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News announcements and other topics => News => Topic started by: Benevolent on January 06, 2013, 07:55:42 PM

Title: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: Benevolent on January 06, 2013, 07:55:42 PM
In this video series the currently accepted theories of physics and astrophysics are shaken to the core by a radical new theory of the fundamental forces in all matter.

You will be amazed as a magnetic model of the dome at CERN is used to create a 100 mm diameter plasma Sun with a 300 mm diameter equatorial disc of plasma around it!

All the plasma videos are actual footage with no enhancement or manipulation other than speed. In other words, this is real thing. Hard to believe, but it is all true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EPlyiW-xGI
 
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TinselKoala on January 06, 2013, 11:28:10 PM
Reminds me a lot of Birkeland and Alfven.

http://www.plasma-universe.com/index.php/Texts:On_Possible_Electric_Phenomena_in_Solar_Systems_and_Nebulae
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: Gwandau on January 07, 2013, 12:13:26 AM
Maybe I got it wrong, but don't they say in the video that they are using two separate "single pole" magnets, the red one said to be magnetic north pole and the blue one south pole???
 
Single pole magnets???
 
To anyone not knowing about the inevitable dipolarity of magnets, their video gave the impression that there exists mono polar magnets. ::)

 
Gwandau
 
 
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: Vito PL on January 07, 2013, 12:22:50 AM

Single pole magnets???
 
Gwandau
Yes :D
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: Gwandau on January 07, 2013, 12:47:01 AM
Maybe I got it wrong, but don't they say in the video that they are using two separate "single pole" magnets, the red one said to be magnetic north pole and the blue one south pole???
 
Single pole magnets???
 
To anyone not knowing about the inevitable dipolarity of magnets, their video gave the impression that there exists mono polar magnets. ::)

 
Gwandau

 
Unfortunately I used the term "single pole magnet" which is a common commercial trade name for specifically shaped magnets, which still are dipolar.
 
Mono polar magnets does not exist, although German scientists claim to have created broken microscopic monopolar ends of dysprosium titanate lattice strings in ultra low temperature and high magnetic field exposure.

 
This is what I meant:
 
Maybe I got it wrong, but don't they say in the video that they are using two separate "mono polar" magnets, the red one said to be magnetic north pole and the blue one south pole???
 
Mono polar magnets???
 
To anyone not knowing about the inevitable dipolarity of magnets, their video gave the impression that there exists mono polar magnets. ::)

 
Gwandau
 
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TechStuf on January 07, 2013, 01:22:52 PM
An interesting video!  Yet there is little shared in it that has not already been discovered.  Albert Roy Davis shared this model in 1936! And much, much more since.

http://magnetage.com/ARD_Lab_History.html (http://magnetage.com/ARD_Lab_History.html)

http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=19579 (http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=19579)

http://www.amazon.com/Magnetism-Its-Effects-Living-System/dp/0911311149 (http://www.amazon.com/Magnetism-Its-Effects-Living-System/dp/0911311149)

I have attached a few pics from one of my books.






Blessings in Christ
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: crazycut06 on January 07, 2013, 01:49:49 PM
Informative video, a very clear explanation of how galaxies were formed...  :)


What if we cut a bar magnet in half? Would it become a monopole north and a monople south?
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: truesearch on January 07, 2013, 04:19:21 PM
@crazycut06:


Conventional teaching says if you cut a magnet in half you wind up with 2 separate magnets each with it's own N/S pole ends. Take a look at this wiki page (link: [size=78%]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetism)[/size] ) down in the "Magnetic Monopoles" section.


truesearch
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TinselKoala on January 07, 2013, 07:06:45 PM
Not only "conventional teaching", but also hundreds of years of experimentation.
Try it for yourself, cut any magnet in half .... I'm sure thousands of people have done so, and nobody has made a monopole magnet yet.

And it's easy to prove that the Davis "model" in the pictures above is false, with a simple magnetic compass.
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: crazycut06 on January 08, 2013, 12:45:38 AM
@ truesearch, thanks for the info. Im kinda lazy googling stuff!  ;D


@ Tinselkoala, well you're right, everytime i cut a magnet in half they make a separate n-s poles, just thinking if a monopole is really possible.... ???
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TinselKoala on January 08, 2013, 02:13:27 AM
@crazy.... the conventional wisdom says it's not possible. And if you think about what "field lines" are and what they represent it makes sense that it would not be possible. Field lines are closed loops, this fact is contained in Maxwell's equations as Gauss's Law: Div B = 0. Divergence of B is zero, meaning that all field lines are closed loops or extend to infinity,  and magnetic monopoles can't exist.

This is a descriptive kind of law, though; I don't think monopoles are forbidden, exactly, and lots of people are looking for them. I think that the conditions that might produce them are way out of the reach of the amateur scientist, though, and will require huge energies and "big science" kind of equipment.

The magnetic field around a straight, current carrying wire is a good example of how field lines behave. In a PM, the moving charges are unpaired electrons in the material, with aligned spins. If you think of a simplistic electron "orbiting" a nucleus in a circular orbit, there's your single loop of wire carrying a current, and the field will loop around the orbit of the electron in continuous loops just like the circles of field around a wire, and all these add together to give the bulk magnet its big field. So you can think of a bar magnet as kind of a self-powered solenoidal coil, with field lines to match.

Of course this isn't as exciting as the Davis model.... but as I said before, you can just take an ordinary compass and probe around the Earth, or a bar magnet, and see that his representation isn't a reflection of what really happens. The "dip" of the Earth's field is into and out of the  poles, and is almost zero (horizontal, no dip) around the equator, in contrast to the Davis sketches above.
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: Liberty on January 08, 2013, 03:34:49 AM
@crazy.... the conventional wisdom says it's not possible. And if you think about what "field lines" are and what they represent it makes sense that it would not be possible. Field lines are closed loops, this fact is contained in Maxwell's equations as Gauss's Law: Div B = 0. Divergence of B is zero, meaning that all field lines are closed loops or extend to infinity,  and magnetic monopoles can't exist.

This is a descriptive kind of law, though; I don't think monopoles are forbidden, exactly, and lots of people are looking for them. I think that the conditions that might produce them are way out of the reach of the amateur scientist, though, and will require huge energies and "big science" kind of equipment.

The magnetic field around a straight, current carrying wire is a good example of how field lines behave. In a PM, the moving charges are unpaired electrons in the material, with aligned spins. If you think of a simplistic electron "orbiting" a nucleus in a circular orbit, there's your single loop of wire carrying a current, and the field will loop around the orbit of the electron in continuous loops just like the circles of field around a wire, and all these add together to give the bulk magnet its big field. So you can think of a bar magnet as kind of a self-powered solenoidal coil, with field lines to match.

Of course this isn't as exciting as the Davis model.... but as I said before, you can just take an ordinary compass and probe around the Earth, or a bar magnet, and see that his representation isn't a reflection of what really happens. The "dip" of the Earth's field is into and out of the  poles, and is almost zero (horizontal, no dip) around the equator, in contrast to the Davis sketches above.

"So you can think of a bar magnet as kind of a self-powered solenoidal coil, with field lines to match."

What is your explanation of why the bar magnet is "self-powered"?  What causes it to not deplete?
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TechStuf on January 08, 2013, 05:16:47 AM
Independent verification of the Davis model by Howard Johnson.
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: soda on January 08, 2013, 06:21:20 AM
Any one have any luck finding these patents? It'd be great to understand how the bowl field emitters are magnetized.
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: crazycut06 on January 08, 2013, 07:07:44 AM
"So you can think of a bar magnet as kind of a self-powered solenoidal coil, with field lines to match."

What is your explanation of why the bar magnet is "self-powered"?  What causes it to not deplete?


Hi Liberty,
I think TK was trying to imply that when a soleniod coil is powered, it is like a bar magnet that produces its north and south poles.


@Tinselkoala,
Thanks for some info. Im not like you guys Guru's of science  ;)
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: Liberty on January 08, 2013, 07:31:15 AM

Hi Liberty,
I think TK was trying to imply that when a soleniod coil is powered, it is like a bar magnet that produces its north and south poles.


