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Author Topic: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".  (Read 405492 times)

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #810 on: July 11, 2014, 10:09:18 PM »
@Milehigh,


Thanks for the BH charts.


Imagine a Trifilar coil around the core, two batteries a commutator and the ferrite core and keeper. Three events; One, the pendulum arm's commutator closes one set of points and runs power to the bifilar coil from one + - facing poles battery. Next, the commutator triggers the second reverse pole facing battery, sending a backwards charge through the bifilar coil, that snap collapses the magnetic field and triggers the fly back into the third pickup coil that directs the flyback pulse to a rated storage capacitor, through a third set of commutator points. Pretty simple circuit for a pendulum. 


Results have demonstrated that the return fro the demagnetization phase is greater then the input required to create the field. JLN measured over eight times the payback in his 2SGEN. Nicoli Zaev and Leon Dragone have results and theory.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #810 on: July 11, 2014, 10:09:18 PM »

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #811 on: July 12, 2014, 01:25:34 AM »
I think a rotary trigger magnet on a tiny motor and two reed switchs would allow one to reverse the current without the pendulum. Switching the two reversed battery currents this way and dispensing with the pendulum would allow harvesting of the demagnetization flyback with the keeper in place. What would the upper limit be on the lock and unlock switch frequency? 1, 10 100 Hertz? The energized field collapse should return more power on it's own then the two battery input pulses!


A bifilar should work fine: One wire to lock and unlock, and the other for output.


No magnetic attraction is detectable in the PMH after locking, and none again after unlocking. There is no residual attraction after reverse pulse! 

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #812 on: July 12, 2014, 02:34:23 AM »
Synchro1:

If you can draw out a circuit and make a timing diagram then we can discuss.

MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #812 on: July 12, 2014, 02:34:23 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #813 on: July 12, 2014, 11:21:16 AM »
@Milehigh,


I can't help with the drawing. The important feature is the sudden snap the commutator or reed switch imparts to the discharge. A DPDT reed switch would reverse the current from one battery. They're pretty costly. I don't think a drawing would be of much help. We're only dealing with one switch. A tiny spinning toy motor with two N S facing trigger magnets on a rotor. The switch triggers from both poles.     

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #814 on: July 12, 2014, 10:23:20 PM »

Here's a reed switch in series with a Leedskalnin PMH coil, powering a N-S magnet rotor:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqJzU321NXs

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #814 on: July 12, 2014, 10:23:20 PM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #815 on: July 13, 2014, 12:28:00 AM »
Synchro, that's a couple of coils in series on a bent piece of steel. What exactly makes it a PMH ?
It's no different from any old piece of U shaped steel with a couple of coils wound on it.

..

Offline stupify12

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #816 on: July 13, 2014, 03:53:47 AM »
Mags,

 I have build the same Bifilar coil into a Tesla Transformer- air core, The effects me and my cousin have seen is when there is load on the secondary coils the Transformer seems to boost its performance and not affected in the so called counter induction. So we tried to add more coils in the Transformer, we have accidentally stumble on it the other secondary is powering a load of bulb with full brightness, accidentally Short circuit the new other Secondary coils that result into a boost of brightness on the bulb being load on the other secondary.

We have tried to make more shorted Bifilar secondary coils on this Transformer it seems to boost its performance with out demanding more power from the input source.


Meow


Also, being that I am running air cores, if I get speed up effects when shorting or loading the bifi, that would be unusual, being that when the coil is open, there is no core to influence the rotor by slowing it down. So why would it speed up loaded?  ;D

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #816 on: July 13, 2014, 03:53:47 AM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #817 on: July 13, 2014, 05:22:55 AM »
Synchro your way off topic, please take the PMH discussion to an appropriate thread and remove any posts about it.

Fairs fair.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #818 on: July 13, 2014, 05:59:57 AM »
Mags,

 I have build the same Bifilar coil into a Tesla Transformer- air core, The effects me and my cousin have seen is when there is load on the secondary coils the Transformer seems to boost its performance and not affected in the so called counter induction. So we tried to add more coils in the Transformer, we have accidentally stumble on it the other secondary is powering a load of bulb with full brightness, accidentally Short circuit the new other Secondary coils that result into a boost of brightness on the bulb being load on the other secondary.

We have tried to make more shorted Bifilar secondary coils on this Transformer it seems to boost its performance with out demanding more power from the input source.


Meow

Hey Stups

So are you saying,  air core transformer, normal winding primary? Then bifi secondary lights bulb, but how is the input affected?  Then, short another secondary bifi and the light gets brighter on the other bifi secondary??  ;D   When that second secondary is shorted, what happens on the primary as compared to no short on second secondary?

Thanks Cat daddyo   ;)

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #818 on: July 13, 2014, 05:59:57 AM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #819 on: August 17, 2014, 12:48:02 PM »
I've have a situation where using the (COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS) will be useful to me. I'll try to explain in a few words.

