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Author Topic: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".  (Read 390996 times)

Offline jbignes5

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #420 on: July 17, 2013, 02:24:28 PM »
does anyone here see a switching device


 Look at point G. Lower coil. It says suitable source of current.

 In the second paragraph he tells of the source of currents.

 "In endeavoring to adapt currents or discharges of very high tension to various valuable uses, as the distribution of energy through wires from central plants to distant places of consumption, or the transmission of powerful disturbances to great distances, through the natural or non-artificial media. I have encountered difficulties in confining considerable amounts of electricity to the conductors and preventing its leakage over their supports, or its escape into the ambient air, which always takes place when the electric surface density reaches a certain value."

 Now lets look at his fix for leakage of higher voltage examples.

 http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-514,167-electrical-conductor

 Do not connects this sheath to ground directly. Always go through an inductance or capacitance or do not connect it to ground at all.

 Now back to this topic.

 "In order to attain my object and to properly increase the capacity of any given coil, I wind it in such way as to secure a greater difference of potential between its adjacent turns or convolutions, and since the energy stored in the coil—considering the latter as a condenser, is proportionate to the square of the potential difference between its adjacent convolutions, it is evident that I may in this way secure by a proper disposition of these convolutions a greatly increased capacity for a given increase in potential difference between the turns."

 This is and will be the only reason of this coil. I have never asserted that DC should be used in this coil. In fact AC and impulse currents would be the only beneficial currents to use. With Impulse currents not even looked at for this coil in the patent. I have never asserted that the proper resonance not be used in either case. Why one would be focusing on the non resonant condition to me would be so inefficient that it would be counter productive. In order to use impulse currents one needs to use the resonant condition. But as Tesla talks about in the first example "The Tower" you must bring the system slowly up to resonance and then hold it there. This increases the efficiency as it nears resonance and will stop excessive break down events.

 My further experiments have always been in the AC/impulse direction. With very high frequencies for the AC/Bifilar coil and Impulse around the Bifilar coil as an Exciter.

 This will be my direction that I am going in. If the two types of current AC/impulse is kept in synchronization it should have a Laser like amplification of the current exiting the bifilar coil.

 As for other claims I will let others experiment on those claims. There is no point in "Debating" these claims because the debaters have not done the experiments. So they can not argue the validity with no proof. They can postulate till their hearts desire but it is only guessing at this point with no real evidence to the contrary.

 As for the claims of increased magnetism it does make sense from the descriptions of the patent but this also comes with increased current and then a diminishing of that current over time. But I have not done the experiments to those claims so I can not say anything about those claims and it would bear little resemblance to reality without actually doing the experiments.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #420 on: July 17, 2013, 02:24:28 PM »

Offline sparks

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #421 on: July 17, 2013, 04:40:08 PM »
        You guys really don't have to go through all the trouble of building a T coil to understand it's operation.  Dollard's analogue computer is pretty much one.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BnCUBKgnnc

Offline jbignes5

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #422 on: July 17, 2013, 04:52:59 PM »

 I would also like to comment about Eric's position on things. Eric has built devices on the subject of Tesla. But like in any other field those who do not understand the Technology or don't even care to build the actual devices will never understand the principles of those devices, they tend to destroy any attempt to build and show those principles. Eric has had many of labs and many many components stolen or destroyed by the ones in power. I can not refute such claims and tend to believe them because Eric has never, in all my days of investigating Tesla or the claims of Tesla and the work of eric, lied about anything in his videos.
 Lets check this video out about a strange device which does two things. A: It establishes he has been replicating Tesla devices or methods. B: That others have gone to great lengths to destroy anything showing proof of those experiments. Except for some video's that he has saved.


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtM6rJxs0uM

 I am not claiming any validity to the claims yet. But again I will be looking into these claims at a later date.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #422 on: July 17, 2013, 04:52:59 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #423 on: July 17, 2013, 09:06:30 PM »
"I'm looking at testing the difference with my rotor. Will have the rotor set in a position and arrange the coils for 1 timed pulse and see how far around it goes for either regular or bifi coils. A pendulum would be interesting also. Have a magnet as the weight of the pen, and mount the coil to the base facing the resting magnet and see how far the pen moves on impulse."


This approach should pay off. "Moves on impulse"! That's the ticket. This test will vindicate everything I've been saying. The biflilar will outperform the single wire with it's stronger magnetic collapse field! 



 

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #424 on: July 17, 2013, 10:44:53 PM »

The biflilar will outperform the single wire with it's stronger magnetic collapse field!

