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Author Topic: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".  (Read 391147 times)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #390 on: July 15, 2013, 05:30:29 AM »
What's your preliminary test plan for comparing your regular coils vs. series bifilar coils in your pulse motor?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #390 on: July 15, 2013, 05:30:29 AM »

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #391 on: July 15, 2013, 12:55:00 PM »

....
And that's very similar to what was taking place on this thread before I joined it and got involved in the debate.  Between myself and Gyula and others we cleared up a lot of these issues and educated people.  And that's a good thing and the more healthy debates you have on the forum, the better off we all are.


Hi MileHigh,

My tests shown with the electromagnets built on bolts proved that the lifting forces are identical for a single and a bifilar winding coil, using the same length of wire and core for both WHEN a steady state DC current is the input to both type of electromagnets.

Tesla obviously meant to drive his bifilar coil at its self resonant frequency with AC current (or probably pulsed current) and this has not been tested. Tesla wrote the advantage of driving the bifilar coil at its resonant frequency we all read it.

The question now is how a resonantly driven bifilar coil could be utilized to have energy advantage over a non bifilar equivalent single coil?  Only further tests can give answers.

Gyula

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #392 on: July 15, 2013, 01:59:16 PM »
   If you have a couple of hours free in both time and mind I think you will find the below videos quite interesting if your into electrical fields.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZZmFY9W4eg

Almost 4 hours of presentation by Professor Eric Dollard and not a single device which would show at least the boldest of his claims.

It would be the most effective demonstartion of any bold claim to show a device which works and to demonstrate the claimed theory step by step. But that never happens, only 4 hours of warm, not even hot air.

What amazes me is that people like Dollard can go on like this for decades. It is like self proclaimed healers who never heal but still make money.

I admit to be intrigued by "magic claims", and many must be like me, otherwise the people who make "magic claims" would be long out of business.

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #392 on: July 15, 2013, 01:59:16 PM »
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Offline sparks

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #393 on: July 15, 2013, 03:01:34 PM »
   I found it interesting and more inspirational than progressive.  Entertaining?

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #394 on: July 15, 2013, 03:42:58 PM »
Hi Gyula.

Quote
My tests shown with the electromagnets built on bolts proved that the lifting forces are identical for a single and a bifilar winding coil, using the same length of wire and core for both WHEN a steady state DC current is the input to both type of electromagnets.

Tesla obviously meant to drive his bifilar coil at its self resonant frequency with AC current (or probably pulsed current) and this has not been tested. Tesla wrote the advantage of driving the bifilar coil at its resonant frequency we all read it.

The question now is how a resonantly driven bifilar coil could be utilized to have energy advantage over a non bifilar equivalent single coil?  Only further tests can give answers.

Nothing will come of this.  Chances are that Magluvin has no preliminary test plan, he is just going through the motions.  All of Jbignes5's grandiose claims about the coil are simply unfounded claims with nothing to back them up.

Sure they can get Tesla series bifilar coil to self-resonate, but so what?  There will be no energy advantage to find with this coil no matter what test they do.

It's time to let the boys play with their toys until they get fed up.  Nothing will come of this.  The whole business of "pushing forward" no matter what the rational analysis says is just belligerence for the sake of belligerence.

In a way this is just a microcosm version of the whole RomeroUK or the Mylow affair.  Lots of energy expended on the threads and in this case perhaps a few builders and testers, all for naught.  Some of them even have a decent grasp of the issues at hand, they read this thread, but they will solder on and sleepwalk through it, knowing beforehand that there is no light at the end of the tunnel.

Somebody might declare "victory" because they find that the coil is "different."  ho hum

The sad thing is that some people don't want to look at things rationally.  They don't want to be educated and take advantage of all that we have learned over the past 150 years.

We can sit back and watch the blinking lights and watch the builders go through the motions.  There is a decent chance that nobody will report anything.  Attempts to do a rational analysis and take a realistic look at this coil have failed at least in the public image of what has transpired on this thread.  However, I bet you that the silent majority that follows this thread in the background knows the real deal.

