Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 894450
  • *Total Topics: 15730
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 3
  • *Guests: 10
  • *Total: 13

Author Topic: Electron Reversing Device  (Read 67312 times)

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2013, 09:48:28 PM »
Indeed,

It would seem that all who are discussing this circuit are missing something.

Think!

All?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2013, 09:48:28 PM »

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2013, 09:57:28 PM »
Well tinman seems fairly sharp on all this and Tinsel Koala is no dummy so how about some hints as to what you think is going on.   Pancake coil picking up power from the environment ?  I don't think it would pick up enough to account for the additional power unless it's resonating something to pull that in.

The "hints" have been given by .99 and by me...... when driven by a symmetrical waveshape the meters as used "should" average the signals properly to zero. However the driving signals, or the circuit's response to them,  are not symmetrical but rather change their symmetry in various ways according to the p-p voltage and frequency of the drive.

There is no need to search for or postulate sources of "additional power" unless and until such additional power is demonstrated to exist. The only "anomaly" that I might be seeing so far is that the LEDs seem -- subjectively -- to get brighter than they should be capable of getting without blowing. As I've said before I have no instrumental way of testing my impression of the brightness... yet.

The DMM readings are interesting, but surely the principle of Okham's Razor applies here: simple explanations that do not "multiply entities" must be considered and eliminated before any more unusual explanations are entertained.

So... again.... please let's not get overexcited in _either direction_. Not adversarial, not overly enthusiastic.... just some dispassionate examinations of circuit... and measurement.... behaviour.

Offline poynt99

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3585
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2013, 10:13:27 PM »
All?
I am waiting for more input from tinman before I offer an explanation and to correct his error.

I've not yet seen anyone explain the error tinman is making (nor make mention that there is one) regarding his assumptions as stated in his videos, so I can only assume that no one else realizes that there is one.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2013, 10:13:27 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5236
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2013, 11:46:30 PM »
I am waiting for more input from tinman before I offer an explanation and to correct his error.

I've not yet seen anyone explain the error tinman is making (nor make mention that there is one) regarding his assumptions as stated in his videos, so I can only assume that no one else realizes that there is one.
Hi poynt99 and all
There is every chance that i am makeing an error that has clearly been over looked by my self.
This is the very reason i have open sorced the circuit,so as others can replicate and test it them self.

My assumptions in my video are being made as to what i see my equipment telling me.
Your schematic you drew poynt99 is correct for one measurment position-but there has been many.

If i understand what the DMM's are telling me is that they are measuring the current in one direction,then subtracting the current in the opposite direction and giving us the remainder ?

The reason i found this circuit interesting is that never have i seen a DMM go negative in curent flow on any other circuit i have built-including SSG's.

Here is the circuit i am useing for the wave generator.
http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n492/duneraider69/teslatpulsecircuit_zpsf9e6cd79.jpg

So please,if you can see an error-let us know.

Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5236
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2013, 12:23:56 AM »
This is my latest video on another test i have carried out.
Here i am useing electron flow to show how i have set up this small test.
I also use blocking diodes so as i can direct the flow of electron,s.
Also note that we also have a voltage drop accross each diode of .5 volt's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVZCTx2WlxI

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2013, 12:23:56 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline e2matrix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1868
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2013, 12:38:53 AM »
Thanks tinman for sharing this very interesting circuit.  That observation is what I was most fascinated with - the current going negative under those conditions.   Tinsel also did a vid and showed the same odd effect.  Sounds to me like negative resistance or some sort of oddity that doesn't fit traditional electrical theory.  I'd like to hear what anyone has to say on that effect.  I plan on trying this circuit.   I still don't know what it is poynt99 thinks we are missing but hopefully he'll get back here soon since you've now replied.  poynt99 and Tinsel are some hard cookies to slip anything by on as they always seem to find some way of explaining away the 'magic' - LOL   But I guess it's good if we are really missing something to have some members around that can figure out what's causing an effect.   I've got a meter that can read to 200 Khz (Fluke 87 model III) so if that is part of the problem with what they are thinking maybe this will help.   But from what I saw in your vids it seemed your o-scope verified what the meters were seeing. 

Offline poynt99

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3585
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2013, 01:12:27 AM »
My assumptions in my video are being made as to what i see my equipment telling me.
Your instruments are telling you the correct numbers. However, there is nothing anomalous about the readings you are getting, other than a slight difference between the current meters.

Quote
Your schematic you drew poynt99 is correct for one measurment position-but there has been many.
As per the note on the schematic, this is from your video entitled "tesla meter circuit test 2". I suspect this particular setup is sufficiently representative to cover all issues.

