Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics

  • *Total Members: 83889
  • *Latest: Kingkong

  • *Total Posts: 523350
  • *Total Topics: 15583
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 1
  • *Guests: 5
  • *Total: 6

Author Topic: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".  (Read 391138 times)

Offline synchro1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4232
Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #210 on: May 26, 2013, 08:19:59 AM »
Beam me up Yoda!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #210 on: May 26, 2013, 08:19:59 AM »

Offline hoptoad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1009
Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #211 on: May 26, 2013, 08:59:42 AM »
snip....
In this patent linked below. Tesla clearly says that an alternator can be used to energize the primary. The words are crystal clear. As far as I know alternators produce continuous sine waves.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=oSo_AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
Page 2 line 62 to 69
So there is another misconception, Tesla did say an appropriate alternating dynamo can be used, as he did use many times.
snip....
A transformer output inverter connected to a DC supply, particularly a transformer output inverter with variable fequency capability, would also probably suffice as the primary coil supply source.
Cheers

Offline Farmhand

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1583
Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #212 on: May 26, 2013, 10:47:04 AM »
Yeah I hear ya MileHigh, To tell the truth I haven't found or envisioned any fantastic uses for it myself either, but for me that isn't important. I don't mind others arguing the point about it's uses. And I might even hint at possible uses just because of conceptual thinking, but that's just me, I suppose things and I try to make it clear when I do so that they are suppositions. But to answer your question, I don't know what it would be useful for except as an example of the effect. The fact he chose to use a spiral coil form in the patent drawing is irrelevant except that a spiral shows the winding in two dimensions very well. The patent is not restricted to spiral coils as Tesla points out early in the patent as well as noting that in every coil exists these properties to differing values. We know that in the Colorado Springs Notes Tesla explains the drawbacks of distributed capacitance in the HF oscillator. For that reason I can't see the coil being designed for HF, because the movement of electricity is restricted or retarded because of the capacitance "holding" energy within the coil, when he wants it to move from the top to the bottom at great rates.

Could such a coil be used as a capacitive top load for a Tesla coil in place of a toroid or in combination with a reasonable sized toroid or sphere to substantially increase it's capacity if tuned so that at the oscillating frequency of the resonator matched the oscillating frequency of the serial connected spiral coil ? A cap coil as some have called it.

Could it be used in an induction cooker so that the ferrite strips we sometimes see was not needed to increase the inductance to lower the effective frequency, if you can gather what I mean to save me some rambling ? Somehow I don't think it would be suitable for that.

It could be used as a filter as you say, I guess. I have one that works as a frisbee but I can't tell if it generates while flying.  ;D Kidding sorry.

One thing I think it would work well for is low frequency boost converter type operations with higher voltage inputs, as long as the coil discharges all of the energy if the coil can store more energy and take in current quicker as a result of the frequency of the currents into it then I see no reason why it might not be useful in that way.

However I did do a very rudimentary test with serial connecting my coils on the pulse motor ( I never intended to ) but I tried it and the inductance was too much for the setup and what I wanted so it didn't help me in that situation nor did I really expect it to. I like to use multiple windings in parallel of thinner wire because 1 mm wire is not so easy to work with and comes on short length rolls for me and I like low DC resistance if possible and applicable. To keep both strands the same length I usually wind the m side by side if I can keep it up.

Your question is a valid question no doubt about it. I have no solid answer.

Cheers

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #212 on: May 26, 2013, 10:47:04 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Farmhand

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1583
Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #213 on: May 26, 2013, 11:08:09 AM »
A transformer output inverter connected to a DC supply, particularly a transformer output inverter with variable fequency capability, would also probably suffice as the primary coil supply source.
Cheers

Yes I agree, in low power testing a function generator works well to give the Tesla coil a continuous wave "wave form". The problem comes trying to use an alternator or inverter transformer on a low resistance low inductance primary of only a few turns, I had some success with using an inverter to provide an AC excitement via series capacitors and static spark gaps, it worked but was hell on the inverter circuit when tuning was off or the coil was too close to the IC and circuit. And it wasn't an alternator working at the frequency of the resonating coil either (only remote harmonics) which makes it beside the point, but without the series capacitor primary circuit the primary shorts out the transformer, which is not very good. There are ways around it but I like the DC resonant charging circuit type primary circuit for the way the supply can't be shorted proper. For medium power and voltage inputs solid state rules the roost. And I like the idea of Valves for a continuous wave Tesla transformer to conduct HF experiments. Spark gap coils and Damped wave transformers are for spark gap transmitters and spark making coils in my opinion. For many experiments a continuous wave transformer would be best I think. Every cycle input. I think some solid state setups use primary coupling transformers don't they ?

Cheers


Offline synchro1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4232
Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #214 on: May 26, 2013, 06:01:20 PM »

Cook's patent:

http://my.voyager.net/~jrrandall/CookCoil.htm


Here's a quote from Danial McFarland Cook's battery patent. The last line reads:


"The alternate changes of the iron cores or magnets may be used for producing electro-magnetic motion, or motion to a wheel of any suitable device".