@Tinselkoala,
Thanks for some info. Im not like you guys Guru's of science  ;)

Yes, but I was hoping that he would take a stab at answering the question anyway...  Wondering if science has an answer to how a magnet really works, and if so, why a magnet doesn't deplete it's energy source and continues to emit a magnetic field. 
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TinselKoala on January 08, 2013, 08:11:22 AM
Independent verification of the Davis model by Howard Johnson.

No, it's not.
You may also recall that Johnson's "motors" don't work.... unless your name is Mylow.

@crazy:
The north and south "poles" of a bar magnet arise from the same cause as the poles of a solenoid: charge in motion. In the case of the bar magnet the charges that are in motion are the unpaired electrons in certain orbitals of certain atoms, like iron. The electrons in their orbitals possess spin angular momentum. In bulk material that is unmagnetised the electron spins of many atoms are unaligned, but they can become aligned by various processes. The alignment comes from applying an external field of sufficient strength, or even mechanical vibration in the presence of a weaker field. But the field itself ultimately arises from the electron spins and orbital motions. The field lines of these tiny electron magnets go around the orbital motion in closed loops, just like the field of a wire only much smaller and weaker. In the case of the DC solenoid coil, we provide voltage which moves charge through the wire, but once the field is established, no power is lost to the field; the current flows and power is dissipated by the resistance of the wire according to Ohm's law. The steady field itself dissipates no power.

Thinking of "poles" of a bar magnet is verbally misleading. Think of a garden hose. It has two "poles" just like a bar magnet: water goes in one end and comes out the other (and ultimately loops through the external hydrologic cycle and makes it back to the beginning). What happens when you cut a garden hose in half? Do you now have a couple of "one ended" hoses?

If anyone tells you that they can explain how and why electrons orbit nuclei "perpetually", or why moving charge is always accompanied by a magnetic field..... don't believe them. The question is on the order of "why is there something, rather than nothing".  Why are energy levels quantized? Why is there air? What do women really want?

Please try to remember that "conventional" science understands magnetism and magnetic fields fairly well....well enough to work relative miracles of engineering with them, like loudspeakers, CRT displays, electric motors of all kinds (and very high efficiencies) and much much more. This fact alone is enough to refute speculative models like those of Davis and Johnson. If their models were true, all kinds of things we take for granted would not work, or would have to be designed very differently, and airliners and ships at sea would be getting lost all the time.

There are deep mysteries to be sure, like "why" does the electron keep spinning.... but once you can understand that the magnetic field itself doesn't take any energy to maintain, then it's a bit easier.  Again, consider the DC solenoid coil. Apply some voltage.... and some energy goes into setting up the field, so the current doesn't just appear instantly at its full value, it takes a bit of time to increase. This is because setting up the field is costly. Once the field is established it doesn't take any more energy to maintain and the current flows unimpeded. When the circuit is interrupted, the energy used to set up the field is returned as the current continues to try to flow in the same direction, making things like contact arcs or big spikes of voltage. Since we weren't around when the electrons started spinning, and we won't be around when they stop..... we don't get to see the energy required to set up the little fields of each spinning electron. We only see the energy needed to knock a bunch of little fields into alignment so that the bulk material has a big enough coherent field to be detected outside.

Now for the Zen: It's all one thing. Charge, motion, field: one thing. One. Motion is relative to a reference frame, one frame's magnetic field is another frame's electric field, charge is conserved.
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TechStuf on January 08, 2013, 11:13:37 AM
Quote
No, it's not. You may also recall that Johnson's "motors" don't work.... unless your name is Mylow.


As we now have at minimum, 3 independent researchers who observed the same model, perhaps there is more than meets one's simple eye. 

It shouldn't take any serious researcher long with a bit of hand's on, to prove the archaic field model inadequate.  Man exploits quite well a host of physical realities without understanding really much at all about them.  One man's verification is another's wild supposition and history has proven that the twain really only meet briefly as one supplants the other.



TS


Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: gravityblock on January 08, 2013, 01:12:44 PM
Any one have any luck finding these patents? It'd be great to understand how the bowl field emitters are magnetized.

I haven't had any luck finding those patents, however, here's another device patented by David LaPoint (http://www.google.com/patents/US20080246361?printsec=claims&dq=David+LaPoint+patent&ei=3PzrUM2cJ7PU2QWK9oCoDQ#v=onepage&q=David%20LaPoint%20patent&f=false) which may be helpful.  According to this patent, the bowl field emitters are more than likely magnetic arrays (halbach arrays), where one pole is internal and the opposite pole is external.  The bowls also use Macor, which is a machineable glass-ceramic developed and sold by Corning Inc. It is a white material that looks somewhat like porcelain. Macor has excellent thermal characteristics, acting as efficient insulation, and stable up to temperatures of 1000 °C, with very little thermal expansion or outgassing.  It is often used in high-temperature and/or high-vacuum environments, where dimensional stability and low outgassing are critical.   

Gravock
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TinselKoala on January 08, 2013, 01:58:42 PM

As we now have at minimum, 3 independent researchers who observed the same model, perhaps there is more than meets one's simple eye. 

It shouldn't take any serious researcher long with a bit of hand's on, to prove the archaic field model inadequate.  Man exploits quite well a host of physical realities without understanding really much at all about them.  One man's verification is another's wild supposition and history has proven that the twain really only meet briefly as one supplants the other.



TS
Show me one device that is designed _and working_ according to these models of which you speak, that cannot be explained better by the "archaic" field model  that is used every day to make motors, to levitate bullet trains, to guide electron and ion beams to make the very chips your computer uses.....
you cannot.
Explain why an ordinary compass needle , taken to the equator, does not dip toward the center of the planet like Davis's imaginary model shows.
That explanation I'd really like to see.
Show me a mathematical derivation of these models of which you speak, that is also consistent with QED, the most precise and accurate theory of physics that humans have come up with yet. Show me a single violation of the relationships described by Maxwell's equations. You cannot.

The physics .... the real physics.... of the world around you refutes these imaginations of people like Davis, who apparently never used a magnetic compass at sea, and Howard Johnson, who spent his life chasing a futile dream and made lots of simple...Not Overunity.... toys, but never made anything that worked as he dreamed.
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: crazycut06 on January 08, 2013, 02:38:15 PM
No, it's not.
You may also recall that Johnson's "motors" don't work.... unless your name is Mylow.

@crazy:
The north and south "poles" of a bar magnet arise from the same cause as the poles of a solenoid: charge in motion. In the case of the bar magnet the charges that are in motion are the unpaired electrons in certain orbitals of certain atoms, like iron. The electrons in their orbitals possess spin angular momentum. In bulk material that is unmagnetised the electron spins of many atoms are unaligned, but they can become aligned by various processes. The alignment comes from applying an external field of sufficient strength, or even mechanical vibration in the presence of a weaker field. But the field itself ultimately arises from the electron spins and orbital motions. The field lines of these tiny electron magnets go around the orbital motion in closed loops, just like the field of a wire only much smaller and weaker. In the case of the DC solenoid coil, we provide voltage which moves charge through the wire, but once the field is established, no power is lost to the field; the current flows and power is dissipated by the resistance of the wire according to Ohm's law. The steady field itself dissipates no power.

Thinking of "poles" of a bar magnet is verbally misleading. Think of a garden hose. It has two "poles" just like a bar magnet: water goes in one end and comes out the other (and ultimately loops through the external hydrologic cycle and makes it back to the beginning). What happens when you cut a garden hose in half? Do you now have a couple of "one ended" hoses?

If anyone tells you that they can explain how and why electrons orbit nuclei "perpetually", or why moving charge is always accompanied by a magnetic field..... don't believe them. The question is on the order of "why is there something, rather than nothing".  Why are energy levels quantized? Why is there air? What do women really want?

Please try to remember that "conventional" science understands magnetism and magnetic fields fairly well....well enough to work relative miracles of engineering with them, like loudspeakers, CRT displays, electric motors of all kinds (and very high efficiencies) and much much more. This fact alone is enough to refute speculative models like those of Davis and Johnson. If their models were true, all kinds of things we take for granted would not work, or would have to be designed very differently, and airliners and ships at sea would be getting lost all the time.

