am new here of course,..I have only one question,....I have been kicking this idea around for quite a while and I just want to know if you think it may work as I invisioned here.
I have a fan (electric motor) in a ac ground unit.
It operates at 1075 rpms @ 2.6 amps.
I was thinking about setting a PMA above it set on brackets, with the shafts lined up and coupled.
The pma will generate 12.7 amps@950 rpms and is nearly coggless.
The weight of the pma(including shaft)would hover a 1/2 inch above the electric motor shaft on a bracket, thereby, the weight of the PMA is not adding weight to the electric motor.
My thoughts are that the electric motor that operates @ 1075 rpms,...when coupled with the PMA,..the rpm would round off to about 1000 rpm.
My question is,..can this work without burning up the electric motor?
If this will not burn up the electric motor,...then even though it takes 2.6 amps to operate the electric motor from the grid,..I am gaining basicly 10.1 amps excess that can be attached to a grid-tie inverter.
Your thoughts would be appreciated..thankyou

Thank You for the response.
Once the PMA reaches 950 RPMS,..it is nearly coggless(Very little resisance),...also, the PMA is brushless.
I would think that if the Electric fan motor were to draw more amps for operation,..it would not be much............sorta like a household box fan that has dust that has built up on the fan blades over time,...it does not blow as well,..but it still works for months before it burns the motor.
I would think that the fan would draw away heat from the electric motor when in operation,..and with the fan blowing on the PMA,...helps keep it cooled down.

If this would work,...one could turn this on at night and cause the meter to turn backwards

Yes,..I have every intention of trying this,..just as soon as I can afford the money to put this together.

Thank you for replying:
Could you please expand on your statement of..."Heavier Load"?
The electric motor operates @ 1075 rpm,....the PMA is designed for windmill generator,..it produces electricity at low speeds,..but it has been tested @950 rpms and will put out 12.7 amps
It is brushless,...the only restraint is the weight of the shaft and not the outter core,...but at 950 RPM,..it is nearly coggless.
I have no doubt that there will be a slight cog present,..but I do not believe it is enough to hinder the output.
The electric motor(Fan) Is @ 1075 rpm,......considering I figured there would be a slight drag,...that is why I anticipate the rpms on the Electric motor fan to round out @ 1000 rpms.
Electric motors have shown to continue running without burning up when drag is present. 

Thank you for replying:
Could you please expand on your statement of..."Heavier Load"?
The electric motor operates @ 1075 rpm,....the PMA is designed for windmill generator,..it produces electricity at low speeds,..but it has been tested @950 rpms and will put out 12.7 amps
It is brushless,...the only restraint is the weight of the shaft and not the outter core,...but at 950 RPM,..it is nearly coggless.
I have no doubt that there will be a slight cog present,..but I do not believe it is enough to hinder the output.
The electric motor(Fan) Is @ 1075 rpm,......considering I figured there would be a slight drag,...that is why I anticipate the rpms on the Electric motor fan to round out @ 1000 rpms.
Electric motors have shown to continue running without burning up when drag is present.

Hi,

On 'heavier load' I mean as follows:  you use say a 12 Ohm power resistor as a load across the output of your alternator, the current draw will be 1 Amper if the alternator output voltage is around 12V. Now suppose you replace the 12 Ohm resistor with a 2 Ohm power resistor,  this is what I call a heavier load because the current draw goes up to at least 6 Amper provided the alternator keeps its output voltage at 12V as earlier.   

Some more notes:  it would be good for you to feel the torque by your gloved hand on the shaft this PMA must receive from the wind or from any other prime mover when it rotates at 950 RPM and you take the 12.7 Amper out of it.  Will the fan motor be able maintain that much torque on its shaft when the PMA is tied to it?  The only correct answer you can get is to test this and see for yourself. I understand you do not belive us, this is natural.

rgds,  Gyula

...
Now one would think that if the motor and generator both have losses,then the thing should wind down to a stop quicker?
...

Hi tinman,

My take on why they do not wind down much quicker is that they are nearly "matched".

I mean the motor have T torque at a load and at an I input power and the generator is able to supply around I output power when rotated by the T torque on its shaft.  These are basic requirements for a longer wind-down to occur but eventually the setup winds down due to the copper and friction losses.

There might be one hope I can see here for such setup to maintain operation: once we have such well matched motor and generator then we could try to achieve electrical resonance by tuning capacitors in parallel with them so that the reactive currents in the coils could be enhanced Q times as much, like Hector Perres's rotoverter principle but in this case the useful torque output (if any) would be tied to a given RPM and whenever the load would increase, the chances of falling the system apart and eventually stop would be high.  I do not say this will surely maintain operation because I have not tried such setup but I do not reject it off hand if resonant operation would be involved. Here I mean that say the motor-generator combination has an L resultant inductance when they are hooked up (and this L would fluctuate in a range in the function of RPM, unfortunately) and for this L value you find a C (run cap type) capacitor which would give resonance with L at the frequency of the RPM.

rgds, Gyula

PS In my answer with respect to the fan motor - PMA case of the first post above I considered the huge power differences involved between the two.  There are several patents from the past 50 or more years which show exactly this: connecting a motor shaft directly or via gear to a generator and hooking them parallel electrically too and claiming a continuous operation. However, I have been aware of failures only.  OF course we should try and do much more testings. 

EDIT:  In the video Robert33, he uses a series resistor (he calls it a low resistance, attenuator) this further reduces the wind down time...

Hi,

On 'heavier load' I mean as follows:  you use say a 12 Ohm power resistor as a load across the output of your alternator, the current draw will be 1 Amper if the alternator output voltage is around 12V. Now suppose you replace the 12 Ohm resistor with a 2 Ohm power resistor,  this is what I call a heavier load because the current draw goes up to at least 6 Amper provided the alternator keeps its output voltage at 12V as earlier.   

Some more notes:  it would be good for you to feel the torque by your gloved hand on the shaft this PMA must receive from the wind or from any other prime mover when it rotates at 950 RPM and you take the 12.7 Amper out of it.  Will the fan motor be able maintain that much torque on its shaft when the PMA is tied to it?  The only correct answer you can get is to test this and see for yourself. I understand you do not belive us, this is natural.

rgds,  Gyula

Thanks for your input,.....I'm already convinced that I was targeting the wrong PMA.....I'm thinking of a much more powerful PMA that uses slant core technology(Makes it coggless) and by using a 12 Volt, 5 amp. (60 Watts) halogen light bulb. Just hand cranking the PMA brings this light bulb to maximum power.

returnedintime:

Cogging has nothing to do with Lenz drag, you seem to worry about cogging but it can quasi completely be elliminated mainly by using odd - even ratio in the rotor - stator poles or possibly with the slant core technology you refer to but Lenz drag remains.  And in general the heavier load you apply to a generator,  the higher the Lenz drag becomes.

Good luck!

So if I understand you correctly,..you are stating that regardless how cogless a alternator is,...it is still going to have resistance present?