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Author Topic: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism  (Read 71628 times)

Offline Liberty

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Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2013, 07:31:15 AM »

Hi Liberty,
I think TK was trying to imply that when a soleniod coil is powered, it is like a bar magnet that produces its north and south poles.


@Tinselkoala,
Thanks for some info. Im not like you guys Guru's of science  ;)

Yes, but I was hoping that he would take a stab at answering the question anyway...  Wondering if science has an answer to how a magnet really works, and if so, why a magnet doesn't deplete it's energy source and continues to emit a magnetic field. 

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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2013, 08:11:22 AM »
Independent verification of the Davis model by Howard Johnson.

No, it's not.
You may also recall that Johnson's "motors" don't work.... unless your name is Mylow.

@crazy:
The north and south "poles" of a bar magnet arise from the same cause as the poles of a solenoid: charge in motion. In the case of the bar magnet the charges that are in motion are the unpaired electrons in certain orbitals of certain atoms, like iron. The electrons in their orbitals possess spin angular momentum. In bulk material that is unmagnetised the electron spins of many atoms are unaligned, but they can become aligned by various processes. The alignment comes from applying an external field of sufficient strength, or even mechanical vibration in the presence of a weaker field. But the field itself ultimately arises from the electron spins and orbital motions. The field lines of these tiny electron magnets go around the orbital motion in closed loops, just like the field of a wire only much smaller and weaker. In the case of the DC solenoid coil, we provide voltage which moves charge through the wire, but once the field is established, no power is lost to the field; the current flows and power is dissipated by the resistance of the wire according to Ohm's law. The steady field itself dissipates no power.

Thinking of "poles" of a bar magnet is verbally misleading. Think of a garden hose. It has two "poles" just like a bar magnet: water goes in one end and comes out the other (and ultimately loops through the external hydrologic cycle and makes it back to the beginning). What happens when you cut a garden hose in half? Do you now have a couple of "one ended" hoses?

If anyone tells you that they can explain how and why electrons orbit nuclei "perpetually", or why moving charge is always accompanied by a magnetic field..... don't believe them. The question is on the order of "why is there something, rather than nothing".  Why are energy levels quantized? Why is there air? What do women really want?

Please try to remember that "conventional" science understands magnetism and magnetic fields fairly well....well enough to work relative miracles of engineering with them, like loudspeakers, CRT displays, electric motors of all kinds (and very high efficiencies) and much much more. This fact alone is enough to refute speculative models like those of Davis and Johnson. If their models were true, all kinds of things we take for granted would not work, or would have to be designed very differently, and airliners and ships at sea would be getting lost all the time.

There are deep mysteries to be sure, like "why" does the electron keep spinning.... but once you can understand that the magnetic field itself doesn't take any energy to maintain, then it's a bit easier.  Again, consider the DC solenoid coil. Apply some voltage.... and some energy goes into setting up the field, so the current doesn't just appear instantly at its full value, it takes a bit of time to increase. This is because setting up the field is costly. Once the field is established it doesn't take any more energy to maintain and the current flows unimpeded. When the circuit is interrupted, the energy used to set up the field is returned as the current continues to try to flow in the same direction, making things like contact arcs or big spikes of voltage. Since we weren't around when the electrons started spinning, and we won't be around when they stop..... we don't get to see the energy required to set up the little fields of each spinning electron. We only see the energy needed to knock a bunch of little fields into alignment so that the bulk material has a big enough coherent field to be detected outside.

Now for the Zen: It's all one thing. Charge, motion, field: one thing. One. Motion is relative to a reference frame, one frame's magnetic field is another frame's electric field, charge is conserved.

Offline TechStuf

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Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2013, 11:13:37 AM »
Quote
No, it's not. You may also recall that Johnson's "motors" don't work.... unless your name is Mylow.


As we now have at minimum, 3 independent researchers who observed the same model, perhaps there is more than meets one's simple eye. 

It shouldn't take any serious researcher long with a bit of hand's on, to prove the archaic field model inadequate.  Man exploits quite well a host of physical realities without understanding really much at all about them.  One man's verification is another's wild supposition and history has proven that the twain really only meet briefly as one supplants the other.



TS



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2013, 11:13:37 AM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2013, 01:12:44 PM »
Any one have any luck finding these patents? It'd be great to understand how the bowl field emitters are magnetized.

