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Author Topic: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles  (Read 73021 times)

Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles
« Reply #75 on: September 11, 2013, 08:15:35 AM »

All you need is C core and  E-I core of similar size and then combine those using three coils as Thane has shown us. Coils should be high inductance to reduce idle current. If ferrite is used then you can use high frequency, but this I haven't tested. I have one E-I core but I think it is partially cut from the middle so it does not work. Core is glued so cannot see it but I trashed one that was similar and there was a cut preventing its use as a closed loop core which is essential in BiTT, damnation. I have played only using iron cores, someday would like to do tests using permeability difference between cores and high frequency.


Problem is that I like my day job and to change that into winding copper wire in circles does not sound fun at all, or to start a factory, hire people and so on. Boring management stuff.


I think Thane has things well going on behind the scenes, this is why I asked. To get a working OU device is no big deal, but to get it into market needs a quantum leap because opposition forces are so strong. Obama's 200 X-illion $ dollars to look for new energy sources is just a show off. They will pay for those people to look for things, not to actually find them. So it will be up to us free time hobbyists to crack this so that anyone can build a working device. This is why I like BiTT because it is so damn easy to build. I trashed few small trafos and one bigger one and then combined those. Used coils I got from trashed trafos so no coil winding, from zero to working device under 15 minutes lol.

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Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles
« Reply #76 on: September 11, 2013, 08:19:26 AM »

Seems I cannot edit my posts.

About the magnet test, magnets on the stator were bigger than the magnets on the rotor, in case this make a difference.

Offline tinman

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Re: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles
« Reply #77 on: September 11, 2013, 09:11:10 AM »
All you need is C core and  E-I core of similar size and then combine those using three coils as Thane has shown us. Coils should be high inductance to reduce idle current. If ferrite is used then you can use high frequency, but this I haven't tested. I have one E-I core but I think it is partially cut from the middle so it does not work. Core is glued so cannot see it but I trashed one that was similar and there was a cut preventing its use as a closed loop core which is essential in BiTT, damnation. I have played only using iron cores, someday would like to do tests using permeability difference between cores and high frequency.


Problem is that I like my day job and to change that into winding copper wire in circles does not sound fun at all, or to start a factory, hire people and so on. Boring management stuff.


I think Thane has things well going on behind the scenes, this is why I asked. To get a working OU device is no big deal, but to get it into market needs a quantum leap because opposition forces are so strong. Obama's 200 X-illion $ dollars to look for new energy sources is just a show off. They will pay for those people to look for things, not to actually find them. So it will be up to us free time hobbyists to crack this so that anyone can build a working device. This is why I like BiTT because it is so damn easy to build. I trashed few small trafos and one bigger one and then combined those. Used coils I got from trashed trafos so no coil winding, from zero to working device under 15 minutes lol.
Do you have a link to a video of a replication of the OU thane BiTT? or dose Thane have the only one?
I  have seen many attempts,but not one OU device.

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Re: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles
« Reply #77 on: September 11, 2013, 09:11:10 AM »
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Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles
« Reply #78 on: September 11, 2013, 11:02:03 AM »

No video available, but if you have some trafos lying around you can try to build it. I used primaries from christmas light trafos (rated 20 watts or so), lots of fine wire. My opinion is that replications have failed because coils were not strong enough. When power is turned on and there is no load, then there shouldn't be any current flowing in the primary. You cannot expect to see any OU effect when using grid frequency and just a few hundred turns like people seem to do. It must be high impedance coil.


I had actually four similar coils in the same core so I could compare BiTT against normal trafo mode. I put two coils in the middle of E-I and other two disconnected. Result was as expected, normal trafo operation, out power less than input. Next I used just one coil from the middle and two outer coils, BiTT mode. Result was as common sense would expect, OU because there is alternate path and back-EMF is used for amplifying effect. Amount was directly related to the size of the alternate path (C core). Output coils can be connected in parallel, series (polarities must be correct) or the other one just shorted. Shorted secondary gave slightly better result.


But enough about BiTT, it works, this thread was about regenerative acceleration. See the original BiTT thread for more info, page 17 onwards.

Offline Gestalt

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Re: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles
« Reply #79 on: September 11, 2013, 07:51:11 PM »
Gestalt, I could think of some interesting experiments to do if I had that setup for sure.

Have you tried tuning a low resistance gen coil to resonance using a capacitor and use that for  third comparison test ? That works in much the same way.
A coil of say a few hundred or more turns and fairly low resistance (you may even have one on hand) then using the inductance measured select a capacitor
to give resonance at the 860 Hz or so of the generator excitement.


eg. Say you have a 15 mH coil you could place a 2.2 uF cap across the coil to tune it to resonance at 876 Hz. Then do the test with that. Doing similar but using lower harmonic frequencies of excitement shows me a incredible acceleration under short and as I said it comes on at a lower harmonic for me then it can lock into the accelerated speed and the load can be removed with still increasing acceleration. I would like to try tuning a coil to full resonance but I have not used coils with enough inductance so that I don't need over 10 uF to make it happen. I'm curious as to what will happen when tuned to full resonance. Would the acceleration take it past resonant frequency or would it stop at just under the resonant frequency, if you know what I'm getting at.