There are deep mysteries to be sure, like "why" does the electron keep spinning.... but once you can understand that the magnetic field itself doesn't take any energy to maintain, then it's a bit easier.  Again, consider the DC solenoid coil. Apply some voltage.... and some energy goes into setting up the field, so the current doesn't just appear instantly at its full value, it takes a bit of time to increase. This is because setting up the field is costly. Once the field is established it doesn't take any more energy to maintain and the current flows unimpeded. When the circuit is interrupted, the energy used to set up the field is returned as the current continues to try to flow in the same direction, making things like contact arcs or big spikes of voltage. Since we weren't around when the electrons started spinning, and we won't be around when they stop..... we don't get to see the energy required to set up the little fields of each spinning electron. We only see the energy needed to knock a bunch of little fields into alignment so that the bulk material has a big enough coherent field to be detected outside.

Now for the Zen: It's all one thing. Charge, motion, field: one thing. One. Motion is relative to a reference frame, one frame's magnetic field is another frame's electric field, charge is conserved.
Wow! Your like a physics teacher to me now,  ;D  very much appreciated, thank's
Regards cc
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: Dave45 on January 08, 2013, 03:16:21 PM
Outstanding vid

Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: gravityblock on January 08, 2013, 05:01:12 PM
Show me one device that is designed _and working_ according to these models of which you speak, that cannot be explained better by the "archaic" field model  that is used every day to make motors, to levitate bullet trains, to guide electron and ion beams to make the very chips your computer uses.....
you cannot.
Explain why an ordinary compass needle , taken to the equator, does not dip toward the center of the planet like Davis's imaginary model shows.
That explanation I'd really like to see.
Show me a mathematical derivation of these models of which you speak, that is also consistent with QED, the most precise and accurate theory of physics that humans have come up with yet. Show me a single violation of the relationships described by Maxwell's equations. You cannot.

The physics .... the real physics.... of the world around you refutes these imaginations of people like Davis, who apparently never used a magnetic compass at sea, and Howard Johnson, who spent his life chasing a futile dream and made lots of simple...Not Overunity.... toys, but never made anything that worked as he dreamed.

How do you explain this macroscopic version of a quantum effect (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OQmzv2W-Ys) by using conventional field models where the electron must revolve twice to turn itself around once? Hence the so-called spin 1/2.  Please note the difference in how the magnet indicator lines up at the starting position and at 1800 from the starting position.  In addition to this, how do you explain the vortex flowing around a stationary magnet in this video titled, "Magnetic Vortex Spin Discovery (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAl1LVPbYhY)".  Please note, there is no vortex when substituting the magnet with a stationary iron slug, so this highly suggests the magnetic field is responsible for the vortex.  The image below is a snapshot of the Oliver Crane and RQM view of the magnetic field along with the conventional view.

Gravock
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: vrand on January 08, 2013, 07:20:28 PM
In this video series the currently accepted theories of physics and astrophysics are shaken to the core by a radical new theory of the fundamental forces in all matter.

You will be amazed as a magnetic model of the dome at CERN is used to create a 100 mm diameter plasma Sun with a 300 mm diameter equatorial disc of plasma around it!

All the plasma videos are actual footage with no enhancement or manipulation other than speed. In other words, this is real thing. Hard to believe, but it is all true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EPlyiW-xGI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EPlyiW-xGI)


Interesting HV Plasma experiments and theories, thank you for the Youtube link. Looking forward to the "free energy" device based on this theory this summer.
Cheers
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TinselKoala on January 08, 2013, 08:23:35 PM
@gravock: If you are challenging conventional views it is up to you to explain how your preferred model is better, makes better predictions of known behaviour and predicts new behaviour that the old model does not, and is confirmed by experiment.

How do YOU explain MRI imagers, ion beam lithography, CRTs, electric motors of all kinds, magnetic compasses, magnetising jigs, bubble chambers, auroras,  using any of the "new" models? The behaviour of these systems and many many more are fully explained using the "ordinary" or "archaic" field model. The "archaic" model makes quite accurate mathematical predictions of very complex behaviour and is used all the time by people who actually make new things that work, in contrast to , eg, Howard Johnson.  Why does the compass needle not show the pattern described by Crane, but rather the conventional pattern? Ditto iron filings or other ways of mapping field lines.... all show results that are consistent with Faraday and inconsistent with Crane or Davis or HoJo.

Until someone can use some new model to fully explain all these things which have been engineered by understanding the "archaic" model, and in addition show how the new model predicts behaviour that the old model does not and these predictions are confirmed by experiment.... the "archaic" model is the proper one to use and to believe in.

It is all one, remember, and motion is relative. Currents in fluid media like plasma or liquid electrolytes spiral around magnetic field lines. This is not news; what is shown in the second video you linked is neither surprising, unusual, or unexplained. I've reproduced it myself, wirelessly, in underwater electrolysis systems, and I've photographed spiraling plasmas in several settings. This behaviour is neither predicted nor explained by Davis or HoJo or any other models other than the standard Faraday-Gauss-Maxwell "archaic" model.

You do realise, I hope, that the two videos of the spiralling plasma, highspeed and regular, caused by the PM in the neon mug were shot by me, don't you?  And if you take a look at this picture of a discharge from my TinselKoil you can clearly see the spiralling of the plasma current.
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TechStuf on January 08, 2013, 11:35:09 PM
Quote
Until someone can use some new model to fully explain all these things which have been engineered by understanding the "archaic" model, and in addition show how the new model predicts behaviour that the old model does not and these predictions are confirmed by experiment.... the "archaic" model is the proper one to use and to believe in.

Until...and until....

How about until one employs the empirical science skills of an 11 year old and simply places two ring magnets in opposition over a pencil.  Switch polarities and levitate one over the other again.  Voila!  They both levitate at the same height.  Of course with statements like these:

Quote
Why does the compass needle not show the pattern described by Crane, but rather the conventional pattern? Ditto iron filings or other ways of mapping field lines.... all show results that are consistent with Faraday and inconsistent with Crane or Davis or HoJo.

It is completely understandable how one could fail to grasp the significance of the rather elementary experiment I've outlined above.  But then it also seems obvious that you never bothered to watch the video at the beginning of this topic, or you would have seen a demonstration with your beholden compass needle proving that not all is as it appears as regards magnetic field dynamics.


TS
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: gravityblock on January 10, 2013, 03:44:01 AM
@gravock: If you are challenging conventional views it is up to you to explain how your preferred model is better, makes better predictions of known behaviour and predicts new behaviour that the old model does not, and is confirmed by experiment.

According to the authors of a publication titled, "Central Oscillator and Space-Quanta-Medium (http://www.rqm.ch/Central%20Oscillator%20and%20SpaceQuantaMedium.pdf)", their model does make better predictions of known behavior and does predict new behavior that the old model does not, and has been confirmed by experiments.

How do YOU explain MRI imagers, ion beam lithography, CRTs, electric motors of all kinds, magnetic compasses, magnetising jigs, bubble chambers, auroras,  using any of the "new" models? The behaviour of these systems and many many more are fully explained using the "ordinary" or "archaic" field model. The "archaic" model makes quite accurate mathematical predictions of very complex behaviour and is used all the time by people who actually make new things that work, in contrast to , eg, Howard Johnson.  Why does the compass needle not show the pattern described by Crane, but rather the conventional pattern? Ditto iron filings or other ways of mapping field lines.... all show results that are consistent with Faraday and inconsistent with Crane or Davis or HoJo.

Iron filings do show concentric rings as shown by the Ditchev-Experiment, which is consistent and explainable with Crane's model and inconsistent and unexplainable in the 'archaic' field models which predicts a radial field pattern.  Below is a snapshot of page 206 in the above publication describing the Ditchev experiment.  This experiment was published in the International Glasnost Journal of Fundamental Physics in 1992, by Hristo Ditchev.  In addition to this, the main video of this thread also reveals how the steel balls form concentric rings supporting Crane's model.  IMO, this publication is a must read and is quite relevant to this thread.

Gravock
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: vrand on January 10, 2013, 06:17:32 AM
According to the authors of a publication titled, "Central Oscillator and Space-Quanta-Medium (http://www.rqm.ch/Central%20Oscillator%20and%20SpaceQuantaMedium.pdf)", their model does make better predictions of known behavior and does predict new behavior that the old model does not, and has been confirmed by experiments.