I haven't had any luck finding those patents, however, here's another device patented by David LaPoint which may be helpful.  According to this patent, the bowl field emitters are more than likely magnetic arrays (halbach arrays), where one pole is internal and the opposite pole is external.  The bowls also use Macor, which is a machineable glass-ceramic developed and sold by Corning Inc. It is a white material that looks somewhat like porcelain. Macor has excellent thermal characteristics, acting as efficient insulation, and stable up to temperatures of 1000 °C, with very little thermal expansion or outgassing.  It is often used in high-temperature and/or high-vacuum environments, where dimensional stability and low outgassing are critical.   

Gravock

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2013, 01:58:42 PM »

As we now have at minimum, 3 independent researchers who observed the same model, perhaps there is more than meets one's simple eye. 

It shouldn't take any serious researcher long with a bit of hand's on, to prove the archaic field model inadequate.  Man exploits quite well a host of physical realities without understanding really much at all about them.  One man's verification is another's wild supposition and history has proven that the twain really only meet briefly as one supplants the other.



TS
Show me one device that is designed _and working_ according to these models of which you speak, that cannot be explained better by the "archaic" field model  that is used every day to make motors, to levitate bullet trains, to guide electron and ion beams to make the very chips your computer uses.....
you cannot.
Explain why an ordinary compass needle , taken to the equator, does not dip toward the center of the planet like Davis's imaginary model shows.
That explanation I'd really like to see.
Show me a mathematical derivation of these models of which you speak, that is also consistent with QED, the most precise and accurate theory of physics that humans have come up with yet. Show me a single violation of the relationships described by Maxwell's equations. You cannot.

The physics .... the real physics.... of the world around you refutes these imaginations of people like Davis, who apparently never used a magnetic compass at sea, and Howard Johnson, who spent his life chasing a futile dream and made lots of simple...Not Overunity.... toys, but never made anything that worked as he dreamed.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2013, 01:58:42 PM »
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Offline crazycut06

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Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2013, 02:38:15 PM »
No, it's not.
You may also recall that Johnson's "motors" don't work.... unless your name is Mylow.

@crazy:
The north and south "poles" of a bar magnet arise from the same cause as the poles of a solenoid: charge in motion. In the case of the bar magnet the charges that are in motion are the unpaired electrons in certain orbitals of certain atoms, like iron. The electrons in their orbitals possess spin angular momentum. In bulk material that is unmagnetised the electron spins of many atoms are unaligned, but they can become aligned by various processes. The alignment comes from applying an external field of sufficient strength, or even mechanical vibration in the presence of a weaker field. But the field itself ultimately arises from the electron spins and orbital motions. The field lines of these tiny electron magnets go around the orbital motion in closed loops, just like the field of a wire only much smaller and weaker. In the case of the DC solenoid coil, we provide voltage which moves charge through the wire, but once the field is established, no power is lost to the field; the current flows and power is dissipated by the resistance of the wire according to Ohm's law. The steady field itself dissipates no power.

Thinking of "poles" of a bar magnet is verbally misleading. Think of a garden hose. It has two "poles" just like a bar magnet: water goes in one end and comes out the other (and ultimately loops through the external hydrologic cycle and makes it back to the beginning). What happens when you cut a garden hose in half? Do you now have a couple of "one ended" hoses?

If anyone tells you that they can explain how and why electrons orbit nuclei "perpetually", or why moving charge is always accompanied by a magnetic field..... don't believe them. The question is on the order of "why is there something, rather than nothing".  Why are energy levels quantized? Why is there air? What do women really want?

Please try to remember that "conventional" science understands magnetism and magnetic fields fairly well....well enough to work relative miracles of engineering with them, like loudspeakers, CRT displays, electric motors of all kinds (and very high efficiencies) and much much more. This fact alone is enough to refute speculative models like those of Davis and Johnson. If their models were true, all kinds of things we take for granted would not work, or would have to be designed very differently, and airliners and ships at sea would be getting lost all the time.

There are deep mysteries to be sure, like "why" does the electron keep spinning.... but once you can understand that the magnetic field itself doesn't take any energy to maintain, then it's a bit easier.  Again, consider the DC solenoid coil. Apply some voltage.... and some energy goes into setting up the field, so the current doesn't just appear instantly at its full value, it takes a bit of time to increase. This is because setting up the field is costly. Once the field is established it doesn't take any more energy to maintain and the current flows unimpeded. When the circuit is interrupted, the energy used to set up the field is returned as the current continues to try to flow in the same direction, making things like contact arcs or big spikes of voltage. Since we weren't around when the electrons started spinning, and we won't be around when they stop..... we don't get to see the energy required to set up the little fields of each spinning electron. We only see the energy needed to knock a bunch of little fields into alignment so that the bulk material has a big enough coherent field to be detected outside.