MileHigh


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #394 on: July 15, 2013, 03:42:58 PM »
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Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #395 on: July 15, 2013, 09:55:50 PM »
To those who are busily working to get
their "builds" going it may seem that
MileHigh is needling.

MileHigh is usually correct about the
technical misconceptions he is striving
to set straight.  He truly is attempting
to encourage fruitful thought and beneficial
research efforts since real knowledge will
ultimately lead to greater success and
the avoidance of costly mistakes.

It's an ages old phenomenon;  those who
try to help others see their error are
frequently thought to be busybodies and
irritants.  At least, until wisdom finally
takes up residence.  We have a tendency
to want to cling to "our beliefs" no matter
what.  Admitting wrong is very painful.


Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #396 on: July 15, 2013, 10:18:36 PM »
Everything I explained about "Impulse Magnetization" has been ignored. JLN demonstrates %100 energy transfer between his serial pancakes with no heat loss what so ever in his Gegene experiments. Regular coils would fry if you attempted that. Stop trying to trivialize these differences, and the way his coil for electro magnets worked had nothing what so ever to do with running D.C. current through the coil.   



             

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #396 on: July 15, 2013, 10:18:36 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #397 on: July 15, 2013, 11:08:18 PM »
SeaMonkey thank you for your kind and wise words.

Synchro1, I have always encouraged people to experiment with this coil, notwithstanding what others try to say in some kind of Orwellian nightmare.  You have to look at this coil configuration and take it at face value and then do some experiments.  This notion that there is some "secret sauce" associated with this coil stems from the fact that there is a Tesla patent and the "Cult of Tesla" comes into play.  When you actually look at the coil "on paper" you can deduce how it will operate in real life with a high degree of confidence.

Quote
JLN demonstrates %100 energy transfer between his serial pancakes with no heat loss what so ever in his Gegene experiments. Regular coils would fry if you attempted that.

Oh really?  How do you know that "regular coils would fry?"  See, you are just making it up to try to bolster your claim.  You are playing the "Cult of Tesla" game when you say that.

Let's look at the issue of two coils coupling with each other without any core material.  We are going to assume that the application is not a power coupling application since there is no core.  We will assume that it is a signal coupling application.

Well, if you wind two separate wires together on a spool then you have a bifilar coil.  And in this case I mean a true bifilar coil with two separate wires.  That should give you pretty good coupling.  However, the coil-to-coil capacitance is relatively high and may become an unwanted annoyance here.

What if you have two separate coils and you want to couple them?  Should you put two pancake coils facing each other?  The answer is no, there is a serious limitation for coupling when it comes to pancake coils.  The inner coils are small and will not cut as much flux as the outer coils.  On the other hand, two regular coils with a narrow length or "z" dimension facing each other will couple much better.  They also won't have all of that nasty flux-self cancellation that you get in a pancake coil.  Every loop in the "sender" coil will generate a nice blast of magnetic flux through the same circular aperture.  Similarly, every loop in the "receiver" coil will "catch" almost 100% of the flux being generated by the "sender" coil.  There will be no significant coil-to-coil capacitance to deal with in this case which might be highly desirable for your signal transmission application.

So what that means is for pure AC coupling applications without a magnetic core, and using two separate and distinct coils, that ordinary vanilla circular loop coils will most likely outperform pancake coils in most if not all applications.

Another point worth mentioning is that I am still being very generic in my comments, and generic comments when it comes to electronics can be dangerous.  For example, if you are doing a signal coupling application, what frequency range are you trying to couple?  That's probably the most important question and it must be answered as part of the process of either selecting or designing a coil.

So the moral of the story is to examine each case on it's own merits.

The second moral of the story is that there are literally thousands of configurations of stand-alone coils and transformers.  They are available in all sorts of shapes and sizes depending on the application.  For all I know you may be able to purchase a commercial off-the-shelf coil as per Tesla's patent assuming that there is an ultra-niche application for that configuration.  However, my gut feel is telling me that it is highly unlikely.

