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Author Topic: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".  (Read 429647 times)

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #720 on: January 19, 2014, 10:11:46 PM »
You snap it across battery electrodes. You need to charge the coil to get it to work. That's where it gets the 250,000 times the potential between the windings. The same goes for the nail and paper clip magnetic strength test. You need to induce the Hi-voltage into the coil , it dosen't show up from nowhere! Think about it!

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #721 on: January 19, 2014, 10:19:25 PM »
Shortly after the battery disconnects the coil is back to normal.  It doesn't remain charged.  Your comment is silly.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #722 on: January 19, 2014, 10:21:39 PM »
Says you! It needs a solid WHACK, not just regular current run through.

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #723 on: January 19, 2014, 10:25:54 PM »
For people who are willing to learn:

The ability of an inductor to store energy in the form of a magnetic field (and consequently to oppose changes in current) is called inductance. It is measured in the unit of the Henry (H).

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_15/1.html

"So, if you send a current through a coil, the magnetic field strength depends on the inductance of the coil and on the amount of the current. If the inductance of two coils is equal, for every amount of current sent through the two coils there will be an equal magnetic field strength."

Why do you think people invented the term "inductance" and use it?

I am just a beginner, but I have learned some basics. The idea is to learn, not to talk like a Parrot who does not know what it is saying.

And again I made a grave error. One should not respond to silly posts, it encourages the idiot to post again some nonsense. I will not do it again. I wanted to be nice and do an experiment because I found some material in my lab, but whatever one shows, the idiot will talk around it.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #724 on: January 19, 2014, 10:57:06 PM »
My first serial bifilar was shop wound, 800 turns, filled with welding rods. I was testing it's magnetic strength running dc current through it with a 12 volt battery, then suddenly a shock went through the coil and when re-connected, it pulled a cutlery case all the way across the kitchen counter, scaring me. I don't need to read any text material from you to help me understand my experience.


Try and impulse charge the serial pancake with high voltage, then retest it and see if it makes a difference.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #725 on: January 19, 2014, 11:11:33 PM »
My first serial bifilar was shop wound, 800 turns, filled with welding rods. I was testing it's magnetic strength running dc current through it with a 12 volt battery, then suddenly a shock went through the coil and when re-connected, it pulled a cutlery case all the way across the kitchen counter, scaring me. I don't need to read any text material from you to help me understand my experience.


Try and impulse charge the serial pancake with high voltage, then retest it and see if it makes a difference.

First, are you saying that you put the 12v batt across the coil, is that put on as continuous dc, or just pulsing it?
Second, when did the 'shock' happen? When the batt was pulsed to the coil or mid dc current?

Third, what makes the coil different after the 'shock'? Is it that the core has become magnetized, or are you saying the coil capacitance is charged?  Unless both ends of the coil are open, there is no charge in the coils cap when series connected with open ends and no input.

Mags

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #726 on: January 19, 2014, 11:24:07 PM »
The pulse apparently magnetized the welding rod core. The magnetizing force of the coil multiplied tremendously! Conradelektro should try and pulse magnetize the steel plate while he has the experiment set up. This is similar to the PMH effect. I want them to awaken to the superior magnetizing power that's latent in that serial bifilar pancake coil!

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #727 on: January 19, 2014, 11:32:05 PM »
The pulse apparently magnetized the welding rod core. The magnetizing force of the coil multiplied tremendously! Conradelektro should try and pulse magnetize the steel plate while he has the experiment set up. This is similar to the PMH effect. I want them to awaken to the superior magnetizing power that's latent in that serial bifilar pancake coil!

Pulse with what?

Mags

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #728 on: January 19, 2014, 11:36:48 PM »
It looks like pretty thick wire. I would try a 12 volt car battery. These coils start to exhibit special qualities when activated with hi-voltage pulse. I want him to try to pulse the coil over the steel plate and see if the plate acts like a magnet.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #729 on: January 19, 2014, 11:59:25 PM »

...  you're changing your mind now and maintaining that Itsu's running at 2250 RPM and quoting me as wrong, when you stated that his RPM was 9,000!
...

synchro01:

Yes, that is why I wrote (in the 2nd paragrph) that WE ALL make mistakes! (I forgot about the 4 magnets on the rotor, concentrated on the measured output frequency on the scope.)

Of course you did not consider that either: no wonder here though because you do not consider several posts in which facts are asked from you to prove your nonsense or made-out claims like:

in Reply #692: "The Tesla serial Pancake coil was patented as an iron ferrite MAGNETIZER COIL!"  or

in Reply #702: "Let me add that the series bifilar pancake or solenoid coil has to be CHARGED initially to reach it's full potential. This is done simply by snapping a good spark across the leads."

Please show evidence where Tesla wrote such claims! 

Or another strange "idea" from you: in your paper clip test you also "charge" the (16 penny) nail (with the bifi coil on it) first, and you do not care that making the nail a quasi permanent magnet with your "charge" treatment you strongly alter the conditions for comparable tests: in the original link you brought in as 'the proof', http://www.tesla-coil-builder.com/bifilar_electromagnet.htm  such "pre-charging" for the nail is simply NOT mentioned. And I already told you: this treatment for the nails is not a repeatable process if done by hand: micro or milliseconds are involved and this defines the strength of the nail magnetization and the time duration of the treatment is uncontrollable by hand.

Yet, it is you who mock members here or you use personal insults like recently "Petro Nazi" to MileHigh in Reply #550 but see #551 too,  what is more in the end of your Reply #552 you insulted Farmhand, the person who asked you to remove the insult, and because he also dared to write "there is no magic in a series connected bifilar coil" you labeled Farmhand as Petrophile too.

