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Author Topic: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.  (Read 34417 times)

Offline pauldude000

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Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« on: February 05, 2013, 07:29:24 PM »
I do not think that much of anyone has actually realistically and logically asked the question: "If overunity exists, why hasn't it been replicated?"


I know the question has been asked to death. I just do not think it has been given due diligence of logical thought. By definition, if overunity is posible it would HAVE NO CHOICE but be both extremely difficult to obtain, and equally hard to duplicate. You may well be asking why at this point.


Otherwise it would occur commonly and often in nature.... If such were to be common or easily attained, then this entire universe would have a problem. It would destroy itself due to sudden random discharges of enormous amounts of energy when the 'easily attained' situations happen to be present which are common. The universe itself probably would not have lasted long at all in such a scenario.


Does anyone see the problem?


This is not to say either that overunity is impossible, just that the universe would have natural physical laws which would either govern or moderate such energy release, and that it would be a very complex interaction required for said release so that it would be an extremely rare natural occurance.


The next question is: Is it even possible?


Overunity is only possible due to our own ignorance. Please bear with me on this.


All energy must come from a source of potential, and have a gradient upon which it can return to that potential. We as humans, especially in these over egotistical times, think we have a handle on things. Realistically there is far more that we don't know, than we do know. It is PROBABLE that there are innumerable things which we neither have comprehended nor detected. This could be anything from, fields, forms of energy, who can even realistically guess?


However, we can realistically assume for the moment that everything physical interacts in some manner and to some degree with everything else. Whether you are talking fields, particles, matter or motion, these things all tie together somewhere in every conceivable scenario. For example, matter in motion through a field can cause physical motion, energy flow, or even a different field generation, or even all of the above.


Realistically, we as humans have a working knowledge of some of these things. However this working knowledge is often put forth as absolute. That is where ignorance comes in.


Ignorance is the lack of knowledge. People can be smart in one area, and quite ignorant in another. It is not an insult to be ignorant, as ALL HUMANS are ignorant. Stephen Hawkins may not know squat about cooking or internal combustion engines, as a for instance. A physicist does not have the same knowledge set as an engineer, or a chemist, or a biologist, or a mathematician. All of these are specialized in their own right, and draw from both common and specialized information sets. Ignorance is changed with the acquisition of knowledge on a subject.


All that is required for overunity to be possible is ignorance concerning an undiscovered or misunderstood energy source. That is it. The odds are actually high that such a thing could or even probably does exist. Why does this matter?


Extraneous energy present in any system must be accounted for in any system, otherwise no laws of thermodynamics have been violated. These laws are specific to the concept of a system. However, we as humans do not get the luxury of defining "the system".


The laws of thermodynamics are often misapplied concerning this subject. Before anyone gets irate please understand that I do not think everyone doing so does such intentionally. I think it is a matter of shortsightedness.


As an oversimplified 'for instance':


You see a circuit placed in front of you. You see a battery, a switch, and a light bulb which is dimly lit. You measured the resistance of the bulb, and the voltage of the battery. In your mind you have determined both power source, and amount of power. Unknown to you is a hidden battery with another switch not controlled by you. The switch is activated by circumstances determined by the circuit itself.


All of a sudden the light glows brightly, but you cannot determine the existence of the second battery. You know more energy is present than provided by the known battery. It appears to be a violation of the first and second laws of thermodynamics, as the energy within the system is now greater than can be determined by the known power source and has apparently appeared suddenly and for no known determinable reason from no-where. The determined system is the battery and the light bulb.


This is an oversimplified example, but it gets across the point.


The second battery not known or accounted for is part of the system and has always been part of the system. The laws were never violated . What was wrong was that the observer discounted an extraneous power source.


Overunity then is ignorance of an existent power source, which is possible only because there are many things we as humans do not yet know. Once said power source is known, then a circuit determined to be at overunity today, is then at or below unity once the source is determined.


This is one form of overunity.


Another form of overunity has to do with efficiency. If the basis for efficiency is inaccurate in any scenario, then any increase of efficiency is determined as overunity. However this may well be caused by an incorrect baseline of efficiency for the common model. For instance, if the way a thing was traditionally done was extremely inefficient to begin with, then using it as a baseline for comparison is preposterous and leads to misapplication of the first and second laws of thermodynamics yet again.


(Hint... Electrolysis for one example, which baseline of measurement was set before AC was even discovered or pulsed DC even considered.)


