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Author Topic: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".  (Read 390980 times)

Offline jbignes5

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #360 on: July 14, 2013, 12:04:30 AM »
 I am going to say it one more time. You are out of your field here. I did not say EM waves. I said Longitudinal waves which is a whole different beast then your lossy EM wave. The longitudinal wave only goes one way. It does not travel back an forth like an EM wave. Hence the term longitudinal. Look it up and stop saying things about what you don't understand.


 EM waves travel back and forth in the up and down method. Longitudinal waves travel out and not back you know radiance and not oscillatory.

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #360 on: July 14, 2013, 12:04:30 AM »

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #361 on: July 14, 2013, 12:30:21 AM »
Jbignes5:

Quote
As for your assertion that the bifilar coil is a normal inductor is disinformation. This is not true and the simple video shows that proof that I provided. When compared to the reception and broad casting ability there is a clear difference between the bifilar pancake coil and a normal solenoid pancake coil. In order to get a spark to jump a gap there is a threshold of voltage one has to breach. This is usually in the 30Kv per CM. In the example in the video the solenoid had 1mm of spaceand could not fire very well and in the bifilar coil it was 2mm and fired very well. This is not a magnetic coupling. It is an electric coupling because it was using a High voltage supply with a rotary break machine to create the impulses from the High voltage very low current being supplied.

It's not disinformation.  What I said is that the "bifilar" coil specific to this patent will be marginally different from a similar regularly wound coil.  For example, when you use it as the drive coil in a pulse motor you will not see any difference.  Whne you use it as an electromagnet you will not see any difference.  If you check the self-resonant frequency it will be lower than a similar regularly wound coil, but that in itself is not significant.

Quote
When compared to the reception and broad casting ability there is a clear difference between the bifilar pancake coil and a normal solenoid pancake coil.

See here is where we have a gap.  I know that you post these generalizations and believe them.  If there is a difference that's fine, but you have to have some specifics.  Do you really have data to back that up?  I would not be surprised is there are differences.  But for sure there are other coil geometries that will have their own unique differences.  "Different" is not the same as fawning over the coil patent and claiming all of these amazing attributes.  Also, I will point out to you that there is no mention of the application to radio transmission/reception in the patent at all.   There are all sorts of coil-type configurations in antennas, there is no special claim to fame for the Tesla patent in this case.

Quote
Again you are out of your field here and I respectfully ask you to stop the bullying tactics.

Honestly I feel that you are bullying me so think about that.   Sometimes if you post something outrageous I am aghast and you might get a strong comment from me, but I am not trying to bully you.  This is the real world and you can expect some push back if you state what I consider to be an outrageous statement.

Quote
There was even a method to do analogue computers to help with that analyzing which showed that capacitance converts current to longitudinal energy and coil convert current to the magnetic. But I don't expect the great OZ to understand anything of these analogies or methods because they did not teach you to think, only to follow what they were telling you.

What I can tell you is this.  If you brought a real RF engineer into the discussion about this demo then a lot of light would shed on this issue.  I am not an RF engineer, but I believe that when an EM wave propagates, the electrical and magnetic components of the wave can be on any set of axes, including the "Z" axis in the direction of propagation.  By the same token what does "longitudinal" really mean if the two components have to be at right angles to each other?  i.e.; if the electric field is along the z axis, the "longitudinal" component, then the magnetic field has to be in the x-y plane, which is definitely not longitudinal.   Same thing if you have the magnetic on z then the electric has to be in the x-y plane.  Have you ever thought about that?  You can't equate longitudinal sound waves with EM waves.  I am no EM wave propagation expert but I seriously doubt that you or the vast majority of posters extolling the virtues of longitudinal waves have ever even considered this basic fact.  The root cause of that is the idea that you can leap-frog past a science or engineering education or self-education and just read Tesla and the chat boards filled with Tesla enthusiasts were most of them are in the same situation.  It just doesn't work like that in the real world.

Quote
As for the input power well how much power does a 10kv machine take to operate? 200-500 ma?<-this depends on the size of the transformer or the design of the transformer. This is because it converts current into higher voltages and usually chokes the current of the source. Duh even a first grader knows that...

You are not making any sense here at all at all at all.  Here is were you are showing your serious limitations by trying to be dismissive of making power measurements.  It's simply ridiculous and yes you deserve the strong language here.

Quote
Do not compare us to those scammers <-This is yet another tactic you guys apply to scare people away from investigating the claims of others. I have neither asked no one to do this work or tried to sell anything at all. I am doing this to investigate Tesla's work and that is the point of this thread. I also know the dangers of regular currents and know the non dangers of Tesla's longitudinal energy. Since there is little current in it it has no power to hurt anything if done properly. And this is the point I would like to bring up again. You have to use this in the proper methods for it to become harmless. Tesla informed us that 2k impulses a second is where it becomes harmless or even from his claims beneficial in the electric field around the device. Anything lower and it becomes dangerous, with a single impulse a second having very damaging results.

