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Author Topic: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?  (Read 29495 times)

Offline 27Bubba

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2013, 01:51:45 AM »
@Verpies

I was able open it just by clicking on the link..

http://tarielkapanadze.ru/science-eng.htm

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2013, 01:51:45 AM »

Offline verpies

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2013, 01:58:14 AM »
I was able open it just by clicking on the link..
Then I have some kind of local DNS problem.

Offline 27Bubba

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2013, 02:03:13 AM »
This may work for you .. Try the ( http://tarielkapanadze.ru ) then click on "Getting free energy scientifically". ;)

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2013, 02:03:13 AM »
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Offline elementSix

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2013, 03:11:55 AM »
I can't open the link.
Are those air cored coils?
I think its Aircored, or ferrit.  Im not sure, but I can only post the page as text.  So the equations are missing, they are in jpegs.
Try it with a sine wave also.

  Here is some info from it...
We are interested in the third variant.
In this variant of the R = 100 Ohm, L = 40 mH и C = 5 mF.
Resonance frequency f = 331 Hz
Critical resistance Rcr= 44.721 Ohm
In the task at the specified parameters - the amplitude of the voltage Ubc equal to 125 volts.
If instead of R = 100 Ом take R = 50 Ohm, get the amplitude Ubc equal to 500 volts.
Lovers of strong sensations can take R = 44.73 Ohms, and get 12600 volts.
That in 100 times more input voltage and reactive energy circuit is increased to 10000 times.
Thus the phenomenon can be called energy resonance, or "resonance in resonance" by Tariel Kapanadze.

Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2013, 08:59:23 AM »
verpies, I don't have meters so can do measurements by taking power only. If caps are removed effect is gone. I can say that my caduceous winding is pretty good so I don't think it is leakage flux. Q factor is about 10 frinkinhoivens.

Just to get on the map, you are saying that there should not be RLC circuit in circuit like figure 3 (no resonance point), only RC hence no power transfer to W3. If there is resonance point only then there can be power transfer to W3 ?
 
Well, when using caduceous style winding I got power transfer to W3 which should not happen.
 
Yesterday I made caduceous winding using figure 8 wire. Wire itself is stranded and it has plastic insulation. When winding was ready I had two caduceous coils, one in the black wire and second in the blue wire. First I used just one caduceous and placed cap there, I got resonance about 1300 Hz. Then I connected them in series: end of blue wire connected to start of black wire to make the middle point. Then cap C between middle point and start of blue wire and then series cap C/2 between end of black wire and source. I got resonance still at about 1300 Hz, no change. In fact I think I got two resonance points, the other was just below 2000 Hz. Did not look above 2000 Hz though. Have just tested it quickly and need to play more, maybe I made a mistake. But if true, then I wonder what happens if I would drive it using those two resonance frequencies ? Hmm. obviously my tank at source would stop working but maybe there is a workaround, less power in one frequency or something like that. Dunno, just throwing out some ideas. I bet that if there would be more caduceous cols in series there would be more resonance points.
 
elementsix, I use only coils, caps and sinewave input. I got some diodes but I have learned that only thing I can do with them is to generate heat.
 
Is there anyone who could test this setup ? Ferrite does not matter, number of knots does not matter, value of caps does not matter and wire to use does not matter. Just double check if you can find resonance as there should not be any. If circuit is still RLC then I think there something usefull going on and worth investigating

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2013, 08:59:23 AM »
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Offline verpies

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2013, 02:27:01 PM »
I don't have meters so can do measurements by taking power only. If caps are removed effect is gone.
During this measurement the goal is not to transfer power or induce voltage at W3 but to transfer power between W1 and W2 or induce voltage in W2 by supplying W1 with AC.

I can say that my caduceous winding is pretty good so I don't think it is leakage flux. Q factor is about 10 frinkinhoivens.
Curious units ;)
The near field of even perfectly wound coils can be significant because of the Biot-Savart law, so they can surprise you.  The whole purpose of this measurement without caps is to determine how much interaction happens between W1 and W2.

Just to get on the map, you are saying that there should not be RLC circuit in circuit like figure 3 (no resonance point), only RC hence no power transfer to W3.
Not that there should not be, but that there cannot be an RLC circuit if L is zero.  A coil with no self-inductance behaves like a resistor.

If there is resonance point only then there can be power transfer to W3 ?
Well, when using caduceous style winding I got power transfer to W3 which should not happen.
Power transfer to W3 by near-fields is not surprising.  What would be surprising is if you had power transfer between W1 and W3  as well as W2 and W3 but no power transfer between W1 and W2.
 

Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2013, 03:10:19 PM »
During this measurement the goal is not to transfer power or induce voltage at W3 but to transfer power between W1 and W2 or induce voltage in W2 by supplying W1 with AC.

The near field of even perfectly wound coils can be significant because of the Biot-Savart law, so they can surprise you.  The whole purpose of this measurement without caps is to determine how much interaction happens between W1 and W2.

