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Author Topic: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater  (Read 55982 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #90 on: May 13, 2013, 06:42:06 PM »
Well, you know that Ainslie is claiming that she will perform some kind of demonstration on June 1st, right? A demonstration of just what, I suppose we shall have to wait and see.

But here's a simple challenge for her and her "team": Simply repeat the demonstration shown in the second part of their earlier Demo Video, with the exact same circuit and construction layout they used then, but with all six batteries, providing 72 volts, instead of using only four at 48 volts as they did in the video (without explaining why at all, no matter how many times they have been asked.) Bring 700 mL of water "to boil" with that exact same circuit, built the same way, the same load, and 6 full 12 volt batteries. After all, that is what their "paper" claimed to do, NOT with only 48 volts.

But they won't be doing this, even though it's easy to set up, reasonable, and is what is claimed in their "paper" to have been done.

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Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #90 on: May 13, 2013, 06:42:06 PM »

Offline picowatt

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Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #91 on: May 13, 2013, 09:06:50 PM »
Well, you know that Ainslie is claiming that she will perform some kind of demonstration on June 1st, right? A demonstration of just what, I suppose we shall have to wait and see.

But here's a simple challenge for her and her "team": Simply repeat the demonstration shown in the second part of their earlier Demo Video, with the exact same circuit and construction layout they used then, but with all six batteries, providing 72 volts, instead of using only four at 48 volts as they did in the video (without explaining why at all, no matter how many times they have been asked.) Bring 700 mL of water "to boil" with that exact same circuit, built the same way, the same load, and 6 full 12 volt batteries. After all, that is what their "paper" claimed to do, NOT with only 48 volts.

But they won't be doing this, even though it's easy to set up, reasonable, and is what is claimed in their "paper" to have been done.

TK,

I could be wrong, but the way I read it, she is likely going to show that the battery voltage drops less in a given amount of time when two different load profiles are applied.  This I gather from her desire to abbreviate the time required to perform the tests. 
 
Is this proof of OU?  No.  It is only proof that a lead acid battery can have different capacities under different load profiles, even if the two load profiles produce similar average loads.

Would not proof of OU with this type of test, using batteries, require that more energy is able to be drawn from the batteries than is required to charge them?  That would require several well measured charge/discharge cycles to prove.  Not having access to the electrolyte to measure its specific gravity would make this somewhat difficult, although doing a CC charge cycle terminating with a CV charge to a predetermined minimum current might be an acceptable alternative, if repeated sufficiently.  Accurate sampling of Vcharge and Icharge would be required and calculations made to accurately determine the energy required to recharge the battery.  An RC battery A-Hr/wattmeter might be useable as charge current would be measured at DC.

However, if the "extra energy" is coming from the magnetic and material properties of the inductor as per her thesis, then why is a battery even required?  If the "extra energy" can only be observed when using batteries, does it not seem more sensible to conclude that what is actually being proven is moreso related to the vagaries of the batteries themselves?

It amazes me how little desire either of them seem to have in making their circuits work with a well filtered DC supply.  As I have suggested, a network can be inserted between the supply and circuit that would mimic the AC and DC characteristics of the battery so that the circuits will oscillate or ring as they do with a battery.  Alternately, a DC supply could be connected to the batteries and isloated with an inductor in series therewith to prevent AC loading, and the steady state voltage and current required from the supply to maintain battery voltage/charge measured and used to provide Pin. 

Proving that the circuits produce more heat when driven with a well filtered, easy to measure DC supply, than is produced when that same amount of power is applied directly to a resistor, would be much more interesting than proving that the batteries have different capacities when different load profiles are applied.


PW


   

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #92 on: May 13, 2013, 10:03:59 PM »


Would not proof of OU with this type of test, using batteries, require that more energy is able to be drawn from the batteries than is required to charge them? 
Yes, or equivalently, that the batteries do not discharge or that they even increase in charge level during the experimental run. Of course neither of these things occur in Ainslie's or Gmeast's experiments. The batteries discharge normally, and the total heat energy output by the load and the circuit does not exceed, or even approach, the energy required to charge the battery in the first place. Neither Ainslie nor Gmeast have ever shown any data that indicates otherwise. And of course when capacitors are used to power the circuits, it's easy to see that there is no magic, no overunity, no "advantage" from an oscillatory discharge, and of course the capacitors run down normally and make the "magic waveforms" all the while until their voltage drops enough for the circuit to die.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #92 on: May 13, 2013, 10:03:59 PM »
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Offline picowatt

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Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #93 on: May 14, 2013, 01:49:58 AM »
Yes, or equivalently, that the batteries do not discharge or that they even increase in charge level during the experimental run.

TK,

Even though she still does not understand how Q2 is biased on by having its source pulled negative wrt the gate, or how the DC bias current flows thru the FG, or how AC current flows thru the intrinsic MOSFET capacitances, she has, at least, apparently backed off on the cop=infinity claim.