Quote
If i understand what the DMM's are telling me is that they are measuring the current in one direction,then subtracting the current in the opposite direction and giving us the remainder ?
Essentially yes. The proper terminology is "averaging". The meter is averaging the current it is measuring.

For example, if you are using a 50% duty square wave, and the load is the same for both polarities, the meter should read 0mA. Let's say the load is changed so that it is now imbalanced; perhaps +50mA and -40mA, the average reading on the display should be +10mA.

Be careful in your assumptions, as this does not mean the FG is supplying only 10mA to the circuit. Likewise, if the loads are reversed such that the readings are +40mA and -50mA, you can not assume that 10mA is going back into the battery. The meter in this case is simply telling you that the FG is supplying 10mA more negative current than positive current. In both cases above, the FG (and battery) is supplying an average of 45mA of current to the circuit.

Quote
The reason i found this circuit interesting is that never have i seen a DMM go negative in curent flow on any other circuit i have built-including SSG's.
As I explained above, a negative current reading in this case simply means that on average, the FG is supplying more negative current than positive current. That's all. The meter isn't giving you any other useful information, at least not the kind you can make any power computations from.

Let's say I have a real heavy duty FG that can supply 10A of current (both + and -), and I am driving a load which is imbalanced, such as the one in your circuit. But in this case, lets' say on the positive side, the load draws 9.999A, and on the negative side the load draws -10.000A. What will the ammeter read? It will of course read -1mA. Now, what is the average battery current? It is of course almost 10A. If the FG output voltage is +/- 6V, then the average power (supplied by the battery) going into this "load" is 60W.

Quote
Here is the circuit i am useing for the wave generator.
http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n492/duneraider69/teslatpulsecircuit_zpsf9e6cd79.jpg
Thanks for the circuit, that is quite helpful in understanding how your FG can have a bipolar output (the DC is decoupled).

Quote
So please,if you can see an error-let us know.
Here is one; in your video titled "Tesla circuit pt4", at about 3:30 you are explaining that one ammeter is slightly higher than the other because of the duty cycle being off of 50%. This is incorrect. In fact, you can get rid of one of those ammeters because they are redundant of each other. You will notice that they seem to track quite closely most of the time, never differeing more than a few tens of uA. I suspect the difference is caused by inductance in your wiring and/or integrator vagaries in the meters. At any rate, you only need one ammeter, and that should be the one on the output of your FG.

Ammeters are bidirectional, so you only need one to see both the positive and negative currents. However, if you want to see the true current being supplied by the FG, you should monitor the battery current. If there is any current going back into the battery, you will see it.

Any questions, please let me know.

.99

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2013, 01:12:27 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2013, 01:18:53 AM »
Tinman:

The schematic for your wave generator circuit looks very suspect, like it has errors.  The Q1 emitter-follower output is not connected to anything so it is not doing anything useful.  Normally that would be used to provide an output signal.

The 1K VR2 potentiometer sucks the life out of the output from the 555 pin #3.  The output impedance of your wave generator is very high (I thought that it was 50 ohms.)  The output impedance of your signal generator is also variable - it depends where the VR2 potentiometer is set at.  That is highly undesirable.  Also, at lower frequencies you will notice that the waveform is not a square wave any more, it will look like a series of alternating positive and negative spikes.

E2matrix:

Quote
Sounds to me like negative resistance or some sort of oddity that doesn't fit traditional electrical theory.

You told me you have some technical background so how can you possibly say that?  Everytime someone sees something "unusual" in a circuit it turns out they either were not using their measuring instruments properly or they did not understand what the circuit was doing.  This entire circuit (including the signal generator) consists of a few diodes, a transistor, a few capacitors, a coil, etc.  It's metaphysically impossible for this circuit to be doing something "special."  The only fun here is figuring out why there are apparent anomalous readings and tracking down the resolution and understanding where you went wrong.  Taking these "great leaps" on your part is a mistake.

MileHigh

Offline e2matrix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1868
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2013, 02:49:19 AM »
Just finished building the circuit although I'm not sure my pancake is big enough.  I haven't fired it up yet.   So poynt99 what do you think if one were to use a positive only square wave pulse to feed this?  I've got a couple devices and one FG that can do that.  If that produces the same/similar effect would that change things? 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2013, 02:49:19 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline poynt99

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3585
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2013, 03:39:44 AM »
Just finished building the circuit although I'm not sure my pancake is big enough.  I haven't fired it up yet.   So poynt99 what do you think if one were to use a positive only square wave pulse to feed this?  I've got a couple devices and one FG that can do that.  If that produces the same/similar effect would that change things?

In some cases, some current can be returned to the battery. We saw this with Rose's circuit. However, this is by no means a sign of OU.