I have no doubt that you are sincere and not a scammer.  But you also have to be sincere with respect to your electronics knowledge and bench experience if you intend on testing stuff on the bench.  Your comments about "regular currents and know the non dangers of Tesla's longitudinal energy" are problematic.  I am not sure but 2 KHz may be the lowest frequency for a safe skin-effect for doing the standard AC Van der Graff generator demo.  But beyond that demo, any discussion about "longitudinal energy" and practical real-world applications would have to be analyzed on a case by case basis.

Again, good luck with your testing, but please look at what your instruments are telling you and take it at face value.  There may be some interesting applications that you can demonstrate that may have practical uses.

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #362 on: July 14, 2013, 01:02:31 AM »
Jbignes5:

Quote
I am going to say it one more time. You are out of your field here. I did not say EM waves. I said Longitudinal waves which is a whole different beast then your lossy EM wave. The longitudinal wave only goes one way. It does not travel back an forth like an EM wave. Hence the term longitudinal. Look it up and stop saying things about what you don't understand.

 EM waves travel back and forth in the up and down method. Longitudinal waves travel out and not back you know radiance and not oscillatory.

For starters I am assuming that we are talking about some kind of wave propagation in air or in space, not along a pair of wires.  is this correct?  If yes then by definition we are talking about some kind of electromagnetic wave.  Do you disagree with that statement?

"Longitudinal" means "in the same direction of the movement."  So if a wave is moving in the z direction then something is oscillating on the z axis.  Do you have a different definition?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/longitudinal+wave

Quote
longitudinal wave
n
(Physics / General Physics) a wave that is propagated in the same direction as the displacement of the transmitting medium

Can you give me some links about longitudinal waves to look at?

Quote
EM waves travel back and forth in the up and down method. Longitudinal waves travel out and not back you know radiance and not oscillatory.

Seriously Jbignes5, the quote above is you stepping into the Tesla Twilight Zone for me.  Waves travel in a medium and the components of the wave oscillate back and forth -> a wave.

So if you hit the end of a wooden 2"x4" longitudinal waves travel down the 2"x4".  But it's not the same for any kind of electromagnetic wave traveling in air or empty space.  The electric and magnetic components have to oscillate and they are at right angles to each other.

So if you want to educate me with a few of your favourite links that would be great.  But I am not feeling what you are saying at all.  It appears to me that this is an artificial construct in your mind to "make all the Tesla puzzle pieces fit together."  That's a dangerous thing.  Here is an example from real life:  The Bedini enthusiasts say that the back-EMF spike is "radiant energy" when in fact it's not.  It's a lie, it's an artificial construct to "make all of the Bedini puzzle pieces fit together."  So you get self-propagating ignorance in that particular case.

Quote
Look it up and stop saying things about what you don't understand.

Here is the issue Jbignes5:  It's possible that I don't understand and I am ignorant.  It's also possible that what I posted about the electric or magnetic component being in the z direction is considered a longitudinal wave.  But it's also possible that the whole notion of longitudinal waves like you are discussing them is just an artificial construct among Tesla enthusiasts where I am going to assume the vast majority of them are not electromagnetic propagation experts.  It's possible that it's all false with no substance.  It's a reality that may be unpleasant for you, but it is a distinct possibility.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #362 on: July 14, 2013, 01:02:31 AM »
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Offline jbignes5

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #363 on: July 14, 2013, 03:30:53 AM »
 There are many versions of the longitudinal waves in the main stream. But when talking about impulses and longitudinal waves within the electric field it transforms to a radiant field. The external electric field energizes the object or target and it radiates the impulses back out from the object if it is not segmented. This is the exact method that nature uses to impart energy to an object. There is not energy inside of the object because it follows static laws and not electrodynamic laws as you retort verbatim.


 In fact they are finding this out on the massive scale like in our solar system. The focus is our sun and it radiates the energy back out from that point. The solar system is considered as a body in space or as a unit. The entire value of potential is centralized at the point of our sun and the solar winds are the flow of charges radiating out from that point towards the edge of the body that is our solar system. Every body in fact takes a portion of the total value that the solar system has and radiates to a degree that value based on the amount of medium that that body displaces. This is how solar gravity works. Every body has a central point as well where great amounts of movement cause heating and even magnetic effects. The magnetic is not the genesis of anything if anything it is a great loss of the value of this potential field along with heat. But those are mere conversions of this potential. The conversion is based solely on matter and if there were no bodies in this space it would be dark and most void like.

 Look up the Thunderbolts project.

 Like I said impulses do not oscillate they go from a central point and radiate out with for a lack of a better word for it finger like extensions from the body. The field is instantly on and off and that is not an oscillation of the traditional sense. It is an exciter field. The excitement comes from having full potential to no or near no potential and travels faster then the speed of light. If it didn't then light would not know how to move or which way to go in a sense. So the field has to go before the light for it to propagate.


 Lets do an experiment here. We all know that each form of matter has a standing potential when in the medium. This is because each atom displaces the medium with a different density and is energized by that same medium. This difference will actually cause a flow of current within a piece (wire) of matter like copper between the two pieces of matter. The copper could be considered the balance conductor at that point or focal point between the two pieces of matter. This is exactly what led us to the crystal batteries experiment. And the evidence is very strong that we are converting the radiance of our planet into a flow of real current to light an led. Yes it is not strong and no there is little galvanic process with the current tests being done.