Cook was "Impulse Magnetizing" his ferrite cores with two SBC's in series. "If, now, the circuit is broken the current instantly ceases"....

                "The mode of producing or starting the action in the helices consists in the use of a steel or electromagnet, or a helix, around one of the helices, and causing a secondary current in the enclosed helix by means of a battery current in the outer one; the action then in either the simple or compound helices increases in quantity to the maximum capacity of the wires to conduct with the existing tension of the current. If, now, the circuit is broken the current instantly ceases, and can only be restored by the same means that it was first produced; hence to allow the use of the main circuit for common purposes I introduce a rheostat or resistance of any kind into the circuit, so that a small portion of the current only will flow along the resistance, by which means the action in the helices is feebly maintained when the main circuit is broken, and instantly restored when it is closed to its full force. By this means the action becomes in effect the same as the common battery currents, and may be used for similar purposes. For the purpose of preventing the heating of the helices caused by the intensity of the action, and to prevent circulation of the initial secondary currents in the main circuit, a rheostat of any convenient form may be made to constitute a part of the main circuit D. The alternate changes of the iron cores or magnets may be used for producing electro-magnetic motion, or motion to a wheel of any suitable device".


How enormously important this is! Cook maintains that permanently magnetizing the SBC cores alternatingly, can produce motion in a wheel. This is my "Lenz Delay Theory"! Lorentz propulsion.


All the electrons spin in the same direction but for how long? Can ferrite cores draw on the extra strength of permanent magnetization for brief periods? What really happens to the core when we short these types of "Magnetizer" output coils in our pulse motors? 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #214 on: May 26, 2013, 06:01:20 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #215 on: May 26, 2013, 07:14:22 PM »
Since i started this thread I'm going to take the liberty to go a bit further off topic to illustrate a point.

I hear all to often the claim that the Tesla transmitters for the transmission of signals and such without wires, must use spark gaps or capacitor discharges ect, but that is untrue, and I have words from Tesla to show he never insisted that was the only way.

In this patent linked below. Tesla clearly says that an alternator can be used to energize the primary. The words are crystal clear. As far as I know alternators produce continuous sine waves.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=oSo_AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

Page 2 line 62 to 69

So there is another misconception, Tesla did say an appropriate alternating dynamo can be used, as he did use many times.

As I see it it is our responsibility to point out when people say otherwise and contradict Tesla while purporting to support his work and legacy.

The patent linked in this post describes "The Art Of Transmitting Electrical Energy Through The Natural Mediums". And If any patents are to be questioned I think this is the one to look at. If the claims in this patent are shown be incorrect or false, then that would mean something.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=oSo_AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

Cheers

So anyone want to quote from the patent and say it isn't so ?


...
Yes, that is right.... but also, the important factor for success is not the shape of the primary stimulating wave per se, but rather the rise and fall times of the peak currents.  You can use sine waves just fine, as Tesla knew and stated. The key is to have high currents swinging at high frequencies, so that the rise and fall times of the sine wave are rapid and steep. However, as Tesla also knew, a spike or rectangular wave is even better for a given peak current and frequency, because it has even faster rise/fall time than a sine wave does. Tesla spent a whole lot of time on spark gaps, in order to attain the most rapid striking and quenching possible, while still using high currents.
Nowadays with modern components we can make clean sine waves with great peak currents at appropriately high frequencies to achieve the desired effects, without using big tank capacitors or spark gaps.

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #216 on: May 26, 2013, 07:15:31 PM »
Farmhand:

I have no issues with the patent.  My real question is what can you do with it?  If there are no real applications then it's just a curiosity.

(snip)
MileHigh

You are kidding, right?

Have you used a radio at all lately?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #216 on: May 26, 2013, 07:15:31 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5832
Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #217 on: May 26, 2013, 08:01:35 PM »
You are kidding, right?


It doesnt seem so...  He really is hell bent when it comes to people talking about or using this coil.  :o ;)   He claims its a waste of time and he is trying to save us from that. There are many other threads here that could use that kind of savior, but they dont use or talk about bifi coils, soo... ;)

Mags

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #218 on: May 26, 2013, 08:26:28 PM »
TK:

This patent has nothing to do with a radio circuit.  The basic building blocks of an AM radio are a variable-capacitor LC tank circuit to do the tuning an an LC-based IF amplifier to generate the IF multiplying frequency and a band-pass filter and a peak detector to extract the audio.  I am talking of course about original radio.  Many experimenters could do well to investigate those circuits, tubes and all.  That has nothing to do with a big self-resonating coil.

Magluvin:

Quote
It doesnt seem so...  He really is hell bent when it comes to people talking about or using this coil.  (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/shocked.gif) (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/wink.gif)   He claims its a waste of time and he is trying to save us from that. There are many other threads here that could use that kind of savior, but they dont use or talk about bifi coils, soo...

That's a false Strawman argument.  I am not hell-bent on anything and I am not trying to 'save' anybody.