 

Honestly, I would be very pleased to see such result!

Gyula

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #424 on: July 17, 2013, 10:44:53 PM »
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Offline poynt99

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #425 on: July 17, 2013, 11:37:51 PM »
If the bifilar pulser does outperform the conventional coil pulser, then I would recommend an input power measurement comparison to be sure there is no discrepancy. With the higher turn-to-turn capacitance it might be possible that the bifilar coil is being energized to a higher level on each pulse.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #426 on: July 18, 2013, 01:34:19 AM »
If the bifilar pulser does outperform the conventional coil pulser, then I would recommend an input power measurement comparison to be sure there is no discrepancy. With the higher turn-to-turn capacitance it might be possible that the bifilar coil is being energized to a higher level on each pulse.

Yes, this could be the case. I imagine it so really. Once they have been tested for any difference in pulse and rotor motion, if I send one pulse to the coils, using a charged cap as the source to see how far the rotor goes, then we can calculate from what is left in the cap. Those 2 tests together would say one way or the other pretty much. To further the test, rigging a way to measure the amount of energy induced into the rotor motion. Will have the single wire coils done soon and then I have to mark and drill the rotor for magnets.


I find it fascinating that Lasersabers motor even moves with 5v  20kohm of series coils and 1ua usage. Its really one for the science books I would say. It has changed the way I envision what certain amounts of power can do in a sense. It kinda makes an LED running at 30ma seem like a huge amount of power in comparison. Like if LS's motor were made larger or stacked lets say in parallel connection, it would take a lot of stacks to get 30ma consumption. And I would have to say that at 30ma, from what I have seen, it would be pretty powerful.  ;)

Mags

edited something little that didnt make sense. :o ;D
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 05:40:40 AM by Magluvin »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #426 on: July 18, 2013, 01:34:19 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #427 on: July 19, 2013, 02:45:01 AM »
It's quiet around here, perhaps we are waiting for some test results.  So I will go back and comment on my question and the answer.

The question:  You have an ideal inductor of three Henries.   You connect the inductor to an ideal voltage source of seven volts.  What will happen?

The answer:  i = 7/3 t

So the current flow is zero when the voltage source is first connected (t = 0).  Then the current rises in a linear ramp, at one second, the current is 2.33 amps.  At two seconds, the current is 4.67 amps.  After ten minutes, the current is 1400 amps.

Notice that as time goes on, more and more power is being pumped into the coil.   At one second, the power flow into the coil is 16.33 watts.  At ten minutes, the power flow into the coil is 9800 watts.

The coil is soaking up all of this power supplied by the voltage source and storing it.

A mechanical inductor is simply a flywheel that spins on a a high quality bearing.  You substitute the voltage for torque.  You substitute the current flow for angular velocity.  You substitute the inductance for the moment of inertia.

The question could have been rephrased:  You have a flywheel on perfect bearings with a moment of inertia of three kilogram-meters-squared.  You connect a constant torque source to the flywheel of seven newton-meters.  What will happen?  I am sure that you can all imagine what will happen if you think about the flywheel example.

People talk about doing all sorts of fancy lab experiments and Tesla impulse experiments but they can't even answer a basic question about how a coil functions.  That means there is a good chance your lab experiments are just going to be a fuzzy walk down a garden path of your own creation, and not real research.

I'll give another example.  Nowadays most people are just average Jow Blows when it comes to performing maintenance on their car engine.  They open the hood and see a network of hoses and cables, you can barely even see the engine block.  It's not like looking under the hood in the 1960s.  They have no clue what the majority of those hoses are.  The average Joe Blow does not have the umbilical connector and equipment to jack into the engine computer and read the error codes and interpret them and know what action to take.  So the average Joe Blow would not even consider doing an engine overhaul, it's just too complicated and outside of his area of expertise.

But on the forums, people that don't understand the basic building blocks of electronics are more than happy to do "research" into high frequency impulse effects and play with coils, etc, etc.  A wise person would want to master the basics before doing that.  That ties into the whole "intense" debate that transpired here.  Not one person was willing to say, "I don't know the answer but I would like to learn."

So we can now return to the quiet time on the thread and wait for results or whatever...

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #428 on: July 19, 2013, 05:11:00 AM »
It's quiet around here, perhaps we are waiting for some test results.  So I will go back and comment on my question and the answer.

The question:  You have an ideal inductor of three Henries.   You connect the inductor to an ideal voltage source of seven volts.  What will happen?

