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Author Topic: Big try at gravity wheel  (Read 488971 times)

Offline Enstenow

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #75 on: October 18, 2013, 07:04:22 PM »
Hello,

RAR energia is a big hoax.
A big hoax invented by a Brazilian student.
This student works in computer graphics and design with a software of image. Very successful software.

Example:
(http://nsa34.casimages.com/img/2013/10/18/13101807292051550.jpg)


The machine does not exist. The workers are false.
Really, the shed is empty.


We shall not see a video. Never !

Furthermore,
The systems of lever (parallelogram of the strengths) by gravity are not overunity.
In movement, angles and strengths nullify.

The systems of variable lever (vertical and horizontal), and PABB (Parallel Arm Balance Beam) with weights and to counter weight.
These two systems are impossible for the perpetual motion.
Cycles or periodic balance are impossible.

In geometrical lever, the gravity does not work!


Sorry I do not speak English

 Enstenow ( retired engineer)


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #75 on: October 18, 2013, 07:04:22 PM »

Offline tim123

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2013, 08:39:14 PM »
Hello,
RAR energia is a big hoax.

Hi Enstenow, do ypou have any evidence it's a hoax? The image you attached is very good, but it doesn't demonstrate the skills you would need to fake all the images on rarenergia's website. The images look quite real to me.

I've been following this for months, and trying to figure out how it works. I think I can see the principle:

 - The position where the weight is carried on the down / up strokes is different.
 - The linkage to the weight changes from the 'arm', to the 'big silver bearing'
 - On the down stroke - the weight is held via the arm
 - On the up stroke - the weight is held by the bearing

Notes:
 - The guy - according to peswiki - has built proptotypes that work. So he knows the principle works. Apparently.
 - The machine is the first of this size - and they've clearly made some parts adjustable - and they've modified some parts - so they can try different things.
 - It is not a 'soybean crusher', or any other kind of normal machine, that's for sure.

If it's a hoax - it's a very expensive, kinda pointless one.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2013, 10:11:48 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #78 on: October 31, 2013, 09:10:56 PM »
... do ypou have any evidence it's a hoax? ....
Here is the evidence (That does not apply for singularity, however):


E=MC^2

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Low-Q

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #79 on: October 31, 2013, 09:16:08 PM »
This picture is fake. The person that is suppose to run that machine is photoshopped in place. No doubt. Fake.
http://www.overunity.com/13480/big-try-at-gravity-wheel/dlattach/attach/123542/image//

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #79 on: October 31, 2013, 09:16:08 PM »
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Offline camelherder49

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #80 on: October 31, 2013, 09:24:31 PM »
The guy in the picture is operating the hydraulic
crane that you see in the background.

Offline Enstenow

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #81 on: November 07, 2013, 01:09:41 AM »
Hi Enstenow, do ypou have any evidence it's a hoax? The image you attached is very good, but it doesn't demonstrate the skills you would need to fake all the images on rarenergia's website. The images look quite real to me.

Hi Tim 123,

All RAR energia is a hoax ( Project, machine, press article, .... )

Example photographs N ° 40 : http://rarenergia.com.br/imagem40a.JPG

Look  ;)

http://nsa33.casimages.com/img/2013/11/07/131107125729411914.jpg


The systems of lever (parallelogram of the strengths) and PABB (Parallel Arm Balance Beam) with weights and to counter weight.
The systems by gravity are not overunity.






Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #81 on: November 07, 2013, 01:09:41 AM »
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Offline tim123

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #82 on: November 07, 2013, 10:48:19 AM »
Hi Tim 123,

The systems of lever (parallelogram of the strengths) and PABB (Parallel Arm Balance Beam) with weights and to counter weight.
The systems by gravity are not overunity.

Hi Enstenow :)
  I made a meccano test rig - to see where the forces are. It doesn't look like OU to me now...

Pic attached.

Regards
Tim

Offline ponto

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #83 on: November 08, 2013, 01:44:31 AM »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #83 on: November 08, 2013, 01:44:31 AM »
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Offline Enstenow

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #84 on: November 08, 2013, 06:38:06 AM »
Yes Tim 123  8)

With a parallelogram, the resultant of the strengths nullify = statics
These systems of lever are impossible for the perpetual motion.
With two axes + brace, the gravitation does not work in cycle. Nor in cycle 1/16.
Systems Underunity. Energy = 0

For the perpetual motion by gravity
Only possible solution: the pendulum !!  << Physical theory possible overunity  >> dixit Richard Feynman

An idea (the solution is certainly there)
 
=> http://youtu.be/1uKoAwFFwPY 

Regards

Enstenow

Offline tim123

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #85 on: November 08, 2013, 07:55:32 PM »
And now we have a patent
http://www.google.com/patents/US20130256066

Thanks Ponto :)
  It's an interesting read... I've given it some thought, played around with my model, and I can't disprove what it says. It makes some sense...

