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Author Topic: BRAZIL - Company is building a Gravity Generator http://www.rarenergia.com.br/  (Read 83828 times)

Offline Zeitmaschine

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This is where you are completely wrong.

Much like a spaceship moving in space it requires no input energy to maintain the same speed and direction as it encounters no resistance. Only changing its' velocity requires energy.

Also wrong. A pendulum constantly changes its velocity (from zero to max) and it requires no additional input energy for that to do (friction losses disregarded).

By the way: Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter (that one with the extra coil) is basically also a two-stage oscillator (like the lever with the pendulum). Isn't that a very very odd coincidence, is it? :)

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Offline Red_Sunset

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Also wrong. A pendulum constantly changes its velocity (from zero to max) and it requires no additional input energy for that to do (friction losses disregarded).

By the way: Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter (that one with the extra coil) is basically also a two-stage oscillator (like the lever with the pendulum). Isn't that a very very odd coincidence, is it? :)

Zeit,

i am getting somewhat confused by you rapid change of objects and their relationship, akin to comparing apples with oranges with celery without explaining what is the exact connection of sameness.

The common denominator leans towards "Oscillator/Oscillation"
Why do you think that Oscillation produces excess energy and how would this excess energy materialize?
Can you demonstrate in more detail, the connection of sameness that supports your quest towards OU.  Where does each produce the excess energy ?  You may be theoretical, even assumptive, proof is not a requirement at this point

 1.. The bending swing bar
 2.. The pendulum
 3.. Milkoviz , 2 stage Osc
 4.. Kapanadze Osc
 5.. The Magnifying transmitter
 6.. The electron oscillation in the atom

Red_Sunset

Offline Zeitmaschine

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I just have pointed out a very odd coincidence. But there are some more odds and those odds are all pointing to a two-stage parametric oscillator.

1.. The bending swing bar

Swinging is one stage, bending the second stage. Hence we have a two-stage oscillator.

2.. The pendulum

The first stage of a two-stage oscillator. The second stage is not always obvious to recognize.

3.. Milkoviz , 2 stage Osc

He claims that more mechanic energy goes out than in.

4.. Kapanadze Osc

Statement of Kapanadze: »I have found a simple way to keep resonance between two coils.« An electric two-stage oscillator would fit that statement.

5.. The Magnifying transmitter

Tesla claims a magnifying effect due to the use of two coils. I would guess that his claim is the magnification of energy.

6.. The electron oscillation in the atom

Matter can be converted to energy and energy can be converted to matter (Einstein), hence matter is energy. This strongly suggests that there was once an energy field creating that matter. So what if that energy field does still exsist today and we could tap into it in some way or the other? Perhaps by means of a two-stage oscillator that creates parametric resonance?

And you forgot 7.. - The Stepanov overunity transformer. We can see nothing more than two capacitors and two transformers, but that would nevertheless be a sufficient equipment for the construction of an electric two-stage oscillator.

Bluntly speaking, I can't see any reason why someone should falsely claim overunity out of two transformers and two capacitors, all hidden in plain view. Fake? Mistake? I don't think so.

No, a pendulum (child on swing) is NOT an "energy amplifier". It stores the energy you put into it by pushing, small increments at the resonant frequency, and can build up large amplitudes representing large amounts of _stored energy_.

Exactly that's the point! When a pendulum goes into parametric oscillation (resonance) due to a second oscillator stage, then it will store all energy that it can get from whatever place. But since we have seen the electric experiment with the two Avramenko plugs, we can confirm that there is indeed a kind of an electric energy field around us. The existence of gravitation does not need confirmation, I think.

The pendulum swings like an ordinary pendulum, the lever (the second stage) is connected to gravity. Now an electric oscillator also oscillates just like an ordinary oscillator, but the second coil (the second stage) is connected to ... what? Some sort of an electric field that surrounds us?

Here just another two-stage oscillator - or rather a self-exciting radio receiver? I don't know where user elementSix got this illustration from, but if it works then the phrase »like you have opened the gates of hell« says it all. Think, I would also like to open those gates. :P

Tesla: Could we produce artificially a »sink« for the energy of the ambient medium to flow in?

Let's see: If the ambient medium in question is gravitation, then the artificial sink would be a sudden reduction (by means of a pendulum) of the weight on one side of the lever (Milkovic), so gravitation can flow in and pull down the other side of the lever. Genius, isn't it?

