Language:
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

Custom Search

Author Topic: BRAZIL - Company is building a Gravity Generator http://www.rarenergia.com.br/  (Read 104893 times)

Red_Sunset

• Hero Member
• Posts: 548
Re: BRAZIL - Company is building a Gravity Generator http://www.rarenergia.com.br/
« Reply #75 on: May 15, 2015, 03:16:25 PM »
An excentrical flywheel (vibrator driven by a motor) has absolutely nothing to do with the state of weightlessness of a pendulum's bob!

This is another wrong statement. At the turning point of the bob there is nothing. No weight, no centrifugal force, no centripetal force. The bob (even if a few tons) hovers in zero gravity for a moment in time. And essentially that's the kick when swinging in a children's swing.

Then how do you explain the principle of work of the Finsrud and the Milkovic devices? They are proven to generate OU.

As we can see, the magic fortunately does not disappear.

Zeit,

It looks we have some crossed wires,
I agree,  the vibrator has nothing to do with the pendulum, but the moving pivot has.
What was the issue ? the topic was a bending bar !.  The weightlessness of the bob is not the focus, because that is not moment when the bar was bending.  The bar was bending when the bob is at maximum velocity as it passes the vertical.  Only at that point do you have a bend bar and displaced pivot, only that displaced pivot point (bending bar) was of interest and in focus.

The Finsrud and Milkovic are an other chapters for discussion, I didn't go there.

Red_Sunset

Zeitmaschine

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1267
Re: BRAZIL - Company is building a Gravity Generator http://www.rarenergia.com.br/
« Reply #76 on: May 15, 2015, 06:20:05 PM »
The bar was bending when the bob is at maximum velocity as it passes the vertical.  Only at that point do you have a bend bar and displaced pivot, only that displaced pivot point (bending bar) was of interest and in focus.

So then what's the problem? Bending that bar and releasing it needs energy. Where is that energy coming from?

Assuming there is no friction, then if we release the bob of a pendulum at height X, it will swing exactly to the same height X on the opposite side, regardless whether the beam with the pivot bends or not, because it does not matter whether the path of the bob is exactly circular or not.

Physics

MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
Re: BRAZIL - Company is building a Gravity Generator http://www.rarenergia.com.br/
« Reply #77 on: May 15, 2015, 08:16:24 PM »
So then what's the problem? Bending that bar and releasing it needs energy. Where is that energy coming from?

Assuming there is no friction, then if we release the bob of a pendulum at height X, it will swing exactly to the same height X on the opposite side, regardless whether the beam with the pivot bends or not, because it does not matter whether the path of the bob is exactly circular or not.

Physics
The ball never becomes weightless.  At its apogee the ball's velocity reaches zero.  At the bottom of its travel the acceleration is zero.

Zeitmaschine

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1267
Re: BRAZIL - Company is building a Gravity Generator http://www.rarenergia.com.br/
« Reply #78 on: May 15, 2015, 09:05:25 PM »
The ball never becomes weightless.  At its apogee the ball's velocity reaches zero.  At the bottom of its travel the acceleration is zero.

Strange. The ball goes into freefall (accelerating at a rate of 9.8 m/s/s) after reaching its apex (although a minimum of deflection occurs already at the beginning) and to the best of my knowledge a body in freefall is weightless.

Red_Sunset

• Hero Member
• Posts: 548
Re: BRAZIL - Company is building a Gravity Generator http://www.rarenergia.com.br/
« Reply #79 on: May 15, 2015, 09:22:45 PM »
Strange. The ball goes into freefall (accelerating at a rate of 9.8 m/s/s) after reaching its apex (although a minimum of deflection occurs already at the beginning) and to the best of my knowledge a body in freefall is weightless.

Zeit,
I am getting somewhat confused by diverging pointers
Lets recalibrate, I understood that the topic was "what energy is causing that periodic bending of that beam? Does God know?"
Expand on your reasoning why we land up with "a bowl and one olive" and the weight thereof.
How can we translate this to the bending beam & possibly free unaccounted energy?

Can you expand your logic somewhat to make better sense of where you are intending to go.

Red_Sunset

Zeitmaschine

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1267
Re: BRAZIL - Company is building a Gravity Generator http://www.rarenergia.com.br/
« Reply #80 on: May 15, 2015, 09:50:46 PM »
Expand on your reasoning why we land up with "a bowl and one olive" and the weight thereof.

This is because the ball in the bowl behaves like a pendulum. It is a pendulum without a string.

The Finsrud and Milkovic are an other chapters for discussion, I didn't go there.

Milkovic is a short trip to go. Explanation:

2 is a lever rotating around the pivot 3 and normally it rests on the left side on the anvil 1 due to the overbalance on that side.

Supposed a weight of 10 Kg is needed on the right side to move the left side up. Then each time we want to do a hit with that lever against the anvil we have to push down the right side with a force of 10 Kg and then release it.

