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Author Topic: Big try at gravity wheel  (Read 588502 times)

Offline Red_Sunset

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #225 on: January 12, 2014, 11:11:52 AM »
................................................
.....................truth ...............Only one can be correct. The rest that claim to be correct are in error.
Grimer,
I regret to disagree, for the following reasons,
An OPINION is not a FACT, a persistent FACT become a "TRUTH" until it is proven to be no "persistent" fact any longer

It was frigging cold here a week ago. The temperature had dropped to +4dgrC.
At the same time, in contrast, CNN reported that the cold weather in Chicago had relented to a balmy -6dgrC.
There are many flavors of truth.

Sure if you decide on "one standard" reference, and then use this as your common yard stick. Then you are correct to ONE truth  >> but in context to that yardstick only !!  The way TK is correct in his standard yardstick view.

For sure there will be itemsof truth that becomes indisputable and unchanged and are recognized by many other yardstick references since no one has been able to come up with any good case of evidence to indisputable refute these accepted truth's.
Religion examples: Theft, murder...ect       
Science/physics examples: 1ste, 2de, 3th Law of thermodynamics.

Any of these laws can be refuted (changed, retracted...ect).  An extreme example would be, if your religion is cannibalism, or human sacrifice, murder would be accepted as normal in those circumstances. You can say the same thing about war, is it condoned murder?, I guess it is in specific circumstances (due to a thin borderline between killing and self-defence).   

Notwithstanding that the 1st/2de/3th laws are very correct, I am not convinced that they will remain absolute. In time, they will undergo addendum's.  So their truth will become a shade of gray with the work in "overunity.com"
Look at the Catholic church, they change the divine laws from time to time.  In the past, take certain South African churches, they officially condoned "apartheid" as ordered by god. You are a church member, you follow "blindly" the truth?.   Think about it, can you do an act that in your conscious is wrong but your religion organization says is isn't wrong ?
Do you think that democratic rule is the best solution for all people,  have a look if it does the best for American citizens? 

Truth is relative at any time

Amen, Red_Sunset

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #225 on: January 12, 2014, 11:11:52 AM »

Offline MarkE

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #226 on: January 12, 2014, 11:17:33 AM »
September 2013 - machine complete:
19/10/2013 - Foto Oficial nº 52 - Final da terceira de três etapas
http://www.rarenergia.com.br/

January 2014 - still no video of it running... Why not???  :(
Those machines look like they are missing a large and powerful engine to drive them.

Offline tim123

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #227 on: January 12, 2014, 11:39:23 AM »
Truth is relative at any time

I couldn't disagree more...

 1) Temperature:
  10C may be hot to a polar bear, and cold for a gecko, BUT
  water at sea-level *always* boils at 100C - absolutely.

Quote
items of truth that becomes indisputable.... Any of these laws can be refuted...

 2) Nonsense!
  Gravity didn't 'become indisputable'. It *always* was. Can you refute it?
  Murder didn't 'become' wrong. It *always* was. Can you refute that?
  A definition of LAW: A cause-and-effect which is universal and constant.

Quote
Look at the Catholic church, they change the divine laws from time to time.

 3) Law: I think you're very confused about what law is - but then people aren't taught it - deliberately...

There's a very big difference between the Laws of God (i.e. physics and morality), and the 'laws' of mankind.

The 'divine law' (canon) of the church is no such thing, it's a (vast) set of ridiculous rules imposed by creepy men in frocks who have an unhealthy interest in children, and who desire to enslave people in ignorance for their own enrichment.

The statute law of your democracy is again - not real law. It is neither constant, nor is it universal. Nor is it lawful.

 4) Relativity Vs. Absolute-ity

This is a big debate - and it cuts to the heart of both PHYSICS and MORALITY...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #227 on: January 12, 2014, 11:39:23 AM »
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Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #228 on: January 12, 2014, 04:03:16 PM »
When might soon be?  Bessler made his claims 300 years ago.  Since then no experiment has reproduced his perpetual motion claims.  John Collins is among those who have tried and failed.  Gravity stubbornly continues to demonstrate that it is a conservative field.
Soon will be when RAR release details of their gravity engine. Keenie tried and succeeded. Bruce's Uncle tried and (unwittingly succeeded. I've no doubt when people realise that harnessing the gravitational wind is possible many other examples will emerge from the woodwork.

Offline Red_Sunset

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #229 on: January 12, 2014, 04:09:14 PM »
I couldn't disagree more...
...................................................................................................
.................................................
............................................
 This is a big debate - and it cuts to the heart of both PHYSICS and MORALITY...
Tim,
You are absolutely correct on any ONE of the floors designated by Gimer (9th or 10th),  but do not across all floors.
I do not want to carry this any further since it is not an appropriate topic for this forum
Red_Sunset

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #229 on: January 12, 2014, 04:09:14 PM »
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Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #230 on: January 12, 2014, 04:28:20 PM »
...
Look at the Catholic church, they change the divine laws from time to time.
...
[size=78%]
[/font][/size]
No they don't.