 So we have a limitless supply of energy if we only have the foresight to admit we were wrong about certain aspects of our current science.


 But there is much opposition to even look into this stuff and I suspect that two things are at the root of the problem. One is pride and the other is greed. The pride in "thinking" or "believing" you have the right position on things is a very nasty egotistical belief. If we had viewed this from the correct aspect all along then we wouldn't be in the position we are in today. If we understood the true nature of our environment we would have seen things correctly and not have to make up concepts like the electron to explain the errors in our science and the subsequent math to support those logical fallacies. In fact I truly believe that the ancient societies knew way more then our own ego's will let us believe. They knew about the real composition of matter and it's relation to it's environment. That all energy is not within the matter but external and matter is only a filter or converter and reflector (reradiator) of external energy of the medium we live in.


 The greed part is that they use it to harness our own energy and contain us in little boxes while always figuring out new ways to extract more and more as time goes on. We are taught from day one that there is no free lunch but yet our solar system has been going for a billion years without one bill. We are schooled in their ways and as we have found out this creates a pay as you go mentality. They hammer it into our heads on a daily basis and formerly teach us this slavery system.


 But as we are finding out there is a free lunch. We just have to change our views on things and get with the program nature is trying to teach us. Through experimentation we will find the answer but that means doing the experiments in a way that works and not in the same old same old mentality. Magnetic fields and EM waves will never net us anything but losses. But charge an object that is designed to hold charge and it will stay charged forever. The electric field is the answer and we need to devise ways that allow us to convert at the load this electric field without losses in the transmission. Yes the transformation will have some losses or changes from electric to heat and magnetic fields but even then we are becoming better in our designing of devices to utilize the magnetic field more efficiently like in the example of the Joule thief.


 Lasersaber has done much work in experimenting with this concept and the joule ringer is the outcome. We just need to get past this magnetic worship and move on to much better concepts. Tesla was one for increasing the voltage to a point that almost no loss was associated with his "Transmitter" The magnification came from energizing the mass of the world and increasing the resultant ability to run multiple(millions) of current converters through the capacity of the world. Each impulse would energize the space around the world through this electrode capacitance of the world itself without harm to us or anything living. Yes it will disrupt "normal" devices because they were not designed to work on the system he envisioned. If we try to do this now it will destroy a great many devices in the world but those devices are tied to a system that is based on a lossy theory (Magnetics and EM theory). It is designed as such so we have to continuously have to pay to keep it running. And this is the crux of the problem and the bane of our society.


 Since I don't condone breaking others peoples stuff we must develop different methods to obtain the same outcome and it can be based on the method I have described above. A more natural way also that is much better for us and the environment. A more passive way as well that amplifies the current systems we already have and maybe get more out then in.


 You talk about measurements and reporting correct data and that has been my aim the whole time. But we will have to change our devices to measure this kind of energy. It is not as simple as hooking up a current technology meter to our device and expecting a readout that makes sense. In most cases like has been seen that the device will fail and after a bit will break because it can not handle the capablities needed to analyze impulse and radiant effects. So both new devices have to be devised to handle this stuff. Even Tesla had to have modified static voltage measuring devices to correctly analyze the effects of longitudinal energy.


 My first move is to experiment with this coil. I have done preliminary experiments that shows me that it works well with longitudinal energy or impulses. It is the best antenna for impulses because it has almost no feedback as shown in the short video showing the differences of using either a solenoid vs Bifilar coil as the broadcaster antenna. But I suspect that geometry plays a role in how you excite the bifilar coil. From around the coil on the same plane an impulse field will effect the current flowing in the bifilar coil augmenting it's output. and not the way the guys was showing for the bifilar coil as a receiver.


 My experiments will tell the truth.

 As for you insisting I didn't answer your question well to be honest I did and you are ignoring the post. Go back and reread my posts after your question and you will see. This is the problem with you, you don't read anything you paraphrase it and then spout some sill thing like you are wrong. Like I said I don't rightly care what you "Think". To me you just regurgitate what they have taught you if you ever learned anything in your life. You don't check the facts like in the video I showed that you thought was credible and 75% of the video was BS. So go back and check the video again and then check the facts not the information in your mind that was fuzzy or you couldn't remember right.

 I mean thats why I keep telling you you are out of your field here. Your memory is bad and half of what you think you remember you make up in some kind of logical fallacy.

 As for proof by experiment lets look at this video which is similar but different.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPWVbTk5Z9Q

 There is a lot of work out there already. You just have to do the research then of course replicate it to prove it to yourself.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #364 on: July 14, 2013, 09:11:28 AM »
Jbignes5:

I am not going to comment too much on your unusual view of the solar system and the displacement pressure stuff and longitudinal waves and related matters.  I am just going to make select comments.

Quote
But when talking about impulses and longitudinal waves within the electric field it transforms to a radiant field.

"Radiant field" is a meaningless term unless you state exactly what you mean by that.