Quote
A straw man or straw person, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally,[1][2] is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy

based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[3] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a

proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it,

without ever having actually refuted the original position.[3][4] This technique has been used throughout history in polemical

debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged, emotional issues.

The original position:  I said I am not aware of any applications for a big self-resonating coil as described in the patent, it might just be a curiosity.

Can you suggest some applications for it yourself Magluvin?

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #218 on: May 26, 2013, 08:26:28 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5832
Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #219 on: May 26, 2013, 08:48:47 PM »


Magluvin:

That's a false Strawman argument.  I am not hell-bent on anything and I am not trying to 'save' anybody.

The original position:  I said I am not aware of any applications for a big self-resonating coil as described in the patent, it might just be a curiosity.


"That's a false Strawman argument."      Oh really?  ;D   Here is some hay for ya.....

"The basic point is to not have the misconception that so-called "series bifilar" coils have some imagined advantages when it comes to making a pulse motor, whether it be as drive coils or as pick-up coils.  You want to not have beginners spend months or more with this false notion." http://www.overunity.com/13460/teslas-coil-for-electro-magnets/msg360620/#msg360620

"The basic point is to not have the misconception"     'The basic point is' you should eat your hay now. ;)



"You want to not have beginners spend months or more with this false notion."     No, it is you that does not want beginners to spend time..... You.  ;)    More hay? ;D


So you can take your strawman diagnosis and description and put it where it really fits. ;D

Mags

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #220 on: May 26, 2013, 09:05:06 PM »
Magluvin:

One more time you are doing it again, making a Strawman argument.

The points I made are valid points.

You said:

Quote
He really is hell bent when it comes to people talking about or using this coil.  He claims its a waste of time and he is trying to save us from that.

There is no connection between me trying to clear up misconceptions so people can learn from that and your gratuitous negative spin on what I was saying.

In addition, you can quote me but you can't make a technical argument against me.  Most notably, nor can you suggest an application for the self-resonating coils in this patent.

All that we are left with is that you can't refute that what I say is true, your frustration because you can't suggest a single application for these coils, and your pretentious preening.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #220 on: May 26, 2013, 09:05:06 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline synchro1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4232
Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #221 on: May 26, 2013, 09:46:58 PM »
@Milehigh,

                   These coils act as "Impulse Magnetizer Coils". That's a single application. Tesla's Scrap Yard Magnet was made obsolete by the transistor. The one I looked into was an antique back in the 70's.

                     Take a look at the Cook Battery. Two reciprocating Impulse Magnetization events. Enough power to drive a freight train off Cook's nearly 3' long magnetic cores. This is a real effect. Look at Cook's circuit schematic for the two SBC's in series!
 
 
 

Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5832
Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #222 on: May 26, 2013, 09:51:47 PM »
Magluvin:

One more time you are doing it again, making a Strawman argument.

The points I made are valid points.



What I have noticed and 'taken note of' is your propensity to argue, attack and ridicule those that post things about this coil. You did it in the 'Confirming delayed lenz'  you did it in the thread about Zeropoint132's self running bifi thread, and you are doing it here. You seem to be greatly magnetized to the subject, and will fill page after page with what you want others to think and believe about these coils, Tesla of which you claim he wasnt that great. As with Tesla, you are in a minority of those that know of him. If it were up to you, there would be a web site called Teslawasabum.com.

I suppose to you, Edison and Marcony did it all right? Tesla was a bum. Tesla was an average Joe wire man. You imply that in recent posts here.  Basically you imply that he was nobody special. 

Tesla could out smart you with what he had in his little finger compared to your complete postings on the internet.

You have something against people messing around with this coil, this is for certain. You use degrading wording as much as you can of it and the people that post about it.

I can only hope that people can see this clearly and it empowers them to persue more experimentation. Being that there is 'soo much' implied negativity towards the experimentation with these coils, there must be something to it. ;) You attack the idea of a bifi coil like an atheist to a Christian.  Something is up with that. :-*


Mags


Offline synchro1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4232
Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #223 on: May 26, 2013, 10:58:00 PM »
@Mags,
 
         He's an extrodinary Gadfly, pehaps afflicted with a Freudian fetish. We need to Arduino the Cook battery. The relationship is atomic COP!

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #224 on: May 26, 2013, 11:05:42 PM »
Magluvin,

Right, I look at certain things and make some technical points that are valid and have merit.  Then you attempt to spin that into a Strawman argument about combative arguing, attacking and ridiculing.  You are frustrated when sometimes there is no logical reason or any valid data to back up your "free energy buzz."

And you even go so far as to use a Strawman argument that I have something against people experimenting when what I am really doing is giving them a sensible viewpoint that they may have not heard before.  I do that for their benefit.

But the glass is always half empty and cloudy and dark from your perspective and that dulls your free energy buzz and you are not happy so you try to pull off this silly stunt.

I think that people might be seeing through you and your motivations and I encourage them to do as much experimentation as they want.  Occasionally I get emails from people that thank me for my comments.

MileHigh

 

OneLink