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Author Topic: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".  (Read 508820 times)

MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #480 on: July 24, 2013, 09:43:03 PM »
Jbignes5:

Please take it easy, we are just here to debate.  The coil has been discussed here, there is lots of good information.  Nobody is disputing anything about AC vs. DC.  You state, "impulses would be greatly enhanced by the coils design."  It all depends what you mean by "enhanced," that's not a technical term.  What do you mean?  Yes all coils can generate high voltage impulses, so that can't be what you are referring to.  You state, "Impulses of a one way direction are very powerful and would benefit from this type of capacitance increase in it's very design."  I notice you have said that before but what do you mean in technical terms?

For this comment, "Plus I am betting the current loop that this design incorporates is self accelerating in some way," is not a technical description.  The first thing you have to be thinking about is that if you are in AC self-resonant mode, then the current is a sine wave.  If you are in DC mode, the coil by definition resists changes in current.

Check this out, a great clip about the basics of inductance with the basic math made easy, and pay careful attention to the end of the clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8CPGiK59f8

Does that clip give you a feeling for how a coil works?

The guy's clips are great:  http://www.youtube.com/user/lasseviren1/videos

You accuse me of not knowing what I am talking about.  I do know what I am talking about.  Look at all his clips, that's what you should look at and try to absorb before you do some bench work.

Quote
The amount of winding necessary is minimum 500-1000 turns. Thats a lot of coil building. I will have to make up a jig to wind the coil properly.

I have some advice for you:  Just go to an electronics supply/hobbyist store and buy a nice big spool of wire whatever gauge you want.  That's it!  Just use the spool as is!  You could even buy a giant spool of two-conductor wire and within minutes have a giant Tesla series bifilar cap-coil.  Like taking candy from a baby.

I would strongly suggest that you avoid the oil immersion stuff for starters.  See what you can do without the oil before you start gooping your coils into buckets of oil or whatever you are going to do.  Gross!

MileHigh

MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #481 on: July 24, 2013, 10:06:55 PM »
Jbignes5:

I have some comments about what you call "impulses."

In my mind I imagine that you imagine that if you hit a cap-coil with a train of short high-voltage impulses something out of the ordinary will happen.  That's the big thing that you want to explore with the cap-coil on the bench.  Am I close?

If you hit the cap-coil with impulses close or on its self-resonant frequency you can expect to see the sine wave oscillations taking place in the coil.

But if your pulsing is very slow, say 1 kHz, then the coil will not even really respond.  Again, coils resist changes in current flow.  If you pulse it with a sharp, short pulse of voltage, it won't react, it won't "budge."  It will act like an open-circuit.

Now you can run tests like these and you might find a cap-coil and a regular coil respond slightly differently.  So the questions are can you explain why and is the difference significant or noteworthy or advantageous in any way?

MileHigh

MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #482 on: July 24, 2013, 11:43:13 PM »
I just had an original idea for you Tesla series bifilar coil builders.

There are all sorts of multi-strand cables you can buy.  I think of the ones used in phone patch panels.  They have a grey outer sheath and then there is a wire bundle, perhaps anywhere from eight to 50+ wires in the bundle.  The wires are all binary colour-coded and easy to identify.  This is solid copper wire with a thin and tough insulation cover.  A keener would check the insulating material and look up its relative permittivity to see if it will give them a capacitive boost.

So suppose you get a big spool of this phone wire, the 16-strand version.  You strip off a few inches of sheath and carefully note the geometry of the wires in the bundle.  So you separate the strands into eight strands for the first half of the SBC coil and eight strands of the second half, such that they are all interleaved one next to the other in the bundle, like a checkerboard arrangement.  Note its an arrangement of interleaving conductors that's *tightly machine wound* for optimum capacitive effects.  It's just insane!  It's sick!

This arrangement looks like a cap-coil but with supercharged capacitance.  Each "wire" forming the half-coil has been sliced into eight spaghetti strands and interleaved with the eight spaghetti strands of the other half-coil.  So you can see that you have just increased the plate area of your capacitor by a huge amount.

You solder the ends of the strands together and screw your wire into a terminal block.  So you end up with a terminal block with the four electrical contacts for your two half-coils for the SBC coil.  Then you can wire it up as you please and nothing is stopping you from using the terminal block for wiring in things like loads or current sensing resistors, light bulbs, etc.