These are some things to consider.


However, access to a true "Overunity" power source of any unlimited or even very large potential obviously would not be easy to tap into as a usable power source, as we still exist and the universe with us. It would be probably by accident initially. Replication or even duplication would be next to impossible as it was by accident, then principles behind at best guessed at.


Does that mean don't try? OH HECK NO! That is what science is all about; the attempt to discover the unknown, and quantify the known.


Advice and opinion:


Believers: If you discover something, keep accurate records of your efforts so that you at least have a chance at repeating the event. Even a notebook journal is better than nothing, so long as you keep track of the build in the journal, and testing notes including instrument settings. Don't automatically assume anything.


Unbelievers: If you cannot be reasonable with those doing the work of scientists here, then simply back the heck off and shut the heck up, and go see a shrink. You chose to come here and be a troll by definition.


Skeptics: Be polite, but remind the believers of things they may well be overlooking. Keep them honest. Remember that the unbelievers are posing as skeptics.... what you do there is up to you within the limits of reason. If someone claims overunity, do what you can to help and replicate or try to discover the source of energy, but don't be surprised if you cannot. If it was by nature easy or simple, it would be everywhere and discovered by now.

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Offline FatBird

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Re: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2013, 11:53:48 PM »
Very BRILLIANT Dissertation.
 
Thanks for sharing.
 
 
.

Offline Eighthman

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Re: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2013, 08:20:31 PM »
 :)   Yes !  Great minds think alike !!!!
 
I've already posted this same thought:  if we didn't have the Laws of Thermodynamics to protect us, we wouldn't exist.  Free energy would be spilling out, endangering everything.
 
However,  there is a possible exception - transients. Brief contradictions of Energy Conservation could exist without wrecking everything.  There was a paper on "Energy Creation" by Pappas that suggested this some years ago.

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Re: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2013, 08:20:31 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2013, 09:23:55 PM »
An other way of thinking:

We have free energy, it is the sun (heat and photo voltaic), it is the wind (driven by the sun), it is the tides (driven by the moon), it is the plants (growing by themselves if we do not destroy them), it is hydroelectric power (because the rain falls on the mountains and the water is running down into the oceans where it evaporates again), and so on.

What we can not manage is the harvesting of this free energy in a way that helps everybody.

There is striving for power, greed and jealousy. And this causes a failure in the just distribution of energy and everything else humans need.

In short: we have free energy, but we can not come up with a policy to use it for the common good.

Why is that: because me and you, we fail at politics, ethics and common sense.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline TechStuf

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Re: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2013, 11:05:37 PM »

Quote
Otherwise it would occur commonly and often in nature.... If such were to be common or easily attained, then this entire universe would have a problem.

This large assumption is itself, yet another example of our shared ignorant condition.  Nothing in our universe is as simple as it appears.  Nothing.  So, man's logic tends to break down where he continually fails to rise to the occasion of being even a remotely relative observer.  Magnetics researcher, Howard Johnson, is quoted to have said:

"I don't know how the electrons got started spinning, and I don't know how to stop them, do you?"

Perpetual motion is everywhere and mankind lacks even a crude understanding of how 'relative' that motion is, much less it's origin.  Take for example, the flagellar motor.  Arguably the most efficient electric motor known, it was discovered to be the inboard motor inside the bodies of certain bacteria.  The flagellar motor is complete with sensors, switches, stator, rotor, bushings, drive shaft, universal joint, propeller....etc.

http://www.pnas.org/content/103/5/1260/F1.large.jpg

Examine the pictures closely....How does one honestly ascribe such an engineering feat as a self replicating electric motor, so small that 8 million of them would fit end to end in the thickness of the root of an average human hair, to blind, dumb, chance?  Man is so clumsy in comparison....actually, there is really NO comparison.  Which means that if one is of the atheistic stripe, one is left to face the stark "apparent" reality that the very "pinnacle" of evolution, 'mankind', is rather infinitely LESS than the sum of his parts!

Many a sciential geek extraordinaire would jump for joy when he can make a two piece macro object with moving parts in a common 3d printer! (myself included)

Take the lowly human red blood cell for instance.  Do not the 'hallowed' halls of higher learning teach that homo erectus was the first to walk upright?  Here, the truth teaches us that man's assumptive nature often makes giant, foolhardy leaps in logic! We see that the inside of our trillions of cells is each like a harmonious city, replete with high tech gadgetry....sky scrapers, rapidly self assembling/dis-assembling highways, timely trash collectors, gears, cogs, levers, ....and BIPEDAL organisms walking upright on those magic highways, hauling giant bags of cargo to and fro.  And why do they do the things they do?  They operate with "HIGH PURPOSE" and are much more advanced than the small packets of 'protoplasmic goo' that the arrogant PHDs had so many believing them to be for decade upon decade.

