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Author Topic: Free Solid State/mechanical energy  (Read 468006 times)

IronHead

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Re: Free Solid State/mechanical energy
« Reply #75 on: February 17, 2007, 02:30:35 AM »
Scroll to the bottom of this page. I think these are the kind of magnets you might try.
These are neodymium motor magnets.

http://www.engconcepts.net/List_Of_Motor_Magnets.asp

barbosi

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Re: Free Solid State/mechanical energy
« Reply #76 on: February 17, 2007, 02:33:45 PM »
Scroll to the bottom of this page. I think these are the kind of magnets you might try.
These are neodymium motor magnets.

http://www.engconcepts.net/List_Of_Motor_Magnets.asp

It looks great, Thanks.

mkt3920

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Re: Free Solid State/mechanical energy
« Reply #77 on: February 18, 2007, 04:49:22 AM »
ERfinder,
The large diagram of the magnet ring looks like 8 magnets but on the yahoo forum you stated four magnets.  I assume the number of magnets is not important as long as they close the circle?  Correct?  (Ordering some now)

Coil winding -   The diagram looks like all the coils (primary and secondary) are wound in a counter clockwise direction TOWARD the magnet ring.  Correct?

Kent

barbosi

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Re: Free Solid State/mechanical energy
« Reply #78 on: February 18, 2007, 03:31:29 PM »
Just for confirmation, is this how is intended the rotary switch? (I still have trouble to figure what happens when EM field from secondary is collapsing - there has to be a LOT of HV spikes dumped into the battery)

Secondly, the HV capacitor in what kind of voltage range should be?

Thanks.

Charlie_V

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Re: Free Solid State/mechanical energy
« Reply #79 on: February 20, 2007, 02:58:22 AM »
Erfinder,

When you say "ignition coil", I imagine you mean the basic design of the ignition coil; a single layer coil wrapped around some sort of soft iron - like a Tesla coil with a core.  I say this because if you used a commercial ignition coil, you would have a lot longer wire than 144 inches.  I am very curious about the 144 inch secondary and the primary of equal weight but larger diameter.   

I have figured out why you are using a 24 pole switch (I think).  If you use 144 inches for each secondary coil, and connect them in series, you will have 576 inch wire total.  The square root of 576" is 24 - thus the 24 poles. 

Hrmmm, I think I might be starting to understand this a little better.  I remember reading in a book that Lord Kelvin related Tesla's magnifying transformer to an electrical musical instrument after Tesla explained to him how it worked.  What you seem to be saying is that the magnetic field resonants at a particular frequency that is an OCTAVE of the speed of light.  The length of coil is important because it makes an antenna-like connection to the radiating magnetic field of the permanent magnets.  However, instead of trying to match the length to the actual frequency of light, you match it to an octave (maybe all magnetic fields are simply octaves of light).  Thus, the wire is 144 inches instead of miles.  I still haven't figured out why the primary must be roughly the same physical mass - maybe because there needs to be roughly the same amount of atoms in both coils?

If I'm getting warmer let me know haha!

PS in your first post you said that the primary had to be 144 inches long, and in this more recent one you say the secondary has to be 144 inches long... I think your first post is a typo, but correct this if I'm wrong.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 05:01:38 AM by Charlie_V »

orosado

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Re: Free Solid State/mechanical energy
« Reply #80 on: February 20, 2007, 04:48:27 PM »
Hello Charlie_V,

I couldn't of said it better myself. I thought about the matching weight being due to the similar number of atoms to vibrate in conjunction. And regarding the 144 inches being an Octave of the light, simply brilliant!

Let's hope Erfinder can confirm this...

Sincerely,
Omar Rosado


Erfinder,

When you say "ignition coil", I imagine you mean the basic design of the ignition coil; a single layer coil wrapped around some sort of soft iron - like a Tesla coil with a core.  I say this because if you used a commercial ignition coil, you would have a lot longer wire than 144 inches.  I am very curious about the 144 inch secondary and the primary of equal weight but larger diameter.   

I have figured out why you are using a 24 pole switch (I think).  If you use 144 inches for each secondary coil, and connect them in series, you will have 576 inch wire total.  The square root of 576" is 24 - thus the 24 poles. 

Hrmmm, I think I might be starting to understand this a little better.  I remember reading in a book that Lord Kelvin related Tesla's magnifying transformer to an electrical musical instrument after Tesla explained to him how it worked.  What you seem to be saying is that the magnetic field resonants at a particular frequency that is an OCTAVE of the speed of light.  The length of coil is important because it makes an antenna-like connection to the radiating magnetic field of the permanent magnets.  However, instead of trying to match the length to the actual frequency of light, you match it to an octave (maybe all magnetic fields are simply octaves of light).  Thus, the wire is 144 inches instead of miles.  I still haven't figured out why the primary must be roughly the same physical mass - maybe because there needs to be roughly the same amount of atoms in both coils?

