Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 894455
  • *Total Topics: 15730
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 5
  • *Guests: 13
  • *Total: 18

Author Topic: Electron Reversing Device  (Read 67315 times)

Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5236
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2013, 11:29:30 PM »
.99 Quote:
Although the current may be greatly magnified, the power or energy is not, due to phase changes between the voltage and current through the output diodes.

Dosnt this some how say ohm's law dosnt apply here?
The other thing is,if there is no extra power,why do the LED's get brighter?
I must admit though,it seems to be the only answer that fits so far.

Im still trying to get my head around being able to raise the voltage over a resistor without the current increasing at the same time?.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2013, 11:29:30 PM »

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2013, 11:35:21 PM »
Hmm.... I've not been able to reproduce the effect.

I used 1n914 diodes, green LEDs, and in each position where there is a meter, I put a 1 ohm current viewing resistor instead. Looking across the CVRs with my meters set to millivolt DC range, I am always seeing more, or the same, current in the M1 and M2 meters than in the M3 and M4 meters. So I disconnected the CVRs and put the meters in place as ammeters.... still the same. The direct ammeter readings agree with the voltage drop across the CVRs.

This is using my modded oscillator, going from about 1.5 kHz to about 35 kHz.

I have not scoped the waveforms yet.



Offline poynt99

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3585
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2013, 11:39:12 PM »
I've also done a power dissipation test on the 4 "input" components vs. the 4 "output" components (4 resistors and 4 diodes), and the "output" side is dissipating quite a bit more power than the "input" side. But this in itself does not indicate anything unusual going on, it's just indicating that there is better power transfer to the "output" side components.

To truly get an idea if the circuit is somehow exhibiting excess energy at the "output" side, one would have to account for all power in the circuit, including what the FG is using, and what the battery is supplying.

If the following does not equal 0, then there might be something there:

PBAT - [PFG + P(input side) + P(output side)]

This isn't so easy to do however, but there may be a simpler circuit able to demonstrate the same effect, AND be easy to compute the powers.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2013, 11:39:12 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2013, 11:55:15 PM »
A neat video from a serious "Tesla" coiler, on how to make one form of pancake coil. This guy has a veritable historical coil museum in his house!

tinman, how did you make yours?

Interesting commentary he has at the 44:20 mark ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiCoYs-ojO0

It would seem to be very simple to put a hand crank on his platen so he would have an easier time of actually turning it.... and he's not winding a bifilar coil, either, is he? So since it's not bifilar and just a flat pancake coil.... why does he mention Tesla?

Still, interesting video, and it's always nice to see all of those old electrotherapy coils.

Beware of the nonsense and baloney..... but by all means, continue to experiment with electrotherapy.
(insert tongue in cheek emoticon here)

We all have our idols.... and in the final end they all have feet of clay.

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #64 on: January 14, 2013, 12:08:41 AM »
Tinman and all:

I think that Poynt got it fundamentally right.  You have the oscillator 'tickling' an LC resonator that is the pancake coil.  The LC resonator has the diodes in the LC loop, and they are the primary agents (along with the current sensing resistors inside the multimeters) that are burning off the power in the LC resonator.

The LC resonator is a notch filter, and that means that at a certain external stimulation frequency you get the maximum amplitude from the LC resonator.  When the external stimulation frequency is the same as the natural resonant frequency of the LC resonator (a.k.a. tank circuit) you get the maximum voltage and current waveforms in the resonator.  When your external stimulation frequency is either below or above the natural frequency of the LC resonator, the resonator will still respond and resonate at the external frequency, but at a lower amplitude.

Likewise, Poynt also mentioned that the external stimulation frequency may be a sub-harmonic of the natural resonant frequency, and you should see a similar response pattern to what was mentioned above.

The fact that the LC resonator is a "filter" with different responses at different external stimulation frequencies explains how Tinman was observing different amplitudes as the oscillator frequency changed.

On an energy level, when the oscillator first starts up, at first the LC resonator starts to absorb energy and the amplitudes increase cycle over cycle.  Within a very short time, a balance is achieved where the power being pumped into the LC resonator from the external oscillator is being burned off in the two LEDs.  That would imply that if you replace the LEDs by ordinary 0.6-volt diodes, that you would observe higher amplitudes in the LC resonator.  Less power would be burned off in the diodes, hence the LC resonator can resonate at a higher amplitude to restore balance again.

