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Author Topic: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".  (Read 405421 times)

Offline jbignes5

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #840 on: August 28, 2014, 10:43:28 PM »
@Jbigness5,

Thanks!

Tesla appears to power the copper disk with an oscillating sine wave from an LC tank in series, exactly like I power my magnet spinner after the Reed Switch electrodes seperate over the operating frequency and it turns into a capacitor. The big difference is, the magnet spinner reinforces the sine wave amplitude and outputs power back into the circuit!


Let me add that I'm among Farmhand's ardent fans, and believe he should be able to deal with us pirating the thread a little, without jumping overboard!.


 Not quite. They are longitudinal impulses that propagate along 1 wire. Not a sign wave in the least bit. the special transformer does use a capacitive discharge across a magnetic spark gap. this is like a magnetic diode effect that only allows one part of an AC discharge. This is how he gets impulses of the right character. Check out the entire link I provided. It shows all the circuit and not just one aspect like I showed, which is the output usage.

 jbignes5

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #840 on: August 28, 2014, 10:43:28 PM »

Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #841 on: August 28, 2014, 11:50:08 PM »
jbignes5
Thanks very much for your post.
It's good to be able to see more clearly through the eyes of Tesla (and TK), and I appreciate your clarification.
Bob

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #842 on: August 28, 2014, 11:52:53 PM »
@Jbigness5,


Thanks, I'll look at it.


The rated capacitance of the 12 volt Reed Switch is .2 pico farads. Pretty small because only the electrode tips are overlapping, but just right to resonate with an 8 micro henry thread spool coil of 40 turns at 400 hertz. This is where the switch stops closing, and input power is curtailed.


The Resonance Formula for these inductance and capacitive values confirm that the self resonating frequency was exactly at the 25K rpm of the spinner when the speed burst was noticed.     

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #842 on: August 28, 2014, 11:52:53 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #843 on: August 29, 2014, 03:39:43 AM »

 ....a capacitive discharge across a magnetic spark gap. this is like a magnetic diode effect that only allows one part of an AC discharge. This is how he gets impulses of the right character.


From what I know ::) ;D , the magnets blew out the spark like using compressed air, etc. Probably like in a glass television picture tube, the deflection coils can bend the electron beam. So when the cap voltage gets to be enough to jump the gap, as the spark discharges the cap, the stream of electrons is pulled and pushed from its straight path from electrode to electrode due to the srong magnets. Maybe the magnets bend the path enough that it stops due to too great a distance as the bend grows ??? ;D . Also probably cutting off the spark well before completely discharging the cap.

Tito once told me in pm that, yes, he uses a zener as a spark gap.  So possibly putting it all together here, we would need a rectifier diode in series with a reverse biased zener(probably high voltage), in which the rectifier diode forces the one way street and the zener stops conduction from the cap at a particular voltage level. One more item would be needed. A timed/voltage controlled  switch in series with the diode and zener. The trigger level to turn on the transistor would be what ever voltage that is higher than the zener voltage that you desire. This would effectively produce a disrupted discharge. Say the trigger turns on the transistor at say 300v, and the zener cuts it off at 250v. Just an example. The transistor should stay on after trigger voltage is met, possibly also  triggered off when the zener cuts out. Would have to be worked out.

I dont believe that the magnets at the spark gap act as a rectifier.  I believe a spark could happen in either direction, just the bending would be opposite. So the idea of the abrupt cutoff is to stop current in one direction abruptly without any possibility of continued current flow from the cap to the load/coil, like a reed switch allowing current to continue to flow across the spark between the open contacts. And once the cap has lost some charge from an abrupt discharge, the voltage is not high enough to breach the gap, so no chance of refire till the caps voltage reaches breaking point.  In the zener gap model, the switch would be triggered by a preset breach voltage level sensor from the discharge cap. Probably better than trying to use a timer and tune to operating freq.  ;D   And the switch,transistor needs to be turned off just 'after' the zener makes the break in current flow. This way the switch/transistor is protected from possible spikes, that tend to burn transistors.