Now we attach a 10 Kg weight 4 to that right side. Then the left side of the lever comes up and stays there. But we are to lazy to remove that weight each time we want back the overbalance on the left side in order to hit against the anvil.

Hence we swing that 10 Kg weight like a pendulum. Each time the pendulum reaches one of its upper positions, the 10 Kg weight becomes weightless and therefore the lever hits the anvil due to the momentarily regained overbalance on the left side.

All energy we need to do this is the energy needed to overcome the friction of the pendulum (instead of removing that 10 kg weight).

Any further questions?

minnie

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1244
Re: BRAZIL - Company is building a Gravity Generator http://www.rarenergia.com.br/
« Reply #81 on: May 15, 2015, 10:10:42 PM »

What you need is a brachistochrone!!

Red_Sunset

• Hero Member
• Posts: 548
Re: BRAZIL - Company is building a Gravity Generator http://www.rarenergia.com.br/
« Reply #82 on: May 15, 2015, 10:36:02 PM »
This is because the ball in the bowl behaves like a pendulum. It is a pendulum without a string.
Milkovic is a short trip to go. Explanation:
....................................................
................................................
Any further questions?

The pendulum topic has been investigated quite thoroughly over the past years.
My further question:   and now, what do we do  ?

Red_Sunset

• Hero Member
• Posts: 548
Re: BRAZIL - Company is building a Gravity Generator http://www.rarenergia.com.br/
« Reply #83 on: May 16, 2015, 07:48:37 AM »
An eccentrically flywheel (vibrator driven by a motor) has absolutely nothing to do with the state of weightlessness of a pendulum's bob!
This is another wrong statement. At the turning point of the bob there is nothing. No weight, no centrifugal force, no centripetal force. The bob (even if a few tons) hovers in zero gravity for a moment in time. And essentially that's the kick when swinging in a children's swing.
Then how do you explain the principle of work of the Finsrud and the Milkovic devices? They are proven to generate OU.
As we can see, the magic fortunately does not disappear.

Zeit,

What energy is causing that periodic bending of that beam?

Let me get back to my reply #72,  where the main point of the post was to link the moving pivot pendulum to the eccentric motor which I gather was not wholly understood.  No complicated math, just plain logic

Let me expand in layman's terms,
The pendulum can be seen as sling (weapon) when used in rotary fashion. It sure is now no pendulum any longer but the centrifugal and centripetal physical properties are the same as the pendulum when the weight is at a certain velocity. At that point the rotating sling shot finds equivalency to a motor with an eccentric weight (your standard vibrator).
When loosely mounted vibrator axle makes a circular path during the eccentric weight rotation, the radius of this circle is equivalent to "bending top bar".
What effectively happens is the the rotational radius path of the eccentric weight is no longer the radius as with a fixed axis position, it is now "weight radius + axle radius".  The effect rotating weight radius has now expanded and therewith stores more energy.  That energy comes from the shaft.
This is easy to proof by measuring the current consumption of a small vibrator motor, holding the motor fixed, versus allowing it to vibrate.
No complicated math, just plain logic, "Vibration consumes more input power" = "Bending of the beam consumes more input power "

Greetings, Red_Sunset

MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
Re: BRAZIL - Company is building a Gravity Generator http://www.rarenergia.com.br/
« Reply #84 on: May 16, 2015, 09:38:32 AM »
Strange. The ball goes into freefall (accelerating at a rate of 9.8 m/s/s) after reaching its apex (although a minimum of deflection occurs already at the beginning) and to the best of my knowledge a body in freefall is weightless.
Yes, I agree for the one instant at the start of the fall, it accelerates at 1G and there is no apparent reaction force, IE it is weightless at that one instant.

MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
Re: BRAZIL - Company is building a Gravity Generator http://www.rarenergia.com.br/
« Reply #85 on: May 16, 2015, 09:50:40 AM »
This is because the ball in the bowl behaves like a pendulum. It is a pendulum without a string.

Milkovic is a short trip to go. Explanation:

2 is a lever rotating around the pivot 3 and normally it rests on the left side on the anvil 1 due to the overbalance on that side.

Supposed a weight of 10 Kg is needed on the right side to move the left side up. Then each time we want to do a hit with that lever against the anvil we have to push down the right side with a force of 10 Kg and then release it.

Now we attach a 10 Kg weight 4 to that right side. Then the left side of the lever comes up and stays there. But we are to lazy to remove that weight each time we want back the overbalance on the left side in order to hit against the anvil.

Hence we swing that 10 Kg weight like a pendulum. Each time the pendulum reaches one of its upper positions, the 10 Kg weight becomes weightless and therefore the lever hits the anvil due to the momentarily regained overbalance on the left side.

All energy we need to do this is the energy needed to overcome the friction of the pendulum (instead of removing that 10 kg weight).