PW

Offline poynt99

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Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #94 on: May 14, 2013, 02:24:36 AM »
My impression is that Rosemary is aiming to show that for the same heat rise on the load resistor, the DUT battery will outlast the control experiment battery, using the 10V mark as the cutoff.

She also appears to be claiming that the amp-hour (although she incorrectly states watt-hour) rating of the battery will be exceeded when used in the DUT.



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Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #94 on: May 14, 2013, 02:24:36 AM »
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Offline picowatt

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Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #95 on: May 14, 2013, 03:14:02 AM »
My impression is that Rosemary is aiming to show that for the same heat rise on the load resistor, the DUT battery will outlast the control experiment battery, using the 10V mark as the cutoff.

She also appears to be claiming that the amp-hour (although she incorrectly states watt-hour) rating of the battery will be exceeded when used in the DUT.

.99,

I assume you mean to take each 12V nominal battery down to 10V.  10V is a bit low to take a 12V battery down to.  As well, I thought I read she was going to do all this in 17 hours.  She must be using a new circuit, I thought the batteries stayed up for months upon months with the original circuit.

So how does demonstrating that a battery can have different capacities with different load profiles provide proof of OU?  Would you not agree that the energy required to charge the battery would have to be consistently exceeded in order to claim OU?

PW

Offline poynt99

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Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #96 on: May 14, 2013, 03:29:10 AM »
.99,

I assume you mean to take each 12V nominal battery down to 10V.
Yes.

Quote
10V is a bit low to take a 12V battery down to.
Agreed, but they do this very thing for generating extended discharge characteristic curves as per the 5th link I provided and the snapshot showing the A-h ratings vs. discharge currents.
Quote
The following twenty graphs show detailed discharge characteristics of the entire ODYSSEY battery line. The end of discharge
voltage in each case is 10.02V per battery or 1.67 volts per cell (VPC). Each graph shows both constant current (CC)
and constant power (CP) discharge curves at 25ºC (77ºF). The table next to each graph shows the corresponding energy
and power densities. The battery run times extend from 2 minutes to 20 hours.

Quote
As well, I thought I read she was going to do all this in 17 hours.  She must be using a new circuit, I thought the batteries stayed up for months upon months with the original circuit.
Probably not a new circuit per se, but most likely a set of much smaller capacity batteries (as we recommended years ago).

Quote
So how does demonstrating that a battery can have different capacities with different load profiles provide proof of OU?
Rhetorical question I know, but it doesn't. That was the purpose of my post.

Quote
Would you not agree that the energy required to charge the battery would have to be consistently exceeded in order to claim OU?
Of course, but that would require work...and know-how. At the present, even a proper Pin and Pout measurement is asking too much.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #96 on: May 14, 2013, 03:29:10 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #97 on: May 14, 2013, 06:32:14 AM »
It's completely futile to expect anything reasonable or rational from her. Just take a look at her latest. It's clear that she learned absolutely  nothing from the months of discussion with .99. She still cannot fathom the linear operation mode of a mosfet, she still thinks the battery is "disconnected" during the oscillations, she still has no clue about her circuit's operation or how a mosfet works.
"Take water to boil". What a fool. She cannot use her circuit, as described in her "paper" and shown in the second part of her last demo, with 72 volts input, to "take water to boil"  as she has claimed.  She cannot reproduce the problematic scopeshots we have noted with the circuit she published and intact mosfets. She can, however, reproduce those scopeshots easily enough.... simply by running her system as shown in the second half of the demo, trying to boil water, but with the full 72 volts input instead of the mere 48 she was forced to use then. Because this will blow the Q1 mosfet in short order... and then the scopeshots will look like what she published.
If she shows anything at all on June 1 -- which I sincerely doubt -- it will be even more of a farce than her last "demo".

Offline gmeast

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Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #98 on: July 08, 2013, 12:56:45 AM »
My impression is that Rosemary is aiming to show that for the same heat rise on the load resistor, the DUT battery will outlast the control experiment battery, using the 10V mark as the cutoff.

She also appears to be claiming that the amp-hour (although she incorrectly states watt-hour) rating of the battery will be exceeded when used in the DUT.


I want everyone to remember just what kind of highjacking assholes this gang of 3 really are. I started a thread about MY research of a variant of the Inductive Resistor Heater. I started that thread so I could share MY research. But what happened instead? This gang of 3 ... being TinselKoala, picowatt and poynt99, used MY thread to criticize Rosemary Ainslie's work. They opitomize a gang of 5th-grade bullies. What's amazing is Stefan Hartmann ... this forum's owner, seems to think that's OK to do.


This didn't happen just once ... it happended twice. I'm just going to keep reminding everyone of this gang's behavior as often as I can.