The answer:  i = 7/3 t

So the current flow is zero when the voltage source is first connected (t = 0).  Then the current rises in a linear ramp, at one second, the current is 2.33 amps.  At two seconds, the current is 4.67 amps.  After ten minutes, the current is 1400 amps.

Notice that as time goes on, more and more power is being pumped into the coil.   At one second, the power flow into the coil is 16.33 watts.  At ten minutes, the power flow into the coil is 9800 watts.

The coil is soaking up all of this power supplied by the voltage source and storing it.

A mechanical inductor is simply a flywheel that spins on a a high quality bearing.  You substitute the voltage for torque.  You substitute the current flow for angular velocity.  You substitute the inductance for the moment of inertia.

The question could have been rephrased:  You have a flywheel on perfect bearings with a moment of inertia of three kilogram-meters-squared.  You connect a constant torque source to the flywheel of seven newton-meters.  What will happen?  I am sure that you can all imagine what will happen if you think about the flywheel example.

People talk about doing all sorts of fancy lab experiments and Tesla impulse experiments but they can't even answer a basic question about how a coil functions.  That means there is a good chance your lab experiments are just going to be a fuzzy walk down a garden path of your own creation, and not real research.

I'll give another example.  Nowadays most people are just average Jow Blows when it comes to performing maintenance on their car engine.  They open the hood and see a network of hoses and cables, you can barely even see the engine block.  It's not like looking under the hood in the 1960s.  They have no clue what the majority of those hoses are.  The average Joe Blow does not have the umbilical connector and equipment to jack into the engine computer and read the error codes and interpret them and know what action to take.  So the average Joe Blow would not even consider doing an engine overhaul, it's just too complicated and outside of his area of expertise.

But on the forums, people that don't understand the basic building blocks of electronics are more than happy to do "research" into high frequency impulse effects and play with coils, etc, etc.  A wise person would want to master the basics before doing that.  That ties into the whole "intense" debate that transpired here.  Not one person was willing to say, "I don't know the answer but I would like to learn."

So we can now return to the quiet time on the thread and wait for results or whatever...

Quiet? 8 posts since yesterday morning. ???   But I can say it was a nice break from your insulting, degrading, page filling posts. :P

Maybe its that nobody wanted to give you the time of day in answering your question. :'(

Gyula surely knows the answer. I know the answer. Im sure Syncro and Jbigs know also. So now you have answered yourself. After reading your self answer, ive gota say, what is your point? Is it that without the resistance you wanted to demonstrate infinite current climb in the inductor over time? Is that it? All those pages of repeatedly hashing out, "Answer my question!!!"    ::)    Now that was a waste of time. Big time.


You dont think I understand the relationships between an inductor and a flywheel? Well, that was a year ago or so, and we know you have memory problems that you deal with, on a daily basis at times ;) , soo, if you cannot remember the thread, let me know and I will help you out there if need be. ;)

"People talk about doing all sorts of fancy lab experiments and Tesla impulse experiments but they can't even answer a basic question about how a coil functions.  That means there is a good chance your lab experiments are just going to be a fuzzy walk down a garden path of your own creation, and not real research."

All talky and no walky?   ;)   Yeah yeah, I know, its been 30 years.You dont have to say it again. ::)   Ill do it for you when its appropriate. ;D


"I'll give another example.  Nowadays most people are just average Jow Blows when it comes to performing maintenance on their car engine.  They open the hood and see a network of hoses and cables, you can barely even see the engine block.  It's not like looking under the hood in the 1960s.  They have no clue what the majority of those hoses are.  The average Joe Blow does not have the umbilical connector and equipment to jack into the engine computer and read the error codes and interpret them and know what action to take.  So the average Joe Blow would not even consider doing an engine overhaul, it's just too complicated and outside of his area of expertise."

Oh really?  Jow Blows? lol  Mr Perfect you are. 

Yeah. These cars today are a mess. But they are not as bad as what I am working on at my job. ;)

We received a 1965 mercedes that the customer had at another shop for 5 years and $430,000 into it thus far. The car is painted, no interior, no lights, no bumpers, no trim, piles of wire on the floor all over, some cut, stripped, some marked, some not, bare wires here there everywhere.

Open the hood and what do we see. A 5.0 10cyl twin turbo engine from a VW Touareg, all nice and neat, and tight. :o The things is a sleeper. Race suspension, Jag rear end, just sick.