Iron filings do show concentric rings as shown by the Ditchev-Experiment, which is consistent and explainable with Crane's model and inconsistent and unexplainable in the 'archaic' field models which predicts a radial field pattern.  Below is a snapshot of page 206 in the above publication describing the Ditchev experiment.  This experiment was published in the International Glasnost Journal of Fundamental Physics in 1992, by Hristo Ditchev.  In addition to this, the main video of this thread also reveals how the steel balls form concentric rings supporting Crane's model.  IMO, this publication is a must read and is quite relevant to this thread.

Gravock


Exactly, it is the experiment that changes the models.  Each new experiment revels new information.  When a device is created that can tap the aether/ether, orgone energy, infinite energy, whatever one wants to call it, and creates more energy output > input to power our homes and cars then the "models" will change again.  :)


Cheers
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on January 11, 2013, 02:09:33 AM
Hi All,

Does anybody have a backup of the video?

It's already gone.
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: wideyed_tutank on January 11, 2013, 05:35:59 AM
@DreamThinkBuild
Try again. It's still there.
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TechStuf on January 12, 2013, 02:52:21 AM
Good point, Vrand. 


Some will always prefer to climb a tree to see what they can see, while others prefer to keep feet to ground and dig to seek out the root of the matter. 

Man's capacity for understanding remains yet so very small.

Also, note the obviously incorrect quanta flow in the 'university' models.

http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/212_spring2007.web.dir/ashley_hinton/images/Magnetic_Field_Lines.gif (http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/212_spring2007.web.dir/ashley_hinton/images/Magnetic_Field_Lines.gif)

Put two N poles at opposition in close proximity (note that the clap trap science halls show that this pole is where flow emanates)  Now do the same with two S poles in close proximity.  What?  No difference in opposing force?  This despite all supposed quanta flow is entering each S pole? 

And the never ending parade of minions line up to pay for such an "education" as this.....

Clearly BOTH poles emanate and receive flow, which accounts for the field balance.



TS
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on February 01, 2013, 04:44:55 AM
Hi All,

Primer Fields Part 2 is up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NogyJ0k8Kw

Pretty amazing.

It's interesting how quickly the field switches by changing the polarity of the input, also how slightly moving the bottom bowl around can create a twist in the field.
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: soda on February 02, 2013, 12:33:19 AM
I've been waiting for this part, glad to see its finally up. I love how it describes the internal fields of the bowls. I wonder if the "flip ring" and the "choke ring" are in-fact just magnetized rings built into these bowls.... However I suspect there is much more to it than that.
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: HH on February 02, 2013, 12:46:05 AM
Hi
Was waiting for part two myself.
It looks good , but the monopolar magnets ( never explained ) are the big question mark.

There it is , my first post.
Was following this forum for ages :)
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: HH on February 02, 2013, 12:57:36 AM
Or is it just two normal speaker magnets , with oposite poles extended with bowls ?
And if you keep them close , they will be one normal magnet , with space to experiment between them ?
cheers from Ireland
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TechStuf on February 02, 2013, 01:26:16 AM



I was going to post some quasi relevant musings, but haven't the time.  I'm rushing out to trademark the terms:


AC Donut


&


Magneto-Sphincter




TS

Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: ramset on February 02, 2013, 02:36:08 AM
Well
I guess "magnetic Annulus" is all mine then ?


Thx
Chet
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TechStuf on February 02, 2013, 05:14:54 AM
lol.....


I guess my point, if there was one, was that exciting observations all too often inspire their own demise by the always and ever more exciting resultant theories.


TS
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TechStuf on February 02, 2013, 05:19:24 AM
Sorry, ran roughshod over HH's introduction.  Cheers from the American side o' the puddle! 




TS
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: Gwandau on February 02, 2013, 10:02:22 PM
@HH and everyone else having watched these two videos,
 
I have to agree they are mesmerizing productions, excellently presented.
 
But no matter how much I want to buy their concept, I fail to understand the logic of using magnets that expresses such an excentric and unnatural magnetic geometry.

The two magnets used in the experiments are shaped into forms that twarts the normally expressed shape of a magnetic field. One of the poles has been given an exterior domination, resulting in a expression of field geometry that gives rise to inteference patterns inside the bell shape, reffered to as "Flip Ring, "Choke Ring" and "Confinement Dome".
 
The fact that these strange interference patterns show similarites to the patterns found in depicted nebulas does not carry enough momentum to survive proper scientific scrutiny as long as the magnetic geometry created is deviating distinctly from naturally created magnetic field geometries. In order to resemble the same field geometry as in the experiment, it seems reasonable that the nebula has to be subjected to the same surrounding bell shaped magnet, which just is not there.
 
Still it is an interesting video and the magnetic field observations made by the Primer Field guys would have been interesting enough without all the many unfounded preconceptions so frivoly deducted from their experiments.
 
But it all comes back to the contorted magnetic field of theirs. They never mention in their videos the reason for using these twisted magnets in relation to natural magnetic phenomena, and that leaves a big question mark.
 

Gwandau
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TechStuf on February 02, 2013, 11:17:30 PM
Quote
The two magnets used in the experiments are shaped into forms that twarts the normally expressed shape of a magnetic field.

Perhaps you didn't catch the demonstration in the first video, which shows how a compass needle is passed around the magnets and moves just as it does when passed around a normal bar magnet.  The reason they use plasma, is to try and understand the deeper nature of the common dipole.  Davis, Johnson, and others got it right without using plasma....they kinda 'brailled' it.  The field models as shown in the "science" halls show the "donut" field because that is what is revealed to them by how other magnets act in the parent field.  Not how the field itself is shaped.  But how can such a difference, actually make a difference?  Indeed!  Very simple experiments easily show that the dynamics of a magnetic field as expressed in the universities cannot be correct.  I submit that the omission is intentional.  In either case, what does it reveal about many a 'hallowed hall'?  It is probable that the PTB know by now, more of the deeper nature of the common dipole, and lets face it....the old adage is true: 

"Teach a man to think that he's thinking and he will love you.  Make him really think, and he may hate you."  And universities, like many other institutions, so love to be loved.  In spite of the fact that the leaders of the 'civilized' world have nearly all been college graduates for decades, and look at where they have lead the planet! 

It has become crystal clear to many that one of the last things that the PTB want, is for any but themselves to really think, but are they really thinking?  The more people that wake up and begin Really Thinking, the more righteous indignation spreads. 

Not only is the true field structure of the common dipole apparently intentionally hidden from 'higher' education's paying customers....but the dynamics of the field as well.

The PTB are playing with some deceptively advanced toys.

http://rense.com/general54/babalc.htm (http://rense.com/general54/babalc.htm)

http://rense.com/general81/myst11.htm (http://rense.com/general81/myst11.htm)

And so are those who've been cast down to the vicinity of our planet....to mislead the kings and military commanders of the world, and gather them together for war with our Creator.

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Acton

If man has proven anything in his short sojourn on this once bejeweled speck of Creation, it is truth of the above quote.



TS

Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: Gwandau on February 03, 2013, 01:50:09 AM
@TS
 
I have watched the videos several times. I really like their theory. It's just that the unnatural setup with two bell shaped magnets seems a bit forced, no matter how impressive the plasma geometry.
 
The reason why these two bell shaped magnets give the same surrounding field appearence as one single natural magnet is due to their opposite poles being "hidden" inside the interior of the bell.
There is nothing unique with that. Just a nice trick to make two bell shaped magnets display the magnetic field appearance of one single naturally expressed magnetic field system.
 

On the other hand, I am in no way backing up the poor explanations of physical phenomena made by contemporary science, especially not magnetism which I still regard as a white spot on the map of knowledge, but I recommend detachment from any theory until novel implementation based upon the theory is realized.
 

This especially accounts for the probability of any alternative outlook on physical reality. So many different and complex theories challenging orthodox science are available today.
 
My advice in regard to theories like this is to be open minded but detached.
Stay a bit aloft, and respond neutrally like the Zen buddist saying: Is that so?
 

Save your passion for the moments of self induced realization of physical implementation, attained in your own garage.
That's the only place where you can differ the "wheat from the chaff".
 