If I'm getting warmer let me know haha!

PS in your first post you said that the primary had to be 144 inches long, and in this more recent one you say the secondary has to be 144 inches long... I think your first post is a typo, but correct this if I'm wrong.

barbosi

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Re: Free Solid State/mechanical energy
« Reply #81 on: February 20, 2007, 05:34:26 PM »
I could see the idea about mass. Another way to *feel* it, is also the law of energy conservation (please don't boo yet).
E1=m1*c^2
E2=m2*c^2
So for an optimum transfer: m1=m2.

However, I still don't have a grasp of how an Octave is defined here.
The traditional way, adoptet in music too, is in relation of 2, not of 3.
Example:
The note A4 (La for others) is 440Hz, while A3 on lower Octave is 220Hz. That based on Middle C being C4.

Related to light wavelenght, not sure what color... Usually the value range from 400 to 700nm.

There must be something else I'm missing here.

Regards.

Grumpy

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Re: Free Solid State/mechanical energy
« Reply #82 on: February 20, 2007, 08:07:59 PM »
Quote from Erfinder (which means "Inventor" in German)

Quote
Wow, still no response.....interesting.......


Wire sizes, and their relationships can be understood by dissecting an auto ignition coil (albeit this is limited, because the designers of these apparatus don't take heed to what Tesla said about weight).  I do realize that in this example the secondary winding is small, but here scaling is an  option.  The sky's the limit.

For fun use a primary winding length of 144 inches, secondary length is irrelevant so long as the weight of the secondaries (individually) equal the weight of the primary.   I have not constrained myself to any specifics when it comes to wire sizes and neither should anyone else. 

Start with a 24 pole switch.  Once you build and work with the circuit you will begin to understand that there is a relationship between the number of poles and primary winding length!  Stick with the wire length of 144, and harmonics  of this number! 

The circuit was drawn the way it was so that it could be seen how one part of the system is related and interdependent on another.  What should be observed is how the fields are built up and how they collapse, and where they go when they do! !!!Collapse!!!  This circuit is of a motor, the rotary switch should be mounted on the same shaft as the magnet ring.  The magnet ring is a mystery in itself, as their is no magnetic field being radiated from it .

Even though no questions or comments have been made, hold them (the questions) until after you have done what has been suggested.  I say it like this because once you have  built it, all your questions will anwser themselves.

The quest for overunity is a DEAD END.  True Unity is the goal, systems where you take nothing you just use the flow!  Riding the on the waves (fields) of nature!!!   


Study the patents, study the diagram, and above all have fun, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain!!!

Primary is 144" based on 22.5mm per inch.  This is 127.56" when converted.

144 x 22.5 = 3240 / 360 = 9 = 3 squared - not sure if this means anything...

(BTW - Dr. Stefan Marinov built a motor that has a similar closed magnetic loop.  Few papers about it are on the web.)

Erfinder,

Having trouble finding the magnetic arc segments with magnetic poles in direction of circumference (or curvature).  Motor magnets are inside to outside.  To close the flux path, I need the poles in line with the curve.  I found some curved ones that Unimag sells with their kits.  Pole orientation appears corect, but may have several poles together inside.  I can make a ring via the Edward Leedskalnin method that will contain the flux forever - using coils temporarily energized and then disconnected - will try the 144" if I take this route.  I know this is not within the realm of your instructions.

Charlie_V

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Re: Free Solid State/mechanical energy
« Reply #83 on: February 21, 2007, 05:41:08 AM »
I've arranged normal, square, axially magnetized, magnets in a closed loop (non-leaking) setup like Erfinder is talking about.  You do not need specially bought magnets.  You take the square magnets and place smaller magnets at the edges on one side, between them such that they arc - you will need tape.  Refer to the picture I've posted.  This will form a closed magnetic loop when complete. 

I slightly disagree with some of Erfinder's theories.  If a unity or over-unity device is to be made, it will involve magnetic field manipulation - instead of no field at all.  The reason for this is not complex, a magnetic field is very similar to a fly wheel.  They are both devices that store kinetic energy.  The most important difference is that when a fly wheel's energy is used to do work, the kinetic energy is lost.  However, in a permanent magnet, the kinetic energy is not lost.  I have discovered that by proper manipulation of the fields, it is possible to create movements against gravity that do not follow E=mgh.  It is also possible to manifest electricity directly without the hindering effects of back EMF.  I would like to post how to do this at some point, but I am still experimenting and will refrain until I've verified my methods fully work (no hidden pitfalls).