These three are self-proclaimed experts on just about everything ... and that's all they are ... remember that.


Please just  view my video slide show and decide for yourself. Not one of this gang of 3 ever made a valid challenge of my work other than to try and demean me by saying "... it's not work at all ... ". That was a quote from the all-knowing TK aka TinselKoala.


My video Slide Show here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q473lX-Zw1w


Thank you

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #98 on: July 08, 2013, 12:56:45 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #99 on: July 08, 2013, 01:22:57 AM »
Quote
Please just  view my video slide show and decide for yourself. Not one of this gang of 3 ever made a valid challenge of my work other than to try and demean me by saying "... it's not work at all ... ". That was a quote from the all-knowing TK aka TinselKoala.

Resurrect a thread that has been dead since mid May, just to troll and stalk? And to complain about the site owner? Amazing, but true to form.

Prove it by giving a link to where I said "it's not work at all".

Meanwhile, I can prove that YOU say some pretty wild things, GMeast.

You want me to stay out of "your" threads, fine .... then don't mention me at all, especially not with one of your baseless distortions.

And, in case you haven't noticed.... I'm not melting down at all. In fact, it's rather the other way around, isn't it. You and your patron saint have fallen out, she produced the most hum-dinger of a "demonstration" imaginable where she soundly refuted herself much better than I ever could do.... and everything I ever said about her circuit is now known to be true. And the demo has given me even more material to illustrate just how wrong Ainslie and Donovan Martin really are, and how mendacious and devious they are. You can hear Ainslie melting down live on cellphone, just by clicking a few links, and you can see her own disproofs of her claims, in spite of her trying to withhold the screen images, on "my" thread having to do with her June 29 demo. Yet I am perfectly calm.... and perfectly correct.
That infuriates you, doesn't it. And it makes me LOL.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #100 on: July 08, 2013, 01:43:59 AM »
There is a recent Gmeast quote that I find kind of funny:

Quote
The waveform put out by the Keppe motor would handily act as the controlling signal for an Ainslie Heater. So there's a potential for a SUPER efficient heater/fan system product.

For starters a Keppe motor if I recall is just a plain old boring dumb pulse motor hooked up to a fan.  So how the "output waveform" could make for a "controlling signal" for an Ainslie heater is beyond me.

As a sidelight, the fan itself is quite a creation.  They take a regular fan propeller and glue wood veneer to the fan blades so you can make yourself feel good about spending $250 for a "natural" electric fan.

Going back to Gmeast's comments, what pray tell is a "SUPER efficient heater/fan?"   What is THAT?  Last time I looked you could buy ANY space heater that uses ANY fan and it will be 100% efficient at producing heat.

Like wow man!  You can go to the local Big Box store and get a HEATER THAT IS 100% EFFICIENT.  Call Sterling up Gmeast and tell him the news!  He will get all excited and write an article about it.

And it goes without saying that TK, Poynt, and PW are highly qualified individuals with tons of knowledge and experience.  So when Gmeast calls them all nasty names and says they are stupid he is just talking crap like some angry man with no better place to dissipate his frustration.  It's a spectacle where almost everybody that reads his rants against these good knowledgeable people knows that they are full of crap.  It's just a bunch of mendacious ugly nasty negativity with no redeeming qualities except perhaps for Gmeast himself.  Meds might be a better alternative or perhaps get a Nerf bat and flail away at the walls, floor and ceiling until you are completely exhausted.

MileHigh

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Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #100 on: July 08, 2013, 01:43:59 AM »
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Offline gmeast

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Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #101 on: July 08, 2013, 02:00:44 AM »
Resurrect a thread that has been dead since mid May, just to troll and stalk? And to complain about the site owner? Amazing, but true to form.

Prove it by giving a link to where I said "it's not work at all".

Meanwhile, I can prove that YOU say some pretty wild things, GMeast.

You want me to stay out of "your" threads, fine .... then don't mention me at all, especially not with one of your baseless distortions.

And, in case you haven't noticed.... I'm not melting down at all. In fact, it's rather the other way around, isn't it. You and your patron saint have fallen out, she produced the most hum-dinger of a "demonstration" imaginable where she soundly refuted herself much better than I ever could do.... and everything I ever said about her circuit is now known to be true. And the demo has given me even more material to illustrate just how wrong Ainslie and Donovan Martin really are, and how mendacious and devious they are. You can hear Ainslie melting down live on cellphone, just by clicking a few links, and you can see her own disproofs of her claims, in spite of her trying to withhold the screen images, on "my" thread having to do with her June 29 demo. Yet I am perfectly calm.... and perfectly correct.
That infuriates you, doesn't it. And it makes me LOL.


Your response shows your colors. Your response also shows that you are indeed melting down. " ... I am perfectly calm... and perfectly correct."  + "I am, I am, I am."   It does not infuriate me, it makes me laugh.


