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Author Topic: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax  (Read 16565 times)

Offline Hel

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Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« on: February 17, 2013, 01:59:44 PM »
I hope this is the proper section to point out this matter...
Recently I stumbled across this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHbQXnXK6Xc
(just skip the first part where he shows the magnetically biased transformer).

In short, the author is demonstrating an anomaly in the so called "perpetual motion holder" effect.
By using a transformer (presumeably laminated iron) double-U core, the effect is there.
By using a "tape wound" double-U core, the pieces don't stay stuck after running the magnetizing current.
But, after placing a shorted winding to the core pieces, they stay stuck as in the first example.
The astonishing thing is that, when he opens the short, the two pieces fall apart.
Well I fear he's fooling us. Please confirm and/or discuss the thing objectively.
I think this it's definitely IMPOSSIBLE, since that would imply a DC current permanently flowing
in the shorted winding, as it would be a superconductor, which breaks up when opened.

I could not try to replicate the effect because I have no such "tape wound" cores.
I made experiments with other materials not showing the PMH effect (i.e a ferrite core from a
flyback) and a similar shorted coil, but the pieces won't stay stuck anyway.

Thanks for your attention.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline kEhYo77

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Re: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2013, 03:45:32 PM »
Hi.

I see that you have already decided what is real and possible.
I just checked it with two U shaped, big ferrite cores and the effect is there!
Our current understanding of electromagnetism is not yet complete...

We are living in a vast and dense sea of fluctuating energy fields. There is no 'close system' in reality, so the math and 'our laws of physics' apply only up to a certain level of complexity, as they are based on certain preconceived model of reality which is very basic and unfortunately flawed in many areas such as gravity, inner workings of the atom and macro scale cosmology. Try to search some info on electric Sun theory and see if it clicks ;)

Now, the way I understand this phenomenon goes like this:

Electric and magnetic field in this configuration are closely coupled and close-looped, they are more or less contained.
If any of them is exposed to external influence that tries to change it there is a resistance to that change, as it is commonly understood by the 'laws'.
Magnetic field in that video example is very strong, much stronger than Earth's magnetic field. So if we have a dense 'conductuctor' for magnetic flux - like a solid core - the remanence is very strong for that type of core. Why is it so strong then?
To me it looks like that there are lots of 'tiny' closed circuit path for current to flow inside such cores. You could say that superconductivity exists around magnetic domains in ferromagnetic conductors.
But to me it is more like an alignment of electric dipoles of iron molecules/free electrons where somehow it is easy to close the loop for the electrical potential, where again, this circular current is being somewhat 'shielded' from the external EM fields by surrounding, dense magnetic flux.
Now, the shorted winding illustrates this theory nicely, although in this configuration the wire is not shielded from all around that it is why it breaks loose after a while.
If my understanding is sound, it would be possible for a low remanence core, such as ferrite to retain induced magnetic flux for a long period of time as in Ed's Leedskalnin' PMH, provided a closed loop conductor INSIDE the core...

Be open minded, think, and do not follow blindly any religion like contemporary science ;)

kEhYo

Offline Hel

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Re: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2013, 04:52:21 PM »
Thank you for reply, but I'm still reluctant (pun not intended ;) as before...

Premise: sorry, almost nobody knows me on this forum... I mostly read, and practice
experiments. So, please no need to suggest me being open minded since I'm actually more
than you think :) I just don't believe ghosts until I see them. I actually WOULD LIKE that
such an effect was for real. I do recognize science is incomplete and knowledge obfuscated
by math formalisms, that we actually know few or nothing of our universe laws, etc. etc.
So we mainly agree here.

But, until a counter proof, followed by scientific explanation and repeatability of this effect,
I can't believe it. I stress again that, in order for a similar behavior to be real, a constant DC
current should be able to circulate in the secondary coil, for at least some seconds before
extinguishing itself by ohmic losses - and such a thing I think is impossible at room temperature.

Now here's my update about replicating, and my thoughts.
Premised that unfortunately I have not such tape wound cores (hmmm... any hint where I could
find them without searching for a supplier ? I usually don't see them inside common dismantled
appliances or other electronic garbages...)
I have conducted more tests with ferrite. Usually ferrite does not exhibit the PMH effect, in my
experience at least (contrarily to iron, for example). But I realized now that if you insist with the
magnetizing current (i.e not just spikes, but keep it for some time, or just you insist with spikes)
at the end the two cores end up slightly magnetized, and do attract. I wonder if the same thing
happens with those tape wound materials !
I'm telling that, because that initially fooled me in believing that I had replicated the
effect. As magnetizing coil I used one with many turns, so that I could keep it energized with
12V DC for some time without burning it or the power supply. As secondary coil I started with
one similar to that used in the video, and I perceived a slight increase in residual attraction
with it shorted. Following intuition, I tried with a secondary made of few turns of very thick
wire (very low ohmic resistance, so any induced current could last longer, in theory). Well,
in the latter case I seem to perceive a stronger residual attraction, I could even lift the
contraption with the lower U still attached. And unshorting the coil, I had it dropping.
But I checked better. I tried again, unshorting the coil... this time the pieces remained attached.
It was the residual magnetization I told above. It's tiny, so that any slight movement (as the
act of disconnecting the coil ends) causes the lower piece to fall. So far, this is my suspect,
what I just explained. But it's still to be proved.