A simple mechanical analogy is a bell that rings at 1000 Hz being struck by a tiny hammer at 900, 1000, or 1100 Hz.  When the tiny hammer strikes the bell at 1000 Hz you will get the maximum amplitude out of the bell.  The "diodes" in this case would be the hysteresis of the metal of the bell; the metal of the bell gets hot as it burns off the energy supplied by the tiny hammer.

Finally, there is the ever present "cult of resonance" on the free energy forums.  This is a good example illustrating how resonance is "just there," it doesn't bring any special value to the table.  Resonance is just a means of storing energy - the energy sloshes back and forth between the electric field and the magnetic field in an LC oscillator.  It's not magic and it's not a source of extra energy.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #64 on: January 14, 2013, 12:08:41 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5236
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #65 on: January 14, 2013, 12:22:37 AM »
I've also done a power dissipation test on the 4 "input" components vs. the 4 "output" components (4 resistors and 4 diodes), and the "output" side is dissipating quite a bit more power than the "input" side. But this in itself does not indicate anything unusual going on, it's just indicating that there is better power transfer to the "output" side components.

To truly get an idea if the circuit is somehow exhibiting excess energy at the "output" side, one would have to account for all power in the circuit, including what the FG is using, and what the battery is supplying.

If the following does not equal 0, then there might be something there:

PBAT - [PFG + P(input side) + P(output side)]

This isn't so easy to do however, but there may be a simpler circuit able to demonstrate the same effect, AND be easy to compute the powers.
The problem with measuring the input to the SG from the battery,is that the SG uses 32ma at 12.5 volts befor anything is hooked up to the output side.So where already useing more power with out a load hooked to it.
But i did notice that the SG's draw from the battery starts going down once you go over 17KHz,and keeps droping until i hit the max frequency on the SG output-all while the current rises in meters m3 and m4

I did quickly try two other air core coils,one from a MOT and one from an old project-niether worked.
Im guessing this is because they have no capacitance.

Do you get the same effect from your sim .99 if you remove the 50p cap?

I also must admit that i am unsure how you can disipate more power on the output than you are consuming on the input?
To do this,wouldnt the components have to be over 100% efficient themself?

Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5236
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #66 on: January 14, 2013, 12:36:36 AM »
Hmm.... I've not been able to reproduce the effect.

I used 1n914 diodes, green LEDs, and in each position where there is a meter, I put a 1 ohm current viewing resistor instead. Looking across the CVRs with my meters set to millivolt DC range, I am always seeing more, or the same, current in the M1 and M2 meters than in the M3 and M4 meters. So I disconnected the CVRs and put the meters in place as ammeters.... still the same. The direct ammeter readings agree with the voltage drop across the CVRs.

This is using my modded oscillator, going from about 1.5 kHz to about 35 kHz.

I have not scoped the waveforms yet.
Hi TK
If you are unable to read any capacitance on your coil,would it be worth adding 30 or 40 pf cap to the coil?
This may make all the difference.
All 4 of my DMM's that are the same,and two others i have all say i have 49.46/7 pf capacitance in the coil.
Also the system dose not work with any other coil of the standard kind.
I do have a smaller BPC which i will try on the system today.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #66 on: January 14, 2013, 12:36:36 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5880
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #67 on: January 14, 2013, 12:37:29 AM »
Hey Tinman

I watched your vid. You had shown that there is a copper washer in the center of the coil. Might that not represent a shorted winding? Like if you have a transformer, then wind 1 heavy turn and connect its ends to each other.

This might be a heavy loss.

Mags

Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5236
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #68 on: January 14, 2013, 12:50:38 AM »
Hey Tinman

I watched your vid. You had shown that there is a copper washer in the center of the coil. Might that not represent a shorted winding? Like if you have a transformer, then wind 1 heavy turn and connect its ends to each other.

This might be a heavy loss.