If done the right way, this should also work with an electric field representing Tesla's ambient medium.

BTW:

And the Finsrud machine is a clever work of art, not any kind of self running perpetual motion machine. The longest it has ever run without being "reset" is 14 days. it contains large springs and heavy weights (Look at the center of the mechanism) and runs by an escapement mechanism that extracts a tiny bit of stored energy every time the ball runs around the tilting track

Any confirmation of this, or pure guesswork? 12 years to build a simple clock mechanism would be the next odd thing, wouldn't it?

And hopefully my thoughts are not too confusing for anyone to follow. ;D

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Offline LibreEnergia

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Also wrong. A pendulum constantly changes its velocity (from zero to max) and it requires no additional input energy for that to do (friction losses disregarded).

You are correct it requires no extra input or energy. However your assumption that a mass rotating about a fixed point has more energy than if the mass were travelling in a straight line is false. Linear and angular momentum is conserved.

Consider a spaceship travelling in a straight line capturing a 'massless rigid rope' attached to a 'massless pivot' and begins to orbit.  It simply converts its linear momentum to angular momentum. No energy is gained or lost. The rope experiences a tension but no work is done by the rope as the length does not change.

Replace the 'rope' with the tensor force of gravity and you'll see you are mistaken in your assumptions.

Offline tagor

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You are correct it requires no extra input or energy. However your assumption that a mass rotating about a fixed point has more energy than if the mass were travelling in a straight line is false. Linear and angular momentum is conserved.


you are right ...
but , with equivalent energy , a rotating one is more efficient than a penduleum
because the momentum is not reverse

so the double penduleum is a very bad solution !

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Offline Red_Sunset

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.............................................................
Tesla claims a magnifying effect due to the use of two coils. I would guess that his claim is the magnification of energy.
..............................................................
Bluntly speaking, I can't see any reason why someone should falsely claim overunity ............................ Fake? Mistake? I don't think so.
..................................................................
The pendulum swings like an ordinary pendulum, the lever (the second stage) is connected to gravity. Now an electric oscillator also oscillates just like an ordinary oscillator, but the second coil (the second stage) is connected to ... what? Some sort of an electric field that surrounds us?
.........................................................
Tesla: Could we produce artificially a »sink« for the energy of the ambient medium to flow in?

.................................................................
If done the right way, this should also work with an electric field representing Tesla's ambient medium.

BTW:
Any confirmation of this, or pure guesswork? .........................................
Zeit,

Thx for clarifying your angle.  I am not in any position to tell you right or wrong,  you can read and must have seen the many attempts throughout history to achieve this illusive objective. The corridor gets longer and more doors to open come into view..

Your focus is on oscillation and in particular the 2 stages osc. As I gather the understanding of this logic is that stage1 is the initiator and stage2 is the deliverer.

Storyline:  Stage1 requires input to initiate a change,  resulting in a impulse of change for stage2.  The reaction by stage2 is not fueled by energy extraction from stage1, this energy is supposed to come from an other source.  The constraint is that the resulting energy out should be bigger than the input delivered to stage1 if you desire OU..

 Perceptions can be deceiving, therefore they don’t count. Identification of stage2 energy source is important, even if it is described by resulting observations.  This provides a better understanding of what is important.
Example (my view and debatable), the Tesla magnifying transmitter. 
I do not believe there is any free energy in this tesla oscillator device itself.  It only magnifies tension within standard known boundaries.
I think that the objective was to harvest atmospheric energy that could be derived from the transmission medium of a long distance implementation.  The tesla coil setup functions as a tickler to the static atmospheric energy medium to initiate vibration motion ,.   Once in motion, energy can be extracted.(Energy (force (charge) x distance (motion)).  The Tesla primary energy source would be the ionosphere charged by the sun in solar winds hitting the earth.  So to see the excess energy, we need to see the whole full dimension.

That dual oscillators could possible tap other energy sources, quite possible but to say that with assuredness, more observed evidential information would be needed.

That the Dual Osc is within itself OU capable,  always possible although that would require more convincing evidence from my viewpoint.

This is not a “No”, it should be an encouragement that there should be a separation between guesswork, wishful thinking, assumptions and hard evidence. Don't mix.

