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Author Topic: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".  (Read 390976 times)

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #195 on: May 26, 2013, 12:32:37 AM »
...
 You guys look really, really stupid to me.
...

You also look really stupid to me.  If you read through your posts, you grasped for anything you thought could be blamed like Magluvin or my coils are not neat, I connected my coils in series so the test was invalid,  I hold the two coils too close, etc etc.  Do you recall what TinselKoala wrote on your last but one claim? here it is:  "If you think that "the serial input invalidates any results" (sic) I put it to you: Prove it. Get some bolts and some wire and some power supplies, and demonstrate some difference between the "serial input" and the same current through the electromagnets individually."  from this link: http://www.overunity.com/11350/confirming-the-delayed-lenz-effect/msg357860/#msg357860
 

You have shown no any proof that you are correct. Magluvin and my tests showed the two different coil windings perform the same job. The series bifilar surely has a higher self capacitance but this is not an advantage for a lifting electromagnet. And your making a permanent magnetization for the core of an electromagnet in the nail core test is just ridiculous, just write to and ask David Thomson about it.

When you show a useful thing in practice which are now only in your dreams I will pay attention again. You may have a pulse motor you think performs unusually but you have done a great job to doubt its real performance, for you do not wish to show any proof it is exceptional. 

Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #195 on: May 26, 2013, 12:32:37 AM »

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #196 on: May 26, 2013, 01:24:06 AM »
Temporay permenant core magnetization delays the change in output coil pole shift, and retards the timing by creating magnetic field interference. My placement of permanent diametric magnets in SBC output coils  has produced the same AUL.

@gyulasum,

 "your making a permanent magnetization for the core of an electromagnet in the nail core test is just ridiculous".

I uploaded a video demonstrating 2x the magnetic attraction with the SBC. How do you explain that?

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #197 on: May 26, 2013, 01:31:03 AM »
Synchro, With a DC supply the SBC will act exactly the same as any other regular winding with the same inductance and resistance, the only diffenece will come with the application of currents at a frequency compatible with the resonance frequency of the coil determined by the L/C/ relationship the coil posses. With DC it's just ampere turns and DC resistance.

Gyula is correct, and it is wise to take notice of the educated guys, then after some time you will need to listen to them less.

The patent claims are clear and correct, I see no need for further claims not made in the patent or even by Tesla regarding Tesla's patent, and they are most definitely not Tesla's claims. The claims you make for the "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS" patent coil  Synchro have nothing to do with the patent. Why continue ?

If you have claims then they ought to be demonstrated and documented. Any coil or patented device could conceivably be used for purposes other than is intended.

ie, a bus can be a house. And a hammer can be a plumb bob ect., but so what. Heck I can use a car engine as a boat anchor, good boat anchors used to be P76 Leyland engines.  ;D

Cheers

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #197 on: May 26, 2013, 01:31:03 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #198 on: May 26, 2013, 01:36:55 AM »
What's a "Scrap Yard Magnet" Mr. Sherlock Holmes? No one has explained where the power cord is hidden. So Tesla has a patent for an electromagnet you meat heads can't get to work. What a stupid ass Tesla was! Write Mr. Thompson, he'll tell you your way's no good! Sniveling sops!

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #199 on: May 26, 2013, 02:29:02 AM »
Anyone who reads the patent closely and understands it will realize how silly your comments are Synchro.

In the first few posts that I did in fact show that the "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS" wind has the intention of securing the correct L and C for the impressed frequency and that with "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS" the extra capacity secured causes the bifilar wound coil to have a lower resonant frequency for the same amount of wire and yet retains the ampere turns and the same inductance as the regular wound coil of the same amount of wire.

The resonant frequency is lower because the serial connected bifilar coil has more inherent self capacitance, and later that because of the "capacitor plate distance" due to the insulation thickness the voltage is a factor relative to the capacitance secured as is stated in the patent.

You are entitled to your opinion Synchro but personal abuse and name calling is uncalled for. Please stop. That is a request for decency.