Mags
Not sure i follow yoyu there Mag's?
Shorted to what?
There is no continuity from the wire to the washer-if that is what you mean?
The washer was also glued in place with epoxy,so has an insilation coating around it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #68 on: January 14, 2013, 12:50:38 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5880
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #69 on: January 14, 2013, 12:59:58 AM »
Not sure i follow yoyu there Mag's?
Shorted to what?
There is no continuity from the wire to the washer-if that is what you mean?
The washer was also glued in place with epoxy,so has an insilation coating around it.

The coils will produce magnetic fields as you pulse it. Those magnetic fields will induce a current in the washer, and not for free.  ;)

Think about a transformer, a step down. Your coils are the primary input and the washer is your output secondary, like in a welding transformer. Well your secondary is shorted all of the time.

Anyways, it would be interesting to see if there is a difference with or without the washer.


Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5236
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #70 on: January 14, 2013, 01:11:26 AM »
The coils will produce magnetic fields as you pulse it. Those magnetic fields will induce a current in the washer, and not for free.  ;)

Think about a transformer, a step down. Your coils are the primary input and the washer is your output secondary, like in a welding transformer. Well your secondary is shorted all of the time.

Anyways, it would be interesting to see if there is a difference with or without the washer.
3 thing's
1st-i cant get the washer out without distroying the coil,as all the wire is glued in with super glue.
2nd-the washer may also be acting as a bucking coil of sort's.
3-I also think that because the magnetic fields being produced are virtical and not opposed to each other,there would be little to no effect there.
 i am going to modify the SG today to gain a higher frequency,and see what happen's there.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #70 on: January 14, 2013, 01:11:26 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5880
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #71 on: January 14, 2013, 01:17:18 AM »
3 thing's
1st-i cant get the washer out without distroying the coil,as all the wire is glued in with super glue.
2nd-the washer may also be acting as a bucking coil of sort's.
3-I also think that because the magnetic fields being produced are virtical and not opposed to each other,there would be little to no effect there.
 i am going to modify the SG today to gain a higher frequency,and see what happen's there.

Was just making an observation. ;)   There are Tesla coils that use pancake windings as a primary, with the secondary in the middle.

TK's coil might not work the same without the washer in the middle. ;)

Mags

Offline poynt99

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3585
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #72 on: January 14, 2013, 01:28:20 AM »
.99 Quote:
Although the current may be greatly magnified, the power or energy is not, due to phase changes between the voltage and current through the output diodes.

Dosnt this some how say ohm's law dosnt apply here?
Not at all. But with alternating currents, the phase relationship between voltage and current comes into play. For instance, when driving an inductive load such as you are, the circuit currents and voltages become shifted in phase. Now Ohm's law doesn't apply in the strictest sense, because we can not measure an average or even an RMS voltage and current and multiply them together to obtain power, because this would only give us the apparent power, not the real power. To get the real power, the current and voltage need to be multiplied sample by sample, then averaged.

Quote
The other thing is,if there is no extra power,why do the LED's get brighter?
I must admit though,it seems to be the only answer that fits so far.
If you were able to monitor the power delivered by the battery, the power dissipated by the FG and input circuit, you would most likely see that as the LED's become brighter, there will be a corresponding shift in power from the battery, FG, or input circuit, accounting for the increased dissipation in the LED's.

Offline poynt99

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3585
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #73 on: January 14, 2013, 01:41:12 AM »
tinman,

What is the DC resistance of your pancake coil?

It would be nice to know its inductance as well.

Offline DreamThinkBuild

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 569
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #74 on: January 14, 2013, 01:53:53 AM »
Hi Tinman,

Thanks for sharing this circuit.

Is there some kind of capacitive coupling going on in the coil?

If you have a ferrite rod place it in the center and see what happens to the output.

Hi All,

I confess, I cheat a little when it comes to making pancakes actually ribboncake. :)

The easiest way is with ribbon cable, get a toilet paper tube make a slit down the side stick the ribbon through and roll then tape. If you need it bi-filar stick two ribbons on top of each other tape then roll. This may not be the Tesla approved method but it works for me.

Pictured is 26Awg, 100ft, approx: 60turns, 36 strand ribbon cake (not very straight in picture due to me messing around with it).

 

OneLink