Regards, Red-Sunset

Offline Zeitmaschine

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Your focus is on oscillation and in particular the 2 stages osc. As I gather the understanding of this logic is that stage1 is the initiator and stage2 is the deliverer.

It seems so indeed. Thus, what do you think why are all hints (electric and mechanic) pointing to a two-stage oscillator? Isn't that curious?

Here it comes one more curious coincidence.

Why is this arrangement not working: Milkovic Pendulum and Rotation? It does not work because the lever of that replication is linked to a flywheel, hence the lever moves along a smooth sinusoidal path. However, the lever of the original Milkovic two-stage oscillator makes jerky (sharp) movements.

Quote: »Most important thing is to generate sharp pulses (triggered)« That's a hint from cosmoLV, one who allegedly knows (but is unwilling to reveal) the principle of work of the Kapanadze device.

Considering the lever and the pendulum: A pendulum converts energy constantly back and forth between kinetic energy and gravitational potential energy. Now, how should the mechanic two-stage oscillator work in the IDEAL case?

1) When the pendulum is in the horizontal position all energy is converted to potential energy, then the gravitation suddenly moves up the pivot. That means, since all energy is stored in the pendulum's bob in form of potential energy, the pendulum can't lose any energy at that point due to the pivot's up movement.

2) When the pendulum is in the vertical position all energy is converted to kinetic energy, then the gravitation suddenly moves down the pivot. That means, since all energy is stored in the pendulum's bob in form of kinetic energy, the pendulum can't lose any energy at that point due to the pivot's down movement.

So then, where is the energy coming from that moves the lever up and down? Gravity? Seems there is nothing else left.

On the other hand, if the pivot moves during the energy conversion, then that movement will interfere with it, resulting in a energy loss of the pendulum.

Therefore my (electric) problem is, how to generate sharp pulses by means of two connected LC circuits (without semiconductor or spark gap)? Driving the iron core of the second stage into saturation perhaps?

And I'm still convinced when I'm looking at the Milkovic two-state oscillator, then I'm looking at the mechanic version of the electric Tesla/Kapanadze/Stepanov two-stage oscillators.

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Offline Red_Sunset

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It seems so indeed. Thus, what do you think why are all hints (electric and mechanic) pointing to a two-stage oscillator? Isn't that curious?
Here it comes one more curious coincidence.
.......................................................
..........................................
Zeit,
I had my reservations on the accuracy of certain statements, and it became clear I overlooked something that gives your view more support. I needed to find some time to get it down on paper

So allow my mind to some logical and illogical musings,  I am open to different views
The bending of the bar is due to a greater force than just blob weight as thought initially .   The bending force is the result of the centrifugal force, in direct relationship to the blobs weight and its cord length .

So exactly where does the excess energy enter the picture and what energy is it
.
      *Zeit*  1) When the pendulum is in the horizontal position all energy is converted to potential energy, then the gravitation suddenly moves up the pivot. That means, since all energy is stored in the pendulum's bob in form of potential energy, the pendulum can't lose any energy at that point due to the pivot's up movement.

Comment;  The pivot movement influence on the blob and its new position when in the horizontal position with pivot
When the pivot moves upward when the swing reaches its maximum apex, the result must be a composite repositioning of the blob in 2 dimensions towards the pivot location.  We can assume a cord angle away from the horizontal and a inward but slightly higher positioned blob. 
 -  Potential energy adjustment impact on the blob is factional small.
 -  When the blob reaches its apex, the acceleration and gravity forces balance out and result in an apparent weightless condition.
 -  Centrifugal / centripetal forces become zero.
 -  Energy to move pivot upward is ~ zero (relatively speaking)

       *Zeit* 2) When the pendulum is in the vertical position all energy is converted to kinetic energy, then the gravitation suddenly moves down the pivot. That means, since all energy is stored in the pendulum's bob in form of kinetic energy, the pendulum can't lose any energy at that point due to the pivot's down movement.