There is an important point related to this.  Big coils, you figure you want to have big currents.  Alligator clips won't work in this setup.  Nice bigger-gauge "vice" type terminal blocks making a simple patch field for your experiments would be much better.  You can make short lengths of thick wire with tinned ends to do interconnects, etc, and tighten them down with a screwdriver.

If anybody plays with a big coil just remember that it can zap you.

MileHigh

jbignes5

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #483 on: July 25, 2013, 01:24:47 AM »
Jbignes5:

I have some comments about what you call "impulses."

In my mind I imagine that you imagine that if you hit a cap-coil with a train of short high-voltage impulses something out of the ordinary will happen.  That's the big thing that you want to explore with the cap-coil on the bench.  Am I close?

If you hit the cap-coil with impulses close or on its self-resonant frequency you can expect to see the sine wave oscillations taking place in the coil.

But if your pulsing is very slow, say 1 kHz, then the coil will not even really respond.  Again, coils resist changes in current flow.  If you pulse it with a sharp, short pulse of voltage, it won't react, it won't "budge."  It will act like an open-circuit.

Now you can run tests like these and you might find a cap-coil and a regular coil respond slightly differently.  So the questions are can you explain why and is the difference significant or noteworthy or advantageous in any way?

MileHigh


 Ok lets get rid of some things you are getting confused about. Impulses are at the point source. They travel away at better then light speed because most space is not matter dense. In matter there is still the medium just in a finer density but still capable of conducting the potential like it's lower density on the outside of matter. Longitudinal energy can only be used with very high potentials and sudden releases of those very high potentials. If we use matter to form a pathway both within matter and outside of matter the same force is at both those places. Now just think what happens when you try to squeeze a hose that is running a good stream of water. It's pressure goes up and becomes more forceful when freed. Now think about what or how longitudinal energy works. With 1 wire we can convey a swinging pressure wave through matter. In one direction or the other. In the case of that description we should use a Avramenko plug as the converter to DC. But in my description this will be a constant impulse or longitudinal wave running in the coil in one direction only. The faster the pulses the more power this thing will have and yes even beyond the resonant mode. This is due to the excitation field that longitudinal waves produce.
 We have all seen the exciter coils exciting huge fields of space. We have all experimented with these fields and many have reported their findings. We must now start experimenting with controlling these fields. Putting them into such relationships that we get an advantage for the energy we have to supply. This process is based off of Tesla's charged particle gun. Material that can be charged without touching the charger is a fundamental process. Induction is the whole reason Tesla could do the AC motor. Induction is not intrinsic to the magnetic phenomena. The electric field is responsible for induction. Any single or multi path transformer will show you that.
 So, longitudinal energy works like water flowing through a pipe. It's motion is dictated by pressure and the abruptness of the application of that pressure. The flatter the face of the longitudinal energy the stronger the bang you will get when it gets to it's destination. A 1 directional flow is way more powerful because multiple waves hit in succession.
 Now think about this energy flowing in the bifilar coil. The self induction is all but removed at the resonant frequency which means that it does not react from false currents<- reverse currents. This should allow the impulse waves to travel without resistance but from the actual resistance of the wire itself. Like I said parallel coils should take care of the real resistance. Not multi stranded wire. The wire should be solid core or better yet pipe like. The latter suggestion is planned and you guessed it, it will be oil filled.


 Now lets look at the design of a single coil of the bifilar design. It should start from the outter rings towards the inner and this is why. What happens to anything that spins and you shorten the connector to the item spinning? Does it not get faster? Does its force change when you try to stop either suddenly?


 My ideal understanding of this force is to imagine the face of the water going down the pipe. It has a surface and from that surface radiates the electric field. Even from the inside of matter like the pipe. This is induction working to our advantage. As the impulses travel through the piping they will radiate an electric field at each face of the impulse waves. Now apply this to a many turn coil getting smaller and smaller as it turns down to the center? Would the speed of transition of these waves increase in speed the further you get towards the center? Would these waves of electric field boost the impulses just entering the coils? Now add the other coil and make it so the impulses exiting the first coil now go through another coil along the first coil? What effect do you think this would have on both coils? All flowing towards the center and both speeding up and gaining in voltage from this increase in speed and radiative effects as well get stronger towards the central exit....


 It's funny that the Tesla Turbine actually uses the very same concept. Hmmm very funny indeed.