No....'evolution'....mindless, blinded, nothingness did not assemble such fine Masterwork.

That the brain of mankind is 'wired' into space time, and capable of seeing future events innately, has been proven statistically in the lab, and categorically in the observations of many among the world's populations at large.

Why does the human pineal gland contain photo receptor cells similar to retinal cells, even a rudimentary lens?  A 'third eye'?  Why put flouride in water to be ingested, if it's just for teeth and labelled NOT for ingestion?  It is known to 'calcify' the pineal gland....our 'WiFi' connection to a reality much greater than our own.  Who would want to sabotage man's link to the higher realm?

Taken on the whole,  (sad little pun) our 'reality' our 'universe' owes it's existence, it's combined energy to something much more advanced.  Some One.  And that Some One, is about to "bring to ruin, those ruining the earth". 

Which is more important at this, the most critical juncture in human history?  Pondering the infinite? or Pondering whether or not we should have a place in it and what is required for 'perpetuation that matters'?

Ponder this:  It is written that God made Eve by causing Adam to sleep and then taking a rib while he slept.  Many a "high mind" has ridiculed this "primitive myth" over the ages.  Yet what is occurring today?  Do not surgeons remove up to six ribs at a time from some one that 'they' cause to fall asleep?  And why do they do this?  For bone marrow transplants and genetic research!  Why ribs?  Because they are the only bones in the human body that grow back every time they are carefully removed!  The One that invented us knows a thing or two about cloning, I'd say.  Do you, dear reader, find it a bit hypocritical to laugh at the story of our Inventor performing surgery to obtain copious DNA material for the purpose of making a mate, when 'scientists' of today are playing like infants at doing the same?  Again, our view of reality is rather like a child's view of the delivery room from inside it's mother's womb.

Please consider the following:

It is revealed at Revelation 13:18 in God's Word :

“Here is WISDOM. Let him that hath UNDERSTANDING count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

I have capitalized the words, wisdom and understanding, so that the reader may observe that Christ is here revealing a clue to the identity and mark of the ‘beast’. If one looks back to the books of Kings and Chronicles, one finds the man of whom Christ is speaking. What man is recorded in both books to have exacted gold tributes of 666 talents? What man was gifted with wisdom and understanding above every other of his day? What man fell away from worshiping the One True God, following after the false gods of his many wives?   

Surely by now, the reader can discern what man! Solomon! The man that took the ‘star of chemosh’ as his own personal seal, afterward to be known as the ‘seal of solomon! Later, to be referred to, (as a cover up) as the “star of david”. The HEXagram has no historical link to David of the Bible. It IS however, linked with the fallen solomon. And what organizations today USE the six pointed star?

The ‘free’masons are founded upon the fallen solomon and have revered him highly throughout their organization….and ‘who’ else shares this symbol, steeped in demonic ritual? One cannot now look at C-span without seeing the six pointed star on the national seal, and a HEXagram between each and every member of congress. Soldiers are now asking why it is that each officer sword of all branches of the military have the HEXagram on the hilt of every blade. The HEXagram is a geometric reference to the number 666. The cwhoreporation, Digimarc, for instance, (designer of driver’s licenses and ID’s for various U.S. states) has an interesting logo…. look at the colored spoked wheels inside the circle. Notice (at the link below) the color key on the outside edge? Using those colors, one may find 3 six spoked ‘stars’ superimposed upon one another. 6-6-6…..and on forms of citizen identification no less!

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/799f8af9fb.jpg

Take a dollar bill from one’s back pocket and see that the HEXagram mark of the beast is emblazoned above the eagle, which is their way of indicating that ‘they’ rule ‘over’ america.  But why believe me? See for yourselves:

http://leavethecult.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/satur-six-pointed-star-temple-canada.jpg

Google – six pointed star mark

Google – 666 talents of gold

Google – D.C. Jerusalem masonic shrine

Google – Shriner lucifer

Google – lucifer telescope

Youtube – walmart guard towers. They have made their deal with the devil, so to speak and are considered, “too big to fail”. Their workers already wear the six pointed ‘star’ on the foreheads. (of their hats anyway) Can the reader now see that, after all the smaller retail food outlets have diminished or dried up and blown away, that only the largest retail giant in the land will have food rations? That is why they have the guard towers? And what is their “mark”? The same as the mark of the beast! It’s not hard to see food lines and many minions, having signed their lives away, lining up with their ‘marks’ handy, in order to obtain rations.
 