The customer pulled the job from the other shop because they wanted another $50,000 to finish it. :o :o

Inside the car, wires and plugs for modules all over. No harnessing except for what goes out to the engine bay. Like the guy that did the engine bay wasnt on crack, but the other guy working on the inside was on crack. Or the engine bay guy had just started crack when he got to the interior. ;D

The first week I went through all the rats nest and fixed up some general harnesses to get things in some sort of order. They had wires going direct to other places just twisted in a mess. Located the 8 of over 20 Touareg modules, and installed them to their plug connector locations, only after careful study over the wiring diagrams from Mitchel and internet info, as some plug connectors were the same here and there. Also there are 2 ECU's, 1 for 1/2 of the motor and the other for the other half. They are not interchangeable according to info in the internet, but the part numbers are the same, go figure. They were marked 1 and 2 as were the plugs.

First issue was no power to just about everything. All the original power control modules and relays were replaced with DIY. The Touareg has some big relays and lots of them, but we dont have 4wd anymore, no traction control, airbags, electronic suspension, second fuel pump, etc etc. We only have 2 ECU, steering control module, Accessory start module, comfort module, Lighting module and the gauge cluster, which is considered a control module, and finally the transmission control module.

After checking for power at my power relays, the biggest one had no b+ to be switched on. So I traced the wires back to the batteries in the trunk. Well the power wire for the relay was taped up in the harness near the batteries, as if it were never to be used. With an eyelet connector ready to connect to the + side of the battery, where there are many other wires already. Supposedly the other shop had it running before we got it. Hmmm, well it couldnt have run with that wire all 'hidden' like that. ;)

So now we have 'some' power, for some things. Electronic ign switch did nada except allow me to remove the key by turning it to the left first. That was the only thing that worked. But I had powers to other things that didnt have it before. I hooked up the VAGCOM VW interface to the diagnostics connector to see what it might show up. I had communications to the steering module and thats it. ???

I went over all the modules to check for power, grounds. All were good except for the gauges. Once I got power going to the gauges, all I got was an initialization screen on the lcd and still no communications to it or the other modules. I physically checked all data lines between modules. All seemed to be ok where they were joined together by the other shop and all went to the plugs of the modules they were suppose to. There are 3 sets of data lines, only 2 used here.

So now I checked to see if the data lines were possibly shorted to each other or to gnd. Like maybe a module could have been bad, etc.  Well well, 1 set of data lines were shorted. So I start unplugging modules 1 by 1. Bamo, acc/start module was the problem. I checked the 2 pins according to the schematic and no short to be found. ???
I then opened the plug connector cover to see the actual wire pinouts. Hmm, the data lines were not there in the terminal holes they were suppose to be in. They were in 2 blanks according to the diagram. So I removed the retainer clip that holds all the pins in the connector and put them where they were suppose to be. Badabing, we have liftoff! ;D   We now have communications with all modules. But no start. Starter runs and runs but no ignition. Its diesel by the way.  These guys at the original shop swapped the data lines in the acc/start plug connector so that the next shop would have a real problem getting things going. ;) Well they didnt know I was in town. ;D ;)

The power wire was another slick move by them, but amateurish move in comparison. There were others also, like relays on the harness that passed through seat mounting frame works in the floor, but no relays or gnd connections. If I didnt go over 'every' wire, I might not have found those relays. The wiring in that area looked complete and tied up. These guys rigged it up for disaster for another shop.

There were many wires that were not terminated yet. Some were marked, like fuel sending unit, windshield washer fluid level, etc, all things that I did not put any time into yet, because if I cant get the engine running, all else does not matter.

So I went over the wiring between modules pin to pin. All seemed ok.
I cleared all the codes(9 of them) and the fans made a different sound. They were lower in freq. I said hmm, give it a shot. It started!!  yay!!   Actually it scared me. I wasnt expecting it. This engine isnt quiet.  But once I shut it off, I was back to square one, no restart. But if I clear the codes, she starts. After doing some programming and eliminating things like EGR, etc. which isnt on the motor any longer, and getting rid of airbag processes and other things that wont be needed(the gauge cluster was a literal christmas tree beforehand, she still didnt restart without clearing codes. I cant clear 1 code at a time to isolate code and symptom. We had a guy that knows this stuff. He and I did a lot of research and he has a lot of friends at VW. We got a lot of good info but no non-restart answers. Nobody wants to even come and look at it. They dont like this motor much and all of them said that it was idiotic to do a conversion with that engine.

After some research, Frank and I came to a conclusion. It came down to the possibility that ecu 1 and 2 could be swapped and were marked incorrectly by the other shop. Examining the schematics, each ecu had identical wiring for 'some' things, not all. All the guys at VW said if we swapped them, the 'immobilizer' would be set off and the car would have to be sent to them and they have to communicate with VW servers in Germany, bla bla bla. Lets put it this way, about $500 min.