I have now to try further with different cores, and also with a very low resistance ammeter
closing the secondary coil - in the case, it should indicate some more or less slowly decreasing
current (!) and I really doubt that it's possible at all. Just not to look skeptic  !

More comments are welcome, of course...
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2013, 04:52:21 PM »
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Offline TechStuf

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Re: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2013, 09:38:47 PM »



Quote
We are living in a vast and dense sea of fluctuating energy fields. There is no 'close system' in reality, so the math and 'our laws of physics' apply only up to a certain level of complexity, as they are based on certain preconceived model of reality which is very basic and unfortunately flawed in many areas such as gravity, inner workings of the atom and macro scale cosmology. Try to search some info on electric Sun theory and see if it clicks 




Right on!




Offline lexcity

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Re: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2013, 10:04:30 PM »
This phenomenon is called Wringing. Here is a wikipedia entry on it:

Wringing is the process of sliding two blocks together so that their faces lightly bond. Because of their ultraflat surfaces, when wrung, gauge blocks adhere to each other tightly. Properly wrung blocks may withstand a 75 lbf (330 N) pull.[4] While the exact mechanism that causes wringing is unknown,[4][5] it is believed to be a combination of:[3][4]

    Air pressure applies pressure between the blocks because the air is squeezed out of the joint.
    Surface tension from oil and water vapor that is present between the blocks.
    Molecular attraction occurs when two very flat surfaces are brought into contact. This force causes gauge blocks to adhere even without surface lubricants, and in a vacuum.

Here is another video of someone achieving this effect in a much simpler fashion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eWSAcMoxITw

This effect has been known of for a long time apparently. Read this page on peswiki.com about it: http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Leedskalnin_%22Perpetual_Motion_Holder%22_%28PMH%29_Bond_Effect

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2013, 10:04:30 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2013, 10:13:03 PM »
Hi Hel,

I can assure you that the tests shown in those videos are NOT a hoax.  (I know the person who did those tests several years ago.)
(here is the second part as the continuation of the tests:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJl0TO_aR6M if you have not seen it)
 
These tests have been a topic here:

http://www.overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/msg352901/#msg352901

http://www.overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/msg352903/#msg352903

http://www.overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/msg352907/#msg352907

I think the huge DC current pulse (must be well over 15-20 Amper or even higher, coming from a 12V battery)  rearranges the domains of the cores and depending on how good a core is (from remanence magnetism point of view)  the domains need a certain time to return to their original state.  I believe this RETURN movement what is sensed in the shorted coil as a 'continuous'  current (that is going one direction but its value may be fluctuating) what is interrupted  when you REMOVE the shorting wire from the coil, this interruption then causes a further flux collapse that helps domains much quickly return to their original state.
This is how I see this.  MAybe some other factors yet unknown to me also play a role.

rgds, Gyula

Offline FatBird

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Re: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2013, 01:31:30 AM »
I wish he would place a 12V Bulb across the coil of the Taped Core
to see if it STAYS LIGHTED.
 
What he is showing implies a CONTINUOUS CURRENT in that coil.
Is it possible he has an Overunity Device?  It sure looks like it.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHbQXnXK6Xc
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2013, 01:31:30 AM »
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Offline Hel

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Re: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2013, 03:08:59 PM »
Thanks to all for the links.

Wringing seems all another matter, having nothing to do with magnetism. I.e, the same thing when you put two
flat smooth glass pieces together, they stay stuck.

The experiment using the two steel blocks with the rail for the current carrying wire is nothing strange, it's
pretty the same as the PMH effect, just with a different geometry. I also see nothing strange about the fact
that no magnetic field is detectable outside once the blocks are stuck, since the magnetic field holding them
together is completely enclosed - just like inside a toroidal core, or a Leedskalnin's PMH with the keeper
attached [in general, I suspect the PMH effect has nothing or little to do with residual magnetism or hysteresis
loop of the material, since it's just about the domains remaining aligned in a closed loop. Still it's nonetheless
something few understood, since as I said some magnetic materials show the effect while others don't. But
this is not the matter now]

The fact of using a secondary coil which would apparently "keep" the magnetization in form of persisting
current is another matter. I of course don't want to mean that the author of that video is necessarily fooling
us, I may suspect that himself was fooled someway instead. It's about something which is worth investigating,
since you all realize the implications...

