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Author Topic: Reversing an assumption...  (Read 14004 times)

Offline iacob alex

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Reversing an assumption...
« on: March 10, 2013, 06:33:57 PM »


.....I have in mind , the equilibrium (balance point) ,of the Earth-Moon barycenter , at :


 www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGBANgbRkws


 This natural perpetuum mobile model ,as a starting simple image ( fulcrum,lever,two masses ) ,with a mobile barycenter ,is a well balanced leverage.


 The opposite  situation ,can be a continuous unbalanced leverage...this is the status we are looking for our topic.


  All the best ! / Alex

:

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Reversing an assumption...
« on: March 10, 2013, 06:33:57 PM »

Offline iacob alex

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Re: Reversing an assumption...
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2013, 07:51:33 AM »
  Hi Gianna !


Ok ! ... ,you say that  the Earth-Moon system can't   be a  perpetuum mobile explicit example.


Then , what is your starting image ,something to consider ?


   All the best ! / Alex

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Reversing an assumption...
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2013, 05:13:50 PM »
The result of this "Earth-Moon barycenter" are the tides.

The change in gravity because of the "moving barycenter" is almost too small to be measured, but the sum effect on the water in the oceans are the tides.

To harvest this "force" one can build a tidal power station (a dam closing off a bay) or wind turbine like propellers which stand in the water where the tidal currents flow very strongly. See http://www.alternative-energy-news.info/technology/hydro/tidal-power/ for more ideas.

An interesting effect are the springs and neaps when the Sun, Moon and Earth form a line. In this cases the "earth moon system" is drawn a little bit closer to the sun or moves a little bit away from the sun.

Just my comments to put the "Earth-Moon barycenter" into perspective.

Greetings, Conrad

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Re: Reversing an assumption...
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2013, 05:13:50 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: Reversing an assumption...
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2013, 05:35:45 PM »
Very old discussion about "real OU":

There are some power sources which are "endless" from a human point of view. E.g. the sun, the tides, the heat in the earth core, the winds and the constant change of the barometric pressure, just to name some.

In theory sun and earth will end, but we should not worry about that for another billion years. To harness these "endless energies" would be OU for practical reasons.

It is rather unlikely to find pure OU (which would be energy from nothing in contrast to conversion of an existing energy into a useful form).

We should concentrate on using the "endless energies provided by sun and earth". This is very realistic and many good ways of using these energies have been "invented" (solar panels, wind turbines, water turbines, geothermic power stations in Iceland and so on).

But we concentrate on oil, gas and coal. Why is that?

Greetings, Conrad
 

Offline iacob alex

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Re: Reversing an assumption...
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2013, 11:15:11 AM »
   Hi !
My intention was to expose a very short (from 0:30 to 0:38) sequence from an explanatory movie ,at :
 www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGBANgbRkws
This is related to a variable leverage , as a basic idea of a possible gravity motor.
Sometime ago , I submitted for the public domain (now... "archived")  a lot of designs regarding  this topic , at:
      www.geocities.ws/iacob_alex     (see "Some drafts")
   All the best ! / Alex
 
     
 
 

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Re: Reversing an assumption...
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2013, 11:15:11 AM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: Reversing an assumption...
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2013, 06:15:55 PM »
   Hi !
My intention was to expose a very short (from 0:30 to 0:38) sequence from an explanatory movie ,at :
 www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGBANgbRkws
This is related to a variable leverage , as a basic idea of a possible gravity motor.
Sometime ago , I submitted for the public domain (now... "archived")  a lot of designs regarding  this topic , at:
      www.geocities.ws/iacob_alex     (see "Some drafts")
   All the best ! / Alex

Well, did you build anything for a real trial run?

I do not see a connection between the attached picture from the video (from 0:30 to 0:38 sequence) and a variable leverage (e.g. your designs)?

To be influenced by a passing moon (like the tides), your apparatus must be enormous and would move very slowly (like the tides)?