Now for the Zen: It's all one thing. Charge, motion, field: one thing. One. Motion is relative to a reference frame, one frame's magnetic field is another frame's electric field, charge is conserved.
Wow! Your like a physics teacher to me now,  ;D  very much appreciated, thank's
Regards cc

Dave45

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Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2013, 03:16:21 PM »
Outstanding vid


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2013, 03:16:21 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline gravityblock

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Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2013, 05:01:12 PM »
Show me one device that is designed _and working_ according to these models of which you speak, that cannot be explained better by the "archaic" field model  that is used every day to make motors, to levitate bullet trains, to guide electron and ion beams to make the very chips your computer uses.....
you cannot.
Explain why an ordinary compass needle , taken to the equator, does not dip toward the center of the planet like Davis's imaginary model shows.
That explanation I'd really like to see.
Show me a mathematical derivation of these models of which you speak, that is also consistent with QED, the most precise and accurate theory of physics that humans have come up with yet. Show me a single violation of the relationships described by Maxwell's equations. You cannot.

The physics .... the real physics.... of the world around you refutes these imaginations of people like Davis, who apparently never used a magnetic compass at sea, and Howard Johnson, who spent his life chasing a futile dream and made lots of simple...Not Overunity.... toys, but never made anything that worked as he dreamed.

How do you explain this macroscopic version of a quantum effect by using conventional field models where the electron must revolve twice to turn itself around once? Hence the so-called spin 1/2.  Please note the difference in how the magnet indicator lines up at the starting position and at 1800 from the starting position.  In addition to this, how do you explain the vortex flowing around a stationary magnet in this video titled, "Magnetic Vortex Spin Discovery".  Please note, there is no vortex when substituting the magnet with a stationary iron slug, so this highly suggests the magnetic field is responsible for the vortex.  The image below is a snapshot of the Oliver Crane and RQM view of the magnetic field along with the conventional view.

Gravock

Offline vrand

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Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2013, 07:20:28 PM »
In this video series the currently accepted theories of physics and astrophysics are shaken to the core by a radical new theory of the fundamental forces in all matter.

You will be amazed as a magnetic model of the dome at CERN is used to create a 100 mm diameter plasma Sun with a 300 mm diameter equatorial disc of plasma around it!

All the plasma videos are actual footage with no enhancement or manipulation other than speed. In other words, this is real thing. Hard to believe, but it is all true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EPlyiW-xGI


Interesting HV Plasma experiments and theories, thank you for the Youtube link. Looking forward to the "free energy" device based on this theory this summer.
Cheers

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2013, 07:20:28 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2013, 08:23:35 PM »
@gravock: If you are challenging conventional views it is up to you to explain how your preferred model is better, makes better predictions of known behaviour and predicts new behaviour that the old model does not, and is confirmed by experiment.

How do YOU explain MRI imagers, ion beam lithography, CRTs, electric motors of all kinds, magnetic compasses, magnetising jigs, bubble chambers, auroras,  using any of the "new" models? The behaviour of these systems and many many more are fully explained using the "ordinary" or "archaic" field model. The "archaic" model makes quite accurate mathematical predictions of very complex behaviour and is used all the time by people who actually make new things that work, in contrast to , eg, Howard Johnson.  Why does the compass needle not show the pattern described by Crane, but rather the conventional pattern? Ditto iron filings or other ways of mapping field lines.... all show results that are consistent with Faraday and inconsistent with Crane or Davis or HoJo.

Until someone can use some new model to fully explain all these things which have been engineered by understanding the "archaic" model, and in addition show how the new model predicts behaviour that the old model does not and these predictions are confirmed by experiment.... the "archaic" model is the proper one to use and to believe in.

It is all one, remember, and motion is relative. Currents in fluid media like plasma or liquid electrolytes spiral around magnetic field lines. This is not news; what is shown in the second video you linked is neither surprising, unusual, or unexplained. I've reproduced it myself, wirelessly, in underwater electrolysis systems, and I've photographed spiraling plasmas in several settings. This behaviour is neither predicted nor explained by Davis or HoJo or any other models other than the standard Faraday-Gauss-Maxwell "archaic" model.