But we did it anyways. Badabing again!!!  She runs and restarts!! 

Now we are finishing up the other wiring beyond the engine requirements and finish the rest of the car.


So Milehigh oh so high, you can take your Jow Bow and put it you know where. :o ;)

Who do you think your messing with? I can blow your mind with what I know about cars.  I dont answer your ridiculous questions because I know that it doesnt mean much in the end. I know how coils work. Yet you yap and yap and yap on about the simple things. Well Im beyond that and going further. I know you dont have the ability to go beyond the walls of your box. But Im not going to follow your lead, of which is distracting and full of balony half the time. Its a waste. It was nice here for a day. And now your back. ::)



"A wise person would want to master the basics before doing that. "

More insults. ::)



"So we can now return to the quiet time on the thread and wait for results or whatever..."

The only reason it 'seemed' quiet is because you were not filling 2 pages a day with your so called 30 years ago expertise, and convenient forgetfulness where you see fit. ;)

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #428 on: July 19, 2013, 05:11:00 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #429 on: July 19, 2013, 05:39:55 AM »
You are one piece of work Magluvin....

The question was posed for a valid reason, Jbignes5 made two postings filled with nonsense and disinformation whose roots stem from the "we are into 'alternative' electronics that conventional science doesn't understand" angle.  That was the disinformation and the basic question illustrated that point.

The person that insults and degrades is you, and you make a fool of yourself when you do it.  You didn't know the answer, no chance Synchro1 or Jbignes5 did.  If they knew they would have answered.  So you are lying.  Even the fact that you would claim they knew shows how low you are willing to stoop.  Everybody with half a brain sees through you - you make these ridiculous nonsensical statements where everybody knows you are lying, including you yourself.  It's pathetic.

Quote
we know you have memory problems that you deal with

Do you have any self-respect Magluvin?  That crap is the worst of the worst, just like watching awful gratuitous spinning on a political talk show by some sleazy out-of-control political hack.  It's gross and you are demeaning and degrading yourself when you act like that.

You talk about filling up the thread and then you give us a big treatise on working on a car???  The pot calling the kettle black.

Quote
So Milehigh oh so high, you can take your Jow Bow and put it you know where.

Making a jackass out of yourself.  Taking a hypothetical example that anybody can relate to and talking about your own occupation.  That's just mindless logic that anybody can see through and you keep on digging that hole for yourself.

Mastering the basics is sound advice, not an insult.  More mindless nonsense from you.

Before I jumped back into this thread it was going nowhere and nobody even talked about the basic parameters for the coil.  Nobody dealt with what the self-resonance was all about, including you.  You had no concept and kept on confusing the AC and DC operation and I taught you.

You can take your whole sleazy and lying post and shove it up your exhaust pipe.  Be a man and not some MileHigh attack troll.  Get yourself some self respect and character.

MileHigh

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #430 on: July 19, 2013, 07:28:35 AM »
You are one piece of work Magluvin....

The question was posed for a valid reason, Jbignes5 made two postings filled with nonsense and disinformation whose roots stem from the "we are into 'alternative' electronics that conventional science doesn't understand" angle.  That was the disinformation and the basic question illustrated that point.

The person that insults and degrades is you, and you make a fool of yourself when you do it.  You didn't know the answer, no chance Synchro1 or Jbignes5 did.  If they knew they would have answered.  So you are lying.  Even the fact that you would claim they knew shows how low you are willing to stoop.  Everybody with half a brain sees through you - you make these ridiculous nonsensical statements where everybody knows you are lying, including you yourself.  It's pathetic.

Do you have any self-respect Magluvin?  That crap is the worst of the worst, just like watching awful gratuitous spinning on a political talk show by some sleazy out-of-control political hack.  It's gross and you are demeaning and degrading yourself when you act like that.

You talk about filling up the thread and then you give us a big treatise on working on a car???  The pot calling the kettle black.

Making a jackass out of yourself.  Taking a hypothetical example that anybody can relate to and talking about your own occupation.  That's just mindless logic that anybody can see through and you keep on digging that hole for yourself.

Mastering the basics is sound advice, not an insult.  More mindless nonsense from you.

Before I jumped back into this thread it was going nowhere and nobody even talked about the basic parameters for the coil.  Nobody dealt with what the self-resonance was all about, including you.  You had no concept and kept on confusing the AC and DC operation and I taught you.