Gwandau
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TechStuf on February 03, 2013, 09:31:24 AM
Quote
The reason why these two bell shaped magnets give the same surrounding field appearence as one single natural magnet is due to their opposite poles being "hidden" inside the interior of the bell.

Having worked hands on with PM shapes too numerous to fully recount, I can say that the opposing poles are certainly not 'hidden'.  That is unless one mistakenly assumes that flux quanta resonate at visible spectrum wavelengths and is only observing from the convex side... ;)   No, flux lines are better programmed than that.  There are several ways to imitate the common dipole with open architecture, which fact in itself lets us glimpse deeper into their workings. 

To those who may be tempted to reject novel observations based on preconception, I would say: Don't resist wrestling with the deeper aspects, preferring instead to judge the book by it's dewy decimal reference number. 

You'll be glad you did!



Ts
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: MileHigh on February 03, 2013, 03:57:49 PM
I looked at the first 30 minutes of the first clip.  It a nutshell the clip is nonsense.  What has puzzled me for clips like this is what is the motivation for making them?  Who is making them and why are they making them?  They appear to be professionally done so someone is paying for them.

Perhaps they were done for all of the cable channels out there that cater to this stuff?  If so, then it's possible that this is just an exercise in investing and hoping for a profit when you try to sell your product to the TV networks at the annual trade shows for television content.  The fact that the material is complete nonsense is irrelevant, it's just another way to make money.

Another possibility is a really wealthy guy is on a "quest" and he really believes this stuff and he pays to have his ideas turned into a very slick professional set of movies to stroke his own ego.

He shows a "north" bowl and a "south" bowl and seemed to be indicating that they are monopoles.  As Gwandau pointed out several times there is no such thing as an all-north or all-south magnet.

In fact, there is no such thing as "north" and "south" parts of a magnetic field.  Those are terms created by scientists to just make it easier to discuss magnets in general.  Some people believe that there is a difference between "north" and "south" when there is none.  Again, "north" and "south" don't even really exist in magnetism.  The narrator in the clip makes a big deal about distinguishing north and south and has his differently coloured bowls.  So my assumption is that the author of this clip does not understand the basics of magnetism.  So the clip ends up being delusions built on top of a big delusion.

I hate these clips because they are "dumbing down" forces.  It's a common theme in science fiction where whole societies are built around artificial constructs that are false and the population is unaware because the false artificial constructs have been around for generations.  That's what this clip ultimately does, it hurts people by feeding them a pack of nonsense and lies.  Assuming that somebody is making money from this clip. they don't care that they are dumbing you down.  All that they want is the money.  Or perhaps like I said it's a rich dummy stroking his ego trying to spread his "dumminess" around to the general population with the false notion in his head that he is "enlightening" people.

This reminds me of the Bedini followers that believe that there is a Bloch wall in the center of a standard bar magnet and that divides the magnet into "north" and "south" halves.  There is no Bloch wall in a bar magnet and there are no "north" and "south" halves.  Likewise Bedini talks about mysterious energy from the vacuum corkscrewing it's way into the bar magnet (or coil) at the non-existent Bloch walls.

It's so bad that Bedini and his followers even talk about a "Bloch wall" at the center of an air coil.  That's completely ridiculous.

I know my comments will be upsetting to some, but you have to see this series of clips for what they really are.

MileHigh
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: poynt99 on February 03, 2013, 06:49:44 PM
The first red flag for me was: "This will change the world".

The fellow seems delusional.
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: Qwert on February 03, 2013, 08:33:16 PM
The colors of the domes on the video are somewhat misleading: they should be painted two colors, just like regular magnet; the inside of the dome should have different color from outside.

It could be from this concept:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyvfDzRLsiU
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: gravityblock on February 03, 2013, 10:04:57 PM
PF 3 will be released on February 7.

Gravock
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: gravityblock on February 03, 2013, 11:29:04 PM
A magnetic dipole are not two particles (North/South), but are more one entity.  Below is an interesting comic posted by Broli in another thread (http://www.overunity.com/6843/the-author-of-confusion-northsouth-poles-and-polarity/msg159374/#msg159374) in a topic on magnetic fields.  I modified his original comic by adding an image to box #6. 

According to David LaPointe, "the bowls emit a magnetic field that controls the plasma. The electricity does not make the fields, nor cause the formations therein. The formations are there all along with or without electricity".

Gravock
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: vrand on February 04, 2013, 01:02:16 AM
PF 3 will be released on February 7.

Gravock


Thank you for the update, looking forward to seeing it and eventually the free energy device based on this technology!
Cheers
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: MileHigh on February 04, 2013, 01:13:04 AM
Gravityblock:

Based on what I observed in the first clip, it looks like each half-hemisphere (I'll call them bowls) is just a magnet with a funny shape.

It looks to me like he took the two bowls and put them in a magnetizer.  Let's assume that you have a magnetizer that has a horizontal surface that you can place the bowls on.  Let's assume that the magnetizer generates a very strong magnetic field in the vertical direction.

You put the first bowl in the magnetizer and push the button.  The result is a bowl with the top half the north side and the bottom half the south side.   Then you put the second bowl in the magnetizer, but this time the bowl is upside-down.  You push the button and this time you get a bowl with the top half the south side and the bottom half the north side.

So if you were following his colour scheme convention, the reality is that one bowl is top-red bottom-blue and the other bowl is top-blue bottom-red.

When you magnetize the bowls the resultant magnetic lines of flux inside the bowl material will tend to follow the curvature of the shape of the bowl.  This is because during the magnetizing process the magnetic lines of flux will tend to follow the path with the highest permeability.

So the author of the clip is playing with strangely shaped magnets inside a partial vacuum where two high-voltage electrodes are generating plasma.

MileHigh
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: gravityblock on February 04, 2013, 07:21:13 AM
I looked at the first 30 minutes of the first clip.  It a nutshell the clip is nonsense.  What has puzzled me for clips like this is what is the motivation for making them?  Who is making them and why are they making them?  They appear to be professionally done so someone is paying for them.

Perhaps they were done for all of the cable channels out there that cater to this stuff?  If so, then it's possible that this is just an exercise in investing and hoping for a profit when you try to sell your product to the TV networks at the annual trade shows for television content.  The fact that the material is complete nonsense is irrelevant, it's just another way to make money.

Another possibility is a really wealthy guy is on a "quest" and he really believes this stuff and he pays to have his ideas turned into a very slick professional set of movies to stroke his own ego.

He shows a "north" bowl and a "south" bowl and seemed to be indicating that they are monopoles.  As Gwandau pointed out several times there is no such thing as an all-north or all-south magnet.

In fact, there is no such thing as "north" and "south" parts of a magnetic field.  Those are terms created by scientists to just make it easier to discuss magnets in general.  Some people believe that there is a difference between "north" and "south" when there is none.  Again, "north" and "south" don't even really exist in magnetism.  The narrator in the clip makes a big deal about distinguishing north and south and has his differently coloured bowls.  So my assumption is that the author of this clip does not understand the basics of magnetism.  So the clip ends up being delusions built on top of a big delusion.

I hate these clips because they are "dumbing down" forces.  It's a common theme in science fiction where whole societies are built around artificial constructs that are false and the population is unaware because the false artificial constructs have been around for generations.  That's what this clip ultimately does, it hurts people by feeding them a pack of nonsense and lies.  Assuming that somebody is making money from this clip. they don't care that they are dumbing you down.  All that they want is the money.  Or perhaps like I said it's a rich dummy stroking his ego trying to spread his "dumminess" around to the general population with the false notion in his head that he is "enlightening" people.

This reminds me of the Bedini followers that believe that there is a Bloch wall in the center of a standard bar magnet and that divides the magnet into "north" and "south" halves.  There is no Bloch wall in a bar magnet and there are no "north" and "south" halves.  Likewise Bedini talks about mysterious energy from the vacuum corkscrewing it's way into the bar magnet (or coil) at the non-existent Bloch walls.

It's so bad that Bedini and his followers even talk about a "Bloch wall" at the center of an air coil.  That's completely ridiculous.

I know my comments will be upsetting to some, but you have to see this series of clips for what they really are.