Since yesterday I went on experimenting but I could not replicate the effect. Ok, as I said I have no such
tape-wound cores. My experiments with ferrite cores still seem suggesting what I had explained, i.e some
residual magnetism (and/or veeeery slight PMH effect), after insisting with the magnetizing current, and
any tiny movement as the act of disconnecting the secondary causes the lower piece to fall apart.
I had a 0.01 Ohm shunt resistor closing the secondary with my scope across it to measure current.
No stable current, no remanence. Just the spikes of opposing polarities when turning the magnetizing
current on or off, as anybody would expect.

But, IF EVEN some remaining current was possible in the secondary, perhaps using tape-wound cores
or other special materials, it would require a very low secondary resistance: i.e any load put there, as
a light bulb, would just cause this current to dissipate faster, increasing the resistance.

In addition we should consider the directions of the induced current.
Assume we use a clockwise magnetizing current in the primary to induce a flux with some direction
inside the core. The induced current in the secondary will be counter-clockwise (-di/dt), and if
such a current could persist (like in a superconductor) it would sustain an opposed flux in the core
to the one we tried to impose. When we break the magnetizing current, then a clockwise current
would be induced in the secondary, this time sustaining (if it could persist) the original flux direction.
A bit puzzling...

Offline Hel

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Re: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2013, 05:34:44 PM »
...btw, Gyulasun, I think your explanation may be the most sensate. A very delicate interaction between
relaxing domains and the "feedback" from the closed coil. Definitely no stable or less stable DC.
A pity that the author seems not so interested by the effect he discovered.
Firstly, he should check furtherly the replicability (i.e if the act of opening the secondary coil is more
or less statistically related to the piece falling apart).
Then, he (or anybody else provided with similar tape wound cores) should check with a scope what
kind of current is circulating in the secondary coil (possibly using a very low resistance shunt as I did,
even lower)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2013, 05:34:44 PM »
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Offline elementSix

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Re: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2013, 10:35:06 PM »
There are a bunch of those experiments with flux lines, those aren't faked at all, in my opinion.  We where recently talking about those and a few others on the 5Kw TK forum. They are very interesting and a good source of information.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2013, 11:38:39 PM »
...btw, Gyulasun, I think your explanation may be the most sensate. A very delicate interaction between
relaxing domains and the "feedback" from the closed coil. Definitely no stable or less stable DC.
A pity that the author seems not so interested by the effect he discovered.
Firstly, he should check furtherly the replicability (i.e if the act of opening the secondary coil is more
or less statistically related to the piece falling apart).
Then, he (or anybody else provided with similar tape wound cores) should check with a scope what
kind of current is circulating in the secondary coil (possibly using a very low resistance shunt as I did,
even lower)

Hi Hel,

So you may abandon the possibility of a hoax?  I hope so and would like to add that the check you suggest above can only be performed by scope if you insert a wide bandwith low noise amplifier between the transformer's monitorod output and the scope's input. The reason I say this is that I think the fluctuating but definitely one way current (i.e. the magnetic domains going back to their original positions) can be so small that the mV or some mV sensitivity of a normal scope would not be enough. 
In an another thread member 'verpies' mentioned Barkhausen noise in connection with this phenomena and I tend to think that feeding an audio amplifier with the output signal of this transformer we would hear similar noise while the domains return to their earlier 'resting' position.

You also wrote:

....

But, IF EVEN some remaining current was possible in the secondary, perhaps using tape-wound cores
or other special materials, it would require a very low secondary resistance: i.e any load put there, as
a light bulb, would just cause this current to dissipate faster, increasing the resistance.

....

 I agree, to utilize the returning domains' 'energy' would be hard and considering the input power needed to influence the domains in the tape wound core may be higher than what the domains give back.

Thanks,  Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2013, 11:38:39 PM »
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Offline Hel

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Re: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2013, 01:52:51 PM »
Well, when I asked to possibly disproof (or even prove!) this video, that it COULD be a hoax,
it was for obvious reasons: any people watching freshly at such a demonstration is induced to
think at first at something against known science. I don't tell it's bad, of course, on the contrary
it would be too good to be true: apparently a room-temperature supercoducting effect or something
definitely related. Well, now after a bit of discussion and experimenting it looks definitely something
else, something more subtle. A pity that I have not such material to check better.

No free energy source here, of course, never thought of that. Just a scientific curiosity.

Yes I already knew about Barkhausen noise from Wikipedia, even if I never checked it. If it's
about something so subtle, then of course an amplifier as you described would be needed.
It would be interesting, at this point, to check the Barkhausen noise characteristics with and
without a shorted coil around the testing core: they surely can be affected.