You can take your whole sleazy and lying post and shove it up your exhaust pipe.  Be a man and not some MileHigh attack troll.  Get yourself some self respect and character.

MileHigh

"You are one piece of work Magluvin...."

Why thank you. ;D Surely you jest. ;D


"The question was posed for a valid reason, Jbignes5 made two postings filled with nonsense and disinformation whose roots stem from the "we are into 'alternative' electronics that conventional science doesn't understand" angle.  That was the disinformation and the basic question illustrated that point."

Jbigs is doing his thing. He is doing something that you cant get a grip on because most all you know about Tesla is from a documetary that you dont remember much of, like you said earlier in this thread. ;) You belittle Tesla like a book that doesnt exist. You either know nothing, or you do know and just dont want to throw any credit his way, or some newbies might get on the net and look up some of the stuff Jbigs is talking about. :P



"The person that insults and degrades is you, and you make a fool of yourself when you do it.  You didn't know the answer, no chance Synchro1 or Jbignes5 did.  If they knew they would have answered.  So you are lying.  Even the fact that you would claim they knew shows how low you are willing to stoop.  Everybody with half a brain sees through you - you make these ridiculous nonsensical statements where everybody knows you are lying, including you yourself.  It's pathetic."

Oh really. You knew they would have answered?   Do you know how many times I have seen you repeatedly insist and reinsist again and again and again for people to answer your questions, over and over, because you didnt get an answer? lol  You just dont get it do you. You just cant get it through your thick goop of a skull that people dont want to answer your questions. You act as if the thread cant go on unless someone answers you. Screw you. Your pathetic. ;)



"You didn't know the answer"

Dude Ive done a LOT of sim work on this stuff in the past year. I know that resistance must be factored into an inductor or transformer to come close to real world components. If I dont include that resistance then its just fantasy land, like Jbigs said earlier about it, and he is right, we will never experience your fantasy.  Again, what was the BIG point of your question anyways? I dont get the point other than you 'trying' to belittle the intelligence of these nice people here.

What if someone did answer you? Then what??  Would you say "ok then, carry on, this thread inspection is complete" ::)   No, you would then take it a step further with a new question, and pages of you repeating and so on and so forth.

If someone did answer, and then answered your next step question, and the next, and the next, all until a time that you finally know and or believe that we get it now, then what? What if we still continue to experiment with expectations of possibly more than what you know?  Would we have to start at square one again because we could not possibly understand anything if we continue our endeavors into the forbidden world of Tesla??  Get a grip man. Gees. ;) When does it end? Ill tell ya when it ends. When they stop posting because you drove them off. You have been banned before.  ;) Lets just say it was because you were unlikeable. :P



""Do you have any self-respect Magluvin?  That crap is the worst of the worst, just like watching awful gratuitous spinning on a political talk show by some sleazy out-of-control political hack.  It's gross and you are demeaning and degrading yourself when you act like that"

Well its true isnt it? Shall I call the pose and we go back and look for how many times you have used the bad memory shtick?  There was one just the other day on the thread about Rose Ainslie. Its not hard to find them as they are plenty. ;)


"You talk about filling up the thread and then you give us a big treatise on working on a car???  The pot calling the kettle black."

I was making a strong point.  ;) You want answers, Im giving them to you, my way. ;)


"Making a jackass out of yourself.  Taking a hypothetical example that anybody can relate to and talking about your own occupation.  That's just mindless logic that anybody can see through and you keep on digging that hole for yourself."

No. You were implying that nobody here could work on a car because they know nothing about the basics of inductors. ???   Joe Blows  Jow Blows  and Joe blow.  Jow Blow   Ok one more time,  Joe Blow..   Idiot

If it were so hypothetical, then explain the connection of ideal inductor science and todays automotive repair? You will not find a meter in the automotive repair 'industry' that measures inductance. Not one. Call up Snap-on, Matco tools, they will be like, 'umm wut?' ;) Actually, if you can give me a single example of an auto tech that needs to measure 'inductance' or is even ever concerned about 'inductance' I will give you a dollar. lol  Actually a dollar for each one.



"Before I jumped back into this thread it was going nowhere and nobody even talked about the basic parameters for the coil.  Nobody dealt with what the self-resonance was all about, including you.  You had no concept and kept on confusing the AC and DC operation and I taught you."

You still have no clue. Im not looking for self-resonance.  Im not confused about anything. Its a pulse motor. DC pulses. If there is AC resonance at a particular rpm then so beit and we will check out what happens there also. Im looking for the coil to pop out a mag field faster than a normal coil. Is this not what I have been saying here or what?  Im not talking about back with Romero or Zeropoint132, Im talking about here and now.