Google – Walmart six pointed logo

Google – soldiers ask why six pointed star now on all officer swords

Google – talmud truths

The hour is late, the harvest is great and the workers are few…. See the signs He has promised us…

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_earthchanges31.htm

The story “Huge Media Blackout regarding earth and moon orbital changes” used to be hosted at Beforeitsnews.com but the story was deleted several times. This information is of vital importance to all who wish to make informed decisions regarding the lives of their loved ones and themselves. Many were warned, yet because of the “HUGE MEDIA BLACKOUT” when the great flooding on the missouri river took place in 2011 as a direct result of the markedly increased solar radiation now hitting the northern latitudes in spring and summer months, not many took heed to the warnings. And who knew beforehand??? I attended the army core of engineers meeting after the disaster and addressed the Truth. The cowards sat silent and guilty, and there is no way they couldn’t have known well before hand as I and many others knew and tried to warn others.  Study and see that Luke 21:25-28 is in fulfillment at this time. And see that when God says that the heavenly bodies will shake, and there will be signs in sun, moon and stars, while the nations will be in anguish over the great agitation of the oceans…..He Means It. Isaiah 24:20, He means it. Revelation 16:8, He means it!

http://science.time.com/2013/03/08/recent-heat-spike-unlike-anything-in-11000-years/

Christ also means it as He reassures us, “When you see the beginning of these things, STAND UP and LIFT UP your heads, for your redemption draws near”. TOO many are instead doing just the opposite, sitting down and hanging their heads! IF ONE IS AFRAID of what is coming upon the world, it is only because, deep down, you believe YOU HAVE IT COMING to you!

DO YOU? Kneel and repent of sin, live STRONG in HIS WORD, His SON, Jesus Christ, and be forgiven, and you will instead find GREAT REASON to stand and raise your heads, even your voices, to God and to your fellow man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7dpGWYZMDc

He forgave Kirk Martin, He can forgive you too….Try Him. Soon.
For those who truly seek to know God’s ways, If He exists, where is his signature on Creation….I tell you the time is short, the harvest is great, and the workers are few. See:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnSxRYx82Gk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJyUtbn0O5Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7dpGWYZMDc

http://arkdiscovery.com/noah's_ark.htm

http://arkdiscovery.com/sodom_&_gomorrah.htm

 
God's Word told the end from the beginning, and SO MANY are missing out on account of ignorance, prejudice, intellectual cowardice, etc...!

Don't be among them.

Blessings friends, in Jesus Christ!

And remember, the hour is late, and It is HIGH TIME to STAND UP and LIFT UP your heads, for your redemption draws near!!!
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 08:03:39 AM by TechStuf »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2013, 11:05:37 PM »
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Offline Eighthman

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Re: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2013, 02:05:10 AM »
The free energy you describe is diffuse and requires storage media.  In fact, if they could develop a Really Good Battery, most of our energy problems would disappear but that hasn't happened.  I was hopeful about Ceramatec's lower temperature Sodium Sulfur battery but that seems to have gone nowhere.
 
The new Aluminum Air battery (Phinergy) has the range but needs cheap smelting, as far as I know. 

Offline TechStuf

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Re: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2013, 05:21:10 AM »
Eighthman, Youtube - Graphene....

In a word, whoa!

If a layer an atom thick stretched over a coffe mug can hold up a car, imagine a million layers (about a thumbnail's thickness)

Also, it holds a charge like no other material ever discovered, can be charged very quickly, and is being made in lightscribe DVD drives....


TS


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2013, 05:21:10 AM »
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Offline TechStuf

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Re: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2013, 10:55:37 PM »
Precisely, Webby1.....yet another 'grand reach' of ignarrogance.


"Energy can neither be created nor destroyed".....blah...blah...


