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### Author Topic: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?  (Read 40568 times)

#### Jack Noskills

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 346
##### Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« on: January 23, 2013, 12:01:09 PM »
Consider a resonant tank circuit, when tuned current at certain frequency does not go through. When power is collected using secondary coil back-EMF is induced to source which drives tank circuit off resonance lowering its impedance (inductive reactance) and more current begins to go through it, power gets used. When using high frequency then amount of wire used in secondary can be less and if such a short secondary coil is shorted then it has no effect on primary side. There is no DC resistance hence it has no effect, I have tested this several times using different coils and also Utkin explains it well. But the instant there is load Mr Lenz kicks in and resonance is destroyed in the tank and current begins to get through.

My idea is simple. What if we could create a second back-EMF which is exactly opposite (180 degrees) to first back EMF ? Then those two back EMF would cancel each other out and resonance is not destroyed. As resonance condition stays tank circuit blocks current coming from source and power is not used. Only reactive power that is running in the tank is copied to load.

Look at the schematic picture, there is tuned tank circuit and CW wound coil, then connected to it is second coil wound CCW and series capacitor to get series resonance. Secondary then goes over two primaries. When there is no load taken, the tank circuit is 'hot', it has all power there as reactive power and it effectively blocks current flow at the resonant frequency. The second primary is 'cold', it is only delivering little power to tank circuit. Next load is connected, what happens ? There are two primaries so both gets back-EMF into them. But now primaries are in opposite direction so we will get a 180 degrees phase shift and back-EMFs cancel each other out.

Input has to be sine wave, as tank circuits can only block sine waves at its resonant frequency. Any attempt to use spark gaps, half sine or square waves at source will not work when using this schematic.

Kind a simple idea isn't it, anyone care to take a closer look or has this been tried before ?

#### stprue

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1025
##### Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2013, 01:34:39 PM »
Hello,

What were your results?  Which direction is the secondary coil wound (cw or ccw) ?

#### Jack Noskills

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 346
##### Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2013, 01:40:22 PM »
Secondary direction does not matter. I am doing some testing and already have reached a point where connecting load has no effect on input. But my input trafo is not tuned. I use audio amplifier and I need to step up voltage first to get above 5 volts. Now my problem is that this stepup trafo is not at correct frequency and it uses power though there is no load. If I can make a tank circuit in that also then I should see some good results.

#### Hoppy

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4324
##### Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2013, 03:22:50 PM »
Secondary direction does not matter. I am doing some testing and already have reached a point where connecting load has no effect on input. But my input trafo is not tuned. I use audio amplifier and I need to step up voltage first to get above 5 volts. Now my problem is that this stepup trafo is not at correct frequency and it uses power though there is no load. If I can make a tank circuit in that also then I should see some good results.

Jack,

You appear to have already made some progress. Can you provide full details of your build, test and measurement setup and results, so that others may experiment along the same lines?

#### verpies

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3466
##### Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2013, 04:17:24 PM »
Look at the schematic picture, there is tuned tank circuit and CW wound coil, then connected to it is second coil wound CCW and series capacitor to get series resonance. Secondary then goes over two primaries.
You are neglecting the mutual inductance between W1 and W2.
There is a huge difference between behaviors of circuits depicted in Diag.1 and in Diag.2.

If you still think that your idea still has merit, let me know...

#### dllabarre

• Hero Member
• Posts: 750
##### Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2013, 04:30:31 PM »
Jack,
You appear to have already made some progress. Can you provide full details of your build, test and measurement setup and results, so that others may experiment along the same lines?

Jack

Can you provide details like the make/manufacturer of the transformer, inductance of each coil, kind and size of caps, how you added the secondary to this transformer.
If you made the transformer, how many turns, wire size, inductance, etc.

I have to say your schematic is very similar to what I'm working on also.