Quote
And the evidence is very strong that we are converting the radiance of our planet into a flow of real current to light an led. Yes it is not strong and no there is little galvanic process with the current tests being done.

I read something the other day were they sad that the "crystal batteries" are nothing more than galvanic current and the moisture was being provided by the air.

Quote
We are taught from day one that there is no free lunch but yet our solar system has been going for a billion years without one bill.

Yes I am familiar with that idea that the solar system must be powered.  I still in a way find is shocking that people that are ostensibly interested in science in one form or another make statements like this.  All of the planets are in a perpetual free fall around the sun.  Do you get that?

Quote
Lasersaber has done much work in experimenting with this concept and the joule ringer is the outcome. We just need to get past this magnetic worship and move on to much better concepts. Tesla was one for increasing the voltage to a point that almost no loss was associated with his "Transmitter" The magnification came from energizing the mass of the world and increasing the resultant ability to run multiple(millions) of current converters through the capacity of the world. Each impulse would energize the space around the world through this electrode capacitance of the world itself without harm to us or anything living. Yes it will disrupt "normal" devices because they were not designed to work on the system he envisioned. If we try to do this now it will destroy a great many devices in the world but those devices are tied to a system that is based on a lossy theory (Magnetics and EM theory). It is designed as such so we have to continuously have to pay to keep it running. And this is the crux of the problem and the bane of our society.

If only the fantasy you write about above was true.

Quote
In most cases like has been seen that the device will fail and after a bit will break because it can not handle the capablities needed to analyze impulse and radiant effects. So both new devices have to be devised to handle this stuff.

Honestly I view the statement above as a complete and total cop-out.  You guys have been talking about this stuff for years and years and saying that you can't measure it and need new measuring devices.  Well, WHERE ARE THEY?  I have a very cynical view about this.  I view it as a curtain to hide behind.  "We think we know it's thee but we can't measure it."  It's like saying I have a $400K sports car but you just can't see it.  It's too convenient and if the enthusiasts say it and believe it among themselves then you are basically giving the scammers Carte Blanche to use it too to pull off their cons.

To be continued in part 2.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #364 on: July 14, 2013, 09:11:28 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #365 on: July 14, 2013, 09:33:24 AM »
Part 2.

Quote
My first move is to experiment with this coil. I have done preliminary experiments that shows me that it works well with longitudinal energy or impulses.

Well, I look forward to the day when you can share your data.  By the way, you don't have any kind of "monopoly" on "impulses" like you seem to imply.  Your "impulses" are really and truly nothing special.  What's a computer motherboard?  Billions and billions of impulses per second with controlled slew rates.  They are not strange and unique to what you guys play with like you seem to be suggesting.

Quote
As for you insisting I didn't answer your question well to be honest I did and you are ignoring the post.

Here is the question again:  You have an ideal inductor of three Henries.   You connect the inductor to an ideal voltage source of seven volts.  What will happen?

Will yo do me the courtesy of copying and pasting your answer here?  Because I sure as hell don't see an answer from you and I am suspecting that you are going to say something like it is in one of your linked clips or linked references and I should go look there.  That will not cut it. I have now asked you three times for your answer.

Quote
Your memory is bad and half of what you think you remember you make up in some kind of logical fallacy.

That is not true in the least bit.  Please don't cynically take advantage of my honesty.  By the same token, you dug up the transistor story and tried to use it against me.  I gave you a full explanation in my reply and you did not even acknowledge it.  Plus in that thread I also acknowledged my mistake and apologized.  Being a real person on the forums takes character and courage and it's unfortunate we see so much weak-kneed spinning at times.  Let's not play silly pi**ing in the wind games.  Is that a deal?

Quote
As for proof by experiment lets look at this video which is similar but different.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPWVbTk5Z9Q

Honestly, there is nothing in that clip at all.  It's just the same old pulsing coil deal a la Bedini.  Tinman has another year under his belt now and I am willing to bet you he knows what major mistake he made in that clip at this point in time.

My gut feel Jbignes5, is that if you share your bench work and make YouTube clips and are prepared to discuss them here, then you are going to be in for a shock if you are willing to engage with people like me.  I have watched a lot of pulse motor and other clips and I have never seen anything out of the ordinary.  That's often the crux of the matter when you have a beginning experimenter.  The circuit under test is doing exactly what it is supposed to be doing but the experimenter mistakenly makes fragile tenuous connections with the esoteric stuff that you see on the forums.

Looking forward to seeing your answer.

Milehigh


Offline jbignes5

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #366 on: July 14, 2013, 03:00:12 PM »
Jbignes5:

I am not going to comment too much on your unusual view of the solar system and the displacement pressure stuff and longitudinal waves and related matters.  I am just going to make select comments.

"Radiant field" is a meaningless term unless you state exactly what you mean by that.

I read something the other day were they sad that the "crystal batteries" are nothing more than galvanic current and the moisture was being provided by the air.

Yes I am familiar with that idea that the solar system must be powered.  I still in a way find is shocking that people that are ostensibly interested in science in one form or another make statements like this.  All of the planets are in a perpetual free fall around the sun.  Do you get that?

If only the fantasy you write about above was true.