Mags

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #844 on: August 29, 2014, 01:31:10 PM »

The coil's series bifilar.

Here's the magnet:

1/2" od x 1/8" id x 1/2" thick
Nickel Plated
Diametrically Magnetized


It might help lower the sine wave powering threshold by wiring a higher value capacitor in parallel with the Reed Switch through a DPDT switch. We can run it up and engage the extra tank capacitor by blade switch, to lower the tank frequency and perhaps achieve self running at a lower R.P.M! A trimmer capacitor placed here might act as a speed controller. One switch position for pulse power,  the other for LC oscillating sine wave! Anything in the ballpark might work! I think this system needs a battery for a ground, after sine wave transition, but not for power.


TinselKoala demonstrated that a magnet spinner no longer acts as a load when it's driven by a sine wave, but actually reduces input. The faster it spins, the more power it feeds back to it's own power coil.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #844 on: August 29, 2014, 01:31:10 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #845 on: August 29, 2014, 06:33:40 PM »
The self capacitance of the "Tesla Series Bifilar Coil" helps stabilize the LC tank. The ability of this kind of coil to completely free itself of reactance at high frequency resonance is another topic under discussion in this thread, I feel the subject is in the right area. 


I think this is much easier to succeed at then most people think, and that any dipole magnet, series bifilar power coil pulse motor, can be rigged to self run just by synchronizing the R.P.M to your pre calculated tank frequency. I also think the "Sine Wave Tank" motor will run with the battery removed if the circuit is Earth grounded.
 

Offline jbignes5

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #846 on: August 31, 2014, 05:49:36 AM »
From what I know ::) ;D , the magnets blew out the spark like using compressed air, etc. Probably like in a glass television picture tube, the deflection coils can bend the electron beam. So when the cap voltage gets to be enough to jump the gap, as the spark discharges the cap, the stream of electrons is pulled and pushed from its straight path from electrode to electrode due to the srong magnets. Maybe the magnets bend the path enough that it stops due to too great a distance as the bend grows ??? ;D . Also probably cutting off the spark well before completely discharging the cap.

Tito once told me in pm that, yes, he uses a zener as a spark gap.  So possibly putting it all together here, we would need a rectifier diode in series with a reverse biased zener(probably high voltage), in which the rectifier diode forces the one way street and the zener stops conduction from the cap at a particular voltage level. One more item would be needed. A timed/voltage controlled  switch in series with the diode and zener. The trigger level to turn on the transistor would be what ever voltage that is higher than the zener voltage that you desire. This would effectively produce a disrupted discharge. Say the trigger turns on the transistor at say 300v, and the zener cuts it off at 250v. Just an example. The transistor should stay on after trigger voltage is met, possibly also  triggered off when the zener cuts out. Would have to be worked out.

I dont believe that the magnets at the spark gap act as a rectifier.  I believe a spark could happen in either direction, just the bending would be opposite. So the idea of the abrupt cutoff is to stop current in one direction abruptly without any possibility of continued current flow from the cap to the load/coil, like a reed switch allowing current to continue to flow across the spark between the open contacts. And once the cap has lost some charge from an abrupt discharge, the voltage is not high enough to breach the gap, so no chance of refire till the caps voltage reaches breaking point.  In the zener gap model, the switch would be triggered by a preset breach voltage level sensor from the discharge cap. Probably better than trying to use a timer and tune to operating freq.  ;D   And the switch,transistor needs to be turned off just 'after' the zener makes the break in current flow. This way the switch/transistor is protected from possible spikes, that tend to burn transistors.


Mags


 I haven't started messin with the spark gap thing yet. I need to move myself to a more remote area and start working in my new lab. What I can report is that Tesla knew this was a better way to get an abruptive spark and that it's effects were much smoother, like in the displays he designed to look at these discharges. He also found that the spark gaps robustness was far superior to other methods. In the lecture he describes the effects going from a larger wire circle to a ball electrode. He found that going into a smaller inner surface tended to intensify the discharges going to the center electrode. He talks about the discharges as being unusually smooth and had a better uniformity that he had never seen.