Thanks for the video and taking he time to make such a good presentation. Salute !

Oh and can you get a scope shot of the bifilar coil shorted please. That would be interesting, same with the coil and cap across it, not sure it would be possible to scope with the coil open but if it is that would be good to see the scope as the bifilar is shorted.


Yes, I have done a tuned full resonance with a cap and the results are terrible. Pin goes through the roof and the machine makes a terrible noise, and rpm plummets. It basically acts like a massive continuous load.

And you can't scope a short. At least not voltage. Current yes but then you don't have a reference so it becomes a meaningless measurment.

Gestalt, you have a nice setup there. But shouldn't the coil be further away from core end ? I recall this has effect on how it behaves, causes 'delay of action'.What happens if you turn the coils sideways ? Then the pole that is formed in the core would point away from the magnets, no sticky spots.I want to suggest a simple experiment. Replace coils with same kind of magnets that you have in the rotor. Face them so that they always repel, so when turned it sticks and it is hard to move the rotor. in place of coil      rotor    in place of coil    magnet N-S          S-N      N-S magnetNow move it faster and faster, you will notice that at certain speed it does not stick anymore but starts to flow as if there is no magnets at all. What does this mean, is this anything useful ?

I have ran tests with the core/coil further away from the disc. In my experiments it has no beneficial effect, it merely decreases Pout and Pin in step.
I have not tried the coil sideways.

At high speeds momentum compensates for sticking or "cogging" giving the appearance of a beneficial effect due to smooth rotation. The counter-torque is still there however and you have to pay for it on Pin, as can be seen by trying different materials (metglas vs ferrite vs iron vs air) and measuring Pin at a high speed. Iron coggs the most, then metglas then ferrite the least and obviously air does not.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 05:19:03 AM by Gestalt »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles
« Reply #79 on: September 11, 2013, 07:51:11 PM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles
« Reply #80 on: September 11, 2013, 07:58:15 PM »

Yes, I have done a tuned full resonance with a cap and the results are terrible. Pin goes through the roof and the machine makes a terrible noise, and rpm plummets. It basically acts like a massive continuous load.

Yes exactly, but when heavily loaded or shorted does it speed up ? The full resonance would be the absolute extreme of the effect. Maximum drag with no real load.  :)

Quote
And you can't scope a short. At least not voltage. Current yes but then you don't have a reference so it becomes a meaningless measurment.

I only meant to show the scope shot so when you apply the load or short so the waveform can be seen to change, distort or flatten. Anything can be scoped I wasn't talking of any measurement just a visual of the waveform.

Cheers



Offline Ein~+ein

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Re: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles
« Reply #81 on: September 11, 2013, 10:36:22 PM »
I think Thane has things well going on behind the scenes, this is why I asked. To get a working OU device is no big deal...

Then how come there's still unclaimed prize money? 

Don't give me the circular conspiracy reasoning!  What Thane has going on behind the scenes is simply a failure to produce OU.  He'd be a household name otherwise.  Look at all those who've attempted and failed to reproduce what he claims he has and he's only one claimant in a world of FE scams.  Like I said, globally, it's a multi-million dollar a year business built on ignorance, deception and greed.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles
« Reply #81 on: September 11, 2013, 10:36:22 PM »
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Offline Newton II

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« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 08:56:24 AM by Newton II »

Offline Ein~+ein

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Re: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles
« Reply #83 on: October 07, 2013, 07:41:22 PM »
http://www.pureenergyblog.com/2013/06/09/1285/8502328_thane-heins-allows-open-license-of-his-regenerative-acceleration-regenx-technology/

http://www.slideshare.net/ThaneCHeins/pdi-regenerative-acceleration-generator-regenx-2013-patent-disclosure


I don't know whether the above links  are already posted some where in this forum.

You need to know how to read this.  They're just meant as a tease to lure more investment money his way.  If you've listened to Thane Heins' claims, you'd realize that if true, PDI stock would be the talk of Wall St as the implications of such tech would revolutionize far more than the auto sector as he himself acknowledges.   The fact no one listens anymore should tell you something about the validity of his claims.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles
« Reply #83 on: October 07, 2013, 07:41:22 PM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles
« Reply #84 on: February 09, 2014, 07:36:50 PM »
I think Thanes BiTT (bi-Toroid) works on a similar principal to the acceleration under load effect.

There would be a large "no load input" and the application of the "Tiny" load makes the system more efficient.

He never measures the entire power used from the wall. With the BiTT, there seems to be another transformer to feed the BiTT, the input power should be measured into that transformer.

