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Author Topic: Big try at gravity wheel  (Read 577502 times)

Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #180 on: December 31, 2013, 10:26:01 PM »

You obvious don't believe in the exhortation DYOR.


Still, seeing that you are possibly capable of understanding I'll take pity on you.


This paper by Hans van Lieden is a good place to start.

http://www.zen111904.zen.co.uk/THE%20ROAD%20TO%20PERPETUAL%20MOTION.htm

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #180 on: December 31, 2013, 10:26:01 PM »

Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #181 on: December 31, 2013, 10:36:49 PM »
Davis [1] said that the whole structure of science “is a cracked and sagging edifice held together with masking tape and resting on the shifting sands of constantly changing theory.  Nothing is known with any real certainty.Some things are merely more probable than others. Well-known theories and even laws turn out to be only partially confirmed hypotheses, waiting to be replaced with somewhat better partially confirmed hypotheses.If there is one thing we know about every theory in modern physics, it is that it’s wrong or at least incomplete.  Sooner or later somebody will come along with a more general theory of which the old theory is seen to be a special case.This is not a criticism of science, but merely a description of the scientific method.”

Ain't that a fact.  ::)

Offline tim123

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #182 on: December 31, 2013, 10:45:06 PM »
So now you're being insulting and patronising... And I thought we were friends... :(

You claimed to have a proof of an OU device, all I asked for was details. In response you tell me I don't do my own research.

The device you link to has never been shown to work. Just because someone built it, and claimed it worked, means nothing. As I said before: Have you not noticed the large number of frauds in the field of OU?

Perhaps you think there is some benefit in just believing in things? Perhaps you think that by believing in things, it makes it more likely they'll work?

Belief is the opposite of knowing. It's worthless.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #182 on: December 31, 2013, 10:45:06 PM »
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Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #183 on: December 31, 2013, 11:35:14 PM »
Calm down Tim.


I'm well aware that no one has been able to make it work except Keenie.


That's because people didn't appreciate how and why it worked.


I merely gave you Hans's paper as a good intro to the Bessler Forum threads on the subject.


I can't think why you thought we were friends. We've never even been introduced.   ;D


Ah well, Destry - or rather Cognitive Dissonance rides again.
[size=78%]
[/size]
[size=78%] [/size]


Offline tim123

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #184 on: January 01, 2014, 12:18:26 AM »
So you have nothing.

I was being sarcastic with the 'friends' remark FYI.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #184 on: January 01, 2014, 12:18:26 AM »
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Offline Poit

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #185 on: January 01, 2014, 02:01:37 AM »
So now you're being insulting and patronising... And I thought we were friends... :(

You claimed to have a proof of an OU device, all I asked for was details. In response you tell me I don't do my own research.

The device you link to has never been shown to work. Just because someone built it, and claimed it worked, means nothing. As I said before: Have you not noticed the large number of frauds in the field of OU?

Perhaps you think there is some benefit in just believing in things? Perhaps you think that by believing in things, it makes it more likely they'll work?

Belief is the opposite of knowing. It's worthless.

out of all the responses in this thread, it really does boil down to one line you just said .. "Just because someone built it, and claimed it worked, means nothing."

Just because someone built it, and claimed it worked, means nothing.
Just because someone built it, and claimed it worked, means nothing.
Just because someone built it, and claimed it worked, means nothing.
Just because someone built it, and claimed it worked, means nothing.
Just because someone built it, and claimed it worked, means nothing.
Just because someone built it, and claimed it worked, means nothing.
Just because someone built it, and claimed it worked, means nothing.

Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #186 on: January 01, 2014, 03:19:10 AM »
So you have nothing.

...


Nothing for the "old and cynical".

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #186 on: January 01, 2014, 03:19:10 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Poit

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #187 on: January 01, 2014, 05:35:23 AM »

Nothing for the "old and cynical".

The onus is ALWAYS on the person claiming the extraordinary... we "cynical" people don't need to prove shit... all we have to do is sit back and watch you fools make a mockery of the over unity scene...

That said, I can prove you have nothing...................................................................................... drum roll................ because... YOU HAVE NOTHING!!

a claim is nothing
and all you have to offer is empty claims... you even said they are empty....in not so many words (by saying you have proof and wont share it)

Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #188 on: January 01, 2014, 08:02:29 AM »
I have shared it. You haven't understood it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #188 on: January 01, 2014, 08:02:29 AM »
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Offline Poit

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #189 on: January 01, 2014, 08:09:25 AM »
I have shared it. You haven't understood it.

Yea, your right... I havn't understood it, neither has the other 7+ billion people on the planet... well done *claps very sarcastically*

Offline Grimer

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #190 on: January 01, 2014, 08:32:22 AM »
You guys like to bitch like a bunch of OU (xxxx)!

We all can have an opinion, but that is not equal to fact. Neither does a view necessarily paint the whole picture.

If you did figure out the workings and found the forces not capable enough for the system to do as said,  a specific finding does not nail the door shut,  it only gives an indication that it is not exactly easy to open by just turning the handle. Knowing something is not necessary ALL the knowledge there is to know. 