Comment: As the blob descend towards the lowest potential energy level, the centrifugal force increases due to acceleration.  At a determined vertical point, the centrifugal force exceeds the centripetal holding force of the pivot. The pivot drops a preset distance.
As the centripetal force is interrupted, we have a vertical centrifugal force, combined with the horizontal acceleration force, results in a angled force trajectory for the blob which is arrested when the down pivot point is reached and centripetal is reinstated.
 -  The blob trajectory change means that the path followed by the blob is longer than its regular swing trajectory?.
 -  The blob would experience a temporary acceleration during the pivot drop that possibly could compensate for the longer path ?
 -  A pivot drop at the vertical will not add to energies that aid blob acceleration motion
 -  Energy exerted on the moving pivot (centrifugal force x pivot drop distance)

* Total potential energy as seen by the pendulum,  total height travel – pivot drop distance = pendulum cord length (height).
* Pivot up restore energy :  ~ zero (relative zero)
* Pivot down drop energy :  Centrifugal/ Centripetal force (not gravity directly, a derivative thereof)

Where did this excess energy come from:  centrifugal is a fictitious force but centripetal isn’t
Centripetal force = mass x velocity2 / radius :  The velocity of the blob has the most impact on the pivot force. (so critical to observe is possible reduction to velocity)
The centrifugal force had to overcome the centripetal threshold of the pivot,  energy is deposited into the pivot attachment as force x distance. To simplify your argument, we could assume that all energy due to pivot drop is invested therein from the centrifugal/centripetal force. 

Any comments……

Red_Sunset


« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 05:28:17 PM by Red_Sunset »

Offline Red_Sunset

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Addon,

The question on and how the feedback (the one we can not ignore) is regulated in the pendulum where the pivot drops.
This feedback is not so obvious and can better be described by looking at an analogous device with similar properties.
It is most unlikely that the process of transferring energy to the pivot is for free,

As the pendulum blob moves through its vertical at highest velocity and displaces its pivot, it is momentary alike to a motor with a eccentric weight. The vibration motor.
Some useful data can be found here:  http://www.precisionmicrodrives.com/application-notes-technical-guides/application-bulletins/ab-004-understanding-erm-characteristics-for-vibration-applications

Some text from the linked document describing the vibration loading (the Eccentric Rotating Mass vibration motor, or ERM)
//   As the applied voltage is increased, the vibration frequency increases proportionally, and vibration amplitude will all increase as with a square; remember that "F0", the amplitude of the centrifugal force, equals equation mrw(sq2). The ERM current is proportional to the torque ‘load’ seen by the motor. As vibration energy is taken out of the ERM system, the torque required to continue spinning the eccentric mass will increase, and so too will the current.
This explains why the current draw of a loosely held vibration motor is greater than the current draw when the same motor is clamped tightly. In the latter case, less vibration energy is being removed from the ERM system.  //

Vibration load is nothing more than the pivot (shaft) taking an off center path, similar than the bending pivot.  Only imagine the pendulum to rotate 360 dgr, the offset pivot will do the same.

It is not clear how exactly the loading takes place (how it transferred), it can only by impacting the rotation speed of the motor and result in increased current,  this would equal the pendulum blob velocity.  The blob would more rapidly come to a stop !.
So the pivot dropping must impact the velocity, contrary to earlier reasoning
Something to focus on.

Red_Sunset


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Offline Zeitmaschine

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The centrifugal force had to overcome the centripetal threshold of the pivot, energy is deposited into the pivot attachment as force x distance. To simplify your argument, we could assume that all energy due to pivot drop is invested therein from the centrifugal/centripetal force.

In my understanding the weight of the pendulum should be enough to move the pivot downwards. I'm not sure if centrifugal force is necessary. The weight of the pendulum is zero on its horizontal position and back to normal (plus centrifugal force) on its vertical position. Zero weight moves the pivot up because of the lever's overbalance on its opposite side. The pendulum's normal weight moves the lever down because the lever's overbalance is now on the pendulum's side. So it is beneficial to have a centrifugal force in addition to the pendulum's weight, but it is not required in order to get the movement of the lever.

Vibration load is nothing more than the pivot (shaft) taking an off center path, similar than the bending pivot. Only imagine the pendulum to rotate 360 dgr, the offset pivot will do the same.

It is not clear how exactly the loading takes place (how it transferred), it can only by impacting the rotation speed of the motor and result in increased current, this would equal the pendulum blob velocity. The blob would more rapidly come to a stop !.
So the pivot dropping must impact the velocity, contrary to earlier reasoning
Something to focus on.