Also I have never seen anything more than a couple of Watts at most from one of the BiTT setups. Lets see a replication by another party or another demonstration by Thane himself using a BiTT to power a 100 Watt incandescent globe. If one can't do that and show some OU it won't change squat.

The tiny output power is most likely dwarfed by the total input power from the wall to the setup on the bench, including the transformer feeding the BiTT.

Here's a challenge, no one else promote Thanes stuff until they can replicate and show the OU he claims, or any OU from the BiTT or any other device he has.

If he hasn't lost his investors yet then they deserve to lose their money. School of hard knocks.

Cheers

Offline JulienVictor

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Re: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles
« Reply #85 on: February 20, 2014, 09:57:43 PM »
Dear

I would like to build a larger BITT, means one that support 100 VA. Do you have an idea if I could use steelwire for lower frequencies (50Hz)?
I guess th efficiency would be poor, but I would compare it to a conventenial design made with same wire.

Regards

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles
« Reply #85 on: February 20, 2014, 09:57:43 PM »
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Offline Real Boots

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Re: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles
« Reply #86 on: April 11, 2014, 02:34:26 PM »
Here is the latest bitt I constructed, used ferrite to elim eddy losses and drove it with only 50vac to keep below saturation and keep input current wave pure sine.  Used borrowed 2ch scope with phase and power calculated to take data and found only lossy transfo action.  Was very disappointed as I had seen what appeared to be current drop on primary when load applied to sec when using cheap meter across shunt on input of previous devices that turned out to be false when measured with scope.  Distortion a in sign wave fool these dvms people.  Tried to make sec paths much larger than primary path for best results, not convinced on this one people. 
-boots

Offline dieter

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Re: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles
« Reply #87 on: April 12, 2014, 09:19:14 AM »
I've just seen this. That's really disapointing. Do you have a shot of the waveform?




You said you made shure to stay under saturation, but didn't Heins say the primary core needs to be close to saturation? (to force the back mmf to the outer core).
A further test may be to use a cap in series with the primary, as I already stated elsewhere, i achieved  some interesting results that way. Just find the right capacitance that will let everything trough, but bring the current +90° out of phase.


Regards


Offline Real Boots

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Re: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles
« Reply #88 on: April 12, 2014, 06:22:40 PM »
Dieter;
At 50vac 60 hz both the current and voltage into the primary were nice clean sign waves.  From what I have read on this device (darn near everything I could find), this test should have shown the Heins effect.  I also tried it with 120vac 60hz but was energy destroyer due to saturation that could be seen in the current waveform of the primary as distortions.  These distortions are what was tricking my digital meter in previous tests.  I did take notes and readings on all the tests but it is in notebook hand written at the moment.  All tests showed under unity.  The rod for core under primary core is .5" ferrite and the primary coil is a wire spool full of 30awg wire.  To me this calls into doubt thane's claims as I should have seen some sign of the effect.  I even tried it at different frequencies on freq generator and could not find any sweet spots showing Heins effect.  Primary current was between 9 to 12 ma at 49vac input from what I recall, 12 being loaded, 9 unloaded.  Phase angle shift towards resistive powerfactor when load applied was seen as well.  I didn't grab any pics of scope screen however as it was sinus at 50vac.  Very disappointed with this one after so many iterations and waits on large ferrite toroids from china.  I even am still waiting on some parts to arrive still but seems kinda pointless now. 
This was not a waste of time however, shows there is something missing from the models for "flux" in my openeion or else some heins effect would have shown.  On to my gabriel/tesla shield transfo experiment it is!

Offline dieter

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Re: PDi Regenerative Acceleration and BiTT Principles
« Reply #89 on: April 12, 2014, 07:05:50 PM »
Boots,


so the outer core was a wire spool? I have to say this chanches things significantly! I also made a BiTT with iron wire toroids, the outer one massive, the inner one winded in a 8-winding mode. This device had the worst efficiency I could imagine. Using Ferrite in the primary and iron in the secondary is not promising, the oppisite would make more sense. The permeability of a iron wire spool and a ferrite core is significantly diffrent, maybe more than 10x, so there may be hope .   :D


Also, unlike many OU concepts, this one did not have NO EFFECT at all, but really altered the behaviour of inductive coupling fundamentally. Not shure if it's OU, but it is something.


.I have also seen vids of people, showing scopes , power factor clearly zero, then hit the load connection switch and the scope remained in that phase angle, only the tip of the voltage came down by maybe 10%. Didn't bookmark, but I've seen it on Youtube..


Well if the gabriel device is going to work (what if not BiTT tech is the principle in your view?), then you don't have to worry anyway, otherwise use the ferrite toroids and give it one more chance.


Probably think about metglas, two pounds ribbon is 33$ on ebay.


If there is free energy, then the lobbies will suppress it, by ruining the inventors. Especially when they use reactive power, which is for free, but needs a lot of investment to be provided by the power plant and grid.




Regards


 

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