MileHigh

According to David Lapointe, the bowls are not magnetic monopoles.  He has a page showing the parts being casted (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.327663317342702.71035.327616574014043&type=1) for this technology.  On that page, he writes, "No you can see from how they interact that they are not monopoles. They are of opposite orientation. They each have a N/S to them but it is reversed. Completed info coming in the video and paper".  He's more than likely using an array of magnets as found in his other patents.  He also says this machine is not for energy, but will blow your mind when you find out what it will do.

Gravock
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: gravityblock on February 04, 2013, 08:02:02 AM
@HH and everyone else having watched these two videos,
 
I have to agree they are mesmerizing productions, excellently presented.
 
But no matter how much I want to buy their concept, I fail to understand the logic of using magnets that expresses such an excentric and unnatural magnetic geometry.

The two magnets used in the experiments are shaped into forms that twarts the normally expressed shape of a magnetic field. One of the poles has been given an exterior domination, resulting in a expression of field geometry that gives rise to inteference patterns inside the bell shape, reffered to as "Flip Ring, "Choke Ring" and "Confinement Dome".
 
The fact that these strange interference patterns show similarites to the patterns found in depicted nebulas does not carry enough momentum to survive proper scientific scrutiny as long as the magnetic geometry created is deviating distinctly from naturally created magnetic field geometries. In order to resemble the same field geometry as in the experiment, it seems reasonable that the nebula has to be subjected to the same surrounding bell shaped magnet, which just is not there.
 
Still it is an interesting video and the magnetic field observations made by the Primer Field guys would have been interesting enough without all the many unfounded preconceptions so frivoly deducted from their experiments.
 
But it all comes back to the contorted magnetic field of theirs. They never mention in their videos the reason for using these twisted magnets in relation to natural magnetic phenomena, and that leaves a big question mark.
 

Gwandau

It's to form a concentration of energy (COE) having a focal point.  The fields are around each particle or COE and each COE has a focal point or singularity.  We should look at the particles as being a concentration of energy. The fields keep the focal points apart and yet hold them together at the same time. So in the air around you is an interlinked matrix of these fields. Sound vibrates the matrix and this vibration of the matrix is how sound is transferred. In space (vacuum) the distance between focal points is too great for the vibration to transfer to the next field so no sound. Nothing to vibrate.

Gravock
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: gravityblock on February 04, 2013, 08:29:57 AM
Quote from: David LaPointe
One side of the field won't make you a star. But when two opposite "sexes" get together they give birth to a star.  So simple and incredible. But sometimes a problem in the relationship between the two fields. Or something within the relationship of the field size and magnetic flux density gets too low to contain the amount of energy within the star they gave birth to. When this happens this perfect magnetic confinement breaks down and we have a supernova. I would not properly call it an explosion. I would call it a sudden release of confined energy.

Gravock
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TechStuf on February 04, 2013, 10:05:19 AM



And there it is....
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: MileHigh on February 04, 2013, 11:35:54 AM
Gravityblock:

Quoting you:

Quote
It's to form a concentration of energy (COE) having a focal point.  The fields are around each particle or COE and each COE has a focal point or singularity.  We should look at the particles as being a concentration of energy. The fields keep the focal points apart and yet hold them together at the same time. So in the air around you is an interlinked matrix of these fields. Sound vibrates the matrix and this vibration of the matrix is how sound is transferred. In space (vacuum) the distance between focal points is too great for the vibration to transfer to the next field so no sound. Nothing to vibrate.

Quite honestly, most of what you are saying above is not credible.

- The bowls may indeed concentrate magnetic flux at the narrow end.  There is no singularity and I have no idea why you would say that.  Perhaps that's what David LaPointe says?

- Focal points apart and together at the same time?  Is this coming from David LaPointe?  Perhaps you can draw a diagram and post it and explain it?

- There is no "interlinked matrix," that's fantasy talk.  If you disagree then please explain what you are saying in more detail.

- Sound "vibrates the matrix?"  One more time, this is just fantasy talk.  Sound is a pressure wave in the air that is 90 degrees out of phase with a velocity wave.  The medium is air molecules bumping into each other and not magnetic fields.  It's standard wave motion and it has nothing to do with magnetic fields.

I am not sure where you got these ideas but if you got them from David LaPointe's presentation it just shows how these types of slickly produced videos that are basically junk can be detrimental to people.

Quoting David LaPointe:

Quote
One side of the field won't make you a star. But when two opposite "sexes" get together they give birth to a star.  So simple and incredible. But sometimes a problem in the relationship between the two fields. Or something within the relationship of the field size and magnetic flux density gets too low to contain the amount of energy within the star they gave birth to. When this happens this perfect magnetic confinement breaks down and we have a supernova. I would not properly call it an explosion. I would call it a sudden release of confined energy

This is just nonsensical fantasy talk.  Do you really and truly think if you play with some bowl-shaped magnets you will produce a "star?"  Do you think that David can quantify some of his statements?

Do you really think he is talking about something real and concrete and measurable when he says, "something within the relationship of the field size and magnetic flux density gets too low to contain the amount of energy within the star they gave birth to?"  What relationship?  What field size?  What flux density?  How low is too low?  How much energy?  What star?  What birth?

Personally I don't think David LaPointe can respond to the questions above and give credible and coherent answers.

MileHigh
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: soda on February 04, 2013, 06:22:31 PM
On the Facebook page he refers to this as a "Prototype of powered structured ionic field emitter" Guess we'll have to wait to see what its actual function is. Also here is why I can't seem to find the patent applications online. Can't wait for the next video.

"Primer Fields Mary, my patent was just filed with expedited filing status in Sept 2012. It will not be visible to the public until late summer from what my patent attorney tells me. All my actions are timed around that event. I was really surprised to have the USPTO issue such a rapid response to my initial filing, but I did pay the USPTO an extra $2500 to get expedited treatment. Really glad I did now.
Friday at 12:19pm"
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TechStuf on February 04, 2013, 10:52:13 PM



May the force fields be with you, David.  Perhaps he and Keshe could....mesh.




TS
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: pauldude000 on February 05, 2013, 08:56:55 PM
Concerning the "how could we make this, this, and this, if we do not understand it" argument concerning magnetism.....


You can manipulate something once you know even the simplest basics of how something works, without even having to know what it is. Lodestones were used to make compasses long before anyone had come up with the notion of "magnetism". People used gravity as a tool long before Newton "discovered" it. Explosives were made in China long before Chemistry was a science. Though science has occasionally aided invention, it is not invention in itself. We can manipulate many things. Manipulation does not imply nor guarantee understanding.


That logical argument is false and always has been.
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: pauldude000 on February 05, 2013, 09:20:16 PM
I am still wondering just what in the poo what we call a "field" really is....


I have heard the various cop-outs... errr... models which tend to fall apart when closely examined. Asking six people to define it generally grants six different though SOMEWHAT similar answers.


Is it a "thing"? Is it a storage space for a "thing"? Is it a warpage of some-"thing"? Is it a warpage of a non-"thing"? Reminds me of the logic of space/time.


No-one can seemingly make up their mind and come up with even a half believable definition. We know it exists. We know it is real. We just don't really know what it even is.
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TechStuf on February 05, 2013, 10:46:08 PM
Quote
We know it exists. We know it is real. We just don't really know what it even is.

But do we even know what 'real' is?  Is reality an accident, a simulation, a daydream?

Many a scientist once 'knew' that a single human cell was a simple unit of protoplasmic goo that 'evolved' on it's own, via random, blind, mutation....yet look at it today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJyUtbn0O5Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJyUtbn0O5Y)

How real is that....Molecules!  Molecules acting with amazingly complex, intelligent purpose! What guides them to act so harmoniously, each working for the benefit of all, if not Intelligence of High Order?  Each of your trillions of cells is a veritable city. A harmonious, vibrant, Advanced, city.  Complete with self assembling and disassembling highways.  Bipedal molecular 'creatures' walking about on those roads.  Timely trash collectors, gears, cogs, chain drives, sprockets, skyscrapers..... in a word: Wow!