Honestly I view the statement above as a complete and total cop-out.  You guys have been talking about this stuff for years and years and saying that you can't measure it and need new measuring devices.  Well, WHERE ARE THEY?  I have a very cynical view about this.  I view it as a curtain to hide behind.  "We think we know it's thee but we can't measure it."  It's like saying I have a $400K sports car but you just can't see it.  It's too convenient and if the enthusiasts say it and believe it among themselves then you are basically giving the scammers Carte Blanche to use it too to pull off their cons.

To be continued in part 2.

MileHigh


 My unusual view of the Universe is from this group of scientists who are actually looking at the Universe not with theories but with their eyes and then explaining what they see with real data and results of real experiments. They are rewriting the logical fallacies that we all have been subjected to our entire lives with facts.


 http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/


 I suggest you read and listen and educate yourself to the truth.

It doesn't matter what I think about radiance. Go look it up, it is very clear what radiance is both in my usage of the term and it's meaning.

 You read counter logical fallacies posed by people who have not done the experiments. In fact the galvanic response is exactly what they were and are trying to remove from the crystal batteries. Again you only remember what lets you support your logical fallacies. In the current experiments the galvanic response has been all but removed from the experiment. A very very small percentage of the power is done through galvanic response. But you read one little blurb and wow it all about galvanic response. Then again I encourage you to actually do the experiments and see for yourself. I have done the experiments, in fact I am still doing the experiments.

 First we have to do the experiment then find out what the problems are in testing the devices. There is an order to doing experiments. First you must ask ta question. Then design the experiment that might answer that question. Then an accurate way of measurement must be designed to test it without damaging the test equipment. I have not gotten that far yet in this experiment because I have to sit here and defend my position to someone who just "for fun" Likes to poke holes in everything one says without doing one experiment themselves. Because you don't know the terminology or even the method that we are talking about then how can you state anything at all about these investigations?

 This brings me to your reasons to do as such. There is a great force behind the current views that you hold so sacred. The theories make huge sums in cash and if Tesla was right and we find a way to live without slaving our lives away it will destroy the little bubble you guys live in. You know the ones who are making huge amounts of cash from US. You state you are a professional in the engineering field. You make your stream of cash on us and will protect that stream with every last breath. That includes making logical fallacies to support your income stream. We on the other hand are here to free humanity from scumbags like you. You lie with every breath and when shown those lies close your eyes and continue on with the attacks of credentials and logical fallacies ad numb. I for one will not be answering your tripe anymore after this last batch of posts. I have better things in my life to attend to. Like my experiments. You do this for "Fun", we are doing this to free ourselves from the likes of your kind that only feed off of our hard work like the parasites you are.

 You ask all kind of questions and this is because you are outside of your field as I have said many many times. You continue to ask these questions and post after post counter with your logical fallacies without even going to this great bank of information they call the internet. Research the field before saying one more thing. If there are terminologies you don't understand then go out and find your answers. One tip don't just look at one results when looking into this field. Research is not just cherry picking the answer that falls to your "Thoughts". it should be a consensus of information or at least a majority of the information agreeing.

 You also need to stop looking at the videos we post as just in and out measurements. There is a lot being said about the comparison video of bifilar vs. solenoid style coils. Of which you did not even pick up on and which I have been trying to point you towards. But the problem is that this is what you guys do time and time again. Instead of looking at the video and seeing the interesting thing he was trying to point out you make assumptions and instantly move to the input output argument. It is starring you in the face and despite all others efforts to point you in the right direction you harp on other aspects instead of what was the point of the video.

 Again I will stop answering your posts and you can stop "challenging" my posts which the challenge is utter BS.

 As for the ideal this and the ideal that well IDEAL=MADE UP. It is not real in any sense of the word. There is no such thing as an IDEAL anything. That is only a suppression tactic put out by people who do not like transients. They remove the transient from the equation and then don't have to deal with it. IDEAL=FAKE=MADE  UP or NOT REAL. Hows this for an ideal situation. You not being here messing with our investigations and experiments. Now that would be an ideal situation. Go have "fun" somewhere else and let the big boys experiment in peace with out disruptions and delay tactics or logical fallacies. This is not a healthy debate because in order to debate you must know something about the opposing sides take on it. You are just posing counter attacks without even knowing the terminology or concepts for which we are trying to experiment on.

 Again I call out your reasoning for doing as you are doing and that is two things GREED and PRIDE.

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #366 on: July 14, 2013, 03:00:12 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #367 on: July 14, 2013, 07:25:55 PM »

 My unusual view of the Universe is from this group of scientists who are actually looking at the Universe not with theories but with their eyes and then explaining what they see with real data and results of real experiments. They are rewriting the logical fallacies that we all have been subjected to our entire lives with facts.


 http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/


 I suggest you read and listen and educate yourself to the truth.

It doesn't matter what I think about radiance. Go look it up, it is very clear what radiance is both in my usage of the term and it's meaning.