In terms of current, that 555 circuit is using a fraction of what those LED's are, so if you want to know if the circuit is OU or not, monitor the average battery current. If the meter starts "spinning backwards", then you might have something.

Offline e2matrix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1868
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2013, 04:44:43 AM »
Hi Milehigh,  I thought you understood by now I like to look to the 'magical' side of metaphysical ;)     Anyway it was just a quick thought however I do believe there may be some 'magic' in a Tesla bifilar pancake coil.
 I fired up the circuit and here are some observations.  First I'll mention some of the items used:  two precision resistors in parallel that yielded 3.6 Ohms including the resistance of the clip leads.  1N4004 diodes.  High intensity 5mm LED's - 3 warm and 1 cool white.  Very small pancake bifilar coil -- probably only around 10 feet of twin 22 ga. wire.  I later changed to using a bifilar bi-toroid.  2200 uf electrolytic and a 150 uf electrolytic.  One digital function generator with controls for amplitude, offset, duty cycle, sweep, etc. all in square wave mode although I only played with the amplitude, duty cycle and offset.   I used a Fluke 87 model III true RMS meter which will go to 200 Khz.  My main test frequency was right around 528 Hz so this is well within the range of the Fluke frequency capabilities.   I found the LED outputs dropped off at higher frequencies.   

   I noticed after playing around a bit was that one lead to the pancake coil had fallen off.  With that setup I was having the turn the FG output as low as it would go.  In changing the offset all the way down or all the way up would toggle between the set of 3 LED's glowing very bright or the 1 LED glowing very bright (At maximum brightness on either set the o-scope appeared flatlined on the centerline).  Upon finding the loose cliplead and reattaching it that all changed to need a higher output from the FG which was no surprise as the pancake coil is very low resistance or impedance across the output of the FG.  It still worked but not much brightness.  I was using a 400 Mhz digital scope and the patterns were basic square wave.
      I then switched to the bifilar bi-toroid since I felt the pancake was too small and too low resistance.   Although the bi-toroid didn't have a lot more wire on it than the pancake it did much better in brightness of the LED's at the same FG output.   All this so far was just quick and dirty tests.   What I think was interesting though is what I was seeing on the Fluke meter.  Depending on the offset and duty cycle I would mostly see anything from about 5 ma to 180 ma or so.  I'll have to go back to verify some of this as I was just flying through a bunch of different little variations and tests.
      But what was most interesting was to see the current go completely to Zero and even negative to about 180 ma depending on the FG settings while still seeing the LED's lit bright.  The Fluke meter was beween the positive of the FG and the input to the circuit.  I'll probably need to go back and re-read poynt's explanation again but given the meter and it's specs does it seem there is something odd here?   Note that both the single 'load' LED and the 3 LED's were lit fairly bright all the way from a positive current up to about 180 ma to Zero to a negative current of about 180 ma.   They were lit the entire time I swept from positive current to negative current.   So I'll admit I'm mostly too lazy to figure out an explanation if that is really an oddity but I'm starting to get some ideas.  BTW the scope patterns were no longer square wave when I was using the bi-toroid. 
One other thing I'll say again is that when I was changing the FG offset and the o-scope pattern was flat lined on the center line it seems odd to have the LED's lit so bright.  I'm going to recheck that aspect now with current readings as I don't think I had the meter hooked up when I observed that. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2013, 04:44:43 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline e2matrix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1868
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2013, 05:17:40 AM »
Here are a couple corrections and further observations to my previous post.   When I thought the o-scope was showing flat line at certain offsets it was with the pancake coil and I found when I turned it to maximum sensitivity (1 millivolt per division) there was still a small square wave but very low voltage - probably less than 1/3 millivolt.    Maximum LED brightness does not occur at maximum positive or maximum negative current.  At least according the my meter the maximum pos. or maximum neg. current was actually producing about the lowest brightness.  Zero current through about 140ma pos or neg was nearly the same brightness.  All this was at the same amplitude FG output and the current was being varied by changing the offset for that test.  I'm not really sure what to make of all this right now but I'm tossing it out there for those who are a lot more familiar with such data.   At my age it mostly comes down to a 'need to know' basis and I don't really need to know why but only if it's something significant and I'll even leave that up the members here who have a lot more experience with all this.   I'll be glad to do other tests if anyone can suggest some with this setup.   
I also want to add for anyone not familiar with the Fluke 87 III that in the milliamp current mode it is auto sensing for either DC or AC.   So if this can read to 200 Khz and I was at only 528 Hz wouldn't it see the AC current from the FG regardless of the offset?  Most of my tests were at 50% duty cycle but when changing the offset I was getting a range in the current from about 180 ma positive through zero to negative 180 ma.  I suppose the logical explanation is that the meter was seeing the AC but the offset was making it positive or negative.  But what about when the current was Zero ma and the LED's bright?   It's an auto AC and DC current meter which can read either and switches automatically.   Seems a bit odd but mostly thinking out loud here.... I'm going to look a bit more on that situation with the o-scope.   

