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Author Topic: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".  (Read 391139 times)

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #165 on: May 19, 2013, 08:01:19 PM »
Synchro1:

I can suggest a good test for you.  If you have a compass and arrange your setup so the regular coil and SBC will try to deviate the compass from magnetic North you can then measure the relative strength of the fields from the two types of coils at different compass positions.  Say the compass is a foot away from the regular coil and when you energize the coil it deflects 30 degrees.  Now try the same thing with the SBC and see if the compass also deflects by 30 degrees.  This test will be much more accurate than picking up paperclips.

I will remind you that you need to know the current through the coils.  So you measure the DC resistance of the coil and then measure the voltage across the coil when you connect the battery.  You might not know if the battery is freshly charged or nearly discharged.  That will affect the battery voltage under load so you must read the voltage and then calculate the current.  Alternatively you can use your multimeter to measure current.  One way or the other, assuming that you are comparing two coils with the same number of turns and the same core material, you have to measure both setups and be sure the current through both types of coils will be the same when you do the tests.  You should present that data as part of your test results to your audience.

Looking forward to seeing your clip.  We can see if there is any evidence of very high voltage.

MileHigh

You do it!

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #165 on: May 19, 2013, 08:01:19 PM »

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #166 on: May 19, 2013, 08:08:39 PM »
Quote
You do it!

It's not going to happen!

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #167 on: May 19, 2013, 11:19:54 PM »
Hi Farmhand,

Milehigh answered your question on the Avramenko plug so I make some additions only. You surely know that a piece of wire freely hanging in the air has a self capacitance with respect to the ground, measured between any one wireend and a ground pole. This link shows a formula to calculate the CH capacitance of a horizontal wire with L length, d diameter and H height above ground: http://www.strobbe.eu/on7yd/136ant/#CapTop  So the single wire capacitance to ground behaves as the "second wire" in the power transfer and of course it is frequency dependent too. This explains why the Avramenko plug is not really "working" at 50 or 60 Hz frequencies, high capacitive reactance is the limiting factor at low frequencies.

I do not know if you have read the patent by Avramenko et al here is a link https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=www.google.com/patents/US6104107.pdf   
I attached a pdf file on practical measurements with single wire power transfer, I find it interesting. (I found it on the net, referenced by someone on a forum I cannot recall.)

Gyula

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #167 on: May 19, 2013, 11:19:54 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #168 on: May 20, 2013, 07:17:32 PM »
Scrap yard magnets are Tesla pancake SB coils attached to flat iron disks. There's a capacitor, a six volt battery and a DPDT current reversing switch.  The electromagnet face drops into a pile of scrap, the capacitor charge pulses the iorn disk and a PMH bond attracts the scrap. This electromagnet is OU now minus the cost of a comparison powered coil. Current reversal drops the load. The bifilar nail test of "Tesla Coil Builder" crudely demonstrates this PMH effect of Tesla's SBC.

Magnetic lock valves, car door locks, magnet conditioners, and countless other devices find ways to make use of this effect. Tesla's patent for "Electromagnets" is a coil for "Making Electromagnets". Portions of Tesla's patent are missing.
 
This lockng effect is a "Lorentz" force. Gravity bends light, E=Mc2. Magnet fields bend electric current. This effect can't be explained with Ampere's law, and is not inductive magnetization which can't unlatch.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #169 on: May 20, 2013, 10:32:59 PM »
Synchro1:

Go do some research on scrap yard electromagnets if you want to.  Right now your talk is mostly fantasy talk.  There is no OU related to scrap yard electromagnets and they do not use a PMH effect for their operating principle.

The Lorentz force is has to do with magnetic fields causing a force on a current-carrying wire.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/magfor.html#c2

Quote
In physics, particularly electromagnetism, the Lorentz force is the force on a point charge due to electromagnetic fields. If a particle of charge q moves with velocity v in the presence of an electric field E and a magnetic field B, then it will experience a force F = qE + qv (cross product)B

So there is no special "secret sauce" associated with the Lorentz force.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #169 on: May 20, 2013, 10:32:59 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #170 on: May 21, 2013, 12:42:48 AM »
@Milehigh,
                   How do you explain Ed Leedskalnin's PMH effect without your "Lorentz Sauce"? Furthermore, maybe you're the one who should do some research? Tell us how permanent Alnico Magnets are manufactured Smart Aleck? Cap discharge through an SBC perhaps? How about your SBC PMH car door lock?
               

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #171 on: May 21, 2013, 01:52:06 AM »
Synchro1:

I can explain the PMH effect.  But before I do that if required, ask yourself what are the required conditions for the PMH effect to work?  Then ask yourself are those conditions met in a scrapyard setting?

Magnets are made by putting ferromagnetic material with high remanence in a very strong unidirectional external magnetic field for a short amount of time.  That will align the magnetic domains in the ferromagnetic material with the external magnetic field.  As long as the magnet is not abused then it will retain its magnetism for a very long time.

I don't know if they use PMH effects in a car door lock and I seriously doubt it.  It's probably just an ordinary solenoid driving some kind of latch mechanism that clicks into the locked or unlocked position.  No SBC would be used for reasons already explained.

MileHigh
« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 04:07:23 AM by MileHigh »

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #171 on: May 21, 2013, 01:52:06 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #172 on: May 21, 2013, 06:33:51 PM »
@Milehigh,
 
                   You make outragous statements. "Magnetic door locks are probably mechanical". That's just complete nonsense! You're not worth the discussion. Take a look at youself for God's sake. You act like a stupid farce!

                     Causeing a sudden high voltage field collapse accross the  SBC instantainiously transmuts the iron nail core  into a permanent magnet. A nickel metal nail could be removed from the SBC and sold in a hardware store. This is what the coil was patented to do. Reversing the current anihilates the field. That's why Alnico's can drop dead if shocked. The scrap yard magnet works with just that kind of Hi-Voltage permanent field producing and unlatching current.
 
                        Skycollection measured a COP of 1.7 with bifilar pancakes and ferrite toroid core. The iron transmuts into a seperate isotope when it's pulsed by hi-voltage and the domains align as a crystal. Can we skim the permanent quanta transmutation to generate free power?
 
 
                 
 
 

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #173 on: May 21, 2013, 08:01:30 PM »
Synchro1:

That was a "far out" reply and it's hard to respond to it.  Yes, I will repeat that electric car door locks are probably driven by an ordinary solenoid.

Skycollection has not demonstrated good measurement techniques and he freely admits that he is not strong when it comes to power analysis of his setups.  He doesn't have over unity with his setups.  If you can point me to the clip where he claims COP 1.7 I'll have a look.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #173 on: May 21, 2013, 08:01:30 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #174 on: May 21, 2013, 08:32:59 PM »
Thanks Webby1!  You learn something new every day!

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #175 on: May 21, 2013, 10:40:08 PM »
I discovered that I can turn the SBC nail core's second level of twin strength permanent field on and off with current reversal. The coil jumps the SBC permanent core field strength up to 2x then back to normal, where the single wire permanent core strength rests at. So I turn the double permanent core strength on and off with current reversal, to half strength. This only effects the second strength level. The single wire coil does not share this characteristic.
 
 

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #175 on: May 21, 2013, 10:40:08 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #176 on: May 22, 2013, 12:33:57 AM »
Synchro1:

You criticise other members here and your criticisms have so far proved unfounded. And when it turns out they are unfounded or mistaken you either do not respond to it when you are faced with them or change topic or start to make another vague topic.

It is okay you make mistakes, it happens with anybody. But so far you have not shown any proof to support your bold statements.
How about the photo (or video you mentioned to upload) on your neatly wound SBC coil having twice the field strength versus a single wound coil?
If you do not wish to share that is fine with me but please tell it and we will all know we can neglect your posts because at least we will know you like telling stories.

Gyula

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #177 on: May 22, 2013, 05:04:54 PM »
Synchro1:

You criticise other members here and your criticisms have so far proved unfounded. And when it turns out they are unfounded or mistaken you either do not respond to it when you are faced with them or change topic or start to make another vague topic.

It is okay you make mistakes, it happens with anybody. But so far you have not shown any proof to support your bold statements.
How about the photo (or video you mentioned to upload) on your neatly wound SBC coil having twice the field strength versus a single wound coil?
If you do not wish to share that is fine with me but please tell it and we will all know we can neglect your posts because at least we will know you like telling stories.

Gyula

I encountered problems uploading the video. I was ridiculed from the outset because It's possible to precondition a nail core by storing it in a box of magnets.  The video actually conveys a false impression.
 
I described how the "Scrap Yard" magnet works. Milehigh has repeatedly assailed my explaination as false. The Tesla Hi-Voltage bifilar, counter wound coils over a longitudinal ferrite core share a characteristic  with Ed Leedskalnin's horseshoe PMH: Field collapse induced permenent magnet field.!

The video shows my SBC nail picking up twice the paper clips, but the secret is, it will attract the same number of clips with the power disconnected! Why? The SBC nail core was permently magnetized to twice the strength of the mere electromagnetic strength from coil current alone.

Now, I'm thinking through a format to video tape the "Secret of the "Scrap Yard Magnet". A capacitor takes the place of costly coil winding. The trick is to permently magnatize then demagnatize the core. Perhaps I can compose a new video. Why not simply shock yours and see what happens for yorself. Why should I have to spoon feed you skeptics every inch of the way?

I have personally looked into the inside of a scrapyard magnet. How rude for someone to boldly assert that I'm full of scrap. It's enough that I took the time to figure out how to demonstrate the seperate power of the SBC to magnatize core substrate instantly with a high voltage field collapse spike! You try it!
 

 
 

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #178 on: May 22, 2013, 05:21:54 PM »
Hi Farmhand,

I agree with the 'capacity' and 'capacitance' clarification, albeit Tesla often used word 'capacity' where we now would use 'capacitance' but it was okay for his era. 
 
There is one issue which is not yet a 100% clear for me (English is a second language for me). 

It is the following quote from the patent:

If now, as shown in Figure 2, a conductor B be wound parallel with the conductor A and insulated from it, and the end of A be connected with the starting point of B, the aggregate length of the two conductors being such that the assumed number of convolutions or turns is the same, viz., one thousand, then...     

So in case Tesla meant to use the same length of wire for conductor B, does not it mean he actually doubled the total (aggregate) length of the original winding made first from conductor A?   i.e. he meant to make another 1000 turns in parallel with conductor A which already had 1000 turns?  Alltogether he had 2000 turns in series, no?

Or the two conductors together had to have a total of 1000 turns, then this means that from conductor A 500 turns should be removed, right?  but he did not write it specificaly, it simply comes from the second part of the above quote?  (Because Tesla started with 1000 turns for conductor A in Figure 1 as a single wire coil.)

This is what I am unsure in. Is it a 100% sure for you that conductor A should be reduced to 500 turns and conductor B should have also 500 turns to get the total 1000 turns in the series (bifilar) connection?


In my Reply #63 above I included a link to a PDF file which tested the same situation you wrote in the above quote. The lower self resonant frequency is obvious for a bifilarly wound coil using the same amount of wire like the single wire coil:
 http://home.comcast.net/~onichelson/VOLTGN.pdf   

Thanks,  Gyula

Hi Gyula, Sorry I took so long to re-read the patent about this. I can see how English not being your first language would indeed make the patent text difficult to be sure of. If you already came to the conclusion it means what I'm about to say then just ignore this post. 

I think the key word is "assumed",
Quote
being such that the assumed number of convolutions or turns
in that context it means "Taken on" as in [ aggregate ] or [ Total  number turns all together ] ect. So it means he is talking of the same amount of wire in both coils "total", each of the strands of wire in the bifilar coil is half the length of the single strand in the regular coil.

I think he was pointing out in the drawing that the coil should not be just wound so that when finished the ends are cut wherever, but the two strands need be the same length and where the end of the outside wire ends will not be where the end of the inside wire is. Unless if desired the proportion of length between the two wires can be manipulated to finely adjust the "resonance" frequency.

Quote
If now, as shown in Figure 2, a conductor B be wound parallel with the conductor A and insulated from it, and the end of A be connected with the starting point of B, the aggregate length of the two conductors being such that the assumed number of convolutions or turns is the same, viz., one thousand, then...
   

I'm fairly sure you are of the same opinion as many "myself included" that the currents he speaks of need not be the result of the application of a sine wave potential. The currents can be the result of excitation pulses at the correct frequency and they need only be DC pulses if desired, however alternating positive and negative DC pulses can also be used along with sine triangle or square waves ect. the only point on mentioning that is being that if excited at the frequency of resonance for the coil/or circuit including the coil then any arbitrary input wave shape will result in a sinusoidal voltage and current as long as the wave shape is not deformed by loading. This is true with any coil. and Tesla as well quite rightly points out that any coil will act in the same way if the L and C are correct for the frequency of excitement as far as the cancellation of the "effects of self induction" are concerned. And that that is the main point to the patent, to secure the correct L and C for the impressed frequency of vibration. The fact that the coil will actually store more energy for the number of turns because of the greater potential difference is a side bonus or not depending on how you look at it or what you want.

Remembering of course that the insulation thickness of the wire determins the distributed capacitors "voltage rating" and also the effective "capacitance secured" from the voltage potential applied to the winding. Wires can be spaced to reduce the secured capacity for a given voltage as well.

Basically he outlines it all. Even though he just wants to avoid causing "false currents" in the circuit.

Lines 10 to 18

Quote
In electric apparatus or systems in which alternating currents are employed the self induction of the coils
or conductors may and in fact in many cases does operate disadvantageously by giving rise to false currents
which often reduce what is known as the commercial efficiency of the apparatus composing the system or
operate detrimentally in other respects.

Cheers

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #179 on: May 22, 2013, 06:05:56 PM »
And to continue with some random thoughts on the subject, just to share. The cancellation of the "effects of self inductance" thing carries over to lots of things. I've shown that an incandescent light globe with a coiled filament can be pulsed to produce an inductive energy release without lighting the globe much, the globe's filament is a very poor coil, plain and simple. Anything with self inductance and "capacitance"/capacity has an EM resonance frequency and pretty much everything has those things. If we put the correct size capacitor across a light globe with a coiled filament we can neutralize the effects of self inductance in the filament at a given frequency and the globe will be more receptive to high frequency currents. This I believe is the effect we see when people light incandescent globes held in the hand from very high frequency currents that would not seem to be able to have the same effect at the same magnitude but at lower frequencies. The human body is the capacitance and conductor ect. the dynamics can be complicated.

At just after 2:00 minutes I get a HF arc burn say owch and show the bulb lighting effect.  ;D Bear in mind the small Tesla coil is running from a 12 volt battery and consuming only about 6 Watts maximum while running at over 600 kHz.

Light bulb effect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eRiVu-gd1Y

And this is no biggie but it shows the 180 volt spike obtained by pulsing a bulb at 900 kHz with 12 volts. You can see the miller Plataue effect on my gate drive wave form but just ignore that, it's not good I know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l89YgQIIqUY

So if we cancel the self induction of the light bulb it will pass current more readily at the given frequency as per the laws of nature, not mans laws.


Cheers

P.S. I must also say that whilst experimenting I have experienced certain times when the effects of either the electrical oscillations or the related pressure waves have made me feel instantly nauseated or get an almost instant head ache, I think it is a good idea to avoid these frequencies or the processes that cause the sickening feeling, my advice is don't try to ignore it as there is possibility of health issues. Personally I have metal screws in my neck and I think that some frequencies/power levels can have detrimental effects with such things. I find I am very susceptible to resonating pressure waves of certain frequencies in an enclosed space.

This loud spark discharge ringing off the walls in the shed is an example that can be detected but it's not always able to be heard or felt as such, sometimes it just a woosey feeling. It sometimes happens with motors as well.

I made this video mainly for comedy relief as I do at times and to show how the "leaders" reach out from the grounded point towards the terminal then the spark proper uses the ionized route to make a hard conduction. The sound gave me a serious headache a bit later. The video doesn't do proper justice to the suddeness of the crack and ring that follows.

Tesla coil emulating a static machine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ojAlZrUZxE


..


 

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