holder/adjuster completed. This one I used plastic tubing and attached the reed to the outside and I have a small neo connected to the end of the clear plexi rod inside the white tube to adjust the lil neo towards the back of the reed to bias it for N pole magnets as I have alternating NSNS on the rotor.

The dual reed concept will have 2 phases where 1 reed fires and when it opens, the coils will dump what ever field collapse current into the other phase cap and vice verse. So 2 individual drive circuits which dump collapse current to each other. Im going to check to see if the is any bemf, as the might not be much due to 15.36kohm total series coil resistance. But still want to do the dual reeds regardless.

Mags

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #297 on: September 19, 2013, 12:45:43 PM »
Hi Mags,

Very nice build, hats off! Thanks for showing the results.

Just out of curiosity, I was playing with some numbers in this link http://www.circuits.dk/calculator_capacitor_discharge.htm where I entered your 35 V as max and your 15.2 V as minimum cap voltages, for ESR I used .03 Ohm (not critical for such calculations at microAmps)) for the 1000 uF capacitor. I found that entering about 22.2 uA as Imax current I got 1320.3 seconds for the resistor load cap discharge. (Your 22 minute long run time was 1320 seconds.)
If I choose the constant current discharge time to be 1320 seconds, then the Imax is 15 uA and the load impedance 2333.3 kOhm
This calculation indicates that your series coils (with the duty cycle defined by the reed on/off and the rpm) represent a 1582.99 kOhm load for the capacitor in the resistive discharge and a 2333.33 kOhm for the constant current discharge.
This load is the series inductive impedance of course and includes the 15.36 kOhm copper resistance, the total coils impedance being also increased by the duty cycle.
So your max current consumption if I am not mistaken much may have been between 15 to 22 uA, you may have a chance to check it, just for curiosity.

Looking forward to the collapsing field's energy capture, hopefully the dual reed contact will be speedy enough not to miss too much from the event under the switchover time.  The energy stored in the series coils is given by  formula  .5*L*I2 and it remains to be seen how much energy you find ( .5*C*U2) as going  into the other phase cap from the process. 

Gyula

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #298 on: September 20, 2013, 07:33:57 AM »
I should have waited till tomorrow. lol Im beat. But I did it anyways. http://youtu.be/QyU0H_kJLxQ

My camera seems to only want to do 10min, 9min, vids then stops. I checked the menu and dont see a setting for that. And its a 4g card that is empty, so its not a mem issue I dont believe.
So I got cut off. ::) Like 4 times and redo. Ugh

Anyways, I got that over with, so future vids can concentrate on running aspects, not the build and parts if im only limited to under 10 min or whatever it is. lol  Ill figure it out when Im not so sleepy. ;)

Ok, gota git

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #299 on: September 29, 2013, 06:38:04 AM »

 

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