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Author Topic: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".  (Read 505771 times)

gnino

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #495 on: November 09, 2013, 11:39:44 AM »
Here some test wich i made
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=huKivwkvpoY
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oSXVKaHm4mc
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rT0wMYdogVM

I'm not 100% satisfied because the coil are made with litz wire and maybe there is
Some broke wire or i don't cleanup properly the ends , wanna redo the test with magnet wire stay tuned

Ciao Luca

synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #496 on: December 31, 2013, 04:18:43 PM »
Conradelektro is resuming testing of Tesla's pancake coil. I'm resurrecting this thread and transferring comments from the "Self accelerating Reed switch magnet spinner" thread where they originated.


Here's the latest comment from Milehigh:

Conrad:

For the pancake coils, about 10 cm in diameter should be fine.  You can use whatever gauge of wire you want for the pancake coils.  I would recommend that you do a regular and a bifilar coil and use the same wire.  You may want to use a smaller gauge of wire within reason so that you can get more inter-coil capacitance with the bifilar version.  For me that's not really a valid issue because my assumption is that the inter-coil capacitance will be insignificant and will not show any significant effects.  The effects of the capacitance will be so small that in many cases they will not even be measurable.

There is a fair amount of magnetic field self-cancellation in a pancake coil so I would expect that the inductance measurement would be quite low.

This is a typical case were visualization in your mind can be used as a tool.  It's easy to visualize the field of the spinning rotor magnet.  It's easy to imagine how each individual loop of the pancake coil will "see" the changing magnetic flux.  Where it gets complicated in this case is what happens when current starts to flow in the pancake coil and how do you visualize that?   A loop in the middle of the pancake has a relationship with both the smaller loops and the larger loops.  In certain regions there is magnetic field cancellation and in other regions there is magnetic field addition.  The net result is that the pancake coil has a certain inductance value and a certain field pattern.  Thankfully with the scope you can just look at the resultant waveforms and put the complicated pancake coil geometry inside a "black box."

Whatever tests you do with your regular and pancake coils, it's great that you are willing to do comparative tests.  It's really important and it would be good if all experimenters took this approach.  Will you find any differences between a regular pancake coil and a bifilar true-Tesla pancake coil?  I am assuming that you will not see any differences.

MileHigh


Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #497 on: January 01, 2014, 10:56:50 PM »
This guy is so good.  This is about being trapped in the bubble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGEKnHdKJVc

Who's in the bubble and who's standing outside?

I don't have much time for magicians they are liars.

The guy used a trick deck of cards, the Ace of spades is black but the rest of the cards are the wrong color, the clubs are red and the diamonds are black ect.

The best way to deal with magicians is to realize that every thing they do is an illusion and they spend a lot of time and effort to trick people which is pathetic.

I bet if I put in enough time I could trick him in several ways. But to what end, should we really be admiring deceptive people. If he had used a standard set of cards it would not work so well. I'm not impressed at all. Kiddies tricks.

Cheers

P.S. He's an amateur, he needs special props and camera tricks. Busted almost immediately I watched it.  ;) People think of say the 7 of diamonds and they will look for a red card and disregard the black cards which is the smart thing to do as it takes out 50% of the cards to look at, Simply put if you think of a red card you do not look at the black cards. It would not work with a standard deck of cards. meaning it not much of a trick.

Look at it this way I visualized a red 7 of diamonds and that card never existed in the deck, it was never in there so he did not make it disappear, therefore he is flat out lying.

Without the lies there is no trick. The illusion is invalid as it is based on a deliberate lie. If the Ace of spades he shows was red like the other spades, the gig is up before it begins.

..

So MileHigh, would you say I am trapped in a bubble ?

second picture shows the "Black 7 of diamonds" which is not the card I visualized, he never made the card I visualized disapear because you cannot make something not there disapear.

..


Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #498 on: January 01, 2014, 11:48:52 PM »
Jbignes5:

I am going to quote Mark E. from a PESN comment on the subject of Dollard:

You can't just look at a setup and say, "That's longitudinal energy in action."  You would have to prove it and that means you need a fancy lab set up with all sorts of RF measuring instruments and you would have to know what you are doing.  Light bulbs under water is a parlor trick I have seen many times.  Water is an insulator and the electricity will take the path of least resistance which is through the light bulb element.  It's like a magic show taking advantage of the audience's preconceptions and using a bit of misdirection.  Can you see clearly?  Have a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPfTqrmnQuw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3iPrBrGSJM

If you can point me to an experiment that shows something special, I'll have a look.

MileHigh

The first trick is explained in the video it is camera angles.

The second trick is likely using trick glasses and/or trick fluid that foams up and increases volume. He begins pouring the liquid in the very side of the trick glass and when nearly "seemingly full" he tips some towards the middle, he never shows the inside of the glass from the top and the trick will no work if anyone asks to see inside the glasses. We can see the fluid becomes more translucent in the bigger glass when it should become more opaque due to the light being less able to penetrate through more liquid, which tells me the liquid is only around the side of the glass in a cylinder and not filling the glass. If he spoke he would be lying. There is nothing admirable about deliberate lying and deception.

..

There is only one type of energy and it results in work done, If work is done it can be measured, those who say the work done by any so called longitudinal energy cannot be seen to be done and measured are mistaken I think or mad. (not saying it cannot be called that just saying), energy is energy. Gee wizz.

Any argument that work can be done and it cannot be observed is non sense. 

..

They continue to maintain there is something special about apparent propagation velocities, but the effect is predicted and calculated by the online Tesla coil designing apps, so the effect is already well known and understood. And there is ample proof of that.

..

MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #499 on: January 03, 2014, 07:34:17 AM »
Farmhand:

I think that you are taking the wrong message from those clips.  The clips are about showing you how your conceptions, preconceptions, expectations, and basic human limits in on-the-spot mental gymnastics can affect you and how you percieve the world around you.  You can apply that model to what can transpire when a fake free energy clip is seen for the first time by an enthusiast.   It's akin to an optical illusion but it's a psychological illusion.

MileHigh

TinselKoala

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #500 on: January 03, 2014, 10:55:36 AM »
@Farmhand: Richard Wiseman is a perceptual psychologist, a wellknown and respected one, and his "magic" demonstrations are about perceptions and cognitive processing. You seem to be missing that entirely. Were you "fooled" by a stage magician at an early age, and traumatized by it or something? Wiseman is not a liar, as you seem to think. The display of black hearts and diamonds in the trick deck isn't to gain an advantage over you by lying to you, but rather is to make a point about your expectations, beliefs, your perceptions and your processing. Calling his demonstrations "lies" just shows that you somehow have missed the point.
Here's another one of Richard's videos that I really like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv9nleiFogc

Farmhand

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #501 on: January 03, 2014, 12:48:23 PM »
Traumatized by a magician, not likely, ;D I just don't like them as is my right. The man said he would make the card I visualized disappear, he failed and lied. I understand what he does and I don't think it is very useful.

I don't understand why you would feel the need to ask if I must have been traumatized or something.

MileHigh's post was off topic and so I gave an opinion as to how the tricks were done and my opinion on it all.

You're entitled to your opinion as am I.


Cheers


synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #502 on: January 03, 2014, 05:15:49 PM »
@Farmhand,


                  Right on! After all that tedious malarky by Milehigh about the missing difference between the monofilar and series bifilar coils, he sneakily seduces a novice experimenter named "Conradelektro" from my "Self acceleration" thread to try and "Demystify" the Tesla coil according to his criteria.

                   I challenge both Milehigh and Tinselkoala to a no limits bet, that I will board a plane to London England to insure with "Lloyds of London" tomorrow! I am willing to bet any amount of money from my pool, that no monofilar pancake coil can transfer power without heating up like the series bifilar pancake coil does off JLN's commercial hotplate.

MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #503 on: January 04, 2014, 03:37:39 AM »
Synchro1:

Quoting you:

Quote
Right on! After all that tedious malarky by Milehigh about the missing difference between the monofilar and series bifilar coils, he sneakily seduces a novice experimenter named "Conradelektro" from my "Self acceleration" thread to try and "Demystify" the Tesla coil according to his criteria.