The central core of beliefs and morals has never and will never be changed.


The dogma of the Immaculate Conception and Assumption, for example, which been solemnly confirmed  by the pope using his power of infallibility will never be changed.


The murder of unborn children has never been allowed and will never be allowed.


For an obviously intelligent and educated man your ignorance on these matters is astonishing. Why, even Setalokin knows better than that.




Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #231 on: January 12, 2014, 04:39:19 PM »
September 2013 - machine complete:
19/10/2013 - Foto Oficial nº 52 - Final da terceira de três etapas
http://www.rarenergia.com.br/

January 2014 - still no video of it running... Why not???  :(
Why don't you ask them - or do some research. I think they have given a reason somewhere.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #231 on: January 12, 2014, 04:39:19 PM »
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Offline Marsing

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #232 on: January 13, 2014, 09:25:30 AM »
When might soon be?  Bessler made his claims 300 years ago.  Since then no experiment has reproduced his perpetual motion claims.  John Collins is among those who have tried and failed.  Gravity stubbornly continues to demonstrate that it is a conservative field.



and then from last 300 years , someone have proved that energy/power can be extracted from gravity.
and probably now thousand have made replica/modification for their own,
there were many others that works,

BIG QUESTION , KEEP  ANSWERS FOR YOUR SELF
-----------------------------------------------------
1. how can I ensure that John Collins has really failed ?
2. was I with him when device being tested ?
3. did I do experiment by Myself?
4. did John Collins know everything?
5. AM I only copy others post or wiki or other sources AND blindly accept that?
6. will my heroes give credit to me with supporting their posts?
 ...
 ... space for my next QS
 ... 
 ...
?.
-----------------------------------------------------

i was also skeptic, skeptic protect us from scam fraud etc..
till i found 99% gravity device do work, ( with simple math).
best word to say, it's EASY

the conservative field theory as a reason to deny existence of these will be obsolete, next you ( all of "conservative field"  MAN) will realize that "conservative field" is not the only one to judge,   
   
sorry for my words, and peace for all

marsing

Offline Red_Sunset

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #233 on: January 13, 2014, 11:08:36 AM »
...............................
The central core of beliefs and morals has never and will never be changed.
.......................................
Hi Grimer & all
I agree, that would take a revolution in its true'st sense.

I do not want to sound like a stuck record, if I may add the following text,  to be seen within the context of purpose for this forum.
The essence of my initial communication was, that I am of the opinion that in order to succeed in discovering the “free energy, as a  hook into the wheelwork of the universe (as Tesla said)”, we need to be able to think and reason “uninhibited”.  That is a taller order than you might think !.

Uninhibited does not mean to disregard known knowledge or start from square one.
It should mean to be open to new ideas and able to think and reason without being limited, the best equivalent is “discover like a child”.
That doesn’t mean that there a no limitation to what can be done, neither to ignore all physics theories and facts.  Just do not allow yourself to be limited by them,  do not allow existing laws to pre-empt or override logical reasoning. (I know, easier said than done)

For example, most people have already written off the RAR as unworkable,  that it is unworkable might be true. To know this you need to know how it possibly can work.  It is ok for anybody to say so, so long such a statement is supported by good logical analysis.
The best I have seen is thus far is MrVibrating with a SIM analysis.  Al the others are just purely speculation and guesswork work. That is no problem, but it should be recognized as such, an opinion not a fact.

We discover by perception >> perception forms an opinion by limited repeat observation >> confirmation with repeatable verification of an opinion turn it into fact >>  persistent confirmation of fact >> turns it into Law (~=truth).

Most of what I have seen here in “overunity.com” is the initial stage of perception leading towards fact confirmation, but with a great failure rate.
The result is that a lot of hard work gets trashed,  which makes many member apathetic to investing further new efforts. This leads to mainly “fast opinions” being tabled.  (although they are desired to be facts).

