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Author Topic: Big try at gravity wheel  (Read 594739 times)

Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #255 on: January 13, 2014, 10:55:16 PM »
Grimer are there any existing, replicated experiments that you can point to that show the gravitational field operating in a non-conservative manner?
You're new here, Mark, aren't you.


You suddenly appear over the horizon suggesting to Al that he cools things down with Rosemary.


You tell me who you are, who you work for and what your connection with Al is and I might think about answering your question.
Until then I suggest you think very carefully about the pendulum proof of principle.
After all, you can't be a little bit pregnant, can you.


Your employer might want your opinion on the proof so as he knows whether or not to short his shares.


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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #255 on: January 13, 2014, 10:55:16 PM »

Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #256 on: January 13, 2014, 11:08:12 PM »
Red .. Grimer has been presenting this hypothesis of gain in Pe [i.e. gravity force is not conservative] as fact for quite some time - he has been asked to provide repeatable experimental evidence of his claim both here & over at BW.com - IINM he has never 'produced the goods' - having a theory is one thing, promoting it as a fact or truth is another.

A couple of renowned commentators here have politely pointed out the contradictory evidence to the 'Grimer theory'.

Perhaps I am less quick to accept someone's musing as indisputable fact than you [my failing perhaps ?] & prefer to check facts as best I can before willingly becoming an acolyte - IIRC You-tube has some good experiments with pendulums, in such a manner as Grimer proposes, which do not show a gain in height.

Perhaps Grimer would like to provide his experimental basis for his theory so we can forever retire Gravity as a conservative force  & open the Pandoras box !


Hi Fletch,


I wondered when you'd turn up. ::)


We had this discussion on the Brachisochrone some years ago. I seem to remember that I pointed out that any curve that departed from the cycloid form must involve higher derivative energy. At that point you went silent.  ;D


As for Utube having the experiment I describe, I very much doubt it.
If you know of one together with the graphical proof I gave then I would love to see it.


Anyway, my argument doesn't need experimental proof any more than Euclids.


As far as providing experimental evidence is concerned that's not my job.


I was employed as a Scientific Officer when in government service, not an Experimental
Officer. I had people like you and Al to do experiments. Al had reluctantly agree to do the
Bruce experiment but I suddenly started having doubts about him and backed out.


He had got to the stage of sending me his address by email and I told him not to.

Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #257 on: January 13, 2014, 11:29:54 PM »

Replies: 24
Views: 527
(http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/templates/Classic/images/icon_minipost.gif)Forum: Community Buzz   Posted: 22nd August 2012, 4:12 am   Subject: Milkovic pendulum[/size]I can now see that the Bruce's uncle toy, the Milkovic pendulum and the Keenie all depend for their jerk energy generation on ground effect, on ground reaction twisting the gravity wind vector (cf. sailing where you have the interaction between the wind action and the water reaction).

I had a discussion sometime back with Fletcher where I pointed out that departure from the Brachistochrone curve must involve the third derivative of position with respect to time (jerk). The fall is slower because jerk energy is being generated. Now a vortex is just about as far from the Brachistochrone as you can get. Instead of the fastest time of descent you have the one of the slowest.

Fascinating - really fascinating.
[/font]

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #257 on: January 13, 2014, 11:29:54 PM »
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Offline fletcher

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #258 on: January 13, 2014, 11:43:06 PM »

Hi Fletch,


I wondered when you'd turn up. ::)


We had this discussion on the Brachistochrone some years ago. I seem to remember that I pointed out that any curve that departed from the cycloid form must involve higher derivative energy. At that point you went silent.  ;D


As for Utube having the experiment I describe I very much doubt it. If you know of one together with the graphical proof I gave then I would love to see it.


Anyway, my argument doesn't need experimental proof any more than Euclids.

Ahhh yes - the brachistochrone, jack abling's wheel & omnibus's cummulative Ke.

I went silent because we had reached an impasse - conservative gravity force describes that if gravity acceleration is the only acceleration/deceleration in play on an object rolling [or swinging, or spiraling, or rotating] down a slope [straight or curved of any shape or steepness] then at ANY same loss of vertical height for direct comparison purposes, the object will have lost the same Pe as gained as Ke - IOW's the Pe lost & Ke gained is path independent.

Sorry Frank, perhaps someone else can find the You-tube experiments [very slow internet here].