I have a HF air core transformer which comprises of two coils one each side of the primary, a (bipolar setup center grounded),
each coil is composed of twenty turns of 2 x 1 mm magnet wire, I had intended to use it with the 2 x 1 mm turns in parallel for
low resistance. However there is spacing string between each 2 x 1 mm wire turn but not between the two wires of each turn
see picture. This means the coils have only 28 uH inductance each and for the experiments I want to carry out I need a higher inductance so that I do not need too much external capacitance, then the only external capacitors I need are one 30 to 1300 pF
parallel plate variable air capacitor on each coil to give me the tuning adjustment I want.

The coils each in series connected configuration should have 112 uH each and with a 30 to 1350 pF variable capacitor I should
be able to tune the LC of the coils to get from the 420 kHz (fundamental frequency of primary) all the way to 5 times that
frequency for experimenting with harmonics.

OK so numbers--

So if the coils in series connected mode = 112 uH then I should need 1280 pF to get them to resonate at 420 kHz.
And if the coils have internal capacitance then I should need less external capacitance than 1280 to get the same effect.
If so the tank current will be less than if I used regular coils with 1280 pF.

I will measure the capacitance between the bifilar windings when they are unconnected.
I will then measure the inductance of the coils to see if there is a reduction from the usual 4 x inductance increase due to
the extra winding. Maybe the spacing affected the usual inductance increase.
Then I'll carefully tune the coils (or one at least) to resonance and power off, disconnect the capacitor and measure the
capacitance required for resonance.

So I'll have the measured inductance, I'll have the required capacitance for resonance and I'll have the capacitance measurement
from before series connecting the windings in the coils.

Then I should be able to use the formula/calculator for L/C resonance to get the required capacitance for resonance and compare
that to the actual external capacitance required. The online L/C resonance calculators have been quite accurate for me in the past.

The benefit in my opinion would be that if less external capacitance is required then the tank current should be less as the
internal capacitance should store it's share of the tanks charge on the coils without causing "tank current".

So if we only require activity in a coil or L/C tank at HF then the "biflar wound" series connected method might be beneficial and
more efficient.

I was also thinking that the energy exchange between the "biflar wound" series connected secondaries and the primary might
be different due to the HV end of the first winding being returned to the bottom near the primary.

Anyway below is a picture of the coils and also a schematic of how I intend to set them up for experimenting with the harmonics.
I am using only 12 volts so far but will employ some kind of voltage boosting arrangement on the input to boost the battery voltage.

P.S. With this setup now having 40 turns on each side secondary I should get a magnificent resonant rise of may times the
transformation rate x the input voltage. Each coil should operate as a 1/4 Wave resonator at the fundamental frequency.

..

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #820 on: August 17, 2014, 04:59:37 PM »
Wow, works well anyway, good enough to "strike" the 300 mm tube, meaning it lit up fairly bright then as I increased the tuning
the input current suddenly dropped and the light got good and bright. Still adjustable brightness.  :)

I couldn't get one of the coils into full resonance tonight at the fundamental frequency because I got a spark discharge on my
capacitor and maxed out the power supply current because it jumped into Tinsel Koala's "Supernova mode" where the setup
pulls itself very rapidly into full tune. Tuning down in capacitance and up in frequency Supernova comes on very quick, but tuning
up in capacitance from minimum and down from a higher frequency to resonance the Supernova comes on slower.
Then I decided to light up a tube and see what happened.  ;D

I made a mistake about the minimum size of the variable capacitors it must be 300 pF to 1300 pF, because I cant get the coils tuned
down in capacitance to get up to the 1260 kHz mark, 3 x primary frequency. But it does get some voltage and activity at 840 kHz.
Could it be the extra capacitance of the coils maybe, I measured 580 pF between open windings and each secondary has 120 uH
now with the coils in series connected mode.

I'll investigate the coil and capacitance thing tomorrow, when I work out how I will manage full voltage with no load.
Considering this setup has only 40 turns on each side and I only tuned and scoped one side and 8 primary turns the voltage rise
is pretty wild. Q factor should be fairly good.

Some pictures. Only the right hand secondary was tuned and used. First is the setup as it was when I took the top left shot.
Top left shot shows the voltage while driving the tube. top right input power.
Bottom left is the highest voltage I dared before it sucked itself into resonance. and right is the secondary at double frequency.

I think that's a 10 Watt tube, Says HV Cathode on it.  I've got an 18 Watt 3 foot tube which is what I would want to use x 2.
Itching to get some good measurements on the tank and load powers. Input was under 4 Watts once the tube was struck.

..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #820 on: August 17, 2014, 04:59:37 PM »
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Offline stupify12

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #821 on: August 23, 2014, 01:06:39 AM »
Hello  :D

Asking for clarification on experts in building Tesla Coils.