I am not obsessed by the tides, but the tides are the only practical mechanism to harvest the moons influence on the gravity (on the surface of the earth).

The moon might also cause the liquid core of the earth to turn at a different speed than the crust (and such creating the magnetic field). But this is speculation and not proven.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline iacob alex

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Re: Reversing an assumption...
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2013, 08:34:12 PM »
             Hi Conrad !
For me , the starting image of a gravity motor (self running due to gravity "fall" of an unbalance) is the basic mechanics.
The basics mechanics starts with a lever ,let's say a see-saw ( full rotating 360*...so,not swinging just a little).
In your attached image , the fulcrum is the fixation ,the Earth is the "sleeping"(fixed) partner/"M" mass  and the Moon is the moving ("sliding to and fro") partner/ "m"mass , at the other end of the beam. (M~ 81 m).
Now,let's play this simple game ,with a single active partner ,so to move ("switch") the torque difference on the same side of the fulcrum:
-in the bottom position,the active partner must move up (to the fulcrum)
-in the top position,the active partner must move up again ( from the fulcrum).
For the bottom position we have a "self" solution : the simple hinged arm (see so many designs of the Middle Ages).
For the top position...we can imagine a lot of simple methods of solving this (only one !) to get a "self",also.
To be short : in my opinion , we need to solve a single "critical point".
For me ,the main aim is the " know how" in the limits of the simple child-like game , accessible for everyone.
    All the best ! / Alex
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Reversing an assumption...
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2013, 08:34:12 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: Reversing an assumption...
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2013, 10:25:03 PM »
To be interested I need a bit more than words.

How about a device, even if it does not work?

Greetings, Conrad

Offline iacob alex

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Re: Reversing an assumption...
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2013, 09:13:18 AM »
   Hi Conrad !   
Ok ! I understand :"to be interested" , you need something more than words...but,you see ...then "the game is over".So,to preserve the "charm and suspence" of this secular quiz contest...I think it's better to  remain "in the middle".
About the "device" ,to be expressive ,"das ist eine kindergarten spiele"...you need ,nothing more   than  : fulcrum,beam,two masses (fixed"M",oscillating"m") + imagination to make it self moving.
Take a look at : www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6G5aC9BtSc
   All the best ! / Alex
 
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 05:30:23 PM by iacob alex »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Reversing an assumption...
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2013, 09:13:18 AM »
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Offline circle

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Re: Reversing an assumption...
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2013, 09:30:36 AM »
   Hi Conrad !   
Ok ! I understand :"to be interested" , you need something more than words...but,you see ...then "the game is over".So,to preserve the "charm and suspence" of this secular quiz contest...I think it's better to  remain "in the middle".
About the "device" :"das ist eine kindergarten spiele"...nothing more : fulcrum,beam,two masses (fixed"M",oscillating"m") +our imagination to make it self moving.
   All the best ! / Alex

what good is it to dismiss one errant assumption only to substitute with equally faulty replacements?
 
really?
ONE fulcrum?
ONE beam?
 
thanks to johann bessler,   ..we already know there are two weights per set...

Offline DreamThinkBuild

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Re: Reversing an assumption...
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2013, 04:38:32 PM »
Hi Conrad,

The gravity motor that I see with the most potential is the Mann Gravity Mover.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Mann_Gravity_Mover

The two pictures at the top of the article show a progression from wooden frame to brick. This was for a government agency in India, I'm pretty sure if the wooden structure didn't work they wouldn't have built a full blown brick version of it in their basement. The other feature from the picture is what appears to be skid marks from the tire on the wooden plywood. Looks like a lot of force was generated.

I've been doing small models of it, hope to test on it more as the weather gets warmer. The snow is just starting to recede here.

These are just my observations from my model and reading through the patents I could be wrong or missing a design piece:

The shaft looks like a dumb-bell with two large bearings mounted to the ends these ride in tapered bearings or cups as he terms them.