Offline e2matrix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1868
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2013, 05:22:41 AM »
In some cases, some current can be returned to the battery. We saw this with Rose's circuit. However, this is by no means a sign of OU.

In terms of current, that 555 circuit is using a fraction of what those LED's are, so if you want to know if the circuit is OU or not, monitor the average battery current. If the meter starts "spinning backwards", then you might have something.


I just bought a bunch more 555's a couple weeks ago so if this continues to look interesting I'll try building a square wave gen with a 555 so it can all be run off battery and see about looping any apparent excess back to the battery.    I need to do a better pancake coil too since I believe if there is any real unusual activity here that it will likely be the result of that coil.   

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2013, 05:55:13 AM »
@Tinman: thanks for posting the oscillator circuit. I agree with MH... it looks a bit weird, but if it works.... it works.  I've gathered most of the components together to build a duplicate (still searching my stash for a 500K pot, though). I somehow thought that this was a commercial product you bought?

It would be nice to know the inductance of your Tesla bifilar pancake coil. You can probably determine it "close enough" by putting it in parallel with a known capacitor, stimulating it with your FG, and looking for the resonant frequency of the tank, then solving for the inductance value.

If you have or can get an Arduino, the inductometer is simple and easy to make, and you don't need the LCD screen that I used, you can get the output on your computer using the Arduino IDE Serial Monitor tool. An Arduino is incredibly useful for all kinds of things and I think that one should be a part of any well-equipped laboratory. The Arduino, a comparator or op-amp wired as comparator, and a known 2uF cap is pretty much all you need to make a fairly accurate inductance meter that works by "punching" the tank circuit and looking at the actual resonant frequency and doing the math from that.

I hope you are managing to stay cool, mate. I see from the map that many areas are topping 50 degrees..... that's hot, even for Texas. Two summers ago we had weeks of over 40 degrees along with high humidity, and I lived in the Mojave in California for a while where it got to 45 or so with low humidity. I can't even imagine what 50 degrees feels like outside a sauna.

Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5236
Re: Electron Reversing Device
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2013, 10:21:53 AM »
Ok to answer some question's
First up,i make no claims of any type,other than what i see is something i havnt seen befor.
And as you will see in a previous post of mine,i expected just as TK an.99 said-they are averaging current flows.
So a question of my own would be-if the current is changing direction(as it is) then why do the meters not read in AC insted of DC?
At a guess i would think this could be due to the wave shape itself,in that the meters must see a sign wave and not a square wave to read in AC mode.
But if it is another reason,then i would like to know-as this is how we learn.

Now the r3,150uf cap and diode are not for any operational purpose of the circuit.As mentioned in one of the video's,it is for a voltage reference point only.This tells me how much voltage the circuit is running on.The diode loss must also be added to that voltage>in my case it is +.5 volts for those diodes.
Although the FG may be useing so many miliamps at 12 volt's,that is not what the circuit in question is useing.

What we need to understand here is im not interested in the efficiency of the FG-that is just our power supply.
I look at the FG as a transformer that puts out an AC square wave,and the negative(ground) is our neutral.
So useing the 150uf cap(our voltage reference point)i can see that the peak voltage being delivered by our transforme(FG) is about 4.5 volt's.This i have verified with the scope placed on the output's of the FG,and reading from peak to peak.

Now as mile high pointed out-the FG circuit look's no quite right.
First up,the circuit is the one in the instruction's that come with the kit from jaycar.
The confusion may be because i have removed the part of the circuit that was for a sawtooth wave,as this did not make the setup function.
Maybe i should have left it on ,so as to avoid the confusion.
But as i stated above,im not interested in how efficient the FG is-i am only interested in what the circuit itself is doing.

Now the other thing i would like to say is that when you place some of Tesla's work (in this case the BPC)in your circuit's,by no means is that just a plain old circuit.
In my next video,i will show just what the BPC can achieve that no other coil can-that i have seen anyway.

The other thing that i find interesting is the amount of current going into the circuit,and the amount of current being dissipated across the LED's.
Also remember that the current on the load LED (orange one) is pure DC ,not pulsed.

So i guess the next thing to do would be to get a current input,and the current output across the LED's

But the thing i need you to understand is this-in no way do i claim any OU from this circuit.
What i am doing is sharing something i found to be interesting.

 

OneLink