 You read counter logical fallacies posed by people who have not done the experiments. In fact the galvanic response is exactly what they were and are trying to remove from the crystal batteries. Again you only remember what lets you support your logical fallacies. In the current experiments the galvanic response has been all but removed from the experiment. A very very small percentage of the power is done through galvanic response. But you read one little blurb and wow it all about galvanic response. Then again I encourage you to actually do the experiments and see for yourself. I have done the experiments, in fact I am still doing the experiments.

 First we have to do the experiment then find out what the problems are in testing the devices. There is an order to doing experiments. First you must ask ta question. Then design the experiment that might answer that question. Then an accurate way of measurement must be designed to test it without damaging the test equipment. I have not gotten that far yet in this experiment because I have to sit here and defend my position to someone who just "for fun" Likes to poke holes in everything one says without doing one experiment themselves. Because you don't know the terminology or even the method that we are talking about then how can you state anything at all about these investigations?

 This brings me to your reasons to do as such. There is a great force behind the current views that you hold so sacred. The theories make huge sums in cash and if Tesla was right and we find a way to live without slaving our lives away it will destroy the little bubble you guys live in. You know the ones who are making huge amounts of cash from US. You state you are a professional in the engineering field. You make your stream of cash on us and will protect that stream with every last breath. That includes making logical fallacies to support your income stream. We on the other hand are here to free humanity from scumbags like you. You lie with every breath and when shown those lies close your eyes and continue on with the attacks of credentials and logical fallacies ad numb. I for one will not be answering your tripe anymore after this last batch of posts. I have better things in my life to attend to. Like my experiments. You do this for "Fun", we are doing this to free ourselves from the likes of your kind that only feed off of our hard work like the parasites you are.

 You ask all kind of questions and this is because you are outside of your field as I have said many many times. You continue to ask these questions and post after post counter with your logical fallacies without even going to this great bank of information they call the internet. Research the field before saying one more thing. If there are terminologies you don't understand then go out and find your answers. One tip don't just look at one results when looking into this field. Research is not just cherry picking the answer that falls to your "Thoughts". it should be a consensus of information or at least a majority of the information agreeing.

 You also need to stop looking at the videos we post as just in and out measurements. There is a lot being said about the comparison video of bifilar vs. solenoid style coils. Of which you did not even pick up on and which I have been trying to point you towards. But the problem is that this is what you guys do time and time again. Instead of looking at the video and seeing the interesting thing he was trying to point out you make assumptions and instantly move to the input output argument. It is starring you in the face and despite all others efforts to point you in the right direction you harp on other aspects instead of what was the point of the video.

 Again I will stop answering your posts and you can stop "challenging" my posts which the challenge is utter BS.

 As for the ideal this and the ideal that well IDEAL=MADE UP. It is not real in any sense of the word. There is no such thing as an IDEAL anything. That is only a suppression tactic put out by people who do not like transients. They remove the transient from the equation and then don't have to deal with it. IDEAL=FAKE=MADE  UP or NOT REAL. Hows this for an ideal situation. You not being here messing with our investigations and experiments. Now that would be an ideal situation. Go have "fun" somewhere else and let the big boys experiment in peace with out disruptions and delay tactics or logical fallacies. This is not a healthy debate because in order to debate you must know something about the opposing sides take on it. You are just posing counter attacks without even knowing the terminology or concepts for which we are trying to experiment on.

 Again I call out your reasoning for doing as you are doing and that is two things GREED and PRIDE.


Great post! ;)


" Again I will stop answering your posts and you can stop "challenging" my posts which the challenge is utter BS."

I agree and I will stop also. Pages are filling up with garbage because of it.

Continue on.  ;D

Mags

Offline sparks

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #368 on: July 14, 2013, 07:46:57 PM »
   If an electronic cloud forms a medium.   And we compress this medium by moving a charged plate straight away at it.  Would a longitudinal wave move through the electron cloud like a sound wave?   If tesla was charging his ground terminal with lots and lots and lots of electrons would they create electrical sound waves in any free electrons in the earth?   In a klystron microwave tube we get a stream of electrons to move from cathode to anode that is caused to become rarified and compressed along the flow path.   A fixed observer perpendicular from the stream is alternately charged from more negative to less negative without one  electron moving from the stream to the observer.   His  hair will alternately stand on end then collapse against his skull due to the  charge of the clumps of electrons moving in the stream.  In an electroscope you can move the gold leafs by just passing a glass rod with a wire in it connected to ground near the metal at the top of the electroscope.   Electrons in the metal are pushed into the gold leafs and they move apart.  Again not one electron moves from the glass rod to the electroscope.  What does move from the grounded metal to the electroscope is the electric field of the electrons inside the rod.  This is how we couple two resonant tanks together.   We use a capacitor between two tanks.    As  the electric field in one tank changes it excites oscillations in the second tank.  The second tank is excited using electrostatic induction or capacitave coupling.

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #368 on: July 14, 2013, 07:46:57 PM »
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Offline jbignes5

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #369 on: July 14, 2013, 08:01:28 PM »



 My question sparks is this:


 Would two bifilar pancake coils that are connected via two capacitors create an oscillator? Now that would be an experiment. As I go and perfect my technique for winding the coils this will have to be looked into. Would stacking the coils in parallel reduce the nominal resistance of the wire and allow for better oscillations? Or should we use the litz wire method to do that?