I was reading the Revolution Green web site and I came across a snippet from a long post that is quoted below.  You should contemplate the words of the poster Catbauer24 from the "'Clueless Voices for Demons': Sterling Allan" thread:

Quote
I would agree there are way too many ignorant, arrogant comments from people with so little understanding, but so much "faith".  I think this may be where I might agree with Atheists to some extent, 'believers' can be very ignorant and closed-minded, ignoring learning and understanding in favor of their arrogance and ignorance.

MileHigh

synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #504 on: January 04, 2014, 04:40:10 PM »
@Milehigh,


               What about the bet? Secondly, Sterling Allen was selling plans for the bogus Mylow "Permanent Magnet Motor" when he was assaulted.

MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #505 on: January 05, 2014, 07:49:57 AM »
Quote
I challenge both Milehigh and Tinselkoala to a no limits bet, that I will board a plane to London England to insure with "Lloyds of London" tomorrow! I am willing to bet any amount of money from my pool, that no monofilar pancake coil can transfer power without heating up like the series bifilar pancake coil does off JLN's commercial hotplate.

This is just noise and tomfoolery.
 

conradelektro

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #506 on: January 06, 2014, 12:44:30 PM »
Because I want to do some comparative testing of coils (bi-filar versus mono-filar) I went through this thread (which costed me many hours).

At the beginning of this thread I found some very helpful posts about measuring coil resonance and other coil parameters by

gyulasun,
MileHigh  and
TinselKoala.

I collected the many good references and explanations and will use these techniques (function generator and scope). I have some questions, but I will post them once I started with real measurements (exact circuit layout for testing a coil with a function generator and a scope). It will take some time to go through the material and to understand it.

My understanding is that no tests have been done concerning the difference of bi-filar and mono-filar coils as "pick up coils" or "generator coils". But I might have overlooked it or misunderstood something. The capability to act as a good "pick up or generator coil" might follow from the discussed coil parameters?

Nevertheless I want to do a few tests in this area.

Greetings, Conrad

P.S.: I will not create a new thread for my tests, because this thread covered already most of the topic and looks like the right place.

synchro1

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #507 on: January 06, 2014, 03:06:17 PM »
@Conradelektro,


Thanks for following through with the correct format. Consolidation of thread content is essential for practical research. My special interest is to see if you can measure any difference in the magnetic power per unit of input, between the monifilar and series bifilar spiral pancake. I'm looking forward to your results.  

conradelektro

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #508 on: January 07, 2014, 06:44:34 PM »
I wound two pan cake coils, one monofilar the other bifilar. The physical dimensions are almost identical and I used the same wire and wound the same number of turns (bifilar has half the number of turns but the same length of wire).

See the drawing for the specification of the coils and some measurements. The coils are held between two plexi glass sheets.

I also did a first test with the coils as pick up coils at 15 mm distance from the spinning magnet (1200 rpm). See the drawing for the result.

Astonishing enough, I can not see any difference in the coils (DC resistance, inductance and pick up capability seem to be identical).

I have a question concerning TinselKoala's video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpJwCNBHUh0 (Scoposcopy):

Attached please see a circuit diagram for the "coil resonance measurement", is this correct?

TinselKoala's pan cake coil (from the video with a 14 strand wire) has 0.2 Ohm DC resistance and 102 µH inductance, my pan cake coils have a DC resistance of 0.4 Ohm and 34 µH inductance. This seems to be consistent because TinselKoala's pan cake coil is bigger and has a very conductive wire (14 strand) while my coils have only a one strand wire and are smaller. In my coils the wire turns are farther apart (due to the thick insulation of the wire) which should result in a lower inductance.

Greetings, Conrad

TinselKoala

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #509 on: January 07, 2014, 07:51:43 PM »
Sorry, I've been distracted and didn't see your question until alerted by your PM.

Yes, it looks like you are going to do just what I showed in the video. I believe your schematic is correct for this method.

Keep up the good work and be sure to post your results!



ETA: Also, be sure to check out the video from "Gestalt Reality" that Mark D. linked in his "Thane debunked" article on revolution-green. It's long but contains highly significant information.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfRxsC9yumQ

I would be interested to see if you can detect any voltage difference when your two coils are open, rather than feeding a load.