I am not trying to make everybody believe that I got all the answers or would state that the RAR system shown works as stated. What matters more is the principle behind this system that could open the door to other design approaches. 
My intrigue is “why does an experienced designer/inventor thinks this can work”.  If the principle is sound, then working or not working is just a matter of engineering ability and available technology.

It is clear for this category type of OU design, we have a process that descends/drops a potential energy and then we expect (due to a process alteration) for the energy to be more during descend than what is required for ascent (one or a combination of both).
What Ribeiro is trying to achieve here is clearly follows a similar thought pattern, using a mechanical leverage alteration in the drop cycle to refocusing force vectors onto the same hardware (a hardware setup that did not expect that under normal con-rod conditions).  This results in a greater force than expected for a given energy drop distance. Resulting in more energy out that was held by the weight drop distance.

What Ribeiro’s design is doing, is manipulating the forces transmitted towards the crankshaft through the con-rod.  For a given gravity down force, he adds a similar value lateral force. The cost of this value verses the benefit to be had is critical.
 In a standard con-rod driven wheel, the transmission of force is a trig sin/cos function for the gravity down force. Now we introduce a selective applied lateral force to the crank that is 90dgr out of phase.
In regular crank/con-rod, with a 1:1 ratio, the weight drop height is equal to the crank wheel diameter. We know that the actual path of the con-rod attachment is more than that distance by ~1.5 since it follows the circumference.  If we now supposedly can keep the force vector at full force for that distance, we introduce an additional total torque energy of 1.5 times the drop energy.
Renato is aiming to apply this force for somewhat more that 90 dgr but at double the force (the result vector).  To supplement this, using connection locks in the system that can be engaged at specific times, in the region where the force is in-line with rotation, the down force is increased without sacrificing stored lateral potential energy, by engaging an extended lever force.  Cost saving is achieved by using weight balancing during the triangular tilt storage increase process to minimize overhead. 

The theoretical gain is limited, so any additional advantage by optimization would improve the energy balance and I believe that being the reason for diverse weight manipulation models seen.  Although the patent application gives a fair account of the working process, it sure is not the whole story and neither would we expect this to be the whole story.

What Ribeiro is trying to achieve here is in many principle aspects similar to the principle behind Wayne Travis zed described in a previous tread in this forum.  The basic difference is that Wayne uses an hydraulic leverage and Renato uses mechanical leverage.
Both principles use effectively a differentiation process between the down & up strokes with the result of an altered (increased) force over the same distance.  The differentiation is in how the properties of the same physical device are used, so that the use of a different property impacts and alters the energy balance
The result is a net energy gain.

Any constructive input is appreciated
Regards,  Red_Sunset


Don't you find it strange that in 10/19/2013 - Official Photo # 49 the outboard weights comes to rest on the ground during part of their cycles - the same event that takes place with the Milkovic and the Keenie. At this point the weight disappears as far as the rest of the mechanism is concerned since its weight is lost to its lever and the rest of the RAR mechanism.


The inboard weights on the other hand never go walkabout, never get a rest.


Don't you find it strange that the amplitude of the outboard weights is much less than that of the inboard weights, as is also the case with the Milkovic where the amplitude of the counterweight is less than that of the pendulum.


The Milkovic pendulum also loses and gains weight as a result of the interaction between Ersatz and Newtonian gravity. For example, for an arc of 120 degrees, sixty degrees on either side of the nadir, a pendulum will weigh nothing at the top of its swing and weigh twice its static weight at the bottom. A similar effect will occur with the inboard weights of the RAR, the magnitude depending on the speed of oscillation.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #190 on: January 01, 2014, 08:32:22 AM »
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Offline Red_Sunset

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #191 on: January 01, 2014, 09:41:15 AM »
Yea, your right... I havn't understood it, neither has the other 7+ billion people on the planet... well done *claps very sarcastically*
Yea, your right... I havn't understood it, neither has the other 7+ billion people on the planet... well done *claps very sarcastically*

Happy New-Year Piot, Peace,

Lets slow down the ranting a bit,   I do not understand what you are aiming for (I am sure that I am not alone), What will make you satisfied ?. Your replies are very general and not specific enough formulated to reply to with useful information.

In your last post, you say  "I havn't understood it" and in the previous posts to that you say “.you have nothing!!” &  “means nothing” repeatedly.  I do not see the relationship between these statements.
If you didn’t understand a technical explanation,  how can you state that “there is nothing” ?  I would expected a specific question on the detail that was not understood, or was in doubt or disagreed with.
 
Please allow me just for fun, to make a statement here that makes me also look as silly as previous posts,  "Can I ask you to produce the proof of the proxy’s that allows you to talk on behalf of the 7+ billion people !"
I can state categorically that you were definitively not talking on my behalf.

I gather that this is a technical forum, for specific technical idea’s and questions.  I do realize that this forum cannot be a 1 to 1 classroom to explain everything from a-z, without knowing the knowledge of the target audience.   Writing for posts take a lot of time and it feels unproductive if other parties do not do due diligence in their homework before they ask questions.
Sure we all WANT,  a solution answer to all our questions with blueprints to build our fabulous home OU power generator, tested & proven before we begin building.  Be aware that there are many steps in between, many wrong paths and turns.