This is what I've come to realize at this point:

The universe is held together by energy in two forms, kinetic and potential.  Since the universe is isolated, the energy will cycle back and forth between these two forms, without loss - like a perfect pendulum.  Storing potential will not work since this energy is not shared - it is only given or taken.  However, kinetic energy is shared, it is what transfers the potential, it is the giver or taker - not that which is given.  We do not see this sharing when dealing with masses because mass IS potential.  If you move an object, the stored potential (mass) is not used.  Thus, it appears that energy is conserved - and it will be since this is not the energy of the object but the energy imparted on it - we have balance, described by present-day science.  Nuclear reactors, on the other hand, DO use this stored potential - which is why you get over-unity (of sorts), you put a little bit of energy into the system and produce a larger amount out (i.e. over-unity). 

A magnetic field is much different.  Here we have the energy in a true kinetic form.  There exists no potential.  We can see this through simple magnetic induction.  Place a coil in a magnetic field and the coil will share the magnet's kinetic energy level.  Now if you try to move the coil or magnet, you will be changing the shared kinetic energy.  When the kinetic energy of a system changes, it is converted to potential.  Thus, we see an induced voltage - charges moved to generate a potential energy.  If you place a load on the coil, it will use that potential.  When a potential energy is used (i.e. changed) it is converted to kinetic.  Current in the coil is kinetic energy, but NOT the kinetic energy of the magnet!  There must be balance.  Therefore, the magnetic field of the coil will oppose that of the magnet by either pushing or pulling.  This effect is what we call back EMF or back torque and is nature's attempt to remain at the initial kinetic energy level.  This, to my knowledge, cannot be avoided. 

However, do recall that in the nuclear case, it was possible to place some energy into system and produce more than what was put in.  I believe this can be accomplished in the magnetic case as well - with no environmental impact.  The trick is finding a way to greatly alter the magnet's kinetic energy field with the smallest amount of applied energy.

I am not trying to discredit Erfinder, I'm just trying to say there are many ways a blind man can describe an orange, neither way is wrong yet none will be completely right - that goes toward my own observations as well. 

Grumpy

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Re: Free Solid State/mechanical energy
« Reply #84 on: February 21, 2007, 06:31:52 AM »
Erfinder is right on the money.

The resulting field, which will usually penetrate all materials (actually it can be trapped and you get some sort of wierd non-radiating result) will be lobed due to the bloch walls of the magnet segments.  The coils at 90 degrees will cause this field to twist.  I am guessing that a true rotation of this field will not occur, but I am not sure at this point.  On second thought, it will rotate.  Anyway, this field has "momentum" characteristics and has been linked to gravity, yet its functionality still escapes modern physics.  I need to build it to complete my understanding of it.  Anything else is just a guess.

Magnetic field is a standing closed field.  This is the wrong "harmonic" as Erfinder would put it.  All magnets have a frequency, but I do not know how to determine this.  It is very limited compared to the field that Erfinder is talking about.  there are actaully two potentials at right angles to each other.  In particular terms of Einstein, one potential represents time and the other is space, but the time one has ben shown to exist without the space one - therefore the time one is considered primary.  The space potential will be in the center of the rotor and wrap around the ring.  The time one will be all around the ring and perpendicular to the axis.  I am not positive which one he is stimulating - perhaps both.

Charlie - Kinetic is secondary to the potential that creates it.  There exists only the potentials.

You must have potential of male and female to have a flow. (work of Walter Russell)

You can use the potentials to create a region of high vacuum or pressure.  Ion pumps are used to create extremely high vacuum.

I believe that 4 magnetic segments are required for the given arrangement - not that variations would not work - but you would need to know the concepts well to adjust the system.

Will take a little time to put this together.

Charlie_V

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Re: Free Solid State/mechanical energy
« Reply #85 on: February 21, 2007, 12:11:18 PM »
If you are worried about not having the right number of magnets, then instead of using a smaller magnet between the 2 larger, use a piece of plastic cut into a triangle - so that they arc.  Have 4 triangle plastic pieces to connect 4 magnets.  That will give you the right number of magnets and allow for closed loop. 

In the drawing that Erfinder gave, of course the wheel will rotate.  When the secondaries become energized, the field will try to traverse the path of the magnetic ring, encounter an opposite force and produce movement.  Don't get me wrong, I'm always open to new ideas.  If I get some time I will construct this circuit.  It seems pretty simple and I have tons of magnets laying around - they are rare earth though, hope that doesn't mess anything up.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 12:53:06 PM by Charlie_V »

barbosi

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Re: Free Solid State/mechanical energy
« Reply #86 on: February 21, 2007, 03:31:50 PM »
Thank you guys, this topic is realy refreshing. I miss a lot of basic knowledge and I have to do a lot of reading and digesting the information.

