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Author Topic: Big try at gravity wheel  (Read 594437 times)

Offline nfeijo

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #90 on: November 24, 2013, 11:25:07 AM »
Yesterday, Sunday, there was a half a page add in the biggest newspaper in Rio de Janeiro, page 32, O Globo. It said that Rarenergia is selling an engine moved by gravity. I brought this picture from their site, www.rarenergia.com.br.

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #90 on: November 24, 2013, 11:25:07 AM »

Offline nfeijo

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #91 on: November 24, 2013, 01:24:32 PM »
This is the ad.

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #92 on: November 25, 2013, 08:52:10 PM »
This is the ad.

@nfeijo: thank you for posting the mysterious advertisment.

The same drawing can be seen here: http://www.rarenergia.com.br/imagem54a.jpg , http://www.rarenergia.com.br/imagem53a.jpg

The machine in Brasilia seems to be built http://www.rarenergia.com.br/imagem52a.JPG .
A second one in the USA in Gilmam - Illinois is in the beginning stages http://www.rarenergia.com.br/gilman%20oficial%2012%20eng.JPG .

Very strange, it looks like we have to wait at least till the second machine is completed. I wonder if we ever get useful information?

It is incredibly optimistic to build two machines which seem to be quite expensive. Some one is either very foolish or very convinced that it will work. Let's hope this machine is not fading away without trace. I really would like to know whether that contraption works.

There is an axle which obviously has to be turned to set the gigantic thing into motion, but the photos and drawings do not yet indicate any drive motor. If it really works, it could be started by hand with a huge crank. The thing can definitely kill someone who comes too close.

Greetings, Conrad


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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #92 on: November 25, 2013, 08:52:10 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline nfeijo

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #93 on: November 25, 2013, 09:54:24 PM »
Yes, Conrad, this is a big mistery. The guy is very, very rich and has five patents in his name. He made his money himself, what proves he is not stupid. And he spent all this cash building two big machines. How someone who is not dumb would waste his money this way ? I called them in Porto Alegre - I live in Rio de Janeiro, about 1600 km far - asking to see the machine working. They told me I had to wait, they were busy demonstrating the machine to other people. I really do not understand what is happening. I am working in this OU field for thirteen years now, but I never tried anything using gravity, because I do not believe there is any chance there. Maybe someone can go to Illinois and see personally.
My best regards,
Ney

Offline lota

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #94 on: November 26, 2013, 08:33:06 PM »

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #94 on: November 26, 2013, 08:33:06 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline PiCéd

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #95 on: November 27, 2013, 01:01:11 PM »
I don't know but I wonder if they do the confusion with electrostatic, to see a big trick like that if it realy work it is not by the gravity.

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #96 on: November 27, 2013, 01:13:53 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtb9fi7Ku14

@lota: nice try, I like the idea to use "meccano".

Here I identified the patent which is most likely relevant: http://www.overunity.com/13480/big-try-at-gravity-wheel/msg359666/#msg359666

But you might know that already.

The most important question is whether they need a motor to run the machine. I would be more inclined to believe in the machine if it only needs a motor to be started and then takes over by itself.

If the machine needs a motor constantly it will be a difficult case of establishing good input/output measurements and people will argue forever.

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #96 on: November 27, 2013, 01:13:53 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline nfeijo

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #97 on: November 27, 2013, 02:14:27 PM »
*Incobrasa Industries, Inc.
 540 E. US Highway 24, POB 98, Gilman, IL 60938
 Phone: 815-265-4803
 Fax: 815-265-8082
 Email: Kathy_merkle@incobrasa.com
 

Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #98 on: November 30, 2013, 07:36:52 PM »
More images in the RAR website.


www.­rarenergia.­com.­br[/color][/font]


Scroll down to the bottom of the page for the latest.

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #98 on: November 30, 2013, 07:36:52 PM »
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Offline Red_Sunset

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #99 on: December 02, 2013, 10:02:25 AM »
I've been following this for months, and trying to figure out how it works. I think I can see the principle:
 - The position where the weight is carried on the down / up strokes is different.
 - The linkage to the weight changes from the 'arm', to the 'big silver bearing'
 - On the down stroke - the weight is held via the arm
 - On the up stroke - the weight is held by the bearing

 - It is not a 'soybean crusher', or any other kind of normal machine, that's for sure.