My own disagreements are not so much with the technical content of the educated folks posts but the seemingly constant misunderstanding and misrepresentation of what I say that some in particular seem to engage in.

Even if you disagree with them or their actions the emphasis should be on the technical matter or the "actions as such" not just a broadside at the persons as insults.

If discussing the patent content, state your case. The focus here should be on the patent and what it says. Not what others would desire to make of it.

If you want to discuss with others about the patent text and meaning, just quote the section of the patent and state your case as "your" case.

Cheers

....

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #199 on: May 26, 2013, 02:29:02 AM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #200 on: May 26, 2013, 02:41:24 AM »
To all, I will say this, any who try to dismiss or deny the patent claims made by Tesla which are correct will end up looking silly as they should, and by the same token those who make claims for Tesla's devices or patents that Tesla did not make and attribute them to Tesla will also end up looking silly as they should.

The patents are clear if read and understood as he intended, he wanted people to be able to build and use his devices as he intended, unless the text was tampered with or edited (which I see no evidence of) there is not much to argue about, read the patents and decipher them so that they make sense and logic, Tesla did not intentionally lie or deceive, on some things he may have been a bit off, but in the claims of the patents he is pretty much spot on. People should pay no regard what so ever to the claims people other than Tesla make, there is no reason to do that when the patents tell the claims at the end.

Those who say to disregard the patents are not to be trusted. And that is because they are deniers of truth.

Cheers

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #201 on: May 26, 2013, 02:57:42 AM »
Take the patent linked below as an example of the way his patents are misunderstood and misrepresented. In reality the claims begin on page 2 from line 101. They are all true and correct, and so the patent is valid. As far as the claims go if the setup transmitted some energy to anywhere and that was utilized in any amount then the patent is valid and correct. It makes no claims of efficiency in figures that I can see. Just the principal of the design of the transmitter apparatus. It is obvious they can transmitt some energy without man made wires and that was demonstrated by Tesla and since by many others. All the BS that some spew about it's near field or bla bla bla mean nothing, the efficiency means nothing in the context of the patent, the patent claims are correct and true and in line with the physical  laws of nature. End of story on that patent. A different patent covers the details of how the transmission physically happens.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=m7R9AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

I question the motives of both the folks making the wild claims as well as those who want to dismiss facts by confusing people ect..

Cheers

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #201 on: May 26, 2013, 02:57:42 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #202 on: May 26, 2013, 03:56:36 AM »
You can take this discussion full circle.

Tesla made a patent for a self-resonating coil with interleaved windings.  In his patent he views it as a band-pass filter where at the resonant frequency it acts like an AC short circuit while it resonates.  That corresponds to a damped series LC circuit.  It can also be viewed as a notch filter that acts like an open circuit if you view it as a damped parallel parallel LC circuit.  It looks like some of the clips doing the testing on a small setup show a parallel LC circuit but I am not aware of a definitive one.  I am not aware of a clip that shows the current and the voltage at the same time.

It's even possible that a big series "bifilar" coil that Tesla played with acted as both a series LC circuit and as a parallel LC circuit depending on the excitation frequency.  Hence two resonant points at two different frequencies.  It's also possible that his patent for a self-resonating coil, presumably being used either for energy storage or as a notch or band-pass filter has absolutely nothing to do with an "electro-magnet."  Again, in the historical context, almost nobody understood electronics and nobody understood what inductance was.  However, people would probably have understood "electro-magnet" and the term is used in the patent just to make it "friendlier" for the patent office.  It's possible that he used the term because it meant something to people and they could latch onto it and he never intended for the design to be used as an electro-magnet at all.  "Coil for capacity-inductance electricity self-inducer" has no ring to it.  If that was true then it would deflate Synchro1's dreams for sure.

Does Tesla talk about the application of his patent in other writings?  If not, then you are left with a damped resonator.  A very big one might resonate for perhaps a few tens of seconds before it dies down, just a guess.  Can anybody suggest an application for this?