I think the overlooked point here is the abruptness of the pivot's movement. A motor with an eccentric weight performs a linear function (like the wooden flywheel in the image above). The Milkovic two-state oscillator does not. The pendulum and the lever are nonlinear in their interaction. The pendulum's sinusoidal movement results in a binary on-off state, the lever goes abruptly up or down. Practically that should make a huge difference. The pendulum converts energy loss-less between potential and kinetic energy (disregarding friction). When that conversion is completed during each cycle (in horizontal and vertical position) then a movement of the pivot at that time should not take any energy out of the pendulum.

Of course, when we want to excite a pendulum parametrically then the usual way to do this is to move the bob (not the pivot!) up a bit (not down) when it swings through its vertical position. We shorten the string at vertical and we extend the string at horizontal in order to excite the pendulum. That would suggest at first glance that moving down the pivot at vertical would dampen the pendulum (contrary to exciting it). But moving the pivot is completely different from moving just the bob up and down, because shorten the string in vertical position and extending it in horizontal position (for parametric excitation) means the bob moves along a smaller radius the complete way till it reaches its horizontal position and it moves along a larger radius the complete way till it swings back to its vertical position. Whereas a movement of the pivot (during bob's vertical or horizontal position only) does not change the radius of the bob's path when the conversion of energy takes place.

Conclusion: Changing the length of the string does change the radius of the bob's path, hence changing the bob's velocity, hence exciting or damping the pendulum respectively. Changing the vertical position of the pivot does not change the radius of the bob's path, hence not changing the bob's velocity, hence not exciting or damping the pendulum respectively.

Seems that matter becomes more and more complicated as we look deeper and deeper into it. :)

Offline Zeitmaschine

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Addon:

Why is abruptness important?

When we want to get energy from the environment (what ever that may be), we need to create an energy sink (Tesla) on an oscillating basis. Oscillating means, that the energy in the system is constantly converted back and forth between two forms of energy. In doing so, we should strictly avoid that the energy from the environment (e.g. gravitation) is permanently working against that ongoing conversion process. The energy of the environment is allowed only to get into the system when the process of conversation has finished and the energy sink has been created. As soon as that environmental energy is in our system (flowed towards our sink) we have to convert it into a different form of energy (thus the oscillation), because we have to renew the sink in order to get more energy flowing in from the environment.

That's why we need a) something oscillating and b) something switching abruptly.

Just my two cents. :D

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Offline Red_Sunset

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Addon:
Why is abruptness important?
...........................................................
....................................
That's why we need a) something oscillating and b) something switching abruptly.
Just my two cents. :D

Zeit,
I had some time to think about the problem. I think you are somewhat too optimistic in getting to your desired result by taking giant steps.  Wanting to see a specific result can cloud your good judgment when the devil is in the details. It it wasn’t , Milkovic would have already a standalone energy generator running and cranking out clean power.
He obviously hasn’t and there must be a reason why !!  So there is still hope

In the pendulum movement, gravity is dominant at 3 & 9 o’clock and centrifugal is dominant at 6 o’clock. My analogy was not to be understood in a 360dgrs rotation, rather in a limited quadrant only.  What happens in the pendulum quadrant around 6 o’clock with a moving pivot is the same as what happens in a rotary quadrant of an eccentric vibration setup.  Sure in the pendulum we have to consider acceleration and de-acceleration rather than constant velocity.   This analogy was only a quick way to demonstrate that deviating an eccentric weight of an initial path entails into some penalty. ( you could compare the penalty to Lenz for argument purpose).

Lets assume a rotating mass, rotating without path deviation, making nice circles ‘vs ‘ a rotating mass that at some point momentary deviates from the nice circular path and returns to continue on the circular path.  Would the rotation be impacted by the deviation ?  Would the rotation time be the same for both ?.

This deviation forces can be represented in a vector drawing, showing the forces the blob experiences in it travel and so clarify the impact of the pivot change.  For the pendulum, the impact will be different relative to the gravity direction and  acceleration / de-acceleration / constant motion .  This analysis will also pinpoint the best position to allow abrupt movement for best impact.
I don’t have all the time yet to put it all together.
Red

Referring to your addon, 
Abrupt....The ideal time window to drop the pivot is exactly at vertical when gravity lost all influence over acceleration.  Ideal time to supplement the gravity force with the centrifugal force (by untie-ing  the centripetal force) for maximum force impact on the pivot without influencing the motion of pendulum mass.