Don

#### forest

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3963
##### Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2013, 07:12:27 AM »
Jack

Good. If you really make it working then I must congratulate you, you are much better experimenter then me. I tried your setup with two 1:1 transformers without big results. Yet I believe you are on good track.

verpies
I appreciate your very valuable knowledge, but can you think outside of the box ? can you imagine a system without symmerical mutual inductance ? or can you imagine RCL circuit with almost no reactive power yet with real power ?
I think Jack would expain it better how it can be 200% efficient (minus resistance looses)

It took me years to understand simple scientific fact however ... because I have no proof (hard to find in garage) I would not tell you....yes, I know you will ridicule me now...

btw how faint and strong should be permanent magnet to levitate in Earth magnetic field ?

#### Jack Noskills

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 346
##### Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2013, 09:17:52 AM »
verpies, diagram 3 is the same I use, and it does not work if coils are separated from each other, or so it seems. I was unable to find resonance in the tank circuit when they were connected as CW+CCW. With CW+CW I could see resonance, so it matters much how the coils are wound. I got it working using series caduceous winding but bifilar might also work, haven't tested that though.

dllbarre, I am using M-088 nanoperm toroid from magnetec (80000 perm), caps are 220 nf and 110 nf, PC is connected to audio amplifier via phone jack and I use goldwave audio editor (free from www.goldwave.com) to do sine sweeps. I got halogen lamps so I can see if there is resonance when I do the sweep. Number of knots does not matter, I use enough so I can get resonance below 20 kHz.

I am using two toroids, first one is just a step up trafo which I use to drive the second. I use caduceous primary and caduceous secondary in the step up, enamelled wire maybe 0.75 mm thick. With that I can get easily over 200 watts out even at 20 kHz when using it as normal trafo, my audio amp can put out 260 watts. When I used normal windings I could get power below 10 kHz only. Above that output coil started to slow itself down and output power went down. PC + audio amp is much better config for testing compared to Don's NST, I don't actually have to know what I am doing lol, just sweep.

Yesterday I was able to tune the stepup trafo quite close to output trafo, not perfect but I think points are within 50 Hz, sweet spot is around 1700 Hz now. I should use lower permeability core to get higher frequency but I don't have any. When there is no load connected watt meter showed 33 watts being used. If I crank up the volume more power gets used so must not over do it, stepup tank seems to be leaking. Then I connected 40 watt bulb to load, I got maybe 20-30 watts worth of light and watt meter still showed 33 watts. There is sound which seems to come from the step up trafo and it does not change when power is taken. So this seems to work as it should. For output coil I used bifilar wound all over toroid as it is energy amplifying coil. Since load has no effect on input it gives more power to output. Now I have made bigger output coil, I used 9 strand Litz wire (10 meters * 9) for that and I need to do some tests with it using multi bifilar windings.

I am still missing resonant rise in the source and I got few ideas I can try. I am thinking two bifilar coils interleaved using figure 8 wire wound in caduceous style as primary. So basically just a series caduceous coil using figure 8 wire, I should be able to find resonance point using that since I can find it using caduceous using one wire. There are few options how to connect those four wires, lets see if I can find a sweet spot somewhere.

So here summary of current state and some plans for next. If anyone thinks along the same lines then start experimenting and share what you find so we can get this thing going.

#### Jack Noskills

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 346
##### Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2013, 10:08:01 AM »
verpies, just remembered that inductance of caduceous coil is zero, this means that mutual inductance between W1 and W2 is also zero in your picture. When connected like this it is possible to tune system so there are hot and cold coils as I have explained, and testing confirmed it. So yes, I do think this has some merit now. What do you think ?

#### verpies

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3466
##### Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2013, 11:20:19 AM »
...can you think outside of the box ?
What box?  I can think about what I have experienced and measured and I have not done that with everything.

can you imagine a system without symmetrical mutual inductance ?
You have to be more precise. What system? ...a transformer?

or can you imagine RCL circuit with almost no reactive power yet with real power ?
Again, you have to be more precise. Power measured where? At the inductor, capacitor, resistor or the stimulating power source, if there is any...

I think Jack would explain it better how it can be 200% efficient (minus resistance looses)
I jack shows O/I>1 measurements or a selfrunner or even a unidirectional induction than I will be interested.
It would not matter if the device contradicted some widely accepted theory.