For those willing to pass the gate, I found this site explaining paramagnetism:
http://www.naturesalternatives.com/lc/lcparamagnetism.html

I hope there is no missleading information (please let me know if it does) and if anyone has more, please post the links. I have to admit, with all my desire to crack "the code", studying the sugested material was doomed to failure because of lack of basics.
As me, I suspect there are many others who may think they know. Please give the oprtunity not only to learn how to catch a fish, but also "what is a hook, what is a sinker, where to look for a catch"

Please go on, you have all my attention and I'll try to catch-up.

Thanks.

Grumpy

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Re: Free Solid State/mechanical energy
« Reply #87 on: February 21, 2007, 04:45:42 PM »
Erfinder,

Is the diameter of the magnets and comutator important?  You mention 135 rpm.  The duration of the pulses will depend on the diameter.  I think that the commutator should be small in diameter to keep the pulses short.  For proof of concept, this probably doesn't matter.

Still have not found magnets other than the colored ones that I mentioned.  I can make them with iron powder and epoxy (or even wax, etc.) - cured in a solenoidal field.

Colored magnets here: M-941 (half way down page)
http://www.teachersource.com/catalog/page/Electricity_Magnetism_Engines/Magnet_Products/?id=9f64d1e8afe8270d1c2ce4d23ab35b2f

EDIT:
Matching mass of the coils implies a harmonic balance between the molecules themselves.  There are "frequencies" from the atom on up to the mass of the wire - it would not surprise me if these are harmonicly related.  Also, there seems to be no mass requriement or relation between the magnet ring and the coils - only between the number of poles and the coils/wire length.  To me, this implies that the magnets are a means to create the field(s) and their mass is not that important.  Only curtain outside fields will effect a closed magnetic loop - have to look that up - can't recall exactly

Taking this logical deduction more towards the "fringe" - this device should show a mass deviation and possibly a time dilation.

Sidebar question: should the rotor be electrically isolated from the housing or electrically connected?

If Michael Faraday had researched the fields and potentials that create magnetism and electricity - we would already be exploring the edges of our galaxy. 

P.S. Erfinder is also correct about the mental blocks.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 08:09:58 PM by Grumpy »

Grumpy

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Re: Free Solid State/mechanical energy
« Reply #88 on: February 21, 2007, 09:57:20 PM »
I have a good idea of the outcome, it's the process of getting there that I need to understand.  I do not have your understanding of the measuring system and it's relation to the fields.  I understand what you call the different octaves, but not why 22.5mm is required for resonance between the these octaves.  I guess the "why" does not matter as long as it works.

Since a 6" ring is required (outside diameter) with 2" i.d. - I will have to make magnet segments or Leedskalnin type ring.  The latter sounds easier.

Using iron ring of above dimensions, 144" coils in four segments spaced 90 degrees and wrapped around ring to create 4 poles trapping flux in core.

Charlie_V

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Re: Free Solid State/mechanical energy
« Reply #89 on: February 22, 2007, 01:40:34 AM »
Hey Grumpy,

I've got the same problem you do.  I think I can see what will happen when the secondary coils are energized but don't see the connection between the "octaves" and resonance.  As barbosi pointed out earlier, the definition of an octave is a frequency multiplied by a factor of (2^n).  Erfinder uses (3^n).  It is also confusing why he took the square root of light velocity and not an "octave" integer.  Got any insights as to why/what this is/does - any hints Erfinder?

I noticed earlier that your conversion of 144" (22.5mm) was 127.56" for a conventional inch.  I might be wrong, but shouldn't that be 162.56"?  The conventional inch is based on a 25.4mm scale (1"=25.4mm).  So to convert 144" we multiply it by (25.4/22.5) or (1.2888888...9) = 162.56.  I think you have your conversion factor inverted. 

I drew up a quick sketch of what I think the field interactions will be like (let me know if this is what you were thinking too).  It appears to me that when the switch discharges the capacitor, you will get an increase in current (since the capacitor will act like another 12V battery in parallel).  This will energize the secondary coils causing the PM wheel to move - cutting the connection.  The induced "back EMF" of the secondaries will collapse.  Through induction, the primaries (now disconnected) will recharge the capacitor.  In this case, the permanent magnets do not supply the back EMF, they only produce a force to rotate the wheel (cutting the connection).  The back EMF is produced by the fields in the secondaries collapsing and inducing a voltage into the primaries.

Yes, this circuit is only on half the time.  I'm pretty sure that placing a load on the rotor would cause it to stop.  If not, it will be draining energy from the battery - but hopefully I'm wrong!  It would be interesting if, instead of a battery, a pre-charged capacitor is used.