 As for syncro's statements I have to agree. The bifilar seems to be worthy of our study. Think about the increased capacitance alone makes this something special. Built in capacitance inside the coil itself. We know about lcr circuits but this changes things a bit, especially when it is series bifilar.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #846 on: August 31, 2014, 05:49:36 AM »
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Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #847 on: August 31, 2014, 03:37:20 PM »
As for syncro's statements I have to agree. The bifilar seems to be worthy of our study. Think about the increased capacitance alone makes this something special. Built in capacitance inside the coil itself. We know about lcr circuits but this changes things a bit, especially when it is series bifilar.
Is the uniqueness of the swbf coil perhaps due more to its interaction with the dielectric medium than has been acknowledged?
The dielectric is essentially an all pervasive reservoir of stored charge.  That is, a kind of all pervasive capacitance that is constantly discharging and replenishing everywhere.
In the swbf coil we have mutual cancellation of magnetic fields between windings and accompanying minimization of current; we also have accompanying rise in voltage output and raised capacitance between windings.  But at the same time, we also have the interaction of bemf in oppositely-wound coils.

So, while we have concentrated magnetic attraction between windings, we also have interaction of bemf forces between windings.  This means the forces between windings are also coextensive with the dielectric medium - a kind of entry point for the dielectric to rush in to a circuit. 

So yes, the swbf coil acts like a capacitor, a step-up voltage transformer of sorts, but also an entry point for greater interaction between the dielectric medium and circuit.
Might this interaction with the dielectric be part of this coil's magic that made it so important to Tesla?
Bob

Offline sparks

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #848 on: August 31, 2014, 05:49:54 PM »
  It appears to me that the capacitance developed between the adjacent conductors supplies the capacitance needed to match the inductance of the coil without introducing external capacitors.  Old radio transmitters and receivers had a huge problem with capacitors aging.  If the sets sat around for a long time inactive the dielectric coatings on the foils used would change and the capacitors would go far off range.   Circuits had to be utilized to strip and redeposit the dielectric.   Tesla developed the coil because of the problems with lumped components.  There are no buss losses either between inductor and capacitor.   I believe he used the coil as an oscillator.  The spark gap acts to introduce power into the oscillator.  The magnetically quenched spark gap is used just like the blowout coil on a dc circuit breaker.  As soon as current flows through the quenching coil it magnetically blows out the plasma in the gap before the supply capacitor dumps all it's charge.  The coil rings down until the electric field between electrodes in the gap causes the air to ionize into a plasma.   The electrolytic capacitors mentioned above used boron and water.  The electrolyte extends one of the plates electrically to the solid dielectric film of one plate.  There ions are attracted to the cathode and remain there after the voltage is removed from the capacitor.  This keeps the electrons in the cathode plate allowing for the storage of the potential applied.  So in a way the coil for electromagnets acts as a dynamic capacitor.   It stores the energy of each supply capacitor discharge in the oscillations of energy between magnetic field and electric field within the geometry of the coil.

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #848 on: August 31, 2014, 05:49:54 PM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #849 on: August 31, 2014, 06:36:58 PM »
Quote
Is the uniqueness of the swbf coil perhaps due more to its interaction with the dielectric medium than has been acknowledged?
The dielectric is essentially an all pervasive reservoir of stored charge.  That is, a kind of all pervasive capacitance that is constantly discharging and replenishing everywhere.
In the swbf coil we have mutual cancellation of magnetic fields between windings and accompanying minimization of current; we also have accompanying rise in voltage output and raised capacitance between windings.  But at the same time, we also have the interaction of bemf in oppositely-wound coils.

So, while we have concentrated magnetic attraction between windings, we also have interaction of bemf forces between windings.  This means the forces between windings are also coextensive with the dielectric medium - a kind of entry point for the dielectric to rush in to a circuit.