Not that there should not be, but that there cannot be an RLC circuit if L is zero.  A coil with no self-inductance behaves like a resistor.
Power transfer to W3 by near-fields is not surprising.  What would be surprising is if you had power transfer between W1 and W3  as well as W2 and W3 but no power transfer between W1 and W2.

Removed caps, AC into W1 and there is power in W2, how could there not be dont know. Watt meter showed about 30 watts when load was connected and about 22 watts without load. When caps are in place watt meter showed 33 watts with or without load. If only I could make a proper tank circuit in my step up trafo then I might see something usefull. But it leaks if I push it too hard. I got maybe 5 volts but lots of amps, should there be more volts to make a better tank, any ideas anyone ?
 
What I think I see is that there is power transfer between W1 and W3 only, that is the whole idea. When load is taken then it makes two back EMFs 180 degrees apart which cancel out. There should be two currents in the primary, lots of power in W1 but little power in W2. Is this what is really going on I don't know and any help to solve this would be nice. I don't have any decent equipment to go further, I might get lucky with my stepup tank but don't count on it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2013, 03:10:19 PM »
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Offline forest

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2013, 05:21:25 PM »
In Steinmetz times they tend to understand that EMF is a force like name suggest. In other thread I posted the explanation which is Newton third law , everywhere. Does it ring for you ? Famous "ring twice" notice by Ed Leedscalnin. You have it right Jack.

verpies

Sorry,I cannot answer your questions. I can only describe simple experiment which could be done and is today possible because there is a method to produce thin strips of high power neodymium magnets and thin strips of superconducting material. Just make light powerful magnet strip and cover around by superconducting shield (or maybe the opposite way) . Then put it in low temperature (to allow superconduction and Miller effect) . It has to be really light but as light as to be able to be pulled by Earth field (with a strength of magnetosphere as supposed by science). If it would levitate then it would be a proof magnetic field is responsible for gravitation.

Offline Tito L. Oracion

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2013, 01:09:21 AM »
Consider a resonant tank circuit, when tuned current at certain frequency does not go through. When power is collected using secondary coil back-EMF is induced to source which drives tank circuit off resonance lowering its impedance (inductive reactance) and more current begins to go through it, power gets used. When using high frequency then amount of wire used in secondary can be less and if such a short secondary coil is shorted then it has no effect on primary side. There is no DC resistance hence it has no effect, I have tested this several times using different coils and also Utkin explains it well. But the instant there is load Mr Lenz kicks in and resonance is destroyed in the tank and current begins to get through.
 
My idea is simple. What if we could create a second back-EMF which is exactly opposite (180 degrees) to first back EMF ? Then those two back EMF would cancel each other out and resonance is not destroyed. As resonance condition stays tank circuit blocks current coming from source and power is not used. Only reactive power that is running in the tank is copied to load.
 
Look at the schematic picture, there is tuned tank circuit and CW wound coil, then connected to it is second coil wound CCW and series capacitor to get series resonance. Secondary then goes over two primaries. When there is no load taken, the tank circuit is 'hot', it has all power there as reactive power and it effectively blocks current flow at the resonant frequency. The second primary is 'cold', it is only delivering little power to tank circuit. Next load is connected, what happens ? There are two primaries so both gets back-EMF into them. But now primaries are in opposite direction so we will get a 180 degrees phase shift and back-EMFs cancel each other out.
 
Input has to be sine wave, as tank circuits can only block sine waves at its resonant frequency. Any attempt to use spark gaps, half sine or square waves at source will not work when using this schematic.
 
Kind a simple idea isn't it, anyone care to take a closer look or has this been tried before ?


The thing will immediately go into balance and the momentum is dead. the result is nothing. :(

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2013, 01:09:21 AM »
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Offline forest

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2013, 01:25:53 AM »
oops sorry, I pressed Post too fast, this effect is of course no Miller but Meissner

Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2013, 12:09:42 PM »
My best result so far is 50 watts in and I got maybe 30-40 watts worth of light out. Watt meter showed 50 watts consumed regardless if there was load or no load. If I crank up the power level it is reflected in watt meter, with or without load. This means that my tank circuit is not blocking efficiently enough.
 
Seems that toroid shape is not optimum for this setup, I just cannot get the tank circuit to block enough power. So next thing to try is to use solenoid form. There needs to be two separate coils on coil former so they can be moved. One is CW and the other CCW, caps connected as shown in the first post of this thread. Then secondary over both coils. I am not sure if I try this, but I write down steps how it should be done.
 
1. wind solenoid form coil on a ferrite toroid CW and add parallel capacitor to form a tank circuit. Now you got ferrite and air cored solenoid. Find resonance point and check how much power it can block if possible.
2. wind second similar coil but CCW and connect it with first coil, add series capacitor. Put these on PVC tube so they can be moved easily. Check that resonance can still be found. Check the effect of coil position by moving one coil. There is magnetic interaction between coils and position does matter.
3. If steps 1 and 2 worked then wind secondary on top of both primaries, direction does not matter. There will be capacitance between secondary and two primaries so check that resonance is still there or if it moved. Best option is to use second tube which can be moved on top of primaries and wind secondary coil on that.
4. If steps 1-3 were ok now you can take all the reactive power you got in the primary tank circuit. Power circulating there is a function of voltage and frequency. If there is a resonant rise occurring in the tank then very little current is needed to drive it.
 