Regards, Red_Sunset


Offline Poit

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #192 on: January 01, 2014, 09:53:35 AM »
look.. its simple, post a PDF file of instructions (a lot like the tutorials on Instructables.com). Can't do that? then you have nothing useful what so ever! obviously in regards to over unity. Sure you can post details to make a super awesome paper weight, but this forum is OBVIOUSLY about over unity, hence the domain name overunity.com

You clearly seem to think there is a debate going on... there really isn't.

Let me put it another way, you either have it or you don't. let me give you an example of having it.

For this example, "HOW TO MAKE A JOULE THEIF"
http://www.instructables.com/id/HOW-TO-MAKE-A-JOULE-THEIF-CAPACITOR-CHARGER/

Step 1: PARTS
R1-1K
Q1-D882 or any npn transistor
D1-1n4007 or any diode above 5v
toroid-you will get one from an old cfl
C1-3300uF or any other cap to be charged

Step 2: WIND THE TOROID
wind both wires togather and connect the resistor to the begining of one wire and the ending of the other wire.

Step 3: MAKE THE CIRCUIT

Step 4: FINISHED

See how there is a begining and an end... and the end is the finish product. in this case its a joule theif in the case of an over unity device it would be over unity!

IS THERE SUCH INSTRUCTIONS ??? NO!!! SO SHUT THE FUCK UP UNTIL YOU DO!

"I can state categorically that you were definitively not talking on my behalf." so you have these instructions then? enough talk, post it! let me make it clear to you that you are saying to me that you have detailed instructions on building an over unity device...... because if you do not then you "categorically" ARE included in the 7+ billion people comment idiot!

"I do realize that this forum cannot be a 1 to 1 classroom to explain everything from a-z" do you realize that you don't need to technically understand something to build it? in the joule thief example, do I need to understand how transistor functions in order to build a joule thief? NO!! so what gives? your an idiot!

"Sure we all WANT,  a solution answer to all our questions with blueprints to build our fabulous home OU power generator, tested & proven before we begin building.  Be aware that there are many steps in between, many wrong paths and turns." The point is that Grimer and others claim to have these blueprints, and it clearly bull shit! i'll eat my words if Grimers next post is these elusive blueprints he talks of!

If he and others do NOT have blueprints.. state it now and i'll shut up..

Offline Red_Sunset

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #193 on: January 01, 2014, 10:20:17 AM »

Don't you find it strange that in 10/19/2013 - Official Photo # 49 the outboard weights comes to rest on the ground during part of their cycles - the same event that takes place with the Milkovic and the Keenie. At this point the weight disappears as far as the rest of the mechanism is concerned since its weight is lost to its lever and the rest of the RAR mechanism.
.................................................................................................
.......................................................................

Hi Grimer, a Happy New Year,

I didn’t analyze in detail the RAR weight manipulation since I do not consider it directly part of the main principle (I assume).  Although the weights do play a major function in the mechanism in order to do “cost saving” and therewith increase the output.

The working forces are centered on the central shaft for gravity weight (roberval) and as a pivot for weight leverage. For the latter, the positioning of the weight ‘center of gravity’ becomes very important.
From my superficial view, the inboard weight is the main working weight (the reason for it to be most of the time in movement) and the outboard weights are counter balancing the inboard weights at certain times.  At predetermined positions, their counter balance is terminated by allowing then to rest on a ground support (angle dependency, the reason why they are not always in motion).
I can not see the RAR weight arrangement as a pendulum oscillation since it is far from free moving being constrained and controlled by locks to synchronize its movement to support the main lever mechanism.

Red_Sunset

Offline Red_Sunset

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Re: Big try at gravity wheel
« Reply #194 on: January 01, 2014, 10:37:11 AM »
....................................................................
Let me put it another way, you either have it or you don't. let me give you an example of having it.

For this example, "HOW TO MAKE A JOULE THEIF"
http://www.instructables.com/id/HOW-TO-MAKE-A-JOULE-THEIF-CAPACITOR-CHARGER/
.............................................
...........................................
If he and others do NOT have blueprints.. state it now and i'll shut up..

Peace my friend,  lets not step into the new-year on the wrong foot.

It looks we are talking cross-wired,  your expectation and objective is very different to what other people (like Grimer & me) are aiming for.

You see it purely from a "Construction viewpoint",  when other see it from a "Theoretical working" viewpoint, this might include "hypothetical assumptions" that might lead to a construction viewpoint after all in's and out's have been well brain washed.

A construction 'to do list' with a 'parts list' makes for an easy package.  The theory might assume quite a different shape.
Can you refer to the exact workings of the Joule thief that describes how and why it saves energy. Do remember also that the joule thief is supported by standard accepted science.

Shall we try a scifi Joule Thief to complicate the parts list.
Lets not over-react in 2014

Red_sunset

 

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