You do realise, I hope, that the two videos of the spiralling plasma, highspeed and regular, caused by the PM in the neon mug were shot by me, don't you?  And if you take a look at this picture of a discharge from my TinselKoil you can clearly see the spiralling of the plasma current.

Offline TechStuf

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Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2013, 11:35:09 PM »
Quote
Until someone can use some new model to fully explain all these things which have been engineered by understanding the "archaic" model, and in addition show how the new model predicts behaviour that the old model does not and these predictions are confirmed by experiment.... the "archaic" model is the proper one to use and to believe in.

Until...and until....

How about until one employs the empirical science skills of an 11 year old and simply places two ring magnets in opposition over a pencil.  Switch polarities and levitate one over the other again.  Voila!  They both levitate at the same height.  Of course with statements like these:

Quote
Why does the compass needle not show the pattern described by Crane, but rather the conventional pattern? Ditto iron filings or other ways of mapping field lines.... all show results that are consistent with Faraday and inconsistent with Crane or Davis or HoJo.

It is completely understandable how one could fail to grasp the significance of the rather elementary experiment I've outlined above.  But then it also seems obvious that you never bothered to watch the video at the beginning of this topic, or you would have seen a demonstration with your beholden compass needle proving that not all is as it appears as regards magnetic field dynamics.


TS

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2013, 11:35:09 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2013, 03:44:01 AM »
@gravock: If you are challenging conventional views it is up to you to explain how your preferred model is better, makes better predictions of known behaviour and predicts new behaviour that the old model does not, and is confirmed by experiment.

According to the authors of a publication titled, "Central Oscillator and Space-Quanta-Medium", their model does make better predictions of known behavior and does predict new behavior that the old model does not, and has been confirmed by experiments.

How do YOU explain MRI imagers, ion beam lithography, CRTs, electric motors of all kinds, magnetic compasses, magnetising jigs, bubble chambers, auroras,  using any of the "new" models? The behaviour of these systems and many many more are fully explained using the "ordinary" or "archaic" field model. The "archaic" model makes quite accurate mathematical predictions of very complex behaviour and is used all the time by people who actually make new things that work, in contrast to , eg, Howard Johnson.  Why does the compass needle not show the pattern described by Crane, but rather the conventional pattern? Ditto iron filings or other ways of mapping field lines.... all show results that are consistent with Faraday and inconsistent with Crane or Davis or HoJo.

Iron filings do show concentric rings as shown by the Ditchev-Experiment, which is consistent and explainable with Crane's model and inconsistent and unexplainable in the 'archaic' field models which predicts a radial field pattern.  Below is a snapshot of page 206 in the above publication describing the Ditchev experiment.  This experiment was published in the International Glasnost Journal of Fundamental Physics in 1992, by Hristo Ditchev.  In addition to this, the main video of this thread also reveals how the steel balls form concentric rings supporting Crane's model.  IMO, this publication is a must read and is quite relevant to this thread.

Gravock

Offline vrand

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Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2013, 06:17:32 AM »
According to the authors of a publication titled, "Central Oscillator and Space-Quanta-Medium", their model does make better predictions of known behavior and does predict new behavior that the old model does not, and has been confirmed by experiments.

Iron filings do show concentric rings as shown by the Ditchev-Experiment, which is consistent and explainable with Crane's model and inconsistent and unexplainable in the 'archaic' field models which predicts a radial field pattern.  Below is a snapshot of page 206 in the above publication describing the Ditchev experiment.  This experiment was published in the International Glasnost Journal of Fundamental Physics in 1992, by Hristo Ditchev.  In addition to this, the main video of this thread also reveals how the steel balls form concentric rings supporting Crane's model.  IMO, this publication is a must read and is quite relevant to this thread.

Gravock


Exactly, it is the experiment that changes the models.  Each new experiment revels new information.  When a device is created that can tap the aether/ether, orgone energy, infinite energy, whatever one wants to call it, and creates more energy output > input to power our homes and cars then the "models" will change again.  :)


Cheers

Offline DreamThinkBuild

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Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2013, 02:09:33 AM »
Hi All,

Does anybody have a backup of the video?

It's already gone.

Offline wideyed_tutank

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Re: The Primer Fields - Breakthrough in our understanding of magnetism
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2013, 05:35:59 AM »
@DreamThinkBuild
Try again. It's still there.

 

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