Bye

Offline jadaro2600

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Re: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2014, 06:15:03 AM »
This was interesting, but what isn't shown is the duration which the secondary maintains the magnetic field of the core. I have a feeling that what is happening is that as the domains in this core rearrange themselves into a non uniform state, they are being interrupted by the secondary coil in the same manner a magnet descending down a copper tube is slowed by the opposing field it generates as it moves.

In this case, the domains of a ferrite or laminate core or closed loop, whichever the case may be, will revert to a non uniform state faster than plain steel core will. This is what they're designed to do since they're target is high frequencies. As those domains attempt to ( for a lack of better words ) return to a chaotic and field canceling arrangement, they move ( or in this case, their magnetic field changes ). In doing so, they are inducing currents around them and in the secondary coil. In this case, the secondary coil doesn't need much current flowing through it to oppose the reverting of the field from uniform to chaotic.

I don't believe this is a hoax, simply a matter of material properties. Although I think there could be a better way of testing the above with a different setup.

I would widen the secondary so that is there is play in two directions so that the core may pivot open ( like a hinge ); I would also round over the flat ends so that it could do this. I predict that in the original experiment, with unmodified circumstances, the core will fall naturally, even with the secondary closed, it would only be a matter of time. In the proposed setup, I predict the same phenomenon, though the part of the core opposite the secondary would open more quickly and the core would begin to hinge open and and slowly drop out.

This would prove that the movement at the atomic level is causing an opposing field in the secondary; ( however small ), it is enough to fight gravity and hold the cores together wile the secondary is shorted.

---

Another thought is that the when the current is removed, the polarity ultimately reverses in the secondary matching that of the primary. Since no short is made across the primary, there is some sustained polarity in that section as the field collapses. The secondary is shorted and current can freely flow in either direction. When current is removed from the primary, and reversed in the secondary, the two coincide thus furthering the above mentioned phenomenon.

In any event, there are a number of things going on here.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2014, 02:23:47 PM »
Hi jadaro2600,

Perhaps you have not noticed but there is a second part video on the tests shown in the first video and the 2nd part just deals with the duration the secondary (coil) seemingly maintains the magnetic field in the core: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsN2sr3U0PY 

I agree with your reasonings on the domains of the (different) cores that tend to revert to a non uniform state and the time the cores need to spend to "recover" from a huge current pulse is material and manufacturing-process dependent. I also agree on your reasonings on the outcome of a "hinged" core test.

rgds,  Gyula

Offline markdansie

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Re: Please disproof this video- it could be a hoax
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2014, 03:41:19 PM »
Hi.

I see that you have already decided what is real and possible.
I just checked it with two U shaped, big ferrite cores and the effect is there!
Our current understanding of electromagnetism is not yet complete...

We are living in a vast and dense sea of fluctuating energy fields. There is no 'close system' in reality, so the math and 'our laws of physics' apply only up to a certain level of complexity, as they are based on certain preconceived model of reality which is very basic and unfortunately flawed in many areas such as gravity, inner workings of the atom and macro scale cosmology. Try to search some info on electric Sun theory and see if it clicks ;)

Now, the way I understand this phenomenon goes like this:

Electric and magnetic field in this configuration are closely coupled and close-looped, they are more or less contained.
If any of them is exposed to external influence that tries to change it there is a resistance to that change, as it is commonly understood by the 'laws'.
Magnetic field in that video example is very strong, much stronger than Earth's magnetic field. So if we have a dense 'conductuctor' for magnetic flux - like a solid core - the remanence is very strong for that type of core. Why is it so strong then?
To me it looks like that there are lots of 'tiny' closed circuit path for current to flow inside such cores. You could say that superconductivity exists around magnetic domains in ferromagnetic conductors.
But to me it is more like an alignment of electric dipoles of iron molecules/free electrons where somehow it is easy to close the loop for the electrical potential, where again, this circular current is being somewhat 'shielded' from the external EM fields by surrounding, dense magnetic flux.
Now, the shorted winding illustrates this theory nicely, although in this configuration the wire is not shielded from all around that it is why it breaks loose after a while.
If my understanding is sound, it would be possible for a low remanence core, such as ferrite to retain induced magnetic flux for a long period of time as in Ed's Leedskalnin' PMH, provided a closed loop conductor INSIDE the core...

Be open minded, think, and do not follow blindly any religion like contemporary science ;)

kEhYo
Contemporary Science is open minded that is whty we are having a renewable energy revolution. What it does not tolerate is delusion,  poor measurements, bad methodology, wild assumptions, selective data analysis and a basic lack of understanding of the laws of nature.
Kind Regards
Mark
PS this is fake lol , the other commentators are covering it well

 

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