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #370 on: July 14, 2013, 09:16:23 PM »
Jbignes5:

Quote
As for the ideal this and the ideal that well IDEAL=MADE UP. It is not real in any sense of the word. There is no such thing as an IDEAL anything. That is only a suppression tactic put out by people who do not like transients. They remove the transient from the equation and then don't have to deal with it. IDEAL=FAKE=MADE  UP or NOT REAL.

So, we have clearly established here that over the past several postings made by you were you claimed that you answered the question, you have been lying.  You are unable to answer the question on a circuit that consists of one single component.  All that you can do is rant about the term "ideal."  In your electronic technician training (if you really had any which is doubtful) that term and concept should have been taught to you.

Why all the lying?  Why can't you just be honest?

This quote from you:

Quote
Would two bifilar pancake coils that are connected via two capacitors create an oscillator?

That just shows how clueless you are with respect to electronics, you can't even pose a question that makes sense.  And yet you are going to do bench 'research.'  You should work with Rosemary Ainslie, the two of you are on the same level.

Another goodie:

Quote
It doesn't matter what I think about radiance. Go look it up, it is very clear what radiance is both in my usage of the term and it's meaning.

You said, "But when talking about impulses and longitudinal waves within the electric field it transforms to a radiant field."  You can't even define your own terms that you used in your own prose.

Quote
You make your stream of cash on us and will protect that stream with every last breath. That includes making logical fallacies to support your income stream. We on the other hand are here to free humanity from scumbags like you. You lie with every breath and when shown those lies close your eyes and continue on with the attacks of credentials and logical fallacies ad numb. I for one will not be answering your tripe anymore after this last batch of posts. I have better things in my life to attend to. Like my experiments. You do this for "Fun", we are doing this to free ourselves from the likes of your kind that only feed off of our hard work like the parasites you are.

That's comical and there is an explanation for it.  There is a natural variation in people, like a bell curve, a.k.a., a normal distribution.  You are way out there in the Five Sigma Society.  You are just a hapless victim of where you landed on the bell curve.  It's unfortunate but Mother Nature does her thing.

Quote
You ask all kind of questions and this is because you are outside of your field as I have said many many times.

I have a Great Revelation for you Jbignes5.  It's my field and you are one that's on the outside.  You just can't see that looking through your psychedelic pinhole.  The society is not healthy if we don't have people like you.

Quote
There is a lot being said about the comparison video of bifilar vs. solenoid style coils.

If you only understood how a coil actually works that would help.  But hey, don't let those chains of knowledge hold you down in your coil 'research.'

Quote
Pages are filling up with garbage because of it.

A stinky troll that is also displaying his capacity for being a morally bankrupt self-contradictory 'dude' that lacks character and courage.  Magluvin also knows that you are in the Five Sigma Society too Jbigness, but he won't admit it.  He doesn't have the courage to say that to you.  So he is just making a fool of himself as the sad thread clown.  And after years of working on the bench and winding up an innumerable number of coils and doing countless 'experiments,' he can't answer the question either.   ;) ;) ;)

MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #370 on: July 14, 2013, 09:16:23 PM »
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Offline jbignes5

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #371 on: July 14, 2013, 09:59:52 PM »
 Don't rightly care what you think anymore. I will leave this up to a third party and that party is named Stephan. I will have him look at all your posting and see that you are the liar. If need be he will moderate you to clear up this mess you have made of this thread. You my "friend" are the one playing games here. You say that I did not answer your question but I did in post 319.

 Here is the quote if you are too lazy to go find the post. " A normal coil when hooked up to a normal current like DC will resist the current flow as it charges up. This is due to the self inductance and the resistance of the wire in the normal coil. Eventually the coil will choke out the current and no current will flow until there is a change in the current."

 So who is the liar now?

 Also lets see your experiment with the real ideal inductor? Come show us this ideal inductor?
 That ideal inductor is just a mathematical construct from your delusional mind and theory that couldn't possible explain the electric field side of electricity. Lets stop the games ok liar.

Just for giggles lets see what Tinman has realized about the coil.


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=lVEVCo0wXAA&feature=endscreen

 Now lets look at the ideal vs reality situation:

 "******In circuit theory, inductors are idealized as obeying the mathematical relation precisely.****** An "ideal inductor" has inductance, but no resistance or capacitance, and does not dissipate or radiate energy. However real inductors have side effects which cause their behavior to depart from this simple model. They have resistance (due to the resistance of the wire and energy losses in core material), and parasitic capacitance (due to the electric field between the turns of wire which are at slightly different potentials). At high frequencies the capacitance begins to affect the inductor's behavior; at some frequency, real inductors behave as resonant circuits, becoming self-resonant. Above the resonant frequency the capacitive reactance becomes the dominant part of the impedance. At higher frequencies, resistive losses in the windings increase due to skin effect and proximity effect.
Inductors with ferromagnetic cores have additional energy losses due to hysteresis and eddy currents in the core, which increase with frequency. At high currents, iron core inductors also show gradual departure from ideal behavior due to nonlinearity caused by magnetic saturation of the core. An inductor may radiate electromagnetic energy into surrounding space and circuits, and may absorb electromagnetic emissions from other circuits, causing electromagnetic interference (EMI). Real-world inductor applications may consider these parasitic parameters as important as the inductance."