And the Bacterial Flagellar Motor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-j5kKSk_6U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-j5kKSk_6U)   

You heard that right....8 million of these amazingly complex electric motors would fit in the cross section of a human hair!  Each is complete with Stator, Rotor, Magnets, Bushings, Drive Shaft, Universal Joint, Sensors, Switches, and Propeller.  Oh, and they are self replicating.  Man is parsecs from pusillanimously duplicating this accomplishment, even in rudimentary form yet his 'brightest' minds largely attribute it to dumb, deaf and blind, mutation. 

When you get right down to it, whatever 'it' is....the smallest bits that man has been able to 'see' provide at least a handful of clues as to the Origin of our shared reality.  The infamous 'double slit experiment' (youtube) comes to mind.  The very 'rules' of reality seem to change when observed too closely.  (smacks of a kind of holo-deck security protocol?) Man has spent upwards of fifty thousand million dollars in a quest to find the 'God particle' alone!  Even as those particles have been within and without him all along, impressive enough in their macro structures to prove to the vast majority of the planet that I AM truly Is. 

They were much less trying to find the 'higgs boson' than trying to peek and see if we, all of us, and our reality, are 'real' or a simulation. 

Trying to put a pinprick in the veil.....to see what's behind the curtain.

But the signs, signposts, their post holes, the dirt under our feet, are everywhere....and it is written:

"For since the creation of the world, God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." - Romans 1:20



TS
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: HH on February 05, 2013, 11:49:02 PM
Concerning the "how could we make this, this, and this, if we do not understand it" argument concerning magnetism.....


You can manipulate something once you know even the simplest basics of how something works, without even having to know what it is. Lodestones were used to make compasses long before anyone had come up with the notion of "magnetism". People used gravity as a tool long before Newton "discovered" it. Explosives were made in China long before Chemistry was a science. Though science has occasionally aided invention, it is not invention in itself. We can manipulate many things. Manipulation does not imply nor guarantee understanding.


That logical argument is false and always has been.

Compare the power of black powder , invented in china , without knowledge of chemistry , with modern C4.
What may happen if we undestand magnetic field and use it a little better ?
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TechStuf on February 06, 2013, 12:37:14 AM
"What may happen if we undestand magnetic field and use it a little better ?"

That's what they said about the atom....and we got "shiva, destroyer of worlds", remember?  Much of Japan is at this moment, a macabre radioactive mess set to full color, HD, slow motion.

Given all that is rapidly occurring, an appropriate aphorism of my quotation of your question above, as long ago and continually asked by the PTB would be:

"What may happen if we understand the 'goyim' (cattle, masses) and use them a little better?"

Because let's face it, how much of a chance is a truly altruistic discoverer going to get in this day and age, of using such, "a little better"?

Things are actually playing out alot like an Outer Limits episode.  The "Afterlife" episode comes to mind....

http://www.hulu.com/watch/4496

Only the powers that be and those like them, are the ugly ones.

Christ once said,  "What they do to me, they will also do to you".  They rejected Him, slaughtered Him and look what it has brought.  They are now, at this moment, slaughtering His followers and those like them via various arcane, cowardly, and poisonous machinations and look at what it is bringing...

An intervention.  An irrevocable reckoning.


TS
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: HH on February 06, 2013, 07:50:31 PM
Unfortunetly , thats the world we are living in.
Everything is powered by greed and theres to many greedy morons having too much power.
I know what you are saying , but what I ment to say was " more efficient ".
All we can do is hope that we'll get some good stuff out of it , not another weapon of mass destruction.
English is not my native tongue , so please forgive me , if my posts are badly spelled and sound weerd  :)
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TechStuf on February 07, 2013, 12:00:53 AM
 
Doing pretty good HH, for english not being your native tongue.
 
Blessings,
 
TS
 
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: HH on February 07, 2013, 12:21:32 AM
Thank you TS.
"What may happen if we understand the 'goyim' (cattle, masses) and use them a little better?"
The answer is : our modern world .
With our brainwashing tv , illusion of freedom and illusion of education.
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TechStuf on February 07, 2013, 12:49:50 AM
That's a waxy ball of wax, that one....Because many of those here at Stefan's Overunity.com already know, and some quite thoroughly, where I Stand on that issue.  Let's just say, it certainly isn't simply one 'hell' of a coincidence that God's Word stated, with 100% accuracy, thousands of years ago, exactly who would be in power at this late hour.....and what their sentence would be.  Afterall, many are quickly learning, and not too late I might add, of the litany of facts as to just 'who' controls...

the U.S. military,

the U.S. government,

the U.S. Media,

and the U.S. education system.

And frankly, most of the planet.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=400_1236894881 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=400_1236894881)

The HEXagram, 666 seal of the fallen solomon is everywhere these days. 

http://freemasonrywatch.org/pics/temple.canada.jpg (http://freemasonrywatch.org/pics/temple.canada.jpg)

You see, the fatal flaw in the reasoning of those who believe that light and darkness are truly intertwined....is that their grey play area is easily undone.  And where does that leave them after God flicks the off switch to that black light bulb that guides their twisted path?

In the dark.

"Outer darkness" in fact.  "Where their weeping and gnashing of teeth will be."

Woe unto he that calls light, darkness, and darkness, light!

And woe unto they who walk in the gray, hiding their faces from dark and light, for not having seen what they Truly each mean, they've neither stomach nor backbone to fight.

"I would have you hot or cold, for if you be lukewarm, I will spew you from my mouth." - Jesus Christ


Blessings in Christ,



TS






http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/2hands/2hands1.htm (http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/2hands/2hands1.htm)  God has a purpose for all.  He is not wasteful.  Even those who work against Him, are put to good use by and for Him and His Grand purpose. 
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: HH on February 07, 2013, 12:56:24 AM
This is getting far off topic.
Lets get back here with some ideas or conclusions.
cheers
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: hoptoad on February 07, 2013, 03:58:13 AM
snip....

This is a science forum, and this thread is not a religious based thread, it is a science based thread !!.
Please post your religious pontifications elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: TechStuf on February 07, 2013, 06:54:28 AM


Quote
Please post your religious pontifications elsewhere.

Yes yes....this is a science forum.  A fractured, microcosmic mirror of an increasingly 'technical' society.  One where the art of changing the world while dodging the white elephant in the living room as it chases the naked emperor, the fat lady on it's back, her voice cracking from holding her crescendo so very long.....

Has long been status quo. 

My, uh, bad.

http://beforeitsnews.com/international/2013/02/beyonces-superbowl-illuminati-hand-sign-inspires-debate-sarcasm-huffpost-disinfo-2451726.html (http://beforeitsnews.com/international/2013/02/beyonces-superbowl-illuminati-hand-sign-inspires-debate-sarcasm-huffpost-disinfo-2451726.html)

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/02/super-bowl-fourth-quarter-satanic-message-to-the-masses-2557902.html (http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/02/super-bowl-fourth-quarter-satanic-message-to-the-masses-2557902.html)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UikA3tWu2VA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UikA3tWu2VA)

http://earthsky.org/space/big-sun-diving-comet-ison-might-be-spectacular-in-2013 (http://earthsky.org/space/big-sun-diving-comet-ison-might-be-spectacular-in-2013)

Religion, Science, ....One makes a 'science' of belief, the other a 'belief' of science.

Both are sides of the same 'buffalo' nickel.  And share it's monetary value's worth of difference.

Those who refuse to obtain the Wisdom, perspective, and courage by which to see the big picture, have allowed themselves to be framed.


Blessings in Christ,


TS




P.S. It's been real and it's been fun....
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: hoptoad on February 07, 2013, 11:32:15 AM
snip...

Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: antonio222 on February 09, 2013, 06:50:39 PM
The impact that this discovery will have on humanity is being completely overshadowed by David LaPoint's ego and greed.  If he is talking about the basic fundamental magnetic force, any patent on any device is worthless because there will be thousands of different ways to accomplish this same task. He is worried about proving his invention and nothing more.
I had previously searched for any patents from him only finding very little.

Yesterday, i found US 2008/0246361 A1 on google patents.

While huge holes are in this, it does a great job of showing and explaining that his bowls are merely separate neodymium magnets all oriented the same way, all North for one and all South for the other.