All arguments need experimental proof Frank to transition to accepted facts & truth, else they remain theory's - I'd like to see your experimental evidence to compliment your theory - perhaps you could use the ball rolling down a vortex tube & measure the horizontal exit speed [well, even just the velocity in any direction will do, for a given height loss] to prove a gain in Ke above Pe lost ?

ETA: I see you added to your post - pity you backed away from TK's offer of help - you could of actually proved something ;7)

Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #259 on: January 13, 2014, 11:44:07 PM »

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #259 on: January 13, 2014, 11:44:07 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #260 on: January 14, 2014, 02:36:19 AM »
You're new here, Mark, aren't you.


You suddenly appear over the horizon suggesting to Al that he cools things down with Rosemary.


You tell me who you are, who you work for and what your connection with Al is and I might think about answering your question.
Until then I suggest you think very carefully about the pendulum proof of principle.
After all, you can't be a little bit pregnant, can you.


Your employer might want your opinion on the proof so as he knows whether or not to short his shares.
Grimer, if you have been reading my posts then you should know that I am not interested in personal battles.

You either have available examples that show or at least suggest that gravity is non-conservative, or you do not.  The idea that gravity is non-conservative is an extraordinary one.  It is made more extraordinary every day that we make careful measurements that reinforce the accepted idea that gravity is conservative.   All pendulum experiments that I know of that have actually been conducted have shown results that are consistent with a conservative gravitational field.  If you can point to a pendulum or other experiment that has actually been conducted and that you feel demonstrates or suggests that gravity is non-conservative, then please do.

Offline Marsing

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #261 on: January 14, 2014, 04:26:12 AM »
Since we have been discussing gravity wheels, I thought you meant a Bessler, or Bessler like device was part of those 99% of the working gravity devices you mentioned.   I especially thought this when you declared:  "it's EASY".  Please clarify what sorts of machines are among the 99% of gravity devices that you have found work.  Are any of those devices gravity wheels?

gravity wheels := bessler,  davinci,   Mikhail Dmitriev, etc.. .
in short :=  unbalance wheel.  ( tell me your defenition)
this all about pendulum, when i found something, how can i  still deny some others in similar field.

and a hard part :  "clarify"  for what?       

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #261 on: January 14, 2014, 04:26:12 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #262 on: January 14, 2014, 04:47:55 AM »
Marsing are you saying that anyone has found that any of those unbalanced wheels work? 

Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #263 on: January 14, 2014, 04:51:24 AM »
Grimer, if you have been reading my posts then you should know that I am not interested in personal battles.
...
You're not interested in saying who you are either. Why not? I'm sure you've got nothing to be ashamed of.
I repeat. Who are you working for?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #263 on: January 14, 2014, 04:51:24 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #264 on: January 14, 2014, 04:55:16 AM »
Grimer, please stay on topic.  Do you have any examples that demonstrate or suggest that gravity is non-conservative?

Offline Marsing

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #265 on: January 14, 2014, 05:05:21 AM »

@markE,
imagination is a great tool although never accurate.

@grimer,
what is that?

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #265 on: January 14, 2014, 05:05:21 AM »
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Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #266 on: January 14, 2014, 05:07:44 AM »
...
ETA: I see you added to your post - pity you backed away from TK's offer of help - you could of actually proved something ;7)


I backed away because I remembered the WhipMag.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyw5GKmOF64


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV7CO8No-CE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJy21fXhZMQ


And I remembered who Al was working for.

Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #267 on: January 14, 2014, 05:16:53 AM »
Grimer, please stay on topic.  Do you have any examples that demonstrate or suggest that gravity is non-conservative?
Whoever you are you're a pretty cool customer. I'll give you that. And you're not this side of the pond coz you'd be fast asleep by now.  :)

Offline MarkE

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #268 on: January 14, 2014, 05:23:03 AM »
Grimer, if you have examples that show or suggest that gravity is non-conservative, then great, I would love to learn about them.  If you don't, you don't.  In that case, I would encourage you to devise a falsification test for your hypothesis that gravity is non-conservative, and then execute that experiment and report on it.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #269 on: January 14, 2014, 06:54:57 AM »
Quote
He had got to the stage of sending me his address by email and I told him not to.

ORLY? This is the first I've heard of that.

I think you came to your senses and realized that you would have to pay up the 2000 pounds, and you still wouldn't be any better off than you are now.

Anyone with any sense can see that the non-existence of a self-looping coin funnel is sufficient disproof of your silly hypothesis (which you never bothered to state explicitly.)
       

 

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