Tesla is not "the greatest genius in the Universe" like some of you seem to be implying.  He did basic basic experiments that have been learned and since then technology has evolved and progressed and improved in the last 120 years.  Where the application of this type of technology is going on today is what's important.

Quote
All the BS that some spew about it's near field or bla bla bla mean nothing

That's BS, near field vs. far field is an important concept that's used in antenna theory all the time.  In your own way Farmhand you are not that much different than Sychro1.  Some of what you don't understand or disagree with you will dismiss out of hand or you might get upset with others that don't share your views.  Sometimes you will try to steamroll your views over other people's opinions.

Personally, I would not be too surprised if the Tesla self-resonating coil was just an experiment that he did and decided to take out a patent on in case he could use the design.  Ultimately it had no real practical use and ended up being nothing more than a curiosity.  120 years later and it generates about 20 megabytes worth of text per day on the Internet, day in and day out.

MileHigh

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #203 on: May 26, 2013, 04:11:28 AM »
MileHigh, In the context of this patent below, near field v's far field has no bearing.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=m7R9AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false 

That subject is dealt with in another patent. The claims show that. You show what I meant by my post.

If I am mistaken you ought to show the claim from the patent that makes near field vs far field relevant.

Cheers


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #203 on: May 26, 2013, 04:11:28 AM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #204 on: May 26, 2013, 04:46:45 AM »
I guess I should repeat myself here. If I have made a specific claim that anyone disputes as untruthful, then just quote me (in context) with the reason why my claim is seen as incorrect and if I cannot explain it with logic or provide evidence to my own satisfaction and I can see I was wrong I will retract the claim. But I pay little regard to innuendo and do not take kindly to it. Please do not confuse an opinion given as such with a "claim". I have no reason or desire to defend my opinions on things when I give them as opinions of thinking. If I make a claim I will defend it if I think it correct or retract it if I see I am mistaken. Like anybody I make mistakes and I can admit it when I see it. If I explain myself concerning a claim and I don't think I was understood or am being mistaken about it I might just give up trying to explain it and ignore the complaint. So people should stick to the point. Like many others on these sites I lack the proper terminology in a lot of cases so I just try to explain what I mean if what I say does not immediately make sense. A misuse of terms is not always a mistaken claim, but rather the misuse of words to describe a valid claim. No one is perfect, and few of us have the training to use all the correct words, but it ought to be obvious who understands what by what they can do. Many of us are trades people or otherwise trained in the engineering fields to differing degrees.

Some of us see some minor details as unimportant depending on our goals and motives, we need not feel as though we need to learn to be an electrical engineer in our spare time so we can argue with electrical engineers. I respect very much the knowledge of the people trained in the field. But in a similar way I didn't need to train to be a mechanic to be able to show some mechanics a thing or two about cars and motorcycles, but do I think I know more than them ? No I don't. I just know things that make a difference for me that they might see as insignificant in their frame of reference. Perspective.

Cheers

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #205 on: May 26, 2013, 05:02:29 AM »
As Far as the "COIL FOR ELECRO-MAGNETS" patent goes, the claims are at the end of the patent, they are correct and truthful. Tesla explains himself well in the patent. I don't see any need for any further argument, if people can use the coil winding advantageously in any way they should feel free to say so if they have evidence of it or it is obvious to others.

All coils that produce a magnetic field from an electric current input are technically electro-magnets, I think it is explained by Tesla he means any coil and the effect of the cancellation of the "effects" of the self induction can be secured in any coil if the right conditions are met. To me it seems plain and simple.

Milehigh, if I may ask, what part of the patent is it that you have a problem with ? If you have a problem with part of the patent then please say so. But I have to say I'm not interested if it has not to do with if the patent is correct or not. If you are not disputing the patent claims then I have no argument with you. I see no need for argument on the patent itself.