If you think you are on the Wild West, then please look for other places to shoot your guns. Till you do not show a meaningful input / output power measurements on your setup that includes the performance of the magical "synchro" coil, there is no sense from you to force it with words and talks and insults.

Gyula





Offline Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #730 on: January 20, 2014, 12:36:45 AM »
It looks like pretty thick wire. I would try a 12 volt car battery. These coils start to exhibit special qualities when activated with hi-voltage pulse. I want him to try to pulse the coil over the steel plate and see if the plate acts like a magnet.
From what I understand of a pancake as a magnet, it should magnetize the plate radially, if the pulse or input is strong enough. Meaning the center of the plate would be 1 pole, and the outer diameter would be the opposite pole. That would make the plate an unusual magnet. ;) All one pole on the outer edge of the disk.

Mags


Offline Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #731 on: January 20, 2014, 01:26:49 AM »
Just got the coil wound. I use a bit of glue to hold the outer windings down so it doesnt accidentally unravel. Mistakes with this wire are painful. But 55000 ft for 35 bucks, and I can do a lot of experiments at less expense. Imagine the same coil made of say 16awg 3000 total truns. It would be huge and not cheap. For experimentation purposes anyway. ;D

Glue is drying and terminals ready to terminate. Then we measure. Any body want to try and guess what capacitance it may have before I measure it? ;D


Mags

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #732 on: January 20, 2014, 03:01:01 AM »
I did the "pan cake coil on a steel plate and aluminium plate" test.

Both the bifilar and the monofilar pan cake coil show the same increase of inductance when put on a mild steel plate (34 µH increases to 50 µH).

Both coils do not show an increase of inductance when put on a aluminium plate.

As I recall, someone expected some magic when doing this test? Unfortunately there is no magic. But of course, I for sure did something wrong.

Greetings, Conrad

Results are as expected I think, not sure who or what comment you refer to. Anyway I was thinking of using a steel plate as a load so that when tuned the coil is tuned to a load as with and induction cooker or induction heater there is some energy removed and the Electro-Magnet is doing some work to heat the load. The wanted output product is heat in the steel plate in that experiment.

My thinking is that with bifilar serial connected coils if we tune the bifilar coil to a certain frequency then the capacitor required to tune the monofilar to the same frequency (for maximum heating output on the load) is external. Then the bifilar coil should see less current as the field declines due to the unused energy being stored in the capacitance of the bifilar coil where as in the monofilar coil some of the unused energy is stored in the external capacitor.

Both should do the same work on the load but the bifilar one should see less or no "Tank current". There is loss in that "extra" current, if the capacitance is all distributed the loss would be less. I think that is what Tesla describes in his patent as well. In a way.

P.S.

Basically when comparing a given distributed capacitance as the "C" of a "Tank" to that of an external capacitance equal to the distributed case, as the "C" of an identical frequency Tank, then the distributed capacitance should be "Inherently" more efficient due to less current in the coil or "through the coil in the case of the external capacitor one.

.. 

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #733 on: January 20, 2014, 11:39:34 AM »
From what I understand of a pancake as a magnet, it should magnetize the plate radially, if the pulse or input is strong enough. Meaning the center of the plate would be 1 pole, and the outer diameter would be the opposite pole. That would make the plate an unusual magnet. ;) All one pole on the outer edge of the disk.

Mags

I found the attached images depicting the magnetic field of a pancake coil and of one loop of wire.

The pan cake coil is the primary of a Tesla coil and has a hole in the middle (on the image the pan cake coil is depicted as 3 dots left and right of the cut through the upright Tesla secondary).

The field of a pan cake coil is in principle like the field of a helical coil. No way that there is a pole on the rim. The poles are axial like in any coil.

Any wire loop creates in principle the same magnetic field if current flows through the wire.

Old but still nice explanations: http://onlinephys.com/magnetism.html

My opinion: there is so much unfounded hype about pan cake coils and bifilar coils, real measurements are very rare.


Prediction for inductance and self capacitance of Mag's new little bifilar coil (but please do the measurements, it is just a guess):

wires in series: 100 to 200 mH , self capacitance 1 to 5 nF

only one wire: 25 - 50 mH, self capacitance 100 to 500 pF

Greetings, Conrad

Offline synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #734 on: January 20, 2014, 04:25:51 PM »
Results are as expected I think, not sure who or what comment you refer to. Anyway I was thinking of using a steel plate as a load so that when tuned the coil is tuned to a load as with and induction cooker or induction heater there is some energy removed and the Electro-Magnet is doing some work to heat the load. The wanted output product is heat in the steel plate in that experiment.

My thinking is that with bifilar serial connected coils if we tune the bifilar coil to a certain frequency then the capacitor required to tune the monofilar to the same frequency (for maximum heating output on the load) is external. Then the bifilar coil should see less current as the field declines due to the unused energy being stored in the capacitance of the bifilar coil where as in the monofilar coil some of the unused energy is stored in the external capacitor.

Both should do the same work on the load but the bifilar one should see less or no "Tank current". There is loss in that "extra" current, if the capacitance is all distributed the loss would be less. I think that is what Tesla describes in his patent as well. In a way.

P.S.

Basically when comparing a given distributed capacitance as the "C" of a "Tank" to that of an external capacitance equal to the distributed case, as the "C" of an identical frequency Tank, then the distributed capacitance should be "Inherently" more efficient due to less current in the coil or "through the coil in the case of the external capacitor one.

..


Farmhand is underscoring an important difference here  in the sensor characteristics of the serial biflilar. "the bifilar coil should see less current as the field declines". The serial bifilar needs it's capacitance charged to begin with, just like the external capacitor on the monifilar! Energy stored in the capacitance of the bifilar coil has to intitiate from somewhere.