Basic parameters of the coil?  I tell ya what. Here are some basic parameters. You go wind 2 coils 26awg 500turns, one regs and one bifi and you go right ahead work out those parameters.  Let me know what your bifi neasures in inductance compared to the regs jimmy. Ill be waiting for your answers and I wont be patient. ::) ;) Should I hound you each day for those answers? It works for you doesnt it? :P



"You had no concept and kept on confusing the AC and DC operation and I taught you."

Show me where you taught me!!  You always want us to prove things, well here is your 15 min of fame. Show me where you taught me as you state!!!  And THIS, I will hound you about till you come clean on that one jack. Count on that. ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


"You can take your whole sleazy and lying post and shove it up your exhaust pipe.  Be a man and not some MileHigh attack troll.  Get yourself some self respect and character."

Lying? Really??  Well Ill just have to take pics tomorrow of the 'dark green metalic' Merc and show you all the lies I told. Lies in HD.   ;)    Oh dont you worry if Im a man or not, lol , just have them answers on the page tomorrow you ole slicker you.


Mags








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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #430 on: July 19, 2013, 07:28:35 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #431 on: July 19, 2013, 08:00:20 AM »
Magluvin piece of work part 2:

Jbignes5 was saying incorrect things and he was rightly challenged.  He asked me to pose the question because he wanted to take me up on the challenge.  And then he claimed that he answered it but he didn't.  He falsely claimed that a few sentences embedded in a paragraph were the answer.  The point of the question was to show that Jbignes5 did not have a mastery of the basics so that beginners would take a second look and consider all views on the subject.  The goal was to make the thread realistic and not your typical fantasy thread.

Kiss my ass about the memory issue.  It's crap and you know it.  If you think from now on you are going to try to claim I have "memory problems" all the time then you are just making a jackass out of yourself.  So I am asking you to stop it right now.

Quote
No. You were implying that nobody here could work on a car

Pure garbage, self-degrading idiocy on your part.  Fool talk from a person that pretends he can't understand a hypothetical example.  Why are you playing stupid?  You are not scoring any points like that.  How low can you go?

Quote
Actually, if you can give me a single example of an auto tech that needs to measure 'inductance' or is even ever concerned about 'inductance' I will give you a dollar. lol  Actually a dollar for each one.

Have you been hit in the head with a 16-ton weight like in a cartoon?  I think you need to bang your head again to get back to normal.

Quote
You still have no clue. Im not looking for self-resonance.  Im not confused about anything. Its a pulse motor.

This thread is not about your pulse motor.  You only introduced that very recently.  Wake up!

Quote
Should I hound you each day for those answers?

Yeah you could hound me if I agreed to answer your question, then didn't actually answer your question, and then claimed that I did answer your question.  But I am not going to answer your question so the whole thing is moot.

Quote
Show me where you taught me!!

It happened just a few weeks ago where I corrected your mistake.  Remember I reminded you that you didn't have enough character or integrity to even thank me?

Quote
pics tomorrow of the 'dark green metalic' Merc

We are not talking about your car work Magluvin, still more nonsense from you.

You are doing a great job of digging yourself deeper into that hole.  Stop trolling me Magluvin.

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #432 on: July 19, 2013, 08:12:42 AM »
Here is the example you asked for Magluvin, it's from July 4th:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Magluvin:

Quote<blockquote>The difference between the 2 voltages is 2500%.  And the parts of my post you neglected to reply on explain percent levels up to 60,000% difference. Not beating on you here but I think those are important and very significant numbers while we are having this conversation. </blockquote>

I read all of your comments I just responded in a generic way at the beginning of the posting.  If you try to measure the capacitive energy in the SBC coil it will be interesting.

Quote<blockquote>So in 'reality' , there is nothing high freq about 60hz, is there? Now replace that 100nf cap with a 1uf cap. What would our operating freq be then? Pretty much subsonic.  So maybe we can ditch the fact that we are only limited to high freq operation, as long as we have large enough bifi inductance in our motors.</blockquote>

It may be possible, but I seem to recall various testers getting their coils to self-resonate in the hundreds of kilohertz to megahertz range.  I don't know how big you want to go but it sounds to me like 60 Henries is one big mother of a coil.

If you can get low frequency resonance, what do you want to do with that coil?