MileHigh

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #398 on: July 16, 2013, 12:06:18 AM »
You're a chronic pain and a fraud. Try to understand this and stop trying to defraud everyone with your "Cult Paranoia"!


The Tesla series bifilar has zero reluctance to change in current direction. Running A.C. through a regular coil generates heat because the single wire coil reluctance to change in current direction is greater then zero. They would smoke with JLN's input. Stop trying to pretend the coils act the same way. You're so dead and stupid wrong you should get help with your persistent delusions!    

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #398 on: July 16, 2013, 12:06:18 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #399 on: July 16, 2013, 12:22:58 AM »
Synchro1:

I am telling you like it is and it's hard to decipher what you are saying technically.

Quote
Running A.C. through a regular coil generates heat because the single wire coil reluctance to current change is greater then zero. They would smoke with JLN's input.

Can you explain that some more because I can't make head or tail of what you are saying?

I think I may have gotten it now.  You are equating inductive reluctance to resistance and assuming that will heat up the wire. That's wrong and just shows that you don't understand how a coil works.  The inductive reluctance is there because the coil is building up a magnetic field.  The energy is not heating the wire, it's building up the magnetic field.

Honestly Synchro1, with statements like that, you need to lean the basics.  Books, YouTube, surf the net, do something.

You have the delusions when it comes to this stuff, but you can get up the learning curve if you really want to.  It's all up to you.

MileHigh

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #400 on: July 16, 2013, 12:45:59 AM »
Look, get Gyula to run 9 volt A.C. through his iron core biflilar and test the magnetic pull and heat. Then try and run that same 9 volt A.C. current through the single wire version, then compare the heat and pull to the bifilars. I can tell you right off the bat that the single wire coil will very shortly grow too hot to touch, while the series bifilar remains cool! Why don't you try it "Hawkings"? Practicly everyone has tried to run A.C through a single wire electromagnet and caused an electicel fire. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #400 on: July 16, 2013, 12:45:59 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #401 on: July 16, 2013, 12:52:11 AM »
Everything I explained about "Impulse Magnetization" has been ignored. JLN demonstrates %100 energy transfer between his serial pancakes with no heat loss what so ever in his Gegene experiments. Regular coils would fry if you attempted that. Stop trying to trivialize these differences, and the way his coil for electro magnets worked had nothing what so ever to do with running D.C. current through the coil.   
             

Hi synhcro1,

Yes I agree, Tesla's Coil for electromagnet patent had nothing whatsoever to do with running DC current through the coil. However, it was you who brought the paper clip tests with the nails into this topic as an example, remember? And in that link http://www.tesla-coil-builder.com/bifilar_electromagnet.htm  it was no where mentioned that the nail should be treated first by Impulse Magnetization i.e. first you make a permanent magnet from the nail and then pick up the paper clips, right? Please show me where it is written?

PS here is a permanent copy of the content of the page in above link because sometimes the link does not work:
http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Reference_Material/Bifilar_Electromagnet.pdf

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #402 on: July 16, 2013, 12:55:21 AM »
Quote
Look, get Gyula to run 9 volt A.C. through his iron core biflilar and test the magnetic pull and heat. Then try and run that same 9 volt A.C. current through the single wire version, then compare the heat and pull to the bifilars. I can tell you right off the bat that the single wire coil will very shortly grow too hot to touch, while the series bifilar remains cool! Why don't you try it "Hawkings"!

If it was only that simple.  You are not specifying the frequency.  Nor can you just compare two coils like you are stating.  You are not even discussing how much inductance each coil has.

Beyond that, Synchro1, the resistive heat produced in the wires in all honesty is not a valid way to compare the two coils.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #403 on: July 16, 2013, 01:00:10 AM »
"Resistive heat produced in the wires in all honesty is not a valid way to compare the two coils."


This is utter rubbish! 

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #404 on: July 16, 2013, 01:06:58 AM »
If you want make a case for your statement Synchro1, by all means go ahead.

Just a few sentences will not be a strong case.  Please, do a half-page or do a full-page or more write-up to explain your reasoning.

 

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