No diodes and no spark gaps are needed, but sinewave input is a must. High voltage is not required for prototype testing. Ferrite is not needed if you can use signal generator and MHz frequencies, air core will be fine. But here I think Q factor of the coils will play important role. I have experience from nanoperm ferrites only.
 
Can anyone join in and contribute by doing some testing ? Perhaps get some scope shots so we all could learn something ?

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2013, 12:09:42 PM »
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Offline Void

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2013, 04:02:42 PM »
It seems your circuit isn't the Smith/Kapanadze secret, as they are supposed to have small power in and big power out, but you are reporting big power in and small power out, which is what any inefficient circuit or inefficient transformer will do. ;)  You can get some different effects by connecting capacitors and inductors in various configurations, but unless you are putting small power in and getting bigger power out, you are not doing anything like Smith/Kapanadze.  :D

Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2013, 09:06:22 AM »
My point is that it has part of the effect but something is still missing. Toroid is closed looped core and that is why the tank circuit is leaking. When using tube then those two primary coils would not affect each other via core, only magnetically. Then there would be hot tank circuit (CW) which has reactive power and cold series resonance circuit (CCW) which has close to zero current flowing as the tank circuit blocks current flow. As secondary is over both primaries there will be two back EMFs that cancel out. Hence resonance is not destroyed and there would be resonant rise occurring in the tank. If this would happen in the tank then only little power would be needed to maintain resonance. So it would work like Don Smith says.
 
Or is this too simple to understand ?

Offline Void

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2013, 09:53:49 PM »
So it would work like Don Smith says.

I have watched many of the Don Smith videos and read through his PDF file, and I don't recall him
saying anything like that. I only ever recall Don talking about pulling extra energy in from surrounding electrons
or something along those lines. Don also mentioned that he discovered how to tap the energy of permanent magnets,
but he was pretty tight lipped about that. Anyway, if you are not getting more power out than you are putting in, it is
not anything like Smith's or Kapanadze's generators. What you have is an inefficient transformer.  :)  Smith and Kapanadze
were claiming big over unity results. First you need to get more power out than being put in. Only then you can say you
have something that is anything like Smith or Kapanadze.

Or is this too simple to understand?  ;D




« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 03:39:37 AM by Void »

Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Is this the Smith/Kapanadze secret ?
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2013, 04:24:15 PM »
I was not able to make strong enough block using tubes so I changed back to toroid shape.
 
I was also unable to make strong enough tank using capacitors on toroidal core so I decided to try using coils only. I made two identical toroids, first one is parallel caduceous and second one is series caduceous. Idea is that parallel caduceous passes current without slowing it down and series caduceous blocks it, I am not using capacitors. I got good enough blocking between 3 kHz and 6 kHz. If frequency was higher then tank begun to leak. I used 0.7 mm diameter wire, 0.31  diameter was not good as it started to leak at even at 3 kHz. Secondary coil is the wrapped over both toroids so back-EMF gets into both caduceous coils at the same time.

I got OU now but not too much. I got 12 volt 5 watt halogen on the stepup primary side, output of the audio amp is maybe 5 volts. I get maybe 35 watts of light at the output while the halogen is dimm, my watt meter shows 22 watts. No idea what is the power going through halogen. Next I removed the caduceous trafo and used only stepup trafo for comparison. I tried to use same amount of light at the output and result was that halogen was now much brighter and watt meter showed 39 watts.
 
Output now affects input which should not be. This is due to unequal coils so that back-EMFs that get induced were not exact opposite, but it is good enough to see some nice results. I should have used capacitors but don't have suitable valued caps so I decided to try a prototype and it was successfull showing a proof of concept that worked.
 
It is now clear how this should be done, the picture I made on the first post shows scematic but there must be separate cores for the primaries and then secondary that combines them. Coils must be identical and caps should be used. Toroids have poles, I think they should be placed so that there is NS - SN combination.
This will work using tubes too, but I did not have proper gear to make it happen.
 
If you look at Don Smith's schematics then you will notice that this setup is exactly as Don draw it: two coils center tapped, one has parallel capacitor and the other one has series cap. Except it was reversed in his pictures, output section is infact the input. He put his design out in the open, to crack it you must first understand what is going on and what you are trying to achieve. If you blindly copy you will never get it to work.
 
If you can take a look, try to accomplish step one: make a parallel tank ciruit that is strong enough to block current flow on the level you can push it. You can use high voltage, but this does not need high voltage to work. You can use ferrite or air core. If you can make this, then you will get OU by adding the second part. Is this just low power or high power I cannot say. I think it is worth a try to check this out to completion, can I get some help here ?

 

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