How do you understand this title of Nikola Tesla "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS"?
Should we used this Coil for our PRIMARY Electro-Magnets or Secondary Electro- Magnets?

Tesla always use this Coil on his Primary and Secondary..

What really happen if this Coil (Bifilar Configuration) neutralize the Self Induction(CEMF) in a coil while in operation?

Just asking for some clarification.


Meow   :D

Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #822 on: August 23, 2014, 01:20:49 PM »
What really happen if this Coil (Bifilar Configuration) neutralize the Self Induction(CEMF) in a coil while in operation?
Just asking for some clarification.
Meow   :D 
Hello Stupify!
This is the way I understand the series wound bifilar coil's activity. If we look at parallel-wound wires, there is repulsion between them due to like magnetic fields.  If the wires are wound in series bifilar fashion, the wires' opposite radial magnetic forces cause them to attract, and we know that this is what causes them to cancel one another's fields. So we in fact have a greater concentration of magnetic field between the turns at the same time as increased capacitance (as per Tesla's patent).  But think about the structure of the magnet that our friend Theoriaapophasis (Ken) has been talking about. The magnet interacts with the dielectric all around us, and the dielectricity terminates as magnetism. This means that with the increased magnetic field between turns, there is also increased interaction with the dielectric.  That is, there is greater opportunity for dielectric influx into your system. I think this is why you saw increased power draw from your apparatus in your post above.
Stay well, my feline friend!
Bob

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #823 on: August 23, 2014, 03:44:00 PM »
The similarity between Farmhand's schematic and the solid state "Synchro Coil" are strong. I called for two series bifilar pancake coil LC tanks, one on each end of a diametric tube magnet, and a third bifilar wound length wise. A 3-D spindle could slide this output coil over the tube magnet.


The big difference is, the power goes the other way! A tiny D.C  current tops off the spiral coil LC tanks in the magnet exciter coils. The oscillating sine wave in the pancake coils alone causes a fluctuation in the permanent magnet field that results in output through what would be the primary in Farmhand's design. There's no load on the spiral tank circuits in the "Synchro Coil" unlike Farmhand's backwards current version, where power in equals power out.


The magnet can be viewed as a reactive power transverter with no "Lenz Drag" from the secondary. The self oscillating frequency of the spiral exciter coil LC tanks has to match the resonant frequency of the permanent magnet which is around 180 khz. This is where the magnet should begin to "Ring" from the LC resonant sandwich.
       
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 05:44:34 PM by synchro1 »

Offline jbignes5

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #824 on: August 23, 2014, 04:55:15 PM »
Wow, works well anyway, good enough to "strike" the 300 mm tube, meaning it lit up fairly bright then as I increased the tuning
the input current suddenly dropped and the light got good and bright. Still adjustable brightness.  :)

I couldn't get one of the coils into full resonance tonight at the fundamental frequency because I got a spark discharge on my
capacitor and maxed out the power supply current because it jumped into Tinsel Koala's "Supernova mode" where the setup
pulls itself very rapidly into full tune. Tuning down in capacitance and up in frequency Supernova comes on very quick, but tuning
up in capacitance from minimum and down from a higher frequency to resonance the Supernova comes on slower.
Then I decided to light up a tube and see what happened.  ;D

I made a mistake about the minimum size of the variable capacitors it must be 300 pF to 1300 pF, because I cant get the coils tuned
down in capacitance to get up to the 1260 kHz mark, 3 x primary frequency. But it does get some voltage and activity at 840 kHz.
Could it be the extra capacitance of the coils maybe, I measured 580 pF between open windings and each secondary has 120 uH
now with the coils in series connected mode.

I'll investigate the coil and capacitance thing tomorrow, when I work out how I will manage full voltage with no load.
Considering this setup has only 40 turns on each side and I only tuned and scoped one side and 8 primary turns the voltage rise
is pretty wild. Q factor should be fairly good.

Some pictures. Only the right hand secondary was tuned and used. First is the setup as it was when I took the top left shot.
Top left shot shows the voltage while driving the tube. top right input power.
Bottom left is the highest voltage I dared before it sucked itself into resonance. and right is the secondary at double frequency.

I think that's a 10 Watt tube, Says HV Cathode on it.  I've got an 18 Watt 3 foot tube which is what I would want to use x 2.
Itching to get some good measurements on the tank and load powers. Input was under 4 Watts once the tube was struck.

..


 Try putting the coils and cap in a mineral oil bath. This will allow you to push the system further then you are being able to without breakdowns of the air. Also the wires carrying the high voltage energy should be statically shielded by using aluminum strips overlapped, no grounding, then covering that shielding with rubber cement remember to use this only where you don't want the energy to interact with the environment. Make sure the bands are within the frequency of the device, this will increase the capacity of the wires up to certain limits. Even this method will break down at a certain level so this will only be as good as you make it.


 jbignes5

 

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