I hope at this point people who care about this can start a discussion before we blow this planet up because in this patent it also uses the word fusion, with no other mention of high temperatures...
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: gravityblock on February 09, 2013, 10:10:12 PM
The impact that this discovery will have on humanity is being completely overshadowed by David LaPoint's ego and greed.  If he is talking about the basic fundamental magnetic force, any patent on any device is worthless because there will be thousands of different ways to accomplish this same task. He is worried about proving his invention and nothing more.
I had previously searched for any patents from him only finding very little.

Yesterday, i found US 2008/0246361 A1 on google patents.

While huge holes are in this, it does a great job of showing and explaining that his bowls are merely separate neodymium magnets all oriented the same way, all North for one and all South for the other.  I hope at this point people who care about this can start a discussion before we blow this planet up because in this patent it also uses the word fusion, with no other mention of high temperatures...

No mention of high temperatures because it's presumably LENR (low energy nuclear reactions) or also known as cold fusion.  His discovery is already proven if what he says his correct about his technology being currently used in 12 countries, so I don't think he his worried about proving his invention and nothing more.  In addition to this, he wouldn't take the time to make high quality videos explaining his discovery if he had an ego and greed issue. 

His patent being invalid because he's using basic fundamental magnetic forces is also nonsense.  The inversion and orientation of the two hemispheres is unique and would need to be changed by more than 50% in order to invalidate his patents.  Changing the process or patent by more than 50% would more than likely render it useless.  IMO, I think you're trolling.

Gravock
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: gravityblock on February 09, 2013, 10:18:05 PM
PF 3 is scheduled to be released today (I hope).  The date was pushed back from the 7th due to last minute additions.

Gravock
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: antonio222 on February 09, 2013, 10:55:17 PM
Why is it just as LaPoint did, there is some justification of patenting when I pose an issue of properly informing people of this discovery and its full impact?
Do I need to list the overwhelming mistakes that humanity has made because a concept was not properly managed?
I fully support what he is theorizing.  I don't support his attempt to limit information because he is trying to profit.
He admits himself he doesn't fully understand it.  He is focused on only the validity he can explain to market his device, energy and/or health related.
Basic principles of existence are being withheld not for safety and educational purposes, but so no one else can take his idea.
If understanding, education and safety were his number one priority, which should be the motives, limiting the knowledge he has should not be occurring.
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: gravityblock on February 10, 2013, 09:29:47 AM
PF 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpI6ikj1G-s) has been released.

Gravock
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: gravityblock on February 10, 2013, 02:23:50 PM
Quote from: David LaPoint
Next up in The Primer Fields Part 4, Proof of the Primer Fields at the molecular, atomic, and sub-atomic levels. I hope to have PF 4 available by February 20.

Gravock
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: Dansway on February 10, 2013, 06:34:03 PM
Do any of you remember Larry Spring?

www.larryspring.com

Very similar.
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: hoptoad on February 11, 2013, 09:59:01 AM
If looks similar looks mean anything, then this snippet from nasa belongs here.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/GLAST/news/new-structure.html (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/GLAST/news/new-structure.html)
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: gravityblock on February 12, 2013, 08:51:20 PM
If looks similar looks mean anything, then this snippet from nasa belongs here.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/GLAST/news/new-structure.html (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/GLAST/news/new-structure.html)

This image of the Holy Grail is being over-shadowed from above ("as above, so below").

Gravock
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: gravityblock on February 14, 2013, 03:56:27 PM
Here's an image I haven't seen posted yet in regards to the Primer Fields.

Gravock

Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: gravityblock on February 14, 2013, 06:02:18 PM
@HH and everyone else having watched these two videos,
 
I have to agree they are mesmerizing productions, excellently presented.
 
But no matter how much I want to buy their concept, I fail to understand the logic of using magnets that expresses such an excentric and unnatural magnetic geometry.

The two magnets used in the experiments are shaped into forms that twarts the normally expressed shape of a magnetic field. One of the poles has been given an exterior domination, resulting in a expression of field geometry that gives rise to inteference patterns inside the bell shape, reffered to as "Flip Ring, "Choke Ring" and "Confinement Dome".
 
The fact that these strange interference patterns show similarites to the patterns found in depicted nebulas does not carry enough momentum to survive proper scientific scrutiny as long as the magnetic geometry created is deviating distinctly from naturally created magnetic field geometries. In order to resemble the same field geometry as in the experiment, it seems reasonable that the nebula has to be subjected to the same surrounding bell shaped magnet, which just is not there.
 

Still it is an interesting video and the magnetic field observations made by the Primer Field guys would have been interesting enough without all the many unfounded preconceptions so frivoly deducted from their experiments.
 
But it all comes back to the contorted magnetic field of theirs. They never mention in their videos the reason for using these twisted magnets in relation to natural magnetic phenomena, and that leaves a big question mark.
 

Gwandau

The bell shaped magnets do represent naturally created magnetic field geometries.  Fullerenes (https://www.google.com/search?q=fullerenes+in+space&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Ew8dUdK8A4L7qAGVzYG4AQ&ved=0CFQQsAQ&biw=989&bih=513) (buckyballs) are found in space (http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38365987/ns/technology_and_science-space/#.UR0Rc5GYO14).  The buckyballs are spherical, however they could grow or fracture into buckybowls (bowl shaped molecules (http://www.ias.ac.in/resonance/Nov1998/pdf/Nov1998p82-86.pdf)), such as the corannulene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corannulene). 

Please note, the buckyballs/buckybowls have wave-particle duality properties, such as light.  Bowl shaped molecules can undergo an interesting dynamic process known as inversion (image shown below). The bowl to bowl inversion is very fast in corannulene. It has been estimated that it inverts about 2 ×105 times a second.  IMO, the Primer Fields do represent naturally created magnetic field geometries.

Gravock
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: thesingularityeffect on February 19, 2014, 07:35:44 AM
A magnetic dipole are not two particles (North/South), but are more one entity.  Below is an interesting comic posted by Broli in another thread (http://www.overunity.com/6843/the-author-of-confusion-northsouth-poles-and-polarity/msg159374/#msg159374) in a topic on magnetic fields.  I modified his original comic by adding an image to box #6. 

According to David LaPointe, "the bowls emit a magnetic field that controls the plasma. The electricity does not make the fields, nor cause the formations therein. The formations are there all along with or without electricity".

Gravock
The way it works in star and matter formation is closer to the "electric" example on the left. If you were to consider the yellow and the blue dots as representative of where the confinement domes are, and you imagine that this is occurring in vacuum, in space, and in a "fluid like" environment, you would see how the energy completes the circuit, (the opposing dome) and creates the area for the structure to form within the fields created. (See between the two how the fields are like an oval? Compress it slightly, build it up, and your structure forms there.
The structure, (plasma ball) is described as being comprised of little balls of like energy, but David kind of screwed up here. As he was describing what the energy particles, confinement dome, flip points all looked and acted like, he was using an "imagery" that was meant to help isolate these points of energy into a "single point of reference." But he forgot the particles visualize well as single balls of energy/matter, but they actually move in containment like Birckland currents. Picture a spinning ball of string.
He also doesn't adequately describe how the energy really can't hold a single point of reference. It's one of the real problems science has with wave particle duality, and why they can't understand how come their observations interfere.
(All you have to do is picture something where each piece is the same as the whole. lol)
Anyway.
Hopefully there are still people hanging around this topic. I haven't gone on to read yet whether or not you all have convinced yourselves it's B.S. or not. (By the way, it's not.)
You all want the patent??? Here: http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2013106104&recNum=129&docAn=US2012058805&queryString=nano%20OR%20filter%20OR%20ceramic&maxRec=581529
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: tomd on August 25, 2019, 10:57:31 PM
David LaPoint is back with - as he puts it - a revolution in healthcare
, and he has open sourced the device - the primercube.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mEXRBKgVidA&feature=share (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mEXRBKgVidA&feature=share)
primercube.org (http://primercube.org)
Title: Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
Post by: norman6538 on August 28, 2019, 02:08:09 AM
Check out my work on stacked magnets here
https://overunity.com/18288/power-from-repelling-magnets/msg537211/#msg537211
The first rough measurement gave 400% out.
I expect a better measurement in a day or two.

And my pendulum that travels 2 extra hrs with magnets, metal, and gravity
shows the spin in magnets because it fails when the polarity is reversed.

Norman