Some interesting revelations are still pending on this RAR. I do not like to post incomplete summaries

PS:  Some good words from Marsing, he makes a good point, 
Visualize, if YOU would have discovered the key to the holy grail, why would you post it here to be shot down.  At that juncture, you would have your hands full with much more important priorities.
Never under-estimate the dynamics of human motivation, (first tends to be always ...me first)

My 3 cents,  Red_Sunset

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #233 on: January 13, 2014, 11:08:36 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #234 on: January 13, 2014, 11:09:52 AM »


and then from last 300 years , someone have proved that energy/power can be extracted from gravity.
and probably now thousand have made replica/modification for their own,
there were many others that works,

BIG QUESTION , KEEP  ANSWERS FOR YOUR SELF
-----------------------------------------------------
1. how can I ensure that John Collins has really failed ?
2. was I with him when device being tested ?
3. did I do experiment by Myself?
4. did John Collins know everything?
5. AM I only copy others post or wiki or other sources AND blindly accept that?
6. will my heroes give credit to me with supporting their posts?
 ...
 ... space for my next QS
 ... 
 ...
?.
-----------------------------------------------------

i was also skeptic, skeptic protect us from scam fraud etc..
till i found 99% gravity device do work, ( with simple math).
best word to say, it's EASY

the conservative field theory as a reason to deny existence of these will be obsolete, next you ( all of "conservative field"  MAN) will realize that "conservative field" is not the only one to judge,   
   
sorry for my words, and peace for all

marsing
Marsing could you please point out a working machine that today is powered by gravity in the same sense as Johann Bessler claimed for his various wheels?

Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #235 on: January 13, 2014, 11:14:40 AM »
Below shows the difference in jerk energy between a normal pendulum swinging through an angle of two radians and a cycloid pendulum.


The difference is represented by the shaded area.


This is the reason that a normal the swing of a clock pendulum must be restricted to a very small angle so that it approximates to the brachisochrone. For the brachisocrone the period of swing is independent of the amplitude.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #235 on: January 13, 2014, 11:14:40 AM »
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Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #236 on: January 13, 2014, 11:46:37 AM »



The generation of the 3rd derivative energy for curves that depart from
the cycloid can best be illustrated with a coin rolling demonstration.


If you roll a seven sided 50p coin (the large pre-1997 are best) along a
smooth horizontal plane the coin will initially jerk up and down with a
rattling noise. This is because though the diameter of the coin is constant
its centre of mass is not generally at the half diameter point. When the
coin is rolling fast enough the vertical oscillation of the mass centre is
sufficient to lift the coil free of the horizontal surface. The impact
when if falls back causes the rattling.


As the speed decreases there come a point where the rattling suddenly
ceases and the coin rolls smoothly.


This is the point where the vertical oscillation of the mass centre is
insufficient to lift the coin. It only varies the force applied by the
coin to the horizontal plane.

Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #237 on: January 13, 2014, 12:03:06 PM »
One can demonstrate the harnessing of gravity with a flexible pendulum which is allowed to swing freely from about 8 to 6 and wrap around a cycloid barrier from 6 to about 4.


It will be seen that the finishing point of the bob is higher than the starting point. The pendulum has gained gravitational energy.


Of course, to demonstrate this experimentally would require the facilities of a decent laboratory. I doubt that one could do it in  one's garage.


One would require a very flexible thin wire between the support and bob (carbon fibre?) and a vacuum enclosure to eliminate air resistance.


Obviously it would not be a practical device but it would demonstrate the principle and show that the gravity field is not conservative.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #238 on: January 13, 2014, 12:20:22 PM »
One can demonstrate the harnessing of gravity with a flexible pendulum which is allowed to swing freely from about 8 to 6 and wrap around a cycloid barrier from 6 to about 4.


It will be seen that the finishing point of the bob is higher than the starting point. The pendulum has gained gravitational energy.


Of course, to demonstrate this experimentally would require the facilities of a decent laboratory. I doubt that one could do it in  one's garage.


One would require a very flexible thin wire between the support and bob (carbon fibre?) and a vacuum enclosure to eliminate air resistance.


Obviously it would not be a practical device but it would demonstrate the principle and show that the gravity field is not conservative.
Grimer, if gravity is not conservative, then how do you account for very sensitive and well repeated torsion balance tests where large suspended masses have been shown to attract with forces indistinguishable from G*m1*m2/r^2?

Offline Red_Sunset

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #239 on: January 13, 2014, 12:27:50 PM »
One can demonstrate the harnessing of gravity with a flexible pendulum which is allowed to swing freely from about 8 to 6 and wrap around a cycloid barrier from 6 to about 4.

It will be seen that the finishing point of the bob is higher than the starting point. The pendulum has gained gravitational energy.
....................................................
Hi Grimer,

Excellent presentation, although I never heard of these pendulum properties before, I learn something new, pretty fast by your logical presentation.
You underscore the exact principle path towards over-unity. The same base logic is employed (or at better phrased at this point "intended") by Renato in its RAR, and Wayne Travis in his ZED, where the energy requirement for the upswing is less than the energy gained in the down swing (or visa versa) in order to obtain a positive output balance.
The engineering challenge is in the transformation/morphing at BDC to switch cycle type and the requirement to execute this transition with minimal energy (less than possible gain), the core inventive property is there.
Well done.

Red_Sunset

 

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