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Author Topic: Big try at gravity wheel  (Read 635084 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #1305 on: April 03, 2014, 04:03:23 AM »
But that silly Floating Point got you, too. One of yours seems to have floated away.

Quote
...fusing 600 million tons of hydrogen into 596 tons of helium. 

That's even better than Rossi is doing!


Offline lumen

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #1306 on: April 03, 2014, 06:08:12 AM »
The useful work that can be extracted from gravity here on earth is in tidal power harvesting.  The relative movement of the moon cyclically pulls on the enormous volume and mass of the seas.  Harvesting the tides would only very slightly slow down the rotation of the moon around the earth.

I'm not sure about this, but if the moon rotates prograde and slower than the earths rotation, then wouldn't any additional connection of energy from the earth to the moon tend to accelerate the moon while slowing the earths rotation?

Offline MarkE

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #1307 on: April 03, 2014, 06:12:38 AM »
It slows them relative to each other.  In terms of an external reference like the sun or some distant point in the cosmos, the earth will be seen to slow but only by a small fraction of the percentage that the moon slows.

Offline Marsing

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #1308 on: April 03, 2014, 03:29:23 PM »
The useful work that can be extracted from gravity here on earth is in tidal power harvesting.  The relative movement of the moon cyclically pulls on the enormous volume and mass of the seas.  Harvesting the tides would only very slightly slow down the rotation of the moon around the earth.

sounds good, you have admitted that there is usefull energy from gravity.    ;D

Offline lumen

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #1309 on: April 03, 2014, 03:46:01 PM »
It slows them relative to each other.  In terms of an external reference like the sun or some distant point in the cosmos, the earth will be seen to slow but only by a small fraction of the percentage that the moon slows.

They would slow relative to each other seems correct.

From an external point, the earth's rotation would slow and the moon would accelerate as is already the case. I believe the moon's orbit radius in constantly increasing already from the tidal drag pulling the moon faster.  (slower from earth's view point)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #1310 on: April 03, 2014, 10:46:54 PM »
sounds good, you have admitted that there is usefull energy from gravity.    ;D
Sure... just like there is useful money in a bank.

But how did the money get into the bank in the first place, and what happens when you withdraw it? Or try to withdraw more than you have on deposit?

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #1311 on: April 04, 2014, 12:07:27 AM »
sounds good, you have admitted that there is usefull energy from gravity.    ;D

Not quite.  The energy actually comes from a change in angular momentum.  MarkE did not go down to that level.  Think leap seconds.

There is a certain amount of angular kinetic energy in the solar system.  The planets and the sun are rotating on their axes.  Then the planets in their respective orbits also have momentum also.  Think gravitational sling-shot.

There is even another form of potential energy where you can "fall out" of the solar system and head out into deep space.

Fascinating.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #1312 on: April 04, 2014, 12:41:34 AM »
sounds good, you have admitted that there is usefull energy from gravity.    ;D
When did I ever say that one could not extract the energy in a change of GPE: once? 

Offline camelherder49

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #1313 on: April 04, 2014, 12:45:56 AM »
My question did not involve how the water got into
a reservoir. The hydrology cycle takes care of that
very efficiently. Water recycling on earth is a given.

Water that falls into the great lakes region that passes
thru Niagra Falls moves from higher to lower elevations
by gravity other wise is would be static.

Water that falls into the City of New Orleans is static and moves from
lower elevation to higher elevation by a series of large pumps.

Obviously the water in New Orleans had no where to fall
but yet is was created by the same sun.

If a ball is dropped from a plane gravity crashes it to
the ground. If you pour a glass of water out of a plane
then the sun causes it to crash to the ground.


Offline MarkE

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #1314 on: April 04, 2014, 01:23:52 AM »
My question did not involve how the water got into
a reservoir. The hydrology cycle takes care of that
very efficiently. Water recycling on earth is a given.

Water that falls into the great lakes region that passes
thru Niagra Falls moves from higher to lower elevations
by gravity other wise is would be static.

Water that falls into the City of New Orleans is static and moves from
lower elevation to higher elevation by a series of large pumps.

Obviously the water in New Orleans had no where to fall
but yet is was created by the same sun.

If a ball is dropped from a plane gravity crashes it to
the ground. If you pour a glass of water out of a plane
then the sun causes it to crash to the ground.
And once any of those things have fallen, the GPE is expended.  It is gone it is kaput.  If you want the opportunity to extract GPE again, you have to supply the energy to rebuild the GPE.  In doing so you will expend more restoring the GPE than you harvested.

Offline camelherder49

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #1315 on: April 04, 2014, 01:54:51 AM »
True. But the original question can gravity cause
energy generation is not being answered.
Why is it so hard to admit that gravity causes
water to fall when presented the opportunity.
With the hydrology cycle supplying the energy
it still does not prevent gravity causing the
water to fall.


Offline MarkE

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #1316 on: April 04, 2014, 09:52:34 AM »
True. But the original question can gravity cause
energy generation is not being answered.
Why is it so hard to admit that gravity causes
water to fall when presented the opportunity.
With the hydrology cycle supplying the energy
it still does not prevent gravity causing the
water to fall.
It's just amazing to watch these sorts of pretzel logic struggles.  The Incobrasa machine like the fraudulent claims of Wayne Travis purports to obtain energy from cyclically lifting and lowering weights.  Because gravity is a conservative field, the harvestable energy lowering those weights in one part of a cycle must be paid back restoring them to their original potential in another part of the cycle yielding no net energy.

There are two choices: harvest once, IE non-cyclically, such as dragging the moon and thus ultimately lowering its orbit, or obtain energy from something else that then provides the GPE to harvest, such as sunlight evaporating sea water.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #1317 on: April 04, 2014, 12:18:53 PM »
@camelherder:

Gravity does not "cause" energy generation. Does a bank "cause" money generation? No, it does not. Gravity, or rather difference in gravitational potential, is an energy storage mechanism, just like a bank is a money storage mechanism.

Unlike banks, though, gravity doesn't pay interest on deposits. You get out what you put in, minus losses, nothing more. Gravity does not cause energy generation!

Gravity only "causes" water to fall, if there is a lower place for the water to fall to. It's not the gravity that causes the fall, it's the difference in gravitational potential between where the water is, and where it's going to fall to.

Offline mrwayne

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #1318 on: April 04, 2014, 01:17:30 PM »
The Incobrasa machine like the fraudulent claims of Wayne Travis purports to obtain energy from cyclically lifting and lowering weights. 

LOL........Mark you have a personal problem. That is Amazing...

Where did I claim to be lifting and lowering weights. Where have you proven I am a fraud.

Your false statements are the proof of your fraud.


Offline mrwayne

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #1319 on: April 04, 2014, 01:22:53 PM »
@camelherder:

Gravity does not "cause" energy generation. Does a bank "cause" money generation? No, it does not. Gravity, or rather difference in gravitational potential, is an energy storage mechanism, just like a bank is a money storage mechanism.

Unlike banks, though, gravity doesn't pay interest on deposits. You get out what you put in, minus losses, nothing more. Gravity does not cause energy generation!

Gravity only "causes" water to fall, if there is a lower place for the water to fall to. It's not the gravity that causes the fall, it's the difference in gravitational potential between where the water is, and where it's going to fall to.

I was just thinking how gravity is utilized to change course and accelerate travel in our solar system.

We use it to reduce costs - not a bad idea, probably a science around that idea.