Any further questions?
The two-stage oscillators have been analyzed to death.  Reactive energy transfers back and forth through between different parts of the device.  However, those transfers do not perform external work.  As soon as any external load is applied to one of these contraptions, they load down just like any other machine.

Zeitmaschine

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1267
Re: BRAZIL - Company is building a Gravity Generator http://www.rarenergia.com.br/
« Reply #86 on: May 16, 2015, 11:50:04 AM »
The pendulum can be seen as sling (weapon) when used in rotary fashion. It sure is now no pendulum any longer but the centrifugal and centripetal physical properties are the same as the pendulum when the weight is at a certain velocity. At that point the rotating sling shot finds equivalency to a motor with an eccentric weight (your standard vibrator).

[...]

No complicated math, just plain logic, "Vibration consumes more input power" = "Bending of the beam consumes more input power "

As I said before: A standard vibrator has not the slightest thing to do with a bob's weight hovering in zero gravity. Hence that discussion is useless.

The two-stage oscillators have been analyzed to death. Reactive energy transfers back and forth through between different parts of the device. However, those transfers do not perform external work.

Then by analyzing to death the two-stage oscillators, what was the result why this Finsrud »perpetuum mobile« (in brackets!) is obviously working? It performs external work by means of pendulums!

And what was the result why this Milkovic mechanical amplifier is obviously also working? Especially that with the 9 generator flashlights (around 18:00). Do you know how tiring it is to continuously press and release one such a generator flashlight for just a minute or two by hand? Here Milkovic presses 9 flashlight at once without effort!

If there is no result of that analysis, then I have to assume that »analyzed to death« means »convincing people that something can't work, even if they see it working right in front of their own eyes.«

As it seems ...

Red_Sunset

• Hero Member
• Posts: 548
Re: BRAZIL - Company is building a Gravity Generator http://www.rarenergia.com.br/
« Reply #87 on: May 16, 2015, 01:36:35 PM »
As I said before: A standard vibrator has not the slightest thing to do with a bob's weight hovering in zero gravity. Hence that discussion is useless.

Then by analyzing to death the two-stage oscillators, what was the result why this Finsrud »perpetuum mobile« (in brackets!) is obviously working? It performs external work by means of pendulums!

And what was the result why this Milkovic mechanical amplifier is obviously also working? Especially that with the 9 generator flashlights (around 18:00). Do you know how tiring it is to continuously press and release one such a generator flashlight for just a minute or two by hand? Here Milkovic presses 9 flashlight at once without effort!

If there is no result of that analysis, then I have to assume that »analyzed to death« means »convincing people that something can't work, even if they see it working right in front of their own eyes.«

As it seems ...

Zeit,

The Milkovic pendulum setup is brilliant as a idea and system.  I can not say anything about the principle and machine demonstrated than I have already said.  I am not for or against. The logical conclusion I shared might be correct or maybe not, in the meantime there is nothing more persuasive out there to convince me otherwise.

We have here a similar situation as we have with the RARenergia gravity generator.  The inventor does not provide a positive conclusion for outputting power in a standalone configuration.
The Milkovic youtube link you posted is from 2011 where he confirms positive energy gain. None of the subsequent video's show anything that confirms a standalone system cranking power.   In a video of 3 months ago, I still see him pushing a pendulum with his finger.
All the information relating to the invention was publicly shared and there must have been many replications.  I have not seen a pendulum that is maintained by its own output.  Are they all still pushing with their finger the pendulum?
What do you want me to believe at this point ?   My "self proposed logic" is starting to convince myself of its accuracy.

I have not written off the invention, i still think it is brilliant but I need a more convincing logic or demonstration to say, "yes that is it".
So until then, we keep it pending.

If you have something more, I definitely would like to hear more.

Regards,  Red_Sunset

Zeitmaschine

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1267
Re: BRAZIL - Company is building a Gravity Generator http://www.rarenergia.com.br/
« Reply #88 on: May 16, 2015, 02:44:05 PM »
I have not written off the invention, i still think it is brilliant but I need a more convincing logic or demonstration to say, "yes that is it".

What convinces me is, that there is proof that science is not interested in any free accessible energy source. That proof is the Finsrud »perpetuum mobile« standing around in a museum in a glass cabinet instead in a scientific laboratory in order to find out its operating principle. Or I'm wrong? Did someone hear anything in the mass media about the Finsrud »perpetuum mobile«? Actually that thing should be on all headlines. Instead it is »hidden« in a museum like some age-old machinery e.g. the first telegraph.

Strange isn't it?

Zeitmaschine

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1267
Re: BRAZIL - Company is building a Gravity Generator http://www.rarenergia.com.br/
« Reply #89 on: May 16, 2015, 07:45:44 PM »
Apropos:

The two-stage oscillators have been analyzed to death.

Isn't that odd: The Stepanov setup (claiming OU) consists of two transformers and two capacitors, meaning two oscillation frequencies - like a (mechanical) two-stage oscillator.

Now should I believe here in an odd coincidence?