If it's a hoax - it's a very expensive, kinda pointless one.

The Renato Ribeiro mechanical motion energy generation machine
A viewpoint
The system principle applied in this machine by Renato is very well thought out and many working details can be discerned from the detailed photo’s presented. I thank the designer for sharing his brilliant mind with this innovation so we can al advance in knowledge to the benefit of mankind.

System shown
What Ribeiro showed in his picture is that the (large) system is an evolutionary flow of refining this larger version model. I would guess that it is to a certain degree different to the initial “prove of concept” model. We need to keep in mind that the construction scope changes dramatically when you need to move heavy weights at a certain rapid speed. Moving unsymmetrical weights at some speed is no easy matter. Remember energy quantity is proportional to force(weight) & distance per time unit. The “per time unit” is speed or cycles per minute.
The American model shown to be build appears to be the same than the latest (improved) Brazilian model.

The overunity approach
The required concept for any over-unity system is to have a greater energy return than what needs to be provided to keep the system cycling.  Therefore, the energy to lift a weight must be smaller than the energy returned during decent or said differently, the return energy must be bigger than the lift energy. This can not be done by a straight forward linear physics process as the symmetry of standard physics prohibits this.
Therefore the process choosen between lift and descend has to alter so that the equation is no longer symmetrical, to do this a different natural aspect must be applied between the up & down parts of the cycle ( the physics presentation must be different to get a different outcome).
 You basically need for an OU system to mess around with the physical process so that the “up” formula is different to the “down” formula (to achieve asymmetry). This messing around should not cost you more that you can gain, because we aiming to achieve a positive outcome balance sheet.  This is were innovation is required.

The Ribeiro overunity principle used
The principle used by Ribeiro to achieve energy gain is as follows (and I am open for possible correction and other viewpoints).
For the system to work, the upstroke should take less energy than the down stroke. To achieve this, the weight is levered down using a ~2x lever advantage. The weight is lifted using a 1x lever advantage. The travel height for the weight in both strokes is the same and this is where the advantage / gain is (and Ribeiro ingenuity was applied)
 
1.. Weight down stroke uses the extended lever effect (~2x distance x weight, being the parallelogram (roberval) and triangle distance from the fixed frame hinge)
2.. Weight up stroke uses the Roberval principle (~1x distance x weight, the triangle becomes part of the vertical roberval beam)

I would guess this gives the system a ~1x weight x distance energy gain advantage, it will depend on what the RPM the machine is capable off for how much energy it can deliver. (the reason for the multiple modifications).
The ingenuity is in the mechanical method used that changes the setup between up and down stroke. 

As you might remember from a previous tread where TK and others had a fall-out with Wayne Travis because they couldn’t see the point, It was the same principle used by Wayne Travis in the Hydro ZED, using a differentiation process between the up & down stroke of his hydro ZED system in order to create asymmetry and thereby to work around the standard physics limitation. A changed lever between up & down strokes but UNCHANGED travel height. It is difficult for many people to see the subtle principle but necessary difference that is applied here.  It requires some persistent visualization to swing your head around the concept.

As a pointer for this invention, you must have wondered by now, what is that triangle doing there mounted with these big silver shine flanges and do pay attention to that complete assembly interactions with the robervall.

SALUT to the inventors of the new world, for the shared knowledge that provides us great inspiration

Regards, Red Sunset





Offline conradelektro

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #100 on: December 02, 2013, 01:03:50 PM »
I am sure that most people have no problem to understand, that any real "gravity OU machine" must have an "up stroke" which needs less energy than the "down stroke" will provide.

The problem is to conclusively prove by experiment (and not so importantly also by theory) that this is really possible.

Neither the Robeval balance ( compound lever, http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/roberval.htm ) nor any lever system can provide that, as far as we know today. This is a well founded argument. But there might be some contraption which can do it, and the inventor of such a contraption must provide conclusive proof (best by providing measurements and by letting other people do measurements).

And as I have stated over and over again, the inventor has to prove that he has such a system, nobody has to and possibly can prove that such a system does not exist.

To make it very clear: we need "proof of existence", the "non existence" can never be proven. An easy to understand example: in order to prove that a flying horse is possible, you have to show a flying horse and you must allow people to test the flying horse. Nobody can ever prove that a flying horse is not possible. There are many good arguments against a flying horse, but may be someone will figure out how to breed or clone one.