From reading the patent, I now know which way the thing is supposed to rotate - and that helps a lot. :D

 - The parallel bars make a 'Roberval Balance' (?): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoU9_BFIWwE  - This is the default support for the weights.

 - As the linkage moves to the shaft connecting-rod - the center of mass does indeed seem to move out to the bar-end.

 - This means work must be done to lift the mass into that position. It says so in the patent too.

 - The lift seems to be done in about 25 degrees of rotation - and it then can usefully act on about 100 degrees as the crank descends. But these settings are adjustable - and he has locks too - which would definitely help.

 - So, yes I can imagine that the extra 'cylinders' of the engine might keep it going round...

The weight supporting arm on my model (the yellow rectangles) is quite short. From the patent - that arm needs to be longer...

I'm still undecided... I may have to build a full replica with 8 cylinders... Maybe not a full-size one though...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #85 on: November 08, 2013, 07:55:32 PM »
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Offline vince

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #86 on: November 10, 2013, 10:30:39 PM »
Hi Tim123


I think you hit the nail on the head with your evaluation of the RAR Energia machine. It is indeed a roberval balance linkage and if they get there locking system correct I believe their machine can run itself.
If they can get the weight arm to alternately lock to the neutral vertical beam and one of the lower support beams they can produce some real torque and raise the weight back up at a fraction of the torque weight.


I was fascinated by their machine and made a little test rig ( shown in attached pictures).  The effect is real and quite an eye opener.
If you look at the pictures you can see that the weight arm is free to rotate around the lower pivot pin.
The weights themselves weigh 2.5 lbs.
Notice the weight arm has 2 projections with holes in them. These are the locking plates akin to the arch rings on the energia machine.
When no pin is in place the weight arm just flops down.
When the pin is locked into the hole on the neutral vertical roberval balance linkage it exhibits a force of 6.25 lbs measured at a radius of 3" from the central pivots.
When the pin is locked into the lower support arm of the roberval balance linkage it exhibits a whopping force of 18.25 lbs measured at the same 3 " radius.
That's a net gain of 12 lbs.
if they are successful at alternating the locking points on their machine each one of the cranks is going to make huge torque and easily lift the ascending weights.


Guys, I think this machine is real and may be a game changer.
Try the experiment for yourselves or just consider my test rig. The potential for their machine to work is high.


Vince



Offline helloha

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #87 on: November 11, 2013, 01:16:04 AM »
the wm2d version of rarEnergia (a simple edition),
 have fun playing around with it

Offline tim123

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #88 on: November 11, 2013, 01:37:15 PM »
...Guys, I think this machine is real and may be a game changer.
Try the experiment for yourselves or just consider my test rig. The potential for their machine to work is high.
Vince

Hi Vince :)
   Thanks for the info - nice test setup!

It really does look like it's possible... It'll be interesting to see if the patent is granted - and if so - what he does with it...

I'll have to spend some time thinking about how to do a decent replication... But, I'd really like 10KW to run my home - and a machine 1/3 the size would still be pretty chunky...

Idea: I wonder if the efficiency could be increased by getting the masses to swing - as pendulums..? Given the apparent change in mass - it could totally get over the 'sticky spot', and provide more push down too... It could also mean you don't need such big weights...

I guess either they'd not thought of that, discounted it as too tricky, or tried it and found it didn't work... I'll see if I can build it into whatever I make...

Offline tim123

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #89 on: November 11, 2013, 03:25:38 PM »
I've added the longer arm to my test rig, and I have some results to share:

Image 1)
 This shows the test setup. Blue cogs on the left are just weight for counterbalance.
 Rotation is clockwise.
 The crank is resting at the top. This is just before the down stroke.

The next stage lifts the mass at the end of the red rectangles, onto the crank-connecting-rod. This takes a lot of work to do - it's a massive 'sticky spot', and it goes all the way round to 90 degrees (the 3 o-clock position). (I was wrong before - it's a full 90 degrees)

Image 2)
  This shows the crank resting at the 3-o-clock position. It can go either way from there, up or down, given a slight push.

Image 3)
 This shows the bottom of the stroke.

Note the crank is resting at these positions - I don't have to hold it...

So, in conclusion, I'm not seeing any obvious mechanism for OU here. It takes a lot of effort to lift the arm from the 'neutral' position into a 'positive' position...

 

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