It took me years to understand simple scientific fact however ... because I have no proof (hard to find in garage) I would not tell you....yes, I know you will ridicule me now...
If you look at the history of my posts, you will notice that I never ridicule anyone.

BTW: How faint and strong should be permanent magnet to levitate in Earth magnetic field ?
A magnet would not levitate. It would flip and become attracted to one of the Earth's magnetic poles.

#### verpies

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3466
##### Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2013, 12:15:02 PM »
Just remembered that inductance of caduceus coil is zero
If by "caduceus" you mean two layer bucking coils, then the schematic should be adjusted as shown below.
If you mean two layer aiding coils then the former schematics and arguments still apply.
The coil configuration is denoted by the dot convention.

...this means that mutual inductance between W1 and W2 is also zero in your picture. When connected like this it is possible to tune system so there are hot and cold coils as I have explained, and testing confirmed it. So yes, I do think this has some merit now. What do you think ?
In bucking coil configuration the magnetic flux of one half of the coil opposes the flux of the other half. In an ideal bucking coil the two fluxes cancel each other and the result is zero net flux and zero self-inductance. In real coils there is always some leakage flux and leakage inductance between the two winding halves and if the winding does not span the whole circumference of the core, the flux leakage is increased (see the attachment for an illustration of this effect in a single layer toroidal winding).  Flux leakage also is exaggerated in windings with odd number of layers (1, 3, 5...) asymmetrical windings or in high-pitch windings.  There is also a very small interwinding capacitance that becomes significant in the MHz range.

Anyway, because ideal bucking coils have no effective self-inductance, then they cannot form an LCR circuit. They can only form an RC circuit, because a coil without self-inductance acts as a resistor.  Series RC circuit does not exhibit any resonance, only high pass filtering (parallel RC - low pass).

Also, since ideal bucking coils have no effective self-inductance they also have no mutual-inductance (one without the other, on a common core, would be an anomaly).
Lack of mutual-inductance is good between W1 and W2 but very bad between W1 and W3 as well as between W2 and W3, because without mutual-inductance no power can be transferred to W3 according to conventional theory

If you are getting power transfer to W3 anyway, then:
1) The coils are not in bucking configuration (e.g. one W1 dot is moved)
2) The coils are imperfect and have leakage (causing mutual and self-inductance)
3) There is an anomaly worth investigating (mutual-inductance without self-inductance)

Now, don't get excited about pt.3 before you eliminate the possibility of pt.1 and pt.2

#### Jack Noskills

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 346
##### Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2013, 01:17:43 PM »
I use series caduceus so there is start, middle and end points. Enamelled wires go side by side and no layers, one round for whole toroid. I counted 72 knots. Then secondary on top of caduceus, so far tested plain and bifilar but cannot compare them as number of turns were not equal (I got no meters). Parallel cap is between middle point and start and series cap is between end and source, as depicted in the picture I made. I got resonance point, my halogen lamp dimms and then it comes back to light again slowly so it is not RC filter. Just learned what RC filter is, thanks for that. I have seen this few times when testing other coil configurations and did not understand then.

pt1 is eliminated, but don't know about pt2. How should the circuit behave to eliminate pt2 ? I can take power from it without any change occurring in source, is this enough or is something else needed ?

#### verpies

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3466
##### Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2013, 02:33:56 PM »
How should the circuit behave to eliminate pt2 ?
a) You can measure the self-inductance of W1 with a decent multimeter (the low-quality ones do not have this function)
b) You can measure mutual-inductance by applying e.g. sinewave AC to W1 and measure if any AC voltage is induced at W2. If voltage is induced at W2 then mutual-inductance is not zero.

Both without any capacitors.

#### elementSix

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 349
##### Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2013, 09:14:31 PM »
Hey jacknoskills,  Have you read this page or tryed this circuit schematic???

http://tarielkapanadze.ru/science-eng.htm

here is their circuit diagram..

#### verpies

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3466
##### Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2013, 12:16:19 AM »
Have you read this page or tryed this circuit schematic???
I can't open the link.
Are those air cored coils?