Thank you.

Offline gmeast

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Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #102 on: July 08, 2013, 02:21:00 AM »
There is a recent Gmeast quote that I find kind of funny:

For starters a Keppe motor if I recall is just a plain old boring dumb pulse motor hooked up to a fan.  So how the "output waveform" could make for a "controlling signal" for an Ainslie heater is beyond me.

As a sidelight, the fan itself is quite a creation.  They take a regular fan propeller and glue wood veneer to the fan blades so you can make yourself feel good about spending $250 for a "natural" electric fan.

Going back to Gmeast's comments, what pray tell is a "SUPER efficient heater/fan?"   What is THAT?  Last time I looked you could buy ANY space heater that uses ANY fan and it will be 100% efficient at producing heat.

Like wow man!  You can go to the local Big Box store and get a HEATER THAT IS 100% EFFICIENT.  Call Sterling up Gmeast and tell him the news!  He will get all excited and write an article about it.

And it goes without saying that TK, Poynt, and PW are highly qualified individuals with tons of knowledge and experience.  So when Gmeast calls them all nasty names and says they are stupid he is just talking crap like some angry man with no better place to dissipate his frustration.  It's a spectacle where almost everybody that reads his rants against these good knowledgeable people knows that they are full of crap.  It's just a bunch of mendacious ugly nasty negativity with no redeeming qualities except perhaps for Gmeast himself.  Meds might be a better alternative or perhaps get a Nerf bat and flail away at the walls, floor and ceiling until you are completely exhausted.

MileHigh


OOPS! I was wrong .... it's the Gang Of 4. What ... are you a shrink or something? I'm not frustrated at all, in fact I have gotten great joy watching the responses. BTW ... talk about calling nasty names, I suppose you condoned the filth that TK spewed in his rhetoric about Ainslie ... not that I care now.  At the time, that was OK though ... right?  Double standard. Why am I not surprised by that.


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #103 on: July 08, 2013, 02:59:40 AM »
Gmeast:

I don't condone the nasty name calling on any side.  But I made a conscious decision to not involve myself beyond a certain limited point in this affair because this is just history reviving itself.

I am just interested in the truth coming out.  The truth is that a self-described old lady that saw some oscillations on a scope display due to measurement error and got all excited for nothing.  The whole thing is completely meaningless when you look at the big picture.  However, there are some important principals at stake that are worth defending if you choose to go there.  Once this nonsense reaches it's proper conclusion Rosemary will be spent and the whole thing will quickly be forgotten.

Going back to the trash talk, you step it up a notch such that it is extra ugly and corrosive and at the same time just more silly untrue nonsense waiting to go into the memory shredding machine.

This will all be forgotten before too long.  The academics will never "get engaged."

MileHigh

Offline gmeast

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Re: Exploring the Inductive Resistor Heater
« Reply #104 on: July 08, 2013, 03:59:49 AM »
Gmeast:

I don't condone the nasty name calling on any side.  But I made a conscious decision to not involve myself beyond a certain limited point in this affair because this is just history reviving itself.

I am just interested in the truth coming out.  The truth is that a self-described old lady that saw some oscillations on a scope display due to measurement error and got all excited for nothing.  The whole thing is completely meaningless when you look at the big picture.  However, there are some important principals at stake that are worth defending if you choose to go there.  Once this nonsense reaches it's proper conclusion Rosemary will be spent and the whole thing will quickly be forgotten.

Going back to the trash talk, you step it up a notch such that it is extra ugly and corrosive and at the same time just more silly untrue nonsense waiting to go into the memory shredding machine.

This will all be forgotten before too long.  The academics will never "get engaged."

MileHigh


I don't care about Ainslie's stuff, her oscillations, 'the academics' or anything else for that matter. I care about the variant I built, tested and my attempt to post my results here ...... PERIOD ... and the right to do that without being attacked by "      " and "     " and "     " and you because I have a variant of Ainslie's heater. I didn't mention the Gang Of 3's names (or yours) in this reply because "           " said he'd stay out of this thread if I don't mention his name. And that's fine ... he's irrelevant to my work and irrelevant to most everything else honest experimenters are doing.


Well Ainslie HASN'T been 'forgotten' for more than 10 years, so don't think she's going anywhere soon ... and as I said, "I don't care".  I've conducted dozens of identical tests who's results justify the further exploration of a heater using an element possessing Inductive and Resistive characteristics.  I have no working theory, but I have consistent test results which I have attempted to share.


Stay out of this thread. I don't need your feedback or input. You have already made up your minds about many OU projects that people have attempted to share in good faith and conscience in these forums. Someone needs to tell you that NO ONE HAS ASSIGNED YOU GUYS TO BE THE WORLD'S FILTER for technologies that have potential to benefit mankind ... though it seems you have self-appointed yourselves to that task. 


Thank you

 

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