Quote<blockquote>The way I see it, if we want to use high inductance coils in our pulse motors, more than likely the rise time of the coil is going to be slow, limiting the max potential of its field strength within the time allotment of on time of the switch. Depending on the speed of the motor and switching of course.</blockquote>

You are actually suggesting a good experiment.  Test different drive coil configurations where you vary the inductance.  Is there a 'sweet spot' for the drive coil inductance?

Quote<blockquote>So by 'neutralizing' the self inductance of a very high inductance coil, we eliminate rise time in the coil. The coil will produce max field much faster than a regular coil, giving a sharper pulse than a normal coil of similar inductance and be able to shorten the on time of the switch being we dont have to wait for the field to build like a normal coil.</blockquote>

Another issue worth revisiting.  You are not visualizing this properly.  The 'neutralizing of the self inductance' relates to the coil acting as a band pass filter for an AC signal.  At the resonance frequency the complex impedance will drop to zero and you will be left with just the wire resistance.  When you talk about rise time in the coil this is for the coil acting in a pulse circuit, a different animal.  You will have to wait for the field to build in an SBC coil the same as in a normal coil as a the voltage starts to overcome the inductance and gets it to move.  We know that the SBC coil and the same-sized normal coil have approximately the same inductance, and thee is no short-cut like you believe.  You are mixing apples and oranges.  Check it out for yourself on the bench.


Quote<blockquote>Having the capacitance distributed throughout the coil with much higher potential levels between turns can draw in current through the coil, especially if the capacitance is between turns that are not physically connected electrically just 1 turn away. I believe a normal coil has an inrush of current in relation to its very tiny capacitance's in series from one end of the coil to the other.</blockquote>

That sounds reasonable to me.  It's hard to know exactly what the dynamics are for the SBC coil and capacitive charge distribution in the coil and how the current might flow, etc.  It may be next to impossible to measure because any current associated with charging the inter-loop capacitance may be superimposed on the main current flow as the inductor energizes.  You sound like you want to do the investigation and it should be fun.  I think looking for differences between a standard coil and an SBC coil, same dimensions, same wire and turns, would be your best bet at detecting something of note.  I don't think you have a DSO but you might have a USB scope?  That would come in handy.

Just to look at this one more time:

Quote<blockquote>Here is something to think about. If we have an LC and we apply a voltage across its ends, what would happen immediately? The cap would charge, and fast. So if you think a bifi coil is the same as just a coil with a cap across it, then you must believe that the capacitance in the bifi would do the same, correct?  And where is that capacitor in the bifi coil?  Its in the coil!!  (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/wink.gif) With the bifi we have just neutralized the self inductance of the coil and current would flow instantly.</blockquote>

Here is the problem in a nutshell:  Even though the capacitance is there, the current still has to corkscrew though the coil.  So on its way to charge the inter-loop capacitance the current still has to overcome the inductance and push it along.  The dynamics of it are not trivial.

Here is something that may be applicable to visualize what is going on.  You take the analogy of inductance as the massless spring and capacitance as the mass.   So an LC resonator is like a massless spring affixed to a concrete wall on one end and to the oscillating mass on the other end.  Imagine that setup about pallet-sized with a big 100-turn mechanical spring made out of thin Berryllium and a 10 kilogram mass on a very low friction surface oscillating back and forth at about 5 Hz. Let's assume that the spring is not too stiff hence the low oscillation frequency.

We know pure inductance is represented by a massless spring.  But you have a real-world spring you know it's made of a loop of wire with windings that have mass.  Mass is capacitance, and the SBC coil has inter-loop capacitance.

So, it's very possible that a real-world spring with mass would be a decent model for how an SBC coil behaves.  So imagine kicking that big spring and watching it vibrate and wiggle in a kind of random and unstable way until it rings down completely and stops moving.  Even think of doing something similar as a kid with a Slinky, where you pull the slinky tight and then pluck it to send waves bouncing back and forth through the loops.  It's possible that the SBC coil will behave like that in the electrical domain.  You never know...

MileHigh
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I guess you forgot.

MileHigh

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #433 on: July 19, 2013, 08:13:24 AM »
"It happened just a few weeks ago where I corrected your mistake.  Remember I reminded you that you didn't have enough character or integrity to even thank me?"

Thats easy enough to spit out as some sort of proof. Thats why I said to provide links and quotes. But you did not include that in your quote of me above, selectively of course. ;) Thats a good example of how you work, and the good readers will learn from that. ;D

Show me the quotes and links.

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #434 on: July 19, 2013, 08:14:59 AM »
Prove what you say otherwise its useless.  ;) Right? :P

Mags ;D

 

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