Cheers 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #205 on: May 26, 2013, 05:02:29 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #206 on: May 26, 2013, 05:10:00 AM »
Deepcut promised to try the diametric neo magnet as SBC core to test for AUL, and shortly after, he vanished suddenly and completely from the Free Energy Forum for superficial reasons.. The MIB may have stopped by and shown him snapshots of his children in their school yard. This subject makes alot of people very uncomfortable. Judging from that and the general level of hysteria over my second "tectonic" paper clip claim, it makes me wonder about the seriousness of the MIB threat in U.K., and possible infiltration into this thread by imposters planted to help spread misinformation and falsehood! .
 
Here's more definative proof in support of my claim:
 
Have a look at this video of an "Impulse Charged Multifilar Pancake Magnetizer Coil": from 3zdayz:
 
This is what Tesla's bifilar pancake coil was patented to do! A ferrite slug would PM in the core jolt. Take note of the size of the spark. No single wire coil could match that gap width.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTc35MbOG8s
 

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #207 on: May 26, 2013, 05:46:26 AM »
Multifilar pancake inductances, from 3zdayz:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQi-5xSeP_U
 
Published on Mar 30, 2013A bi-filar is definatly more inductance than a single.  As a motivator (generating a magnetic field) it is a more noticable field.

A quad filar has 50% more inductance than a bifilar; a bi filar has 100% more inductance than a single, or than the sum of the parts.

The flatter the coil, the more notable the effect, chaos, or overlapped windings reduces the inductance.

56+58 = 114; actual 224
13+14 = 26; actual 41

quadfilar 0.026 + 0.026 + 0.26 + 0.026 = 0.104 ; actual 286

0.26 + 0.26 - actual 0.083
0.26 + 0.26 + 0.26 - actual 0.171
and the 4th in series - actual 0.295

so the result is more than 10x a single winding for 4 windings.

the result is 4x a single winding for 2 windings.

So by that I guess it would be 25x a single winding for a hex-filar coil...

but there must be diminishing returns...

The flatest pancake coil is 33 turns each (total 66).  So the quad filar would be like 16 turns.

So if I made like a 32-filar coil with 2 turns, and put them all together?... but then isn't it at some point really getting back to mono-filar coil with an offset of 1?

----
The wider, quad-filar coil (usually to upper left) is fairly flat.  When I took it out of its form it lost integrety a bit.
The narrow-er quad-filar coil is actually somewhat overlapped, so it's 2x2 winding basically.

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #208 on: May 26, 2013, 08:08:46 AM »
Since i started this thread I'm going to take the liberty to go a bit further off topic to illustrate a point.

I hear all to often the claim that the Tesla transmitters for the transmission of signals and such without wires, must use spark gaps or capacitor discharges ect, but that is untrue, and I have words from Tesla to show he never insisted that was the only way.

In this patent linked below. Tesla clearly says that an alternator can be used to energize the primary. The words are crystal clear. As far as I know alternators produce continuous sine waves.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=oSo_AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

Page 2 line 62 to 69
Quote
This source is usually a condenser charged to a high potential and discharged in rapid succession through the primary as in a type of transformer invented by me and not well known but when it is desired to produce stationary waves of great lengths an alternating dynamo of suitable construction may be used to energize the primary.


So there is another misconception, Tesla did say an appropriate alternating dynamo can be used, as he did use many times.

As I see it it is our responsibility to point out when people say otherwise and contradict Tesla while purporting to support his work and legacy.

The patent linked in this post describes "The Art Of Transmitting Electrical Energy Through The Natural Mediums". And If any patents are to be questioned I think this is the one to look at. If the claims in this patent are shown be incorrect or false, then that would mean something.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=oSo_AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

Cheers

So anyone want to quote from the patent and say it isn't so ?


...

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #209 on: May 26, 2013, 08:17:01 AM »
Farmhand:

I have no issues with the patent.  My real question is what can you do with it?  If there are no real applications then it's just a curiosity.

Synchro1:

Use the Cone of Silence, post your messages in ROT13.   8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1eUIK9CihA

MileHigh

 

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