Offline Zeitmaschine

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I don’t have all the time yet to put it all together.

So essentially you saying, that you have no final idea how the forces here are interacting with each other, but you are quite sure that the outcome can't be any surplus energy!?

Interesting!!

Milkovic himself maybe does not know how this works and why. Therefore he couldn't yet make a self-runner (Bessler could).

Apropos Bessler: What if we connect two pendulums together, so when one is in weightless state (horizontal) the other is in full weight state (vertical)? Could the resulting imbalance be used to drive a wheel continuously?

Just an odd idea ... ::)

Offline Red_Sunset

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The moving pivot creates a negative phase shift in the direction of forces.
.............................................
..............................................................
When going down the moving pivot slows down the conversion value of gravity into rotation.
These are not so easy to see unless you know to look for them.
Hi webby,
Thanks for for sharing your observation, you are right that it is so easily to overlook an aspect that only becomes obvious once you know it.

Quote
When we want to get energy from the environment (what ever that may be), we need to create an energy sink (Tesla) on an oscillating basis. Oscillating means, that the energy in the system is constantly converted back and forth between two forms of energy. In doing so, we should strictly avoid that the energy from the environment (e.g. gravitation) is permanently working against that ongoing conversion process. The energy of the environment is allowed only to get into the system when the process of conversation has finished and the energy sink has been created. As soon as that environmental energy is in our system (flowed towards our sink) we have to convert it into a different form of energy (thus the oscillation), because we have to renew the sink in order to get more energy flowing in from the environment.
That's why we need a) something oscillating and b) something switching abruptly.
.................................
................................
So essentially you saying, that you have no final idea how the forces here are interacting with each other, but you are quite sure that the outcome can't be any surplus energy!?
Interesting!!
Milkovic himself maybe does not know how this works and why. Therefore he couldn't yet make a self-runner (Bessler could).
Zeit,
I am not disagreeing with you, on the contrary,  I am in full agreement.
You are right that "I have no final idea how ALL the forces here are interacting with each other" because there is the big question of "something",  that is unresolved !

This "something" is also stopping Milkovic,  I bet he knows exactly how this works and why, and all pointers let us believe that he just hasn't been able to overcome this "something".  He developed this configuration purposely so he would be quite familiar with it.
Can this "something" be overcome ? and allow the sequence of energy flows as you have logically laid out in your hypothesis be implemented is the BIG question.  Never say no, this is the main reason why we are discussion this on this forum, I guess.

A general hypothesis is good for guidance into a specific direction,  it is then up to a detailed investigative process (since the devil is in the details) that will after the usual refining procedures will bring it closer to possible solution.  The solution might not always be the solution we are looking for.

For me to say "I am sure that the outcome can't be any surplus energy!" is preempting the investigation.  I am not sure about anything until I can positively identify a factual process with a result that theoretically point to a high probability.  The practical test will then confirm if the derived theory is correct or not.

At this point, there are still too many blocking issues that need to be resolved before the fat lady sings.

Red_Sunset


 

Offline Zeitmaschine

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When going down the moving pivot slows down the conversion value of gravity into rotation.

Exactly! And that is why - as I mentioned earlier -  the pivot should only move when the conversion process of gravity into rotation has finished (in the vertical position).

A general hypothesis is good for guidance into a specific direction,  it is then up to a detailed investigative process (since the devil is in the details) that will after the usual refining procedures will bring it closer to possible solution.  The solution might not always be the solution we are looking for.

More investigation: A spark is something that occurs abruptly. Now we connect high voltage AC (the secondary of a transformer) on one side to an antenna and on the other side to a piece of metal. What happens? Nothing, because the electric circuit is not closed, hence no current is flowing in the secondary coil. Then we put a spark gap between the coil and the piece of metal (see illustration). Suddenly sparking occurs, hence a current flows through the wire although the circuit is still open. Because of that always open circuit, the transformer's primary draws constantly the same idle current, regardless whether sparking occurs or not (shorted spark gap). So, where is the energy coming from, that creates that sparking?

The spark fires when the voltage (measured against the metal) is highest. That is on the sine wave's positive or negative peak. That peak correlates with the horizontal (weightless) position of a pendulum (at which the lever »fires«).

Thus, a lot more (odd coincidences) to investigate, I think. :P

 

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