 Whats this.. Done with my post and you write more? WTF you think you are me or something? Rofl...

 Yeah this thing will need better then average wiring. I'll use appropriate gauge when needed.. A real experiment is not with alligator clips.. I don't like em. Never had good results with them because they have a higher resistance. I usually use a sniffer coil also when hooking coils to the scope. Usually  single wind is enough. I have to test a big coil. There is supposed to be a relationship with the length of a single strand in these designs. The frequency of impulses will be a determining factor to this length as well. There is something I didn't contemplate yet and that is the wave propagation in the bifilar coil.

MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #484 on: July 25, 2013, 01:51:23 AM »
That's quiet something that you said, the gulf is wide.  I looked at some of the comments on that guy's clips, and people are saying that he is fantastic.  He really is, I can feel it.  He does nice white-board style talks using paper and a marker.  Did you glance through his set of 200+ clips to see how he covers a lot of ground?  Everything he teaches in those clips is covered across a few university physics and electronics courses.  You really should look at all of his clips.  He is the real thing, and his clips can teach you about real electronics.

You are very "far out" Jbignes5, reading your prose was startling and in a way unsettling.  I don't know what else to say.  I hope your health permits you to do your bench work and you have some fun doing that.

MileHigh

jbignes5

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #485 on: July 26, 2013, 10:20:35 PM »





 I highly doubt you are generally interested in my well being at all. Not interested at all.


 In fact, most of us guys who do, get crap from both ends of the spectrum. One being from the "learned ones" Isn't that what you call yourself and others. The guru's going along and imparting their wisdom to guys who couldn't care less. We are here to think outside of your box and yes that can take you to the edge of perception.


 I mention this because of the Eric Dollard saga now in play. Aaron is not innocent of any of the charges. In fact he admits that he is doing the exact same thing these other guys like TechZombie was or is doing. Both have manipulated poor Eric into a very bad situation and the only loosers are Eric and US. Eric was dragged into the dirt yet again by the same faction. For years Aaron let Dollard flounder and waste away in the desert from the last attack on him. Now Aaron is sitting behind Eric and his addiction and goading him on while that addiction is raging in Eric. This is a travesty and a gross miss use of the dollars donated to get the man standing again. Both sides are involved and Eric is in the middle drinking because he swore he wouldn't let this happen again, yet here he is again.



 Aarons only intention is to hook into Dollard, just like he has done with everything he has touched. He hooks on and takes it for a ride as long as it lasts. That is what they teach you in saleman classes. Nothing original has come from Aarons books or anything for that matter. I'm not going to go into detail about my own experiences with Aaron. All I can say is that when the truth stares him in the face he hits the delete key to get rid of the embarrassment of admitting he was wrong. In fact routinely Aaron will even ban the "Disturber" as he puts it. When you bring up the public and open source that these forums must operate under you get met with censorship and a blatant statement that yes the public can look at it but it is the sole possession of his company and can do what he pleases no matter how wrong his actions are.


 This is a message to Eric Dollard. "GET OUT! before everything is stripped of you. Run and glom as much as you can. Build your own way and release this stuff in the open world. Do not go down without a fight and do not let them defeat you."


 It will be awhile before I get back to this subject. I am taking a break and focussing on my own life. To get myself back into shape and not go down without a fight. My experimenting will of course continue but I think I need a well deserved break from this whole mess.

SeaMonkey

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #486 on: July 27, 2013, 08:12:16 PM »
jbignes5,

Regarding the Dollard fiasco which you've referred
to;  I suspect you're right about that.  It should be
very interesting to see how the "new management"
for Dollard progresses and what may come to pass.


One can only hope that there will be a positive
outcome but the odds seem stacked in the opposite
direction.  Both Dollard and his "new management"
have demonstrated that they are deeply troubled.




jbignes5

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #487 on: July 31, 2013, 02:43:28 PM »


 Deeply troubled yes but it does not invalidate the work already done.


 Just researching more and there is a guy doing experiments like the one I have been talking about using the bifilar coil. Not exactly my experiments but along the lines of Tesla.


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lF5wsLThbo&list=UUVesA155Der2tRd5vpyYdJw


 This is just one of many experiments done by this guy. Give his video list a good look and you'll see the key component is the bifilar coil.

MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #488 on: July 31, 2013, 07:19:11 PM »
Igor Moroz, a.k.a. Mopozco, is a nice guy that likes building pulse motors.  He does it for fun and doesn't make any claims or serious input/output measurements.  I once commented to him that he was incorrectly stating that his discharging coil was going back to recharge the source battery and he conceded that point.  I have looked at lots of his clips and there really isn't anything special there.

jbignes5

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #489 on: August 01, 2013, 05:46:16 PM »
Igor Moroz, a.k.a. Mopozco, is a nice guy that likes building pulse motors.  He does it for fun and doesn't make any claims or serious input/output measurements.  I once commented to him that he was incorrectly stating that his discharging coil was going back to recharge the source battery and he conceded that point.  I have looked at lots of his clips and there really isn't anything special there.


 So one wire longitudinal energy is nothing special to you? How about the lights being under water or the fact that he reaches right in and grabs the whole lighting device and brings it out of the water? This is nothing special to you? Obviously you couldn't see whats so special about anything. The mere fact that matter stays matter for eons isn't anything special as well. The only thing that I see that isn't anything special is your blindness to any of these facts in fact you suffer from the mind virus Eric talks about.
 Watching the videos I posted that the Tesla society hosted and featured Eric is a very clear indication that blindness is a common feature among your kind. Start educating yourself to this method or you will never see anything special. Watch Erics videos and see how he walks you through the entirety of his revelations. Then actually do the experiments that he has done. Then tell me nothing special comes from these Teslian devices.

MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #490 on: August 02, 2013, 12:11:04 AM »
Jbignes5:

I am going to quote Mark E. from a PESN comment on the subject of Dollard:

Quote
The best way that I know of to advance a new idea is to set-up an experiment where the observed behavior cannot be explained by existing theory, but can be explained by the new idea.  The new idea may still not be correct, as it may run into problems explaining other behaviors that existing theory handles, but at least one discrepancy gets attention. For Eric Dollard and those who support him, I would pick an experiment that defies existing theory that his ideas handle much better.  The flip-side is that if such an experiment cannot be identified, or doesn't show the alleged difference, then one should seriously question whether the ideas have merit.

You can't just look at a setup and say, "That's longitudinal energy in action."  You would have to prove it and that means you need a fancy lab set up with all sorts of RF measuring instruments and you would have to know what you are doing.  Light bulbs under water is a parlor trick I have seen many times.  Water is an insulator and the electricity will take the path of least resistance which is through the light bulb element.  It's like a magic show taking advantage of the audience's preconceptions and using a bit of misdirection.  Can you see clearly?  Have a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPfTqrmnQuw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3iPrBrGSJM

If you can point me to an experiment that shows something special, I'll have a look.

MileHigh

MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #491 on: August 02, 2013, 12:32:36 AM »
This guy is so good.  This is about being trapped in the bubble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGEKnHdKJVc

Who's in the bubble and who's standing outside?

Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #492 on: August 02, 2013, 12:33:44 AM »

 Deeply troubled yes but it does not invalidate the work already done.


 Just researching more and there is a guy doing experiments like the one I have been talking about using the bifilar coil. Not exactly my experiments but along the lines of Tesla.


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lF5wsLThbo&list=UUVesA155Der2tRd5vpyYdJw


 This is just one of many experiments done by this guy. Give his video list a good look and you'll see the key component is the bifilar coil.

Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #493 on: August 02, 2013, 12:44:02 AM »
I Quoted in my last post without my content. ::)

Hey Bigs

Putting the light socket in the water may not have any affect at all if it is distilled. ;) Also if he has rubber shoes on he should not get shocked. If he is bare footed, maybe if the light bulb wasnt there, sec open ended, he should feel something, depending on which end of the sec he is holding, being the water may not be conductive, and where he is standing in reference to either ground.

I see Mopo has the output of the secondary using the 'ground' as a connection to the load. Is there an advantage to this? Like is there a difference between using the 'earth' vs a wire for that connection?

Mags

MileHigh

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Re: Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".
« Reply #494 on: August 02, 2013, 12:47:53 AM »
In that clip there is that strong ground connection between the pipe in the house and the anchor bolt in the garage.  So there are your two wires and your current loop.  The transformer ups the voltage to give things a better push.  You can see in his schematic that he is using a series bifilar coil.  In this case it's doing nothing, this is just a step-up transformer based on turns ratio.

As far as the water goes minuscule current flows through it, because it's in parallel with the filament of the light bulb.