 So lets not post hypothetical questions as fact troll.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #372 on: July 14, 2013, 10:25:31 PM »
What's there to giggle about Jbignes5?  What has Tinman realized about the Tesla series bifilar coil?  Why don't you share your thoughts with us about Tinman's clip.  I did watch it so I am curious to know what you have to say.

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #373 on: July 14, 2013, 11:00:12 PM »
Jbignes5:

Here is the full paragraph from your posting #319:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,
Again the bifilar coil is not an ordinary coil. It does not operate in the same way and doesn't have the push back (false current, self inductace) that a normal solenoid coil has to any current besides they use them in wire wound resistors. If they acted like normal coils off the shelf then wire wound resistors are null and void. Obviously they are not and you argument is false. A normal coil when hooked up to a normal current like DC will resist the current flow as it charges up. This is due to the self inductance and the resistance of the wire in the normal coil. Eventually the coil will choke out the current and no current will flow until there is a change in the current. But a bifilar coil uses the capacity between the pairs of wires to cancel the self inductance. This allows the coil to convert all current into the "magnetic and electric fields" and will not resist the current flow. It also will not gain in voltage as well like a traditional coil, that process must be experimented with and data collected to figure out the difference.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Here was the question I asked you:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
You have an ideal inductor of three Henries.   You connect the inductor to an ideal voltage source of seven volts.  What will happen?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Your few sentences embedded in a paragraph does not constitute an answer to my question.  And if you wanted to consider it an answer then you would be wrong.  Your comments about the bifilar not having the same "push back" are also wrong.

This is a pearl, "Eventually the coil will choke out the current and no current will flow until there is a change in the current."

Is your brain in gear?  Can you act normally, like posting, "The answer to your question is......."

Unbelievable.

I will agree with you and I am done talking with you.  We have done a lot of good things on this thread in examining the Tesla series bifilar coil patent and possible applications.  I took off the "Tesla blinders" and tried to get people to think critically and cast away their prejudices.  You joined the thread and said a lot of nonsensical stuff that should have been challenged.  We have had a debate and you were the instigator of the name calling and you even went as low as calling me a "scumbag."  In my opinion it's hopeless just like other good people on this forum have tried to get through to Rosemary Ainslie, it's hopeless.

What freaks me out is the complete cognative dissonance.  You actually believe that you can do research on the bench into coils and damn all of that "stupid textbook stuff."

From Wikipedia:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
The theory of cognitive dissonance in social psychology proposes that people have a motivational drive to reduce dissonance by altering existing cognitions, adding new ones to create a consistent belief system, or alternatively by reducing the importance of any one of the dissonant elements.[1] It is the distressing mental state that people feel when they "find themselves doing things that don't fit with what they know, or having opinions that do not fit with other opinions they hold."[4] A key assumption is that people want their expectations to meet reality, creating a sense of equilibrium.[5] Likewise, another assumption is that a person will avoid situations or information sources that give rise to feelings of uneasiness, or dissonance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You are safe now Jbignes5.  You can run away and live out your fantasies.  I give up on you, it's a lost cause.

MileHigh



Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #374 on: July 14, 2013, 11:10:01 PM »
I'll bite on your last point Jbignes5:

Quote
Now lets look at the ideal vs reality situation:

 "******In circuit theory, inductors are idealized as obeying the mathematical relation precisely.****** An "ideal inductor" has inductance, but no resistance or capacitance, and does not dissipate or radiate energy. However real inductors have side effects which cause their behavior to depart from this simple model. They have resistance (due to the resistance of the wire and energy losses in core material), and parasitic capacitance (due to the electric field between the turns of wire which are at slightly different potentials). At high frequencies the capacitance begins to affect the inductor's behavior; at some frequency, real inductors behave as resonant circuits, becoming self-resonant. Above the resonant frequency the capacitive reactance becomes the dominant part of the impedance. At higher frequencies, resistive losses in the windings increase due to skin effect and proximity effect.
Inductors with ferromagnetic cores have additional energy losses due to hysteresis and eddy currents in the core, which increase with frequency. At high currents, iron core inductors also show gradual departure from ideal behavior due to nonlinearity caused by magnetic saturation of the core. An inductor may radiate electromagnetic energy into surrounding space and circuits, and may absorb electromagnetic emissions from other circuits, causing electromagnetic interference (EMI). Real-world inductor applications may consider these parasitic parameters as important as the inductance."

 So lets not post hypothetical questions as fact troll.

So, the question is easier to answer if you use an ideal inductor instead of a real inductor because you don't have to deal with all of the other parameters - but you still can't answer it.

And you bash the concept of an ideal inductor after looking it up because you are incapable of appreciating what it really is all about.  Every single person that takes an electronics course is taught about ideal inductors and ideal capacitors before they discuss the real versions of these components.  It's your ignorance talking.

 

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