TS

Offline Neo-X

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Re: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2013, 04:56:56 AM »
I have very simple answer to this... It is because all matter and energy are undergo in stable state. When the matter and energy is in stable state, it was difficult to make it unstable to release its own energy.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2013, 04:56:56 AM »
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Offline Tzecoatl

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Re: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2014, 08:50:17 AM »
Here is one source of overunity energy with electrical experiences :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchange_interaction

Here is one explanation with Davey-Dumas dispositif (sorry, in french : http://leblogdejc.com/effetdumas/?page_id=2).


Offline gauschor

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Re: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2014, 11:38:09 PM »
@OP: You are right. Case closed. Let's shut down the forum.

Just kidding. No, seriously. It sounds reasonable if overunity can only happen if we somehow tap an energy source we do not know exists, but which is active in this device. Sometimes I remember Daniel Pomerlou with his magic free energy devices and I believe he can only make them work because he sees things common people can't see. These things might not be free energy either, but he knows how to tap into them.

However:
If the universe is infinite, and every singe being can extend the universe by simple imagination, then overunity could definitely be possible. Because it's not a limited box with limited energy, but an unlimited box with unlimited energy. Though it seems our 3rd dimensional existence lacks the appropriate knowledge to recognize it. If we could tap into this source it would be utter random luck. A chance one in a bazillion. A working device delivering overunity would probably never be replicable because of a miniscule detail which is active in that specific device, but is ignored by us or cannot be understood by our simple minds.

All speculation and philosophy.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2014, 11:38:09 PM »
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Offline pauldude000

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Re: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2014, 03:43:17 AM »
@OP: You are right. Case closed. Let's shut down the forum.

Just kidding. No, seriously. It sounds reasonable if overunity can only happen if we somehow tap an energy source we do not know exists, but which is active in this device. Sometimes I remember Daniel Pomerlou with his magic free energy devices and I believe he can only make them work because he sees things common people can't see. These things might not be free energy either, but he knows how to tap into them.

However:
If the universe is infinite, and every singe being can extend the universe by simple imagination, then overunity could definitely be possible. Because it's not a limited box with limited energy, but an unlimited box with unlimited energy. Though it seems our 3rd dimensional existence lacks the appropriate knowledge to recognize it. If we could tap into this source it would be utter random luck. A chance one in a bazillion. A working device delivering overunity would probably never be replicable because of a miniscule detail which is active in that specific device, but is ignored by us or cannot be understood by our simple minds.

All speculation and philosophy.


Too many speculations and assumptions. There is no proof or evidence demonstrating that the universe is any manner infinite. Anything based on that line of thought is mere philosophical assertion.


However, the odds of finding a new, previously unknown source of energy would be, naturally, quite large. Philosophically speaking, mankind's largest arrogance is a claim of scientific piety mixed with a demonstrative penchant for an unspoken claim of absolute knowledge. We know very little in the grand scheme of things, but ask us what we know and there is seemingly little left to learn.


Stiff shirts, straight ties, arrogant attitudes, and pompous claims about lines we have drawn in the sand concerning things we only understand a simple overview of all summarize our nature, as beings, quite well.

Offline ARMCORTEX

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Re: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2014, 04:20:22 AM »
The reason is simly because you must take much time, energy, money.

And go fully to that project.

These aree all things of value, in a world of fast fast gimme gimme, 99.5%, the not so sophisticated fail.

Offline gauschor

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Re: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2014, 02:39:43 PM »
Philosophically speaking, mankind's largest arrogance is a claim of scientific piety mixed with a demonstrative penchant for an unspoken claim of absolute knowledge. We know very little in the grand scheme of things, but ask us what we know and there is seemingly little left to learn.

On a sidenote this makes youth after school go "huh... what shall we do? what's left to learn if we already know everything"

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2014, 02:48:58 PM »
Over Unity is already here, it is called "the sun"!

The sun drives the growing of all plants and animals. The sun drives the rivers, the tides and the wind.

There are very simple means to harvest energy from the sun light (solar panels), to harvest energy from flowing water (power stations or water wheels) and to harvest power from the wind (wind mills, sailing boats).

For us mere humans the sun is limitless (a few more milliard years) and therefore free OU. And there are trillions of suns in the universe.

But we have come up with an economic system that makes everyone pay for energy. Therefore no OU.

Even if some one invents an OU mechanism (OU as imagined and defined by many OU enthusiasts), it will not be free for long. And besides that, it would destroy us. Just imagine free OU energy in the hands of an army. Or even worse, free OU energy in the hands of the politicians. Or the worst case scenario: free OU energy in your hands or in my hands!

Greetings, Conrad

 

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