So, we can not discuss the strange machine without being given details and most importantly we need conclusive measurements.

And I see great problems with measurements. It seems to be obvious that the strange machine needs a motor. Lets say the motor puts in 10 Kilowatt. It will be very difficult first to establish the exact energy input (because we have a big amount of energy put in) and then it will be even more difficult to establish energy output, because it should be an even bigger amount of energy. Expensive measurement methods will be necessary to measure electrical energy and most importantly torque in the Kilowatt accurately.

I really can not understand where Red_Sunset sees some proof that the machine is working. Did Red_Sunset talk with the inventor? Has Red_Sunset received any measurement results? Also the patents do not provide proof. And specially the nice drawings do not provide proof. The only proof we have is that a lot of money is spent.

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #100 on: December 02, 2013, 01:03:50 PM »
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Offline Red_Sunset

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #101 on: December 02, 2013, 02:10:02 PM »
I really can not understand where Red_Sunset sees some proof that the machine is working. Did Red_Sunset talk with the inventor? Has Red_Sunset received any measurement results? Also the patents do not provide proof. And specially the nice drawings do not provide proof. The only proof we have is that a lot of money is spent.
Greetings, Conrad

Lets not go on the path of being the 'Jury'.  The inventor is building a machine and says it is going to do xyz. The inventor is not looking for your approval, nor your acknowledgement that his invention is working, neither did he come to the "overunity.com", someone found the info on the internet and posted it here, with the question., Hey look at this, what is this guy building.

What you can do in turn, if you have the interest is look at it and see if you see anything interesting from which you can learn. The inventor made Hi definition pictures available to get a real close look.

It it your choice what to do with them

PS: No motor is needed to start. Also the output drive shaft can only turn in one direction for it to work.
The system can be proven with simple math and physics to work. It can also be build with simple metal parts.  Read my previous post with comprehension and it will become clear. The mechanism to alter up/down stroke is simple and the only difficult part.

Red_Sunset


Offline tim123

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #102 on: December 02, 2013, 02:50:14 PM »
It can also be build with simple metal parts.  Read my previous post with comprehension and it will become clear. The mechanism to alter up/down stroke is simple and the only difficult part.
Red_Sunset

Hi RedSunset,
  I have a meccano model I built - pictures posted previously - which, I think, replicates the mechanism of one 'piston' of the machine...

It doesn't seem to show any signs of OU. The forces are still symetrical - as I showed in my previous post. But I could be missing something - and I'd be grateful if anyone could suggest anything that might make it work differently.

After playing around with the mechanism - I can't see any obvious way that it could work... I'm quite mystified by the whole proceedings TBH...

Regards
Tim

Offline vince

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #103 on: December 02, 2013, 03:17:24 PM »
Hey Tim
 Try your model again.  Look back at my post 88 you will see that indeed the force required to lift the weight back up if attached to the vertical arm is a fraction of the down force exerted if attached to any other arm. It is basic roberval linkage which  has been proven in science and commercially sold.
Look closely at their machine and you will see that on the upstroke the weight rests on the vertical beam via the arched lever and a permanent stop on that arch. At the top it has a hook that attaches the weight arm to the lower links therefore nullifying the roberval balance effect and using the full length of the lever arm.  The science is real and proven.
The question is,have they achieved the task of automatically and mechanically switching the point of attachment of the two link systems, and will the machine accomplish this task on its own without any external forces aiding the link attachment?
This is not rocket science! For those of you that do not understand what they are doing read up about the roberval balance and you will soon see that they are just exploiting this mechanical anomaly.


Vince

Offline powercat

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #104 on: December 02, 2013, 03:41:41 PM »
@@ Red_Sunset
nearly a year since you last posted on this forum, and your absolute blind belief that Wayne Travis is an honorable person and talks the truth is the biggest load BS I ever heard, and still after all this time no verification of his device, and note in his new look website that he has removed the monthly update section, you remember the one, he kept promising verification was going to happen very soon, and time and time again he broke his word. 
http://hydroenergyrevolution.com/

I advise other readers to take anything Red_Sunset  says with a very large grain of salt, Wayne Travis and Red_Sunset  have repeatedly failed to prove in scientific terms that they have a working over-unity devise, let alone how to make one work, their history speaks for itself.

 

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