The top half of the central shaft forms the pivot.

The bottom half forms the work part of the leverage arm.

The lever arm is the arm that goes to the wheel this creates a sliding effect which is constrained by the top as pivot arm.

The wheel keeps the bottom from pushing out the bottom and adds a rotational effect/mass to both the top and the bottom of the shaft to create a corkscrew effect for the ball bearings, falling down but being pushed up from the weights due to the tapered curve. (he mentions a couple times of falling down into the cup on his old site)

The weights that are off the side of the leverage arm add an upward torque/twist to the end of the lever, pushing up while twisting down into the taper.

Power is taken off the top bearing where a rod is welded on and goes into a pulley with a hole.

This whole shaft must be free to twist and slide in the tapers, that is the challenging part you can't constrain it's axis. The wheel maintains it at certain level though so vibration doesn't become an issue.

From my tests the downward force has to be reduced by finding the proper curve so it's easier to ride along the curve than into it. This can also be adjusted by the angle of the lever arm and distance of weight. Moving weights toward the shaft increase the speed at reduced torque, putting the weights farther out increases torque but reduces speed. My crude tests have not shown self running but do show a lot of force being generated at the end of the shaft.

Got to go to work, I'll draw some pictures of the concept later.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Reversing an assumption...
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2013, 04:38:32 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: Reversing an assumption...
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2013, 05:25:26 PM »
@DreamThinkBuild: I did a little search in the net and found this thread

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2768&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

which contains useful information about this Mann Gravity Wheel. It takes some time to wade through the 4 pages with many posts.

In this thread one finds a patent

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=JP&NR=10313579A&KC=A&FT=D&date=19981124&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP

which has interesting drawings (reading the Japanese text might be a challenge for most). The Japanese patent was filed in 1998 and one never heard or saw anything based on it.

I also attach a drawing found in this thread.

It looks interesting but seems to be difficult to build. One needs a very well equipped and rather large workshop to build that. Small will not do it.

I doubt that the world ever saw a functioning Mann Wheel.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Reversing an assumption...
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2013, 06:27:28 PM »
One could build a Mann Wheel without "power output" (see the drawing, based on the Japanese patent). Once it turns (what I doubt), one adds the more complicated power output.

Remark: the little bars are magnets (completely useless).

Greetings, Conrad

Offline DreamThinkBuild

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Re: Reversing an assumption...
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2013, 04:36:44 PM »
Hi Conrad,

Thanks for the links and that Japanese patent, haven't seen that one yet. If the heavy weight is balanced right at the point of contact where the track meets the ground it will not take much to push one side down to cause the heavy ball to move forward. I've tried something similar but might need a small high torque motor to create a low point always in front of the ball to keep it rolling.

I attached a picture of how I see the Mann Gravity Mover working. It's like a sliding lever, spinning top, pushed and rotated along the curve of the bowl. :) There is an oscillation that seems to be formed at the end the lever arm. It will push the bottom bearing up the side of the wall but it reaches a point where the angle is too steep aided with the rotation of the wheel and weight of main shaft it will fall back down only to be pushed up again. It's very quick oscillation of rise and fall without the wheel it is violent vibration. I'm still unsure of the cup structure, he's says tapered bearings but mentions cup.

Offline iacob alex

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Re: Reversing an assumption...
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2013, 08:13:49 PM »
 
.....sorry,as I see the things , becomes "reversing" a subject treated .
This topic is a simple proposal to reverse the balance into unbalance , of a "working leverage"(see Earth-Moon natural model in the first message)....nothing more.
Perpetuum mobile (Lat.)= continuous motion , is not "infinite"motion as some people try to play Gods...again sorry
Infinite motion is one thing , the motion of the visible bodies is another thing..
So,if we try to "copy" a natural model...we play a normal,human game.
    All the best ! / Alex

 

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