So yes, the swbf coil acts like a capacitor, a step-up voltage transformer of sorts, but also an entry point for greater interaction between the dielectric medium and circuit.
Might this interaction with the dielectric be part of this coil's magic that made it so important to Tesla?
Bob

Bob, The coil for electromagnets or ( a bifilar wound then series connected coil) does not have "mutual cancellation of
magnetic fields between windings and accompanying minimization of current".

The windings are in addition configuration not cancelling, if the winding are connected to cancel each others magnetic fields then
the coil is connected oppositely to how it is connected in the patent, and if connected in cancelling mode the coils when
connected will read very close to zero inductance.

Coils connected in cancelling mode have no place in this thread.

..

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #850 on: August 31, 2014, 06:56:59 PM »
  It appears to me that the capacitance developed between the adjacent conductors supplies the capacitance needed to match the inductance of the coil without introducing external capacitors.  Old radio transmitters and receivers had a huge problem with capacitors aging.  If the sets sat around for a long time inactive the dielectric coatings on the foils used would change and the capacitors would go far off range.   Circuits had to be utilized to strip and redeposit the dielectric.   Tesla developed the coil because of the problems with lumped components.  There are no buss losses either between inductor and capacitor.   I believe he used the coil as an oscillator.  The spark gap acts to introduce power into the oscillator.  The magnetically quenched spark gap is used just like the blowout coil on a dc circuit breaker.  As soon as current flows through the quenching coil it magnetically blows out the plasma in the gap before the supply capacitor dumps all it's charge.  The coil rings down until the electric field between electrodes in the gap causes the air to ionize into a plasma.   The electrolytic capacitors mentioned above used boron and water.  The electrolyte extends one of the plates electrically to the solid dielectric film of one plate.  There ions are attracted to the cathode and remain there after the voltage is removed from the capacitor.  This keeps the electrons in the cathode plate allowing for the storage of the potential applied.  So in a way the coil for electromagnets acts as a dynamic capacitor.   It stores the energy of each supply capacitor discharge in the oscillations of energy between magnetic field and electric field within the geometry of the coil.

Sparks, I agree with you and this has been my contention since i read the patent, the coil being called a [COIL FOR ELECTRO-
MAGNETS] only means that is what he called it. He makes clear claims in the patent. And the coils can be used according to the
patent for various reasons. I found that a bifilar wound then series connected coil for HF that has a reasonable amount of "built
in capacitance" requires less external capacitance and in my latest setups it has allowed me to achieve relatively low frequencies
with only a small external capacitance easily provided by a parallel plate air variable capacitor, this is good because those
capacitors don't wear out and are of course self healing being air dielectric.

You may have noticed that I spaced the pairs of conductors, I think that would cause the majority of the "built in capacitance"
to be between the individual conductors of the conductor pairs, but not between the pairs of conductors. Not that it would make
much difference. It's just a means to an end. I see no evidence that Tesla used these coils in his HF Transmission arrangements
though, all his patents and drawings from the Colorado Springs Notes show that he was trying to minimize the "built in
capacitance" of the HF transmitter arrangements due to the problem of it affecting the frequency and the output.

However one drawback of the "built in capacitance" is that as Tesla explains in the Colorado Springs Notes as the voltage
becomes very high then a lot of energy is "locked" up in that capacitance of the coils themselves.

Magnetically quenched spark gaps have about as much to do with this coil as an elevated capacitance has to an induction motor.  ;)

..

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #850 on: August 31, 2014, 06:56:59 PM »
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Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #851 on: August 31, 2014, 07:40:22 PM »
Bob, The coil for electromagnets or ( a bifilar wound then series connected coil) does not have "mutual cancellation of
magnetic fields between windings and accompanying minimization of current".

The windings are in addition configuration not cancelling, if the winding are connected to cancel each others magnetic fields then
the coil is connected oppositely to how it is connected in the patent, and if connected in cancelling mode the coils when
connected will read very close to zero inductance.

Coils connected in cancelling mode have no place in this thread. 
Just going by the patent you linked at the beginning of this thread, Farmhand.  It states that figure two is:
Quote
2. A coil composed of contiguous or adjacent insulated conductors electrically connected in series and having a potential difference of such value as to give to the coil as a whole, a capacity sufficient to neutralize its self-induction, as set forth.
Bob

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #852 on: August 31, 2014, 08:00:08 PM »

@Bob,

These guys kill me! The canceling effect accompanies the condition of "Self Resonance". They get these mistaken ideas and bogus test results by running zero frequency D.C. current through the  "Tesla Pancake Bifilar Coil" like Conradelektro did in his series of "Super Scientific" coil comparison tests.


Capacity can only neutralize self-induction in the state of "Self Resonance".

They find that the "Bifilar Hairpin" connection measures zero inductance with D.C. current and conclude that Tesla made a mistake! This amounts to the height of preposterousness.


What kind of current does one single pulse induce in the "Tesla Series Bifilar"? That's all it takes to achieve bifilar self resonance. The solitary pulse induces an oscillating sine wave in the Tesla Series Bifilar that resonates at the coils self resonating frequency. The coils Ohmic resistance from "Reactive Impedance" cancels out in the state of self resonance. You need to charge the coil to get the cancellation!


The single pulse induces a resonating A.C. oscillating sine wave in the series bifilar coil! How can a straight zero frequency D.C. current make the coil oscillate? I failed to pound this amount of simple understanding into their thick skulls over a period of years. What a pack of Turkeys! How stupid can people get? It's hard for me to believe that Farmhand is such a simpleton!


Tesla's Pancake coil needs a charge followed by a "Magnetic Field Collapse" to self oscillate. The coil stores enough charge internally from the field collapse , to re-magnetize the field and sustain the oscillation. The Tesla Pancake  Coil needs to be actively oscillating before any of it's characteristics stand out.

Offline sparks

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #853 on: August 31, 2014, 08:59:08 PM »
   I believe that he was planning on using this coil in his magnifying transmitter.  I also believe that the mt was to operate at the lowest possible frequency to reduce electromagnetic wave propogation and loss of energy from the transmitter.   The coil appears in his mt patents as the secondary (a') which is inductively coupled to the 2 turn primary.  Tesla was not trying to produce highfrequency highvoltage electromagnetic energy waves.  He was after megavolts of potential creating an electrical monopole in the extensive ground.  The voltage between the top terminal and the ground in the megavolts.   Any electric field emanating from the coil and connectors had to be uniform so as not to produce coronal losses from the system.  Despite these efforts during testing reports were made of a blue light emanating from the top terminal.  I believe that down in the ground tesla was creating an emitter.  The whole ground becoming negatively charged.  This would cause a flow of current in the ground away from the emitter.  Upon relaxation of the voltage the crammed up electrons would naturally disperse.  This would begin to create waves of charged particles oscillating in the ground at the tower resonant frequency.  Not low-frequency electro-magnetic waves but more like electrical compression waves.

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #854 on: August 31, 2014, 11:39:14 PM »
Your preaching to the choir about most everything except the bifilar wound series connected coils in the magnifying transmitter setups.

All I see is either regular spiral coils or regular solenoid coils.
Can you provide some evidence for the use of the [Coil for electro-magnets] in those patents.

Coil "A" the secondary is a simple single wound solenoid. Coil "C" the primary is also a simple single wound solenoid, and coil "B"
the extra coil is also a simple single wound solenoid. The extra coil appears to be shown wound oppositely to the other two coils
and I think that can be done to reduce or eliminate any coupling between secondary and extra coils, not sure if it's a drawing
oversight or just showing it can be done that way.
http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US1119732-0.png

Remember this [Coil For Electro-Magnets] Patent is not limited to spiral coils the patent clearly states that the patent can be
applied to all coil types.

He covers extensively in the Colorado Springs Notes why he needed